Tequila69
Well-known Member
And thank you Tampa for your most respectful attitude and responses to this tragic situation!
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Tyler Clementi Suicide Case
- Thread starter tim114
- Start date
In a court appearance Thursday, Judge Berman ruled that the identity of M.B. is to be released only to Ravi, his lawyer and his lawyer's investigator. Ravi turned down a plea deal that would have put him in prison for less than five years. Berman also ruled that personal letters, documents and the contents of Clementi's computer should not be turned over to the defense. Berman also denied a motion to recuse himself from the case. Trial date was set for February 21.
Tim
Tim
I was wondering why all the fuss over personal letters, documents and the contents of Clementi's computer. I would guess the judge found it to be not relevant to the 15 counts that Ravi was charged with. Although many assume Ravi's actions was the cause of the suicide, he is not charged with that. However, the suicide overhangs the whole case.
Tim
Tim
Again Tim I thank you very much for giving us these updates as the case winds its way through the labyrinthian system. The defense does want to have all the evidence available to it as possible. I'm sure that they don't want to be blindsided by anything the prosecution throws against them. That's just basic law.
I fear for the young man in question though who was the "date" that Clementi was meeting in his dorm room. His life could be turned upside down if he becomes a "person of interest" in the media. Such a spotlight doesn't always go the "happy ending" way of fame and fortune in a reality tv show. Some people's lives are ruined. I don't want to see this case claim yet another victim.
I fear for the young man in question though who was the "date" that Clementi was meeting in his dorm room. His life could be turned upside down if he becomes a "person of interest" in the media. Such a spotlight doesn't always go the "happy ending" way of fame and fortune in a reality tv show. Some people's lives are ruined. I don't want to see this case claim yet another victim.
Outing has come up on this thread a number of times. Various "public figures" have been outed over the years by magazines and even gay organizations. I guess the gay organizations felt that if the individual came out of the closet, it would help the cause. I never much liked this. I always felt a person's sexuality was his/her business. Now, this is not quite the same as what Ravi did, but it had a similar outcome. Ravi invaded Tyler's privacy. One has to wonder how far the magazines and the gay organizations went to out these "public figures."
Tim
Tim
Update for the case from NJ.com:
Dharun Ravi turned down an offer for probation this morning. The offer was made in return for his admitting bias and invasion of privacy. The trial remains set for Feb. 21. More details on the offer can be found at the above source. This offer comes as a surprise to me. Also turning down the offer must have been a really difficult decision for Ravi.
Dharun Ravi turned down an offer for probation this morning. The offer was made in return for his admitting bias and invasion of privacy. The trial remains set for Feb. 21. More details on the offer can be found at the above source. This offer comes as a surprise to me. Also turning down the offer must have been a really difficult decision for Ravi.
Very good point Tim. Whose interests are these organizations trying to promote and serve by outing people? Does the person involved feel grateful for the "favor"?
Yes. A difficult decision because it could have been a much more lenient sentence than he faces if he loses at trial. Of course had he accepted probation he would have had to admit guilt. Doing so would have been on his criminal record for life. It will be an interesting roll of the dice at trial.
As always I thank you Tim for keeping us up to date on the developments.
Ravi was in court again this last Friday, January 20th. Jury selection starts February 17th and the trail is scheduled for early in March. The name of the man in Tyler's room will be on a list of potential witnesses that the potential jurors will see.
Beth
BSB Addict
Thank you Tim. I believe if he is found guilty or not, no one will ever "win" from this terrible occurrence.
Unfortunately, to say the least, Tyler Clementi made the decision to end his own life. It was his decision.
Actually why he made this decision will never be known. Please seriously understand the ? why. Was this the straw that broke the camels back, was he unable to deal with being gay. Those are the questions we will never really know the answers to.
It is obvious that the behavior of Mr. Ravi was not only dysfunctional, but intentional and with no regard for Tyler's privacy or human dignity. For this crime and for all those who follow its tenants, from those who profess to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ to those who profess to follow the teachings of any other beliefs. Remember one thing, if there is a God there is only one and no God would give blessing to any "religion" created by man. God is the religion.
Actually why he made this decision will never be known. Please seriously understand the ? why. Was this the straw that broke the camels back, was he unable to deal with being gay. Those are the questions we will never really know the answers to.
It is obvious that the behavior of Mr. Ravi was not only dysfunctional, but intentional and with no regard for Tyler's privacy or human dignity. For this crime and for all those who follow its tenants, from those who profess to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ to those who profess to follow the teachings of any other beliefs. Remember one thing, if there is a God there is only one and no God would give blessing to any "religion" created by man. God is the religion.
JLipps4u
BSB Addict
Having been outed at the ripe age of 17, I have never found any worthwhile reason to feel gratitude to my outer, may he rot in hell.
I certainly understand the pain and anger felt by people who have been outed. To be outed as a teen can have profound effects on one's life, and those effects are not always beneficial. I too would have committed suicide, and thought seriously about it, but my strong religious indoctrination just did not allow me that luxury.
