Tyler Clementi Suicide Case

[tampa24]

I hope I have shown a bit more maturity but still kept my spunkiness.

I think you've struck the right balance. I also enjoy your spunky side too when you go on a tear once in a while. lol

 

[mikeyank]

I think you've struck the right balance. I also enjoy your spunky side too when you go on a tear once in a while. lol

One could take your post many ways, Tampa. You enjoy Jon's spunk?

But seriously I've also noticed the new somewhat mellower Jon, but I guess that is called maturity, something I hope to have one day.

 

[tampa24]

But seriously I've also noticed the new somewhat mellower Jon, but I guess that is called maturity, something I hope to have one day.

I also like the mellower Jon. Not that I disliked the old. Maybe one of these days when we grow up we can be mature too.

 

[joninliverton]

I also like the mellower Jon. Not that I disliked the old. Maybe one of these days when we grow up we can be mature too.

Thanks guys. There are a few things that still get my back up and Facebook and Twitter are major league offenders.

Now back on topic - Is this case done and dusted or are we to expect some kind of legal objection.

 

[tampa24]

Now back on topic - Is this case done and dusted or are we to expect some kind of legal objection.

Two things Jon.

There is the legal objection of the prosecution to the sentence because they felt the sentence was too lenient. So there will be an appeals process to see if they will add more time to his sentence, including the possibility of prison.

When the defense said they were going to appeal because they objected to the 30 (now 20) days in jail...I thought they were insane. I thought at the time, "Who are you kidding? Given his total lack of remorse and his only concern being how all this has affected him, do you seriously think you are going to get a better deal than this? Thirty days is a gift. Be grateful! Take the "W" and run with it. Don't be a**holes and whine about the 30 (20) days jail time."

Sure enough they realized that trying to appeal a sentence of 30 days in regular jail would be a total waste of time. And that if an appeal of the case was brought by them , the most likely scenario would be that a judge or judges would decide the sentence was too lenient. (And still might, with the appeal of the prosecution yet to be heard.) So lo and behold Ravi suddenly shows with his lawyers saying he will do his 20 days.

Secondly there is also the issue of deportation. While he is unlikely to be deported, it is still a possibility. The judge in the case "recommended" that he not be deported. M.B. himself said he didn't feel he should be deported. The judge said he would "recommend" non deportation because he knows that federal immigration authorities have the final say on matters of deportation. Federal law applies here rather than state law.

 

[joninliverton]

Two things Jon.

There is the legal objection of the prosecution to the sentence because they felt the sentence was too lenient. So there will be an appeals process to see if they will add more time to his sentence, including the possibility of prison.

When the defense said they were going to appeal because they objected to the 30 (now 20) days in jail...I thought they were insane. I thought at the time, "Who are you kidding? Given his total lack of remorse and his only concern being how all this has affected him, do you seriously think you are going to get a better deal than this? Thirty days is a gift. Be grateful! Take the "W" and run with it. Don't be a**holes and whine about the 30 (20) days jail time."

Sure enough they realized that trying to appeal a sentence of 30 days in regular jail would be a total waste of time. And that if an appeal of the case was brought by them , the most likely scenario would be that a judge or judges would decide the sentence was too lenient. (And still might, with the appeal of the prosecution yet to be heard.) So lo and behold Ravi suddenly shows with his lawyers saying he will do his 20 days.

Secondly there is also the issue of deportation. While he is unlikely to be deported, it is still a possibility. The judge in the case "recommended" that he not be deported. M.B. himself said he didn't feel he should be deported. The judge said he would "recommend" non deportation because he knows that federal immigration authorities have the final say on matters of deportation. Federal law applies here rather than state law.

Thanks Tampa. I hope the prosecution appeal is successful but somehow or other I doubt it as it's a State thing. Cases like this are often referred to case law but if there has never been such a case then it is hard to set a precedent - hope I'm not confusing you.

Regarding the deportation - Well as the federal immigration authorities have more clout than the state I hope they come up with the answer both you and I wish for. But let the bastard do at least 12 months in the slammer first.

 

[tim114]

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/06/dharun_ravi_files_notice_of_in.html

Mr. Ravi has filed notice that he will appeal the case. The appeal will be based on the use of the bias intimidation laws being applied to this case and some decisions of Judge Berman to withhold evidence.

 

[joninliverton]

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/06/dharun_ravi_files_notice_of_in.html

Mr. Ravi has filed notice that he will appeal the case. The appeal will be based on the use of the bias intimidation laws being applied to this case and some decisions of Judge Berman to withhold evidence.

Thanks Tim. I just followed a link to the sentencing by the judge and I must admit it confused me. The sentencing clip was then followed by a clip of Ravi's mother giving her sob story of how they moved to America with only 2 suitcases etc etc..

The more I look at this case, which will now probably go on for years, the more I feel that Ravi should have been deported.

