Tyler Clementi Suicide Case

[tim114]

I live near Rutgers University and have been following the Tyler Clementi Case. Last Fall there were a number of suicides involving harassment over the internet. This case is going to trial, I suppose, because they have two adults involved. If you are not familiar with the case, a google search will bring you up to speed quickly. As of now Dharun Ravi has been indicted and charged with 15 different counts. He was charged with bias intimidation, which adds another 5 years of possible prison time (total 10 years). Molly Wie has been admitted to a pre-trial intervention program. No trial for her. Blue Media (David) owns a site called "JustUsBoys." Tyler may have been posting on this site just prior to his suicide.

I have a problem with these bias charges, not just here, but in all cases. Do they really serve justice? This whole situation could have been a stupid college prank gone terribly wrong. Does that require a possible 10 year prison term?

I would like to hear the forum's thinking on this.

 

[richardnoggin869]

I live near Rutgers University and have been following the Tyler Clementi Case. Last Fall there were a number of suicides involving harassment over the internet. This case is going to trial, I suppose, because they have two adults involved. If you are not familiar with the case, a google search will bring you up to speed quickly. As of now Dharun Ravi has been indicted and charged with 15 different counts. He was charged with bias intimidation, which adds another 5 years of possible prison time (total 10 years). Molly Wie has been admitted to a pre-trial intervention program. No trial for her. Blue Media (David) owns a site called "JustUsBoys." Tyler may have been posting on this site just prior to his suicide.

I have a problem with these bias charges, not just here, but in all cases. Do they really serve justice? This whole situation could have been a stupid college prank gone terribly wrong. Does that require a possible 10 year prison term?

I would like to hear the forum's thinking on this.

Dear Tim 114,

Let me explain this as calmly as I can in the best non-judge mental way that I can.

These people spy-cammed on a dorm mate that was having sex with another student. They outed him and posted the video through several medias on the web. They caused embarrassment, humiliation, and degraded his social status at a renowned university. Because of this the man committed suicide. Their actions and their actions alone was the cause of this mans death.

Do you really think if a person causes the death of another by any means, they should not be punished? Does this mean murder, mugging, robbery, malicious harassment, are off the table for punishment?

Consequences of actions my friend, consequences of actions.

 

[tampa24]

Thank you for starting this thread Tim.

I must apologize first to Tyler Clementi for misspelling his name on my other thread. On another matter you are quite right that Tyler posted his concerns and grief on the JustUsBoys forum that is owned by Blu. However it is Mark who owns BluMedia Inc. So poor Mark was unwittingly pulled into, and given a somewhat front row seat, to the drama that unfolded.

Obviously that whole saga gripped the nation. Even to the point that the ultra-conservative governor of New Jersey Chris Christie spoke about it and was in tears at one point. This is not an exact quote but he said something along the lines of, "I myself have a 17 year old son who will be going to college soon. I can't imagine the grief that the family must be going through."

I dare say Tim that your opinion on this will place you in a minority here in the forum. Emotions on this in the forum as well as the nation may run high.

So I ask that anyone who disagrees with you to do so respectfully.

 

[tampa24]

My feelings on this evolved once I got past the initial anger from when the story first broke. I wanted to see swift and very harsh punishment for the two people most involved in this. Dahrun Ravi was the main instigator though of course. Wie just got pulled into a nightmare that she had little control over once Ravi went on Twitter about everything. My feelings have softened towards her.

It started out as a college roommate asking to have the dorm room alone while he had a date over. Having lived in the dorms myself I know that that is very common. Whether it's as innocent as just having a date over to listen to music and talk, or wanting time alone for sex. In any case Ravi agreed to make himself scarce for Tyler's date like any good roommate would do.

What he didn't tell him was that he had set up his laptop (with camera) to record a live feed of what was happening in the room. He went down the hall to Wie's room and asked her to let him use her computer so that he access the live feed from his laptop. Being a gullible 18-19 y/o girl she agreed. It could have been a matter of simple voyeurism and invasion of privacy if Tyler had been straight. However when they saw that Tyler's date was another guy, Ravi gleefully outed his new roommate to all his friends on Twitter.

Ravi gave no thought whatsoever to the fact that Tyler was not out to his even his own family. Nor that he especially wasn't out to his only siblings who were two older brothers. So before Tyler even knows what's hit him he has been outed to most of the school. It's stressful enough the first several weeks of college to adjust to all these major changes in your life without being closeted and suddenly outed publicly at the same time.

