obama's speech

[tightywhitieboy]

smack that!!! i think the speech was great. he addressed a lot of the misinformation and spelled out a lot of specifics. i know some will still disagree, but bottom line, we have to do something. the US cannot afford the health care system we currently have. and the government should provide health care to those who cannot afford it any other way. "the government should do for the people what the people cannot do for themselves"

 

[i2ina69]

true, but will they. most of the time they say one thing and do something else.

 

[slimvintage]

Speech was brilliant, and blessed with what every political orator dreams of: a trashy, confused, retrograde, opportunistic, political pygmy, pissing his sorry pants, hyperventilating, hypertensive, just waiting to deliver his li'l preplanned, misguided heckle.

Poor damned devil thought he'd be a far-right hero by today with offers of a speech tour and speculation on Fox about a run in 2012.

Thanks Joe, you're a hero to me anyway.

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Presi...48a60//s:/politico/20090910/pl_politico/26970




.

 

[tightywhitieboy]

Speech was brilliant, and blessed with what every political orator dreams of: a trashy, confused, retrograde, opportunistic, political pygmy, pissing his sorry pants, hyperventilating, hypertensive, just waiting to deliver his li'l preplanned, misguided heckle.

Poor damned devil thought he'd be a far-right hero by today with offers of a speech tour and speculation on Fox about a run in 2012.

Thanks Joe, you're a hero to me anyway.

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Presi...48a60//s:/politico/20090910/pl_politico/26970


.

unfortunately the outburst has been getting more coverage than the content of the speech.

some friends and i want to start a grassroots movement to help with the health care reform called "Smack It 09".

cause we think obama should have said, "fools, we're gonna pass this fucker!!! the reform is coming so deal with it! smack it!!!"

 

[vicekid]

unfortunately the outburst has been getting more coverage than the content of the speech.

some friends and i want to start a grassroots movement to help with the health care reform called "Smack It 09".

cause we think obama should have said, "fools, we're gonna pass this fucker!!! the reform is coming so deal with it! smack it!!!"

I would oppose any reform that that does not apply to our elected politicians. right now they get free life time medical. Let them vote on one that they themselves must buy into.

Then we will have a real plan with equality for all.

Live Long and Prosper,

Vicekid

 

[thomas1023]

Boy, government helthcare for everyone...that sounds great!!! In fact, it makes me want to sing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO2eh6f5Go0

But seriously, if it is anything like HR 3200, you got to be kidding....the deficits only quadrupled since Obama's taken office. Let's see, we have the government have direct access to our bank accounts, IRS shares our files with some yet unknown government agency (to see if you qualify), and, of course, the rich will pay for it all. There aint enough money! And thats less than half a page of 1,300 pages.

Our 'stimulus' package was a wish list of local, county, and state projects for what...$700-$800 billion?!? and only about 10% has been spent yet? Gee, if you wanted to used that much money to stimulate the economy, wouldn't it make since to get rid of income tax, payroll tax, medicare tax and corporate tax for 6 months?!? Talk about an economic stimulation!!! But, that would involve people having the power to decide where to spend their money, and, how did one of the politicans put it, if people were given money through tax cuts, they may not spend it correctly. See, government knows how to spend your money better than you and knows what you 'need'.

I guess with all of these government ways to 'help' us, I hear nothing but a government solution and nothing whatsoever to do with the free market. But, maybe I'm just not embracing 'change I can believe in'!!!

 

[tightywhitieboy]

Boy, government helthcare for everyone...that sounds great!!! In fact, it makes me want to sing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO2eh6f5Go0

But seriously, if it is anything like HR 3200, you got to be kidding....the deficits only quadrupled since Obama's taken office. Let's see, we have the government have direct access to our bank accounts, IRS shares our files with some yet unknown government agency (to see if you qualify), and, of course, the rich will pay for it all. There aint enough money! And thats less than half a page of 1,300 pages.