 

[tim114]

Jon, I do not agree with your thinking. I don't think this was a hate crime; I think it was a stupid crime - a show-off crime on the part of Mr. Ravi. That is pretty much what the Judge said and I think he got it right. I think the bias intimation law is a serious problem and that is what the appeal is based on. If I were a member of the jury, I would be asked to decide whether Mr. Ravi's actions were motivated by a hatred of gays. I don't see that, nor did the judge. Then I would be asked if Tyler saw it that way. I don't have a clue as what Tyler thought, and we can't ask him since he is not here. It is just bad law. I think what we have to address is the "peeping Tom" law. It is out of date in our internet world. A peeping Tom is usually one person, but a peeping Tom, with a camera and internet connection is a whole different deal. Our laws have to catch up with the current technology.

 

[joninliverton]

Jon, I do not agree with your thinking. I don't think this was a hate crime; I think it was a stupid crime - a show-off crime on the part of Mr. Ravi. That is pretty much what the Judge said and I think he got it right. I think the bias intimation law is a serious problem and that is what the appeal is based on. If I were a member of the jury, I would be asked to decide whether Mr. Ravi's actions were motivated by a hatred of gays. I don't see that, nor did the judge. Then I would be asked if Tyler saw it that way. I don't have a clue as what Tyler thought, and we can't ask him since he is not here. It is just bad law. I think what we have to address is the "peeping Tom" law. It is out of date in our internet world. A peeping Tom is usually one person, but a peeping Tom, with a camera and internet connection is a whole different deal. Our laws have to catch up with the current technology.

Thats fair enough Tim but we're all entitled to our opinion. I am not familiar with the American bias law. But the fact remains that his actions contributed to Tyler's suicide. Don't forget not only did he video him but also outed him on Twitter and tried to do it a second time. This was definitely a bad and nasty prank that went wrong and he should be punished for it and a lot more than 20 days in a nice cushy jail.

 

[Phantom]

Thats fair enough Tim but we're all entitled to our opinion. I am not familiar with the American bias law. But the fact remains that his actions contributed to Tyler's suicide. Don't forget not only did he video him but also outed him on Twitter and tried to do it a second time. This was definitely a bad and nasty prank that went wrong and he should be punished for it and a lot more than 20 days in a nice cushy jail.

I have to agree that he should receive more than 30 days in jail for this. This was a serious violation of Tyler's privacy. As to contributing to Tyler's suicide, I agree that it was a contributing factor, but only to an extent. Tyler chose to commit suicide. He wasn't forced to. Don't misunderstand me. I am not siding with the defence in this case. I am simply pointing out facts. One thing that appears to have been lost in our society today is personal responsibility. Humans have the ability to reason and make decisions. Tyler chose his actions in response to this situation. He could have chosen to live and seek restitution or revenge. I'm not saying he should have done one of these. I am only trying to show that he had a choice. The man responsible for violating his privacy should be punished for his actions, which was violating Tyler's privacy, and yes 30 days in jail is insufficient. They are right to appeal this. Had Tyler chosen to live instead, his life would have changed drastically as a result of this. The family should definitely seek restitution, though that will never replace Tyler. In a case like this, there is no winner.

 

[tim114]

Mr. Ravi is expected to be released from county jail on Tuesday. The Federal government announced today that Ravi will not be deported. Both sides have appealed the case.

 

[tampa24]

Mr. Ravi is expected to be released from county jail on Tuesday. The Federal government announced today that Ravi will not be deported. Both sides have appealed the case.

Rah.

Is this the test case and the precedent we want to set? Is this the message we want to send to bullies all over the country? That if you bully someone to the point of suicide you may get 20 days in jail and probation?

I realize that this was not one of most extreme examples of cyberbullying out there. And that Tyler had choices of his own. Unfortunately because of the publicity, this will be now considered case law. N.J. needs to toughen its laws in regards to cyberbullying so the state can charge people for this level of harassment with more commensurate punishments. That way prosecutors won't have to use hate crime and bias charges. And then judges won't hand out sentences more in line with a car thief who went joyriding.

It wasn't the prosecution's fault that they had only the really heavy guns to being to bear on Ravi. Ten years in prison with rapists and murderers does seem pretty steep. But 20 days is a slap on the wrist and a total joke. I'm still glad the prosecution did take this to court and win with the jury.

Time will tell how the prosecution's appeal goes. The fact that the defense is still appealing anything at all here is almost unfathomable. Ravi is a convicted felon. Pure and simple.

 

[joninliverton]

Rah.

Is this the test case and the precedent we want to set? Is this the message we want to send to bullies all over the country? That if you bully someone to the point of suicide you may get 20 days in jail and probation?

I realize that this was not one of most extreme examples of cyberbullying out there. And that Tyler had choices of his own. Unfortunately because of the publicity, this will be now considered case law. N.J. needs to toughen its laws in regards to cyberbullying so the state can charge people for this level of harassment with more commensurate punishments. That way prosecutors won't have to use hate crime and bias charges. And then judges won't hand out sentences more in line with a car thief who went joyriding.