Tyler was reeling when the rumors from Ravi's Twitter posts got back to him. In spite of this for whatever reason Tyler asked for the room alone again for another date. This time Ravi went totally out of bounds and above the law. He set up his laptop again and left the room. He tweeted to all of his friends, "It's happening again!". But not only that, he gives the link on Twitter so that all of his friends can also watch the live feed from the laptop in his room. This is not some anonymous possibly sexual vid Ravi is posting a link to. They all know Tyler's name and where he lives on campus.

Would Ravi have been so eager to publicly tell the campus via Twitter that his roommate had brought a girl back the room and kissed her? The fact that Tyler did this with another guy gave Ravi the green light to broadcast word of this publicly. Why? Because gay people either deserve it for being perverts...or because they won't fight back. Or both. An actual Twitter post after the first incident: "Caught my roommate kissing another dude. Yay."

Tyler didn't fall for the hidden camera trick the second time and disabled it. So the people that Ravi invited to watch saw nothing. Would Ravi have dared to publicly broadcast the live feed from his laptop if it had been another girl in the room with Tyler? Obviously in spite of being accepted into college, Ravi's not nearly as smart as he wants to think he is. But I don't think that he would have. With a hetero encounter on campus he would have feared his roommate and/or the girl in question calling the U.P., lodging a complaint with the RA on the hall... Maybe even calling the city police.

Even if the bf and gf don't call the police and make it even more public than Ravi has already done...he (Ravi) still has to fear the consequences of doing this. What if the girl in question calls her dad and 3 older brothers? What are the chances that they might decide track Ravi down on campus and pay him a little visit? Maybe kick the shit of him for humiliating the daughter/sister in that way?

Again Ravi feared none of that. Why? Because gay people deserve to be humiliated in that way? Because they are too ashamed to fight back or involve police? Apparently gay people are just supposed to accept his egregious actions and just wallow in their own shame and humiliation. He really thought he was invincible in doing this because it involved gay people.

Even though Ravi's viewers didn't get show that night when they tried to access his laptop with the link he gave them...the damage to Tyler's reputation on campus was catastrophic for him. He was now totally outed by all these Twitter posts and on-campus rumors before he himself had the time for reflection to come to terms with being gay.

 

[tim114]

Tampa,

Thanks for taking the time for the brief summary of the situation leading up to the suicide.

A couple of points to consider while we are discussing this:

1. I do no know how many friends Mr. Ravi had on his Twitter account. He certainly was not informing the whole university that his roommate was. Ravi knew that Tyler was gay. Tyler told him the summer prior to school starting. I would guess that Ravi had discussed this with his Twitter friends prior to this incident.

2. I do not know that Mr. Ravi was biased toward gays.

3. As you point out Mr. Ravi streamed no video. I think the intent was there but not the opportunity.

Tim

 

[tampa24]

Ravi knew that Tyler was gay. Tyler told him the summer prior to school starting. I would guess that Ravi had discussed this with his Twitter friends prior to this incident.

I never heard any of that mentioned in any of the voluminous coverage that I read following the incident.

Can you direct me to any sites or links that mention this?

 

[tim114]

Tampa,

What is your opinion of how Molly Wei was dealt with. She was not indicted. She got a pre-trail intervention. (300 hours of community service and enrollment into a program). No legal record of her involvement if she follows through. Tyler's parents agreed with the court's handling of her case.

Tim

 

[tampa24]

I think that she deserved only a minor punishment for this. When a guy living on your hall asks to use your computer you don't have any idea that it will end in an international incident. Nor should you expect that it would. I'm glad that her life won't be totally ruined by this. I don't think she should have to serve jail time.

 

[tim114]

Tampa,

OK. We agree on Molly. Trying to find where I read that Tyler and Ravi were in touch in the summer. I will give you a link if I can find it.