Our 'stimulus' package was a wish list of local, county, and state projects for what...$700-$800 billion?!? and only about 10% has been spent yet? Gee, if you wanted to used that much money to stimulate the economy, wouldn't it make since to get rid of income tax, payroll tax, medicare tax and corporate tax for 6 months?!? Talk about an economic stimulation!!! But, that would involve people having the power to decide where to spend their money, and, how did on of the politicans put it, if people were given money through tax cuts, they may not spend it correctly. See, government knows how to spend your money better than you and knows what you 'need'.

I guess with all of these government ways to 'help' us, I hear nothing but a government solution and nothing whatsoever to do with the free market. But, maybe I'm just not embracing 'change I can believe in'!!!

sorry, but if you thing the government disengaging itself from the free market and letting the free market work itself out would lead to anything positive, you are way too idealistic, just in a different way from us that believe in the change Obama spoke aobut during his campaign. the government can't be trusted anymore than the free market, but at least government officials can be voted in or out of office and even impeached if necessary.

and as far as insurance companies in the free market? no one should be profiting on people's illnesses while do nothing to actually help them. everyone should have the right to get treated when sick or injured and it shouldn't matter how much money they have. if that means taxes pick up the tab and the richest 1% pay more into, so be it. no one should be denied the health care the need and leaving up to the free market isn't going to accomplish that.

 

[thomas1023]

sorry, but if you thing the government disengaging itself from the free market and letting the free market work itself out would lead to anything positive, you are way too idealistic, just in a different way from us that believe in the change Obama spoke aobut during his campaign. the government can't be trusted anymore than the free market, but at least government officials can be voted in or out of office and even impeached if necessary.

and as far as insurance companies in the free market? no one should be profiting on people's illnesses while do nothing to actually help them. everyone should have the right to get treated when sick or injured and it shouldn't matter how much money they have. if that means taxes pick up the tab and the richest 1% pay more into, so be it. no one should be denied the health care the need and leaving up to the free market isn't going to accomplish that.

I'm not saying the free market does not need restraints, which it does by the laws passed on the state and federal level, but, to put my life in the hands of the federal government is insanity. I'll use the same old arguements (which are true) of the Post Office - broke, Social Security - broke, Medicare - broke! With the bailouts started with Bush and then the 'stimulus' package by Obama, the debt is getting way too high. I think in the next year or so, inflation is going to sky rocket. And now, the government wants to run 1/6 of our economy?!? They'll drive it into the ground!

Though it may be idealistic, I'll take the free market over the federal government any day of the week. For instance, just this week, I saw a women in Califoria talking at a Town Hall Meeting. She was a small business owner and said there was no way she could charge outragous profits because she has competition (to keep her 'honest'). However, due to all the laws and regulations in California, there are only 6 (out of our nations 3,000) insurance companies which can sell in California! I much rather have a choice of 3,000 than 6 and more than likely could find a better price for my insurance coverage. But the regulations on what the State thinks every individual 'should' have for their coverage drives up the costs. I also heard this week one state has hair implants mandated?!? Again, insanity!!! Hence the constant call for being able to buy insurance across State lines (like car insurance). Competition generally brings prices down!!!

In the same vein, several decades ago, there were wage controls. So, companies attempting to entice employees to choose them, started to offer healthcare. In return, the corporations got tax dedutions for paying for part of the insurance. Small businesses do not have that luxury and need to pay 'out of pocket'. So, I say eliminate the tax deduction for corporations and those which are ethical would have as part of their pay to you an amount of money set aside for you to buy insurance. Now, you have tens of millions of 'consumers' wanting a 'product'. Whose going to offer 'me' the best deal for the 'services' I want?

Thirdly, instead of having an HMO type coverage, have coverage for major medical. I know when I got married 15 years ago, I was making a little over $15K. I met with an insurance salesman and got quotes for coverage with a $5K - $10K deductable and $1M coverage for $20-$30 / month. Even I could afford that. If you add in some sort of taxed deferred medical savings account and put say 5% or so of your pay into it, you could use this (CASH) to go to the Dr. Again, if now you have millions of people with cash going to the Dr, you could shop around and maybe find a deal. Same would apply to any tests you may need. Let the free market work to bring the prices down.