It wasn't the prosecution's fault that they had only the really heavy guns to being to bear on Ravi. Ten years in prison with rapists and murderers does seem pretty steep. But 20 days is a slap on the wrist and a total joke. I'm still glad the prosecution did take this to court and win with the jury.

Time will tell how the prosecution's appeal goes. The fact that the defense is still appealing anything at all here is almost unfathomable. Ravi is a convicted felon. Pure and simple.

Absolutely Tampa. NJ should be ashamed of itself and the precedent it has set itself from this case. And yes, as this was the first one, then future cases - unless prosecuted by an excellent lawyer, will follow suit because of case law.
I'm not down with the Tyler had choices of his own quote - simply because how can you behave and make rational decisions if you are a victim of bullying. Ravi's punishment is the biggest and saddest joke of the year.

 

[tampa24]

I'm not down with the Tyler had choices of his own quote - simply because how can you behave and make rational decisions if you are a victim of bullying.

I understand Jon. I guess I'm just trying to make the point that I understand those who are saying that Ravi never put a gun to Tyler. He never deliberately tried to kill him. Yet from the tone of my posts I think everyone can see that I blame Ravi for all of the cyberbullying that led to this tragic loss of life. And it's his total lack of any genuine remorse for Tyler and Tyler's family that I have had such a hard time letting go of in this case.

Watching Ravi in the televised trial I saw a very immature person who was only concerned for how Tyler's suicide and the subsequent trial was affecting his life and his future. He didn't appear to ever give a rat's behind about Tyler, Tyler's family or M.B.

As the glare of publicity over the suicide and the trial itself dragged on, I believe he developed a sense of martyrdom that he is the real victim here. Just like when he first left the dorm after the crisis counselors visited him and told him that his roommate committed suicide. He went back to stay at his parents' house and texted a friend that he was hanging out there temporarily. He said he was waiting for all of this (the suicide and investigation) to "blow over"...presumably so he could get back to the dorms, return to classes and pretend the whole thing never happened.

 

[another1]

i don't think this case stands for anything but that novel uses of the law makes for bad law.
never has a charge of hate-crime or bais been used in a violation of privacy case. violation of privacy is for cases where the charged person used a camera to view, record or transmit images for sexual gratification. as the judge said, bais in a violation of privacy was new to him.
this was cyberspace bullying for which new jersey has no law.
with the right law a punishment fitting the crime would be possible.
unfortunately, few states have laws against bullying or cyberbullying.

 

[joninliverton]

I understand Jon. I guess I'm just trying to make the point that I understand those who are saying that Ravi never put a gun to Tyler. He never deliberately tried to kill him. .

Tampa, you don't have to physically put a gun at someones head, you can do so by bullying, so in reality the bullying was so bad that he may has well as put a gun against his head.

I'm afraid the true facts of the case have been mashed up with all the legalities and I predict that nothing more will be done to Ravi, punishment wise. Sure the case will continue and cost lots of money, but Ravi will continue to be free and harass others.

 

[tim114]

i don't think this case stands for anything but that novel uses of the law makes for bad law.
never has a charge of hate-crime or bais been used in a violation of privacy case. violation of privacy is for cases where the charged person used a camera to view, record or transmit images for sexual gratification. as the judge said, bais in a violation of privacy was new to him.
this was cyberspace bullying for which new jersey has no law.
with the right law a punishment fitting the crime would be possible.
unfortunately, few states have laws against bullying or cyberbullying.

Another 1, I am going with your thinking here. The judicial system does not get to use bias intimidation laws in a case like this. I am not a fan of the hate crime laws. I am certainly do not agree how they were applied here. We need new laws pertaining to this situation. It is not a "peeping Tom" situation any more. The internet is involved. The laws are not up to speed. That is the problem.

 

[tim114]

i don't think this case stands for anything but that novel uses of the law makes for bad law.
never has a charge of hate-crime or bais been used in a violation of privacy case. violation of privacy is for cases where the charged person used a camera to view, record or transmit images for sexual gratification. as the judge said, bais in a violation of privacy was new to him.
this was cyberspace bullying for which new jersey has no law.
with the right law a punishment fitting the crime would be possible.
unfortunately, few states have laws against bullying or cyberbullying.

I don't think this case was about bullying. I really think Mr. Ravi was just being an asshole - a computer nerd asshole. I don't think he thought about the possible consequences of his actions. Tyler was acting dangerously with his new- found freedom as a Rutgers student. Maybe just the perfect storm.

 

[joninliverton]

I don't think this case was about bullying. I really think Mr. Ravi was just being an asshole - a computer nerd asshole. I don't think he thought about the possible consequences of his actions. Tyler was acting dangerously with his new- found freedom as a Rutgers student. Maybe just the perfect storm.

You can be an asshole by drinking too much beer and then going behind the wheel of a car - but it's still a crime and if you kill someone as a result then it's a bigger one.

I cannot believe how you guys are belittling the offence that Ravi committed and now seem to think Tyler was at fault too. Was he to blame because he thought he was gay and invited someone around? If so then those who think that should not even be members of this site and join the local church.