I sit here in tears reliving the pain and anguish it caused me so many years ago, it is something you never get over. At least, I have never found the method. Yes, I am a happy person, and I have had a blessed life, and honestly, I don't dwell on the past. I have fought for my happiness.
I have avoided this thread for sometime now because I get very emotional reading about others who have been outed, and the consequences they must live with, or die because of.
Ravi may get 10 years?? A waste of a life, but he still has a life. His actions lead directly to the loss of another man's, one who will not come back to life in 10 years!
I certainly understand the pain and anger felt by people who have been outed. To be outed as a teen can have profound effects on one's life, and those effects are not always beneficial. I too would have committed suicide, and thought seriously about it, but my strong religious indoctrination just did not allow me that luxury.
I sit here in tears reliving the pain and anguish it caused me so many years ago, it is something you never get over. At least, I have never found the method. Yes, I am a happy person, and I have had a blessed life, and honestly, I don't dwell on the past. I have fought for my happiness.
I have avoided this thread for sometime now because I get very emotional reading about others who have been outed, and the consequences they must live with, or die because of.
Ravi may get 10 years?? A waste of a life, but he still has a life. His actions lead directly to the loss of another man's, one who will not come back to life in 10 years!
February 6th; www.nj.com Click Middlesex
The prosecutor wants a third-degree charge of hindering apprehension changed to a second-degree charge. This means there will be a chance of prison time for this charge. It appears that Judge Berman discovered this hindering charge was not labeled correctly and notified the prosecution last month. Lawyers for both sides were instructed to file motions. Judge Berman also ordered the prosecution to turn over more information found on Clementi's computer.
The prosecutor wants a third-degree charge of hindering apprehension changed to a second-degree charge. This means there will be a chance of prison time for this charge. It appears that Judge Berman discovered this hindering charge was not labeled correctly and notified the prosecution last month. Lawyers for both sides were instructed to file motions. Judge Berman also ordered the prosecution to turn over more information found on Clementi's computer.
Here's the link to the New Yorker article:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/02/06/120206fa_fact_parker?currentPage=1
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/02/06/120206fa_fact_parker?currentPage=1
Well, after reading the article we have alot more info than we did at the tragic beginning of this very sad tale. I had already read a recent article in People magazine that cleared up many misconceptions. Of course this NY'r article is a serious piece of very good investigative journalism. I highly recommend it for anyone interested in the case.
We now know that Tyler had already (just) come out to his family before leaving for college. He had an older brother who is gay but was still in the closet when Tyler left for school. The parents had long suspected that Tyler's brother was gay yet never seriously considered the same of Tyler. Tyler's dad took the news a little better than his mother. In the People magazine article his mom said that she was shocked to find out later that Tyler said she had "rejected" him for being gay. This came out in either electronic records of his texts or messages posted on the JustUsBoys forum.
Her take on his coming out to her was that it was very difficult for her because she realized he would not get married, have kids, give her grandkids, etc. All the things you would expect a woman in the role of a mom to feel. She said they had a cry together and then hugged at the end. And she still talked to him regularly by phone after he left for school. Obviously though in Tyler's 18 y/o mind he didn't feel she was as supportive of him as he would have hoped. Although it's a futile exercise on all our parts, we (and later a jury) can't help but try to figure out Tyler's mindset that led him to take his own life.
The NY'r article plays down what the People magazine article plays up. That being the meeting of the two families in the dorm room. In hindsight Tyler's parents paint a picture of Rhavi being very rude and dismissive of Tyler when they first meet in the dorm in the presence of both families. He was rude in the sense that he practically refused to look at Tyler or say a word to him as he unpacked his things. Rhavi's dad finally had to tell him to go over and introduce himself to his new roommate. Rhavi's obvious reluctance to even acknowledge Tyler was awkward for everyone in the room.
In hindsight the most obvious conclusion for his rude behavior was that he knew Tyler was gay. We know that because Rhavi has such impressive internet skills that he took electronic snooping and research of a person to a level many of us in here over 30 aren't skilled enough to do. Once he had Tyler's name and email address he was off on a hunt. Tyler wasn't out to his fellow church members, his previous high school, the few friends he had back home and all the new people he would later meet on campus. He wasn't out on his FB account or MySpace or anything like that. Yet before they even met Rhavi had found Tyler's personal posts on the JustUsBoys forum and was electronically sharing the contents of said posts with his own friends. Nice guy...
Tyler was already a very socially awkward person. One can presume that his coping skills were not the best either. He was just starting the process of coming out socially beyond the (supposed) anonymity of online chat rooms. With all the stress, hopes and worries that that entails. And then this very shy young man walked into an important new social relationship at an even greater disadvantage. He had all the usual stress of starting college and meeting a whole new set of people. Then his new roommate already knows he's gay and is judging him for it before Tyler has time to decide when or if to tell him this himself. Rhavi was already "outing" him publicly online to his own friends before Tyler ever set foot in the dorm room. With much more blatant and intrusive outing to come later. How many 18 y/o's could easily cope with all that?