I also would disagree with people (insurance companies) not profiting off of 'illness'. I know companies profit every time I purchase food. I need that to be healthy, should the government pay for that also?!? We in the US have the best health care in the world. Part of the reason is that companies take those profits and develope new drugs, devices, procedures, etc which help prolong our lives. If I got cancer (take you choice of which kind), I'd much rather be treated here than in Canada or England whose survival rates are lower than ours in most forms of cancer and heart disease. When the profit motive is removed, any and all innovation in the medical field will stop.

Finally, I do not have too much problem with giving those who do not earn enough to receive some kind of tax credit so they can go out and purchase health insurance.

If we could get though Congress some of the above, there should be no reason why anyone wouldn't have the health coverage they need at affordable prices. I'll take take my idealogical belief in the free market than any trust I would have in the Federal Govenment any day!!!

 

[thomas1023]

Here's some fun to look at and do some math to look at what percent of our buget is being spent on what. For instance, the interest on the debt ($332B) as a percent of total tax revenue ($1,458B) is about 23%. Medicare/Medicade ($435B) is about 30%. Social Security ($449B) is about 31%. Defence is about 38%. These four items only bring us $315B over budget. (Spent 121% of our current income.)

Our current debt of $2,770B vs current tax revenue of $1,448 is only over budget by $1,312B.

What ever you do, don't look at our unfunded mandates (Social Security, Medicare, etc)!!!!

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

[tightywhitieboy]

Here's some fun to look at and do some math to look at what percent of our buget is being spent on what. For instance, the interest on the debt ($332B) as a percent of total tax revenue ($1,458B) is about 23%. Medicare/Medicade ($435B) is about 30%. Social Security ($449B) is about 31%. Defence is about 38%. These four items only bring us $315B over budget. (Spent 121% of our current income.)

Our current debt of $2,770B vs current tax revenue of $1,448 is only over budget by $1,312B.

What ever you do, don't look at our unfunded mandates (Social Security, Medicare, etc)!!!!

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

i'll get back to you on most of your points. it was a long post!!! kudos to that! good debate going on!

but one major misconception is that the US as the best healthcare in the world. we don't. we rank in the 30s. england is only #18 i believe, and france i'm pretty sure takes the #1 slot.

 

[tampa24]

You know I love you Thomas but I do have to point out something in the logic of your arguments in favor of the free markets and the private sector. Why did we have TARP and the rest of the budget busting Stimulus Package? Because white collar criminals did more damage to the US and world economy than an army of muggers. They stashed money in offshore accounts and made terribly risky bets with other people's money. These CEO's and CFO's and other criminally negligent accountants should be put in prison. They came running to the government and extorted that money from us to save themselves and their companies. They wanted (and arrogantly expected) government to come to their rescue when they fucked up and nearly burnt down the whole financial house. Please excuse my language. But we have spent TRILLIONS of dollars that we did not have in order to bail them out from the inevitable repercussions of their own out of control greed and criminality.

Now they want to rail against big bad evil government when it suits their profit motives. All these platitudes about the efficiency of the private sector in delivering quality health care are ringing pretty hollow to me right now. Bunch of hypocrites! I'm not saying that government is the answer to every problem. Far from it. But I AM saying I don't trust the private sector either after what we have just gone through.

 

[slimvintage]

You know I love you Thomas but I do have to point out something in the logic of your arguments in favor of the free markets and the private sector. Why did we have TARP and the rest of the budget busting Stimulus Package? Because white collar criminals did more damage to the US and world economy than an army of muggers. They stashed money in offshore accounts and made terribly risky bets with other people's money. These CEO's and CFO's and other criminally negligent accountants should be put in prison. They came running to the government and extorted that money from us to save themselves and their companies. They wanted (and arrogantly expected) government to come to their rescue when they fucked up and nearly burnt down the whole financial house. Please excuse my language. But we have spent TRILLIONS of dollars that we did not have in order to bail them out from the inevitable repercussions of their own out of control greed and criminality.