Tim

 

[Markymark]

Tampa, I am very glad that you and Tim have engaged in such a frank and open dialogue concerning the activities engaged in by Ravi. A few posts back, you asked what the reason could be that Ravi thought he had nothing to fear from Tyler, much less anyone else, in terms of enforcement. You submit that perhaps the reason is because Ravi knew Tyler was gay, and that such information meant that Ravi thought he had a right to do what he did. Was he thinking? Or is it possible that Ravi felt threatened by Tyler's possible earlier admission of being gay, and blindly reacted in a way that would prove to Tyler that he (Ravi) did not approve of Tyler's choice? Perhaps Ravi was simply out to "fix Tyler" in the harshest way he could imagine; to deliberately destroy his reputation. I believe Ravi set out on a deliberate premeditated course of action which he knew would result in catastrophic consequences. I believe his hope was to see Tyler kicked out on moral grounds, his potential career plans in ruins for having to leave a prestigious university. As to whether Ravi "gave no thought whatsoever to whether Tyler was out to his family..." I don't believe it for one second. THAT WAS EXACTLY WHAT THAT BASTARD WAS HOPING FOR!

Ravi was a student at Rutgers, presumably there to learn. Maybe the best lesson he'll learn is one not taught in class. Maybe, once this is all over, he can learn to respect human life in ALL it's myriad differences!

 

[tampa24]

I don't believe that Ravi was told by Clementi that he was gay in the summer before they met. I believe that Ravi found out Tyler was gay when he watched him kiss another "dude" through the camera on his laptop.

When you are assigned a roommate in college who you have not yet met, you are provided a name and address. All normal enough.... If Tyler was not out to his own family though the idea that he would confide a secret like that to a total stranger is right next to impossible.

I think Ravi's actions were malicious and expressed his shock and disgust upon finding out that he had a gay roommate.

 

[tim114]

Tampa,

I can not find where I read that. So let's assume that it was not the case.

Your take on Ravi's motivation is certainly possible. I just don't see any evidence that would support this that would stand up in court.

 

[tampa24]

Dear Tim,

You and I are in agreement that it will be a difficult case to make in court that this was a hate crime. Some of us may feel that it is. But proving it in court is a different story. No doubt the defense will try to portray him a naive young Freshmen just out of high school who made some bad decisions....and had no idea the extent of emotional harm he had done to an emotionally fragile fellow student. No doubt as with any defense for rapists and other guilty parties in other crimes , they will cast most of the blame on the victim.

I don't think that he should get 20 years of hard time with violent criminals. But the justice system needs to find the right balance to send the proper message. That being that the penalty for his actions needs to set a precedent for the sake of deterrence. So that anyone else thinking of harassing and outing a gay citizen will have reason to think twice of the legal consequences.

If the justice system doesn't come down on him hard, and lets him off with a slap on the wrist, then it would be open season on gays on campus.

 

[tim114]

As you can tell I have trouble with these bias charges. Not just pertaining to this case, but to other types of cases as well. I think they are hard to prove. I would just try the person for the crime and forget about the motivation.

I also have trouble with the possible years in prison. I thought 5 years was a bit much and now it is up to a possible 10 years.

If there wasn't a suicide here, we probably wouldn't even be hearing about this. So if Mr. Ravi is convicted and gets the full ten years, will this be the new standard? If this happens again without a suicide, then what is the standard? Different?

 

[tim114]

Tampa,

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2010/10/rutgers_suicide_a_hate_crime_i.

Here is where I read about Dharun knowing Tyler was gay in the summer of 2010. It is not in the article itself, but in the comments. (Starts with are you serious) Where the person got this information from, I don't know.

Tim

 

[tim114]

Tampa,

Link doesn't work for me.

Try this: Google: voices washington post tyler clementi

Second one on front page.

Tim

 

[tampa24]

Thanks for trying Tim.

I looked at one page but couldn't find it. In any case those comments put on there by anonymous posters cannot be taken as fact. That doesn't mean that they are automatically wrong or misinformed. But for something to be taken as a fact that can be verified by cross checking several sources...the info really needs to be in the news article itself.

 

[tim114]

Tampa,

So I was right. I read that Dharun knew that Tyler was gay prior to their rooming together. I may not have read that Tyler told him. That could have been an assumption on my part. One has to watch that. Dharun was into computers and may have been majoring in IT. He could have been a budding hacker. These guys start young. So Dharun could have hacked into Tyler's computer via an email address and figured out he was gay without Tyler's knowledge. Still don't know whether Dharun was homophobic or not. However, if this is true, it could very well give more support to your thesis. Still it does not get to motivation. Is Dharun a homophobe with a sinister plan or just a jerk?

Tim

 

[tim114]

Tampa,

This is true. Anyone with a computer can type anything. Then one also has to be careful with the main media also. The news gets spun very much nowadays.

Tim

 

[tampa24]

Then one also has to be careful with the main media also. The news gets spun very much nowadays.

That's for sure.