The article paints a picture of Rhavi as being very immature, conceited, self-absorbed and narcissistic. He looked for any reason to be able to look down on someone else (namely Tyler in this case) in comparison to himself. Rhavi drove a BMW in high school so he felt like he could look down on Tyler for being both gay and "poor". Rhavi isn't a U.S. citizen so I think that maybe a good punishment in itself would be to just deport him and take him away from his immediate family...send him back to India where there are many more "poor" people than rich people. Since he apparently hates poor people so much. As the article points out though, if he is convicted of any of the more serious charges...deportation is a strong possibility anyway.
The bottom line though is that there is no clear indication that he will be convicted of the most serious charges. The little evidence we are aware of now paints a contradictory picture for a jury. At best he's a very ignorant, immature jerk who got himself way in over his head. One who is not nearly as smart as he wants to think he is. A guy who still deserves some punishment, yet not heavy prison time. We won't have a fuller picture of his character, mindset and motives until we see what comes out at trial. In his defense though, he does not appear to fall neatly into the category of a racist skinhead homophobe out to rid the world of gays.
We now know that Tyler had already (just) come out to his family before leaving for college. He had an older brother who is gay but was still in the closet when Tyler left for school. The parents had long suspected that Tyler's brother was gay yet never seriously considered the same of Tyler. Tyler's dad took the news a little better than his mother. In the People magazine article his mom said that she was shocked to find out later that Tyler said she had "rejected" him for being gay. This came out in either electronic records of his texts or messages posted on the JustUsBoys forum.
Her take on his coming out to her was that it was very difficult for her because she realized he would not get married, have kids, give her grandkids, etc. All the things you would expect a woman in the role of a mom to feel. She said they had a cry together and then hugged at the end. And she still talked to him regularly by phone after he left for school. Obviously though in Tyler's 18 y/o mind he didn't feel she was as supportive of him as he would have hoped. Although it's a futile exercise on all our parts, we (and later a jury) can't help but try to figure out Tyler's mindset that led him to take his own life.
The NY'r article plays down what the People magazine article plays up. That being the meeting of the two families in the dorm room. In hindsight Tyler's parents paint a picture of Rhavi being very rude and dismissive of Tyler when they first meet in the dorm in the presence of both families. He was rude in the sense that he practically refused to look at Tyler or say a word to him as he unpacked his things. Rhavi's dad finally had to tell him to go over and introduce himself to his new roommate. Rhavi's obvious reluctance to even acknowledge Tyler was awkward for everyone in the room.
In hindsight the most obvious conclusion for his rude behavior was that he knew Tyler was gay. We know that because Rhavi has such impressive internet skills that he took electronic snooping and research of a person to a level many of us in here over 30 aren't skilled enough to do. Once he had Tyler's name and email address he was off on a hunt. Tyler wasn't out to his fellow church members, his previous high school, the few friends he had back home and all the new people he would later meet on campus. He wasn't out on his FB account or MySpace or anything like that. Yet before they even met Rhavi had found Tyler's personal posts on the JustUsBoys forum and was electronically sharing the contents of said posts with his own friends. Nice guy...
Tyler was already a very socially awkward person. One can presume that his coping skills were not the best either. He was just starting the process of coming out socially beyond the (supposed) anonymity of online chat rooms. With all the stress, hopes and worries that that entails. And then this very shy young man walked into an important new social relationship at an even greater disadvantage. He had all the usual stress of starting college and meeting a whole new set of people. Then his new roommate already knows he's gay and is judging him for it before Tyler has time to decide when or if to tell him this himself. Rhavi was already "outing" him publicly online to his own friends before Tyler ever set foot in the dorm room. With much more blatant and intrusive outing to come later. How many 18 y/o's could easily cope with all that?
The article paints a picture of Rhavi as being very immature, conceited, self-absorbed and narcissistic. He looked for any reason to be able to look down on someone else (namely Tyler in this case) in comparison to himself. Rhavi drove a BMW in high school so he felt like he could look down on Tyler for being both gay and "poor". Rhavi isn't a U.S. citizen so I think that maybe a good punishment in itself would be to just deport him and take him away from his immediate family...send him back to India where there are many more "poor" people than rich people. Since he apparently hates poor people so much. As the article points out though, if he is convicted of any of the more serious charges...deportation is a strong possibility anyway.
The bottom line though is that there is no clear indication that he will be convicted of the most serious charges. The little evidence we are aware of now paints a contradictory picture for a jury. At best he's a very ignorant, immature jerk who got himself way in over his head. One who is not nearly as smart as he wants to think he is. A guy who still deserves some punishment, yet not heavy prison time. We won't have a fuller picture of his character, mindset and motives until we see what comes out at trial. In his defense though, he does not appear to fall neatly into the category of a racist skinhead homophobe out to rid the world of gays.
Prior to rooming together, Dharun Ravi knew Tyler Clementi's first name and the first letter of his last name. He also had his email address, [email protected]. How does one find out that Tyler is gay from that? Scorpio, can you help?
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