Now they want to rail against big bad evil government when it suits their profit motives. All these platitudes about the efficiency of the private sector in delivering quality health care are ringing pretty hollow to me right now. Bunch of hypocrites! I'm not saying that government is the answer to every problem. Far from it. But I AM saying I don't trust the private sector either after what we have just gone through.

Not only that, but the entire denigrating thrust of the right in this whole argument, couched by them in purely monetary terms, misses the point completely. It's actually not a question of what it costs, it's finally a question of what's right, what's civilized and what's humane. The fact that Obamacare will be cost-effective in the long run, and provide coverage for millions more, shouldn't even be crucial to the argument.

As far as future debt is concerned (burdening our grandchildren et cetera), either you believe that reform can truly save money, or you seek solace in the fact that most of the debt that the right whines piously and unconvincingly about, is "fictitious" anyway, and can be healthily lived with on an ongoing basis.

The right wing of American politics is useful for some things. Their great dilemma right now is that they are entirely beside the point at this juncture in the history of US two party politics. The most noble thing they could do is to move over and let the left solve this in humane terms as the social problem that it is, and wait their turn.

 

[thomas1023]

You know I love you Thomas but I do have to point out something in the logic of your arguments in favor of the free markets and the private sector. Why did we have TARP and the rest of the budget busting Stimulus Package? Because white collar criminals did more damage to the US and world economy than an army of muggers. They stashed money in offshore accounts and made terribly risky bets with other people's money. These CEO's and CFO's and other criminally negligent accountants should be put in prison. They came running to the government and extorted that money from us to save themselves and their companies. They wanted (and arrogantly expected) government to come to their rescue when they fucked up and nearly burnt down the whole financial house. Please excuse my language. But we have spent TRILLIONS of dollars that we did not have in order to bail them out from the inevitable repercussions of their own out of control greed and criminality.

Now they want to rail against big bad evil government when it suits their profit motives. All these platitudes about the efficiency of the private sector in delivering quality health care are ringing pretty hollow to me right now. Bunch of hypocrites! I'm not saying that government is the answer to every problem. Far from it. But I AM saying I don't trust the private sector either after what we have just gone through.

Tampa - You know I love you too!

First, if anyone has broken the law, then I say let them share a cell for 150 years with Bernie Madoff!!!

Second, I'v never been a huge fan of Bush. Besides tax cuts and Supreme Court nominations, there ain't much in which I would have agreement. Most 'conservatives' I know feel the same.

I'll try to give you a 'conservative' view (though I'm really Libertarian) on some of these issues.

Mortgage / Real Estate Meltdown

Years ago, you may remember there was a problem with loans being given to many poor / minority neighborhoods. This often was referred to as 'Red Lining' as you could almost draw a 'red line' on a map around a neighborhood in which no loans were being made. This of course brough out charges of 'racism' and there were protest made by community organizations (think ACORN). The pressure was on to have banks lend money to those who were 'disadvantaged'. Meanwhile, Fanny and Freddy were originally created to help the 'disadvantaged' with home loans. Banks would not lend in these areas due to the risk until Fanny (think Federal Government) would guarentee the loans. After this, all kinds of loan products were created which made it so easy to get a loan, as it was guarenteed by the government. Over time, there were so many of these kind of 'loans' out there, that they were being 'packaged' in portfolios by the banks and were being traded. Meanwhile, Fanny (like any other government program) had grown so they now own have over 1/2 of all of the mortgages. All we needed now was something like a recession. When that came, all of the people who never should have been given a loan in the first place started defaulting. Therefore, all of those companies which had purchase these loans now had portfolios worth nothing and started going under.

So, if you think with common sense, why would you ever give a loan to someone who you don't even need to verify income!?! Banks would never have done this on their own, but do to the pressures from all of the 'protests' and from the government (by guarenteeing the loans), they conceeded. Part of their protection was because Fanny (think Federal Government) was guarenteeing these loans. As with most liberal ideas, it feels so good because you are 'helping' people, but the results are generally disaterous.

Tarp / Corporate Bailouts

One of the worst mistakes ever!!! Though it started under Bush, Obama has taken government intrusion in the private sector to a new level. Sorry, but in a free market, you either succeed or fail! When I hear that a company is 'too big to fail', I think horse squeeze! Do you not think a government can't be too big to fail? We now have precidence where the Federal Government (Executive Branch) can fire a CEO of a company (GM)?!? Then choose the successor?!? Then replace over half the Board?!?

With GM, it was going to go bankrupt, which isn't necessarly a bad thing. Instead, all of the above happened before they went into bankrupcy. So, instead of being able to renegociate Labor Contracts (labor being the highest cost in producing an automobile) to make us more competive, over half the board is now Union with a government appointed CEO. So, now we have a company which is unable to make the changes needed to make it more competitive with one which is protecting one of the government's (Democrat's) largest support organizations (Unions).

I guess, in summary, I see the government's interference in the free market as the problem, not the free market itself! This was the beauty of our founding fathers as they knew government was 'a necesary evil' and therefore should be limited. The federal government was to protect our freedoms (think first 10 admendments), not provide for every 'need' for everyone.

 

[tampa24]

I agree with almost all that you said there above with a few different takes. You are quite right about the government pressuring Fannie and Freddy to give mortgages to people who could never ever afford them. That did happen.

I'm a liberal myself in my politics but I'm a centrist liberal. I think that many conservative principles are valid and sound, provided that they are adhered to in a responsible manner. I'm upset with the Republican party though for subjecting us to nearly a decade of Bush, Iraq, Katrina, the financial meltdown, etc. If they had practiced what they preached we wouldn't be swimming in all this debt.

They picked and chose which conservative principles to follow and managed to give us some of the worst combinations possible. Fiscal discipline went out the window. Disdain for government regulation of financial services became all the rage... to disastrous effect. Conservative aversion for "nation building" went out the window and then we were stuck in the cesspool of Iraq. Obviously I could go on with more examples of where they selectively followed and ignored their own core principles to the detriment of the country.

I have little respect for Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, etc. Glen beck and his 9-12 email campaign (along with the Hillsborough (county) Republican party phone banks were the ones who organized the angry mobs who stormed the town hall meeting on health care in Tampa last month. The protesters there told the St. Pete Times that Glen Beck's 9-12 email system alerted them to the meetings as well as direct automated calls from the local Republican party. The national Republican party was so pleased with their results in Tampa that they rolled out the "spontaneous" angry mobs all over the country.

This kind of behavior is what passes as grownup political discourse nowadays. Joe Wilson heckling the president in the halls of Congress figured he'd be considered a hero. He figured that since the right apparently fully approves of all the tactics being used at the town hall meetings that the Capitol Building was fair game also. Why not hurl obscenities and insults at ANY political figure you disagree with at ANY time in ANY setting?

Back to my point about the private sector though. When someone uses the examples of government agencies that don't work well or are broke financially...Postal Service, Medicare, etc...I also keep in mind just how many private sector companies are in the same shape. Without massive government intervention many of the free market private sector companies would be bankrupt and out of business themselves right now.

AIG bailed out. Leahman Brothers bankrupt and out of business, Citibank bailed out, GM bailed out and still bankrupt, Merryl Lynch bankrupt and bought out, etc, etc... The free market let us all down in a huge way. And if indeed the free market is at risk of being taken over by government whose fault is that? The free market allowed itself to fall into this vulnerable position in the first place. Government did not create this crisis. The greed of a select few in the free market/private sector did.

Can the private sector USUALLY run a company or program better than government? Yes. But just as during the Great Depression, people's confidence in the free market is badly shaken. It is hardly a paragon of efficiency, profitabilty, ethical standards or reliabilty right now.

 

[thomas1023]

Tampa -

Some great points!!!

(I'll start up by saying I'm quite upset as I was writing a quote/reply to Slim and when it was finished, it all disappeard I'm assuming because you posted. I need to contact someone in technical support to see if this is a 'bug' in the system. I'll attmept to incorporate some of my points to Slim in your response.)

I was a Republican, but under Clinton, changