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Tyler Clementi Suicide Case

Reminder for those of you following this case. Sentencing is scheduled for this Monday. I haven't clue where this is going.
 
I'm very upset over this. I didn't want to see him get several years. On the other hand both the judge and the prosecution spoke of the need for the sentence to send a message of deterrence to other cyber bullies who might get similar ideas. This sentence of 30 days in jail, 3 years of probation, 300 hours of community service and an $11,000 fine has been called less than a slap on the wrist by many commentators today. Ravi's family is filthy rich. $11,000 is nothing to them. The judge even said that it's possible his 3 years of probation could be commuted later to a shorter term. And the judge said that he would "recommend" to the feds that Ravi not be deported. The other victim in this, the man called M.B. said through his lawyer that as much as he resented Ravi for turning his life upside down, that he would not want to see Ravi deported.

I watched the full coverage on Court Tv network this morning. In the Clementi family's victim statements they all were very bitter towards Ravi. They said he never apologized for his actions and always played himself to be the victim. They said he and his defense team lied numerous times during the trial. On the part of the defense team they pointed to the fact that Ravi's lawyers tried several times in court to tell the jury that Ravi deactivated the camera himself on the failed second attempt at broadcasting Tyler having sex. They pointed out that their son Tyler was the one who disabled the camera. He wrote that to the school administrators in an email that his R.A. told him to write. Tyler deactivated the camera. Not Ravi. (Tyler even shared that in a post on the public JustUsBoys forum I believe.) Yet the judge did not allow the prosecution to admit the email into evidence for the jury. Mainly because Tyler, in the same email called Ravi's actions "wildly inappropriate". That was considered too prejudicial for the jury to hear.

I don't know what sentence I wanted to hear. I didn't want to hear 5-10 years in prison. I had already decided that Ravi was not a hardened criminal. But even so... He turned down a very generous plea deal. He wanted a trial. He got a trial. New Jersey taxpayers spent millions on a trial for him. He was convicted of all felony offenses. He was NOT found innocent. He was found guilty of all charges. They include destruction of evidence, tampering with evidence, tampering with a witness and lying to police.

I was afraid my that his sentence was going to be too harsh. Instead I'm upset because I feel it was far too lenient. The only substantive difference between the plea deal he turned down and the sentence he got today (after being found guilty of everything) was the 30 days in jail. The Clementi family looked crestfallen in the courtroom. Again where is the deterrence factor for others who try to do this in the future? If you cyberbully someone to the point of suicide knowing that it will result at most in 30 days in jail, probation and a fine...how many bullies out there are willing to take that chance? I bet you get less than that for some minor drug possession sentences.

One of the most interesting parts of the whole sentencing was when the defense said they would appeal the judge's sentence. Mostly because they objected to the sentence of the 30 days in jail. They of course would like to see him go home to his family with no punishment or probation at all. The defense asked for an acquittal or a new trial. The judge refused that. Although they are allowed to appeal his ruling on that.

So the defense had asked for a stay of his sentence so they could appeal. The judge said the prosecution had the right to object to that. He looked over at prosecuting attorney Judith McClure fully expecting that she would object to the defense's motion of a stay of the sentence until appeal. She has always been very professional and respectful of coutroom decorum at all times in the past. She stood up and said forcefully that the prosecution did not object to the defense motion because they themselves would definitely be appealing the verdict also. The judge was caught of guard by that. He said, Well since you are also requesting a stay and an appeal of the verdict then I have to grant it. She said quickly and with just a hint of anger, "Yes, you do." He said that his verdict had appeared to have upset both sides. The defense because he gave Ravi any jail time at all. And the prosecution because he gave no prison time at all.

Long story short, this case will drag out for many more months, if not longer.
 
tampa24 said:
Long story short, this case will drag out for many more months, if not longer.
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yes, for months!
but our future and the future of all children can not be left to the criminal court system. we have to learn have to treat each with respect. every institution and civil group should make respect a part of their core mission.
the churches, the school, the bridge clubs and the rotary club.
everywhere people do want they think they can get away with doing. doing without a care for others. have hope, love and faith gone out of style?
perhaps leaving the trees was a bad idea or maybe leaving the sea was the first wrong move.
in the months while we wait for this case to work its way through the system, the same or similar thing will happen in another place. this hate does not live in one town in new jersey. it lives in our neighborhood and our workplaces and sometimes in ourselves. hate and fear are strange bedfellows.
there is no time to wait for solutions, we must teach the child before they learn to fear and hate.
 
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I still feel the same way about this case. The bias statues should not have been used here. In other words, it was over-prosecuted. What Ravi did is usually considered a misdemeanor. If I remember correctly, there was only one count, outside the bias statues, that carried prison time. And, yes, I think he was guilty of all of what he was accused of, excepting the bias charges.

It appears that both sides are appealing the case. And so the case continues. As for sending a message, if one has been following the case, one might think twice about repeating such actions.
 
I feel the sentence legally fit the crime, but I, emotionally, wanted to see him in jail for at least a year. I just hope that someone, anyone, who may have been on "a fence" about doing something like this, has learned from this. I still don't understand, and I never will, why we choose to hurt each other; it is such a waste.
 
tim114 said:
As for sending a message, if one has been following the case, one might think twice about repeating such actions.
Click to expand...

Well Tim, that's the thing I have trouble with here. You think that the verdict and the trial itself sends enough of a message of deterrence, while I do not. I felt myself feeling less and less sympathy for Ravi yesterday as I saw him in court live, or at least recorded live on DVR. While the judge talked to him about the severity of the crimes and the Clementi family talked in tear jerking terms about the loss of their son and how totally trapped and humiliated he must have felt in order to take his own life...Ravi showed no reaction of regret or remorse...nor did he shed a single tear.

I feel that 3-6 months of prison would have been more appropriate. The fine of $11,000 is not punitive to Ravi because his dad can write a check for that full amount. Ravi won't have to work to pay a dime of it. So then you have the 30 days in jail, 300 hours of community service and probation. While I myself would never want to spend even one day in jail I can imagine that a healthy 20 y/o with significant family support could get through it quickly.

Like it or not this case will be a gold standard that sets legal precedent for many succeeding cases nationwide. Possibly for many years to come. It will be referred to by defense attorneys for all manner of future cyber-bullying crimes. Is it fair to Ravi that this seminal test case requires a more severe sentence for the sake of future justice for future victims? No. But who said life was fair? I'm not saying he should be given justice with a vengeance. Merely that 30 days is far too little. Even though more than a year is far too much. I think 3-6 months would be reasonable. I believe it would send the right message of deterrence for future cyber criminals who want to do worse than Ravi.

Mrs. Clementi talked about how the first day they arrived on campus to get Tyler moved into his dorm that Ravi refused to say a single word of greeting even leave his computer to introduce himself to Tyler. Ravi's parents were in the tiny room also. Mrs. Clemnti says that at first she thought he was just struggling to get his computer set up or that he was very shy. Ravi's parents finally got so uncomfortable with the fact that Ravi was not acknowledging his new roommate or his roommate's family that they had to go over and pull him away from the computer to make him come over and say hello and introduce himself. But she said his own defense talked about how much of much of a computer genius Ravi is. So she said that wasn't why he snubbed them and stayed at his computer. His defense talked about what an outgoing and friendly person he was. So shyness wasn't his issue that day.

She said that most people when they receive their new roommate's name and email address they either look them up on Facebook and friend them or they start a conversation by email. But Ravi used Tyler's email address to look up every site Tyler had ever visited by way of that email address. The only thing Ravi knew and cared about knowing about Tyler from that point on was that Tyler was gay. (As Ravi wrote to a friend before even starting school, "Fuck my life. My roommate's gay."

Through the whole course of events yesterday all that Ravi's face showed during all this was flickers of anger, ambivalence and boredom. He only cares about how this affects him. When his mother tearfully spoke of how concerned Ravi's 10 y/o brother is for him and how he wants his big brother to be okay...Ravi broke down in tears. It was the only real emotion he showed. He's still incredibly immature and sees himself as the only real victim here.

The judge himself told Ravi that he has shown little remorse and still doesn't grasp the severity of his actions. He raised the issue where Ravi said in a statement to the court that this was a tragedy for 2 families. The judge scolded him on this. Saying that it was a tragedy for 4 families. It was also a tragedy for M.B. and it was a tragedy for Molly Wei. She was also forced out of school after being a Freshmen for 3 weeks. She was put on probation and community service and had to agree to testify against Ravi to avoid jail time.

One of the first things the judge did before passing sentence on Ravi was to put in the paperwork to commute the rest of Molly Wei's probation. He said that she was given 300 hours of community service and had already completed 250 hours of that by the time she showed up to court to testify for the prosecution. The judge felt she had done her duty under the terms of her plea deal and did not require more punishment in the form of more probation.

M.B. got a few digs in also through his victim impact statement read by his attorney. Here are some of M.B.'s comments:


"I wish to discuss Mr. Ravi's actions and how they affected me. I believe that Mr. Ravi exploited my budding and meaningful relationship with Tyler in his vain attempt to gain attention and popularity with others. When I found out what he had done I was devastated; not only about Tyler’s death but also that I was secretly placed under a microscope for the sole amusement of Mr. Ravi and his friends.

It is difficult to describe how all of what has happened has made me feel except to say that it is kind of like a combination of embarrassment, emptiness and fear. I cannot say that these emotions have lessened. In fact, with the recent trial, the media frenzy and seeing the hurt on the faces of the members of the Clemente (sic) family, the emotional pain has only intensified up to the present.

When I was consulted by the prosecution about the possibility of a plea bargain, I was not opposed. I had no malice towards Mr. Ravi and I did not necessarily want him to admit to being bias (sic) or to have to go to prison. I just wanted him to acknowledge that he had done wrong and take responsibility for his conduct. Mr. Ravi rejected responsibility and it seemed that he became stuck in his own whirlwind of excuses and placing the blame on everyone but himself.

For the past year I was filled with anxiety and hurt as the trial approached. I felt like I was continuously walking in a mine field, waiting for the sudden explosion. I kept my secret from my family because I did not want them to go through the same emotional turmoil that I was experiencing. With each news article I read or saw on television, this feeling of uncertainty and unsteadiness only became worse. I read what people said about me in their personal comments to some of the news articles. I thought, “They don’t know me.” The people with their opinions, their prejudices and their judgments should stand in my shoes for just one day to try to understand what is like (sic) to be forced into being faceless and nameless. Can anyone imagine what it is like to be in a public place and hearing people make disparaging comments about someone they do not know – and that person happens to be you? I have lived that experience over and over and it is paralyzing to have to sit there mute knowing that I cannot defend or explain myself.

As the trial approached, the fear of the unknown became overwhelming for me. Then, having to come into court and discuss my private life to a room full of strangers was extremely difficult. Also, seeing Tyler’s family hurt as they had to endure this whole process has added to the overwhelming stress and anxiety that became so common in my life.

While I bear no anger towards Mr. Ravi, after much thought and many sleepless nights, I must say that Mr. Ravi should serve some type of confinement so that he can reflect on the serious harm he has caused. I do not believe that he has taken responsibility for his conduct, and to this day he seems to blame me for the actions he took. His attorney made it very clear at the trial as did Mr. Ravi in his gratuitous media appearances that I was to be his scapegoat. He wants everyone to believe that his conduct was prompted on each occasion by his concern that I may be a thief and his possessions were at risk as a result of my presence. He even went to go so far as to say that when he learned about Tyler’s death, he thought I might have been involved so videoing me might have been a good thing.

I do not mind that Mi. Ravi (sic) has never apologized to me for what he did and said, but I do wonder if it has ever entered his mind that he caused me a great deal of pain, and yet he knows nothing about me. Perhaps if he is required to interact with people that are different from him he will hopefully gain some perspective on the fact there are diverse groups of people on this earth and it is easier to respect and tolerate their diversity than it is to insult it.

I also wish to say that the question of Mr. Ravi being deported has bothered me deeply for while his actions were cruel and childish, I do not feel that he should be denied the right to be an American whether he truly learns and changes or not. If he is ever faced with this dilemma I would be willing to write on his behalf attesting to this.

To sum up my feelings, I wish to state that everyone involved; the Ravi and Clemente (sic) families, the prosecutor’s office, the judge and the entire court staff and the taxpayers of New Jersey have given their time, energy, emotions and much public money to see that justice was done here. And it was. If the laws mean anything then they must be respected. That is why Mr. Ravi must be held accountable for his conduct. I hope that in going forward he can find true redemption within himself and live with this tragedy in a healthy and productive way."
 
Tampa, I understand where you are coming from and you make a good case. I believe both sides have appealed the case and it now goes to the next level. At this point, I haven't a clue what they may decide.
 
I don't think Judge Berman likes New Jersey's bias law. In court, he called it muddled. In the sentencing proceedings, he stated that Mr. Ravi showed no hate for Tyler Clementi. In giving Ravi 30 days in jail, he nullified the jury's verdict as regards the bias intimidation charges. Bruce Kaplan, our district attorney, said that Judge Berman went beyond bounds when it came to sentencing.
 
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tim114 said:
I don't think Judge Berman likes New Jersey's bias law. In court, he called it muddled. In the sentencing proceedings, he stated that Mr. Ravi showed no hate for Tyler Clementi. In giving Ravi 30 days in jail, he nullified the jury's verdict as regards the bias intimidation charges. Bruce Kaplan, our district attorney, said that Judge Berman went beyond bounds when it came to sentencing.
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I agree. He set aside the jury's guilty verdict on the bias intimidation charges and sentenced him without the mandatory prison sentencing guidelines. I would have had no problem with him going much much lower than 5-10 years in this case. But even if you give him only 3-6 months in jail as opposed to actual prison...that's a whole lot more in line with the felony charges Ravi was convicted of in court. Also the judge said yesterday that he felt that most of the time during the trial itself, if the choice was excluding evidence to the benefit of the defense that he usually sided with and gave advantage to the defense. In his opinion at least.

I'm no legal expert by any means. But if the judge felt the bias intimidation charge was never legal or applicable in this case from the very beginning, then why did we go through all this time and taxpayer expense if he was going to ignore the felony charges at the very end anyway? And more importantly why did we put the families and other victims through this? Does he as a judge have the right to tell the state to get approval from an appellate court before pressing certain charges? I honestly don't know.

The bottom line for me though is that I would have been fine with giving Ravi only 30 days in jail if he had ever sincerely apologized to the families and victims involved and ever shown any genuine remorse. He's never done that. The only pity he feels is for himself. All he has ever shown himself to care about through this whole process has been about how this affects him and his own life. He's still wrapped up only in his own victimhood. As M.B. said in his statement, Ravi would like the whole world to put the blame on M.B. and make him the scapegoat for the whole thing.

The judge himself yesterday told Ravi's attorney Altman to his face from the bench that the defense could play the youth card only once. He said that you (Altman) could cite the webcam viewing as a prankish, juvenile stunt of an immature 18 y/o kid, in a plea for leniency only once. But, the judge told him, you do not get the benefit of using that same excuse when Ravi attempted it a second time.
 
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Another surprise from Mr. Ravi today. He apologized and stated he is reporting to jail to serve his 30-day sentence(really 20 days).
 
tim114 said:
Another surprise from Mr. Ravi today. He apologized and stated he is reporting to jail to serve his 30-day sentence(really 20 days).
Click to expand...

It was absurd that his defense threatened to appeal anyway. They were never going to get a more lenient sentence than the one the judge gave them. Their chances of arguing to an appellate court that the sentence was too harsh is laughable on the face of it and would likely have been thrown out. It will be interesting to see what happens with the appeal of the prosecution.

Twenty days in jail should be easy for him. $11,000 in fines is not punitive because it will be easy for his father to cover. So the only punishment he really faces is the 300 hours of community service and 3 years of probation. And the judge even said that the probation could probably be ended early if he met certain criteria at a later time.
 
Mmm this is the first time I've read this thread and it's so sad. I have not and do not have the time to read all 22 pages of post. I would therefore be very grateful if someone such as Tim or Tampa could give me a brief description. I have read the first 5 pages so I know what that horrible person Ravi did, and I have also seen the above posts regarding the sentence which is a farce.

Here in the UK, there is another case of invasion of privacy which has lead to the Levison enquiry. It is the case where Rupert Murdoch's Sunday newspaper's reporters hacked into murdered girl Millie Dowlers mobile phone voicemails. The case is so big over here that it has lead to the Murdoch's News of the World's (which had 126 years of publishing) closure; Murdoch's sons resignation; Murdoch having to appear in Parliamentary enquiries and also the Levison enquiry and a list of people from Tony Blair to chiefs of police also having to appear. The investigation is costing millions.

I personally think that the Tyler Clementi case is just as bad and if not worse than the Dowler case. It's so sad...
 
I tried to find a fairly unbiased source to refer you to Jon. I must admit that I'm very biased in this case. I looked to Wikipedia for a fairly brief (and somewhat oversimplified) synopsis of the events that led us here. There were 2 attempted viewings of Tyler Clemeinti with a male companion. After Tyler's suicide Ravi lied to police and told them that disabled the computer on the second attepmt because he changed his mind. Actually Tyler himself disabled the computer. Tyler told other people this in posts online on the JustUsBoys forum and elsewhere beforre he died.

This description should catch you up to speed on the basics of the case. Some of the description of events in the earlier posts on this thread did turn out to be inaccurate. Emotions and rumors even in the mainstream press were running very high. At trial the rumors and suppositions finally got boiled down to the basic facts.

Although again Ravi's lawyers still tried to convince the jury that Ravi tried to stop the second viewing attempt. A point on which the Clementi family slammed them for in their final victim impact statements to the court before sentencing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharun_Ravi#First_webcam_incident
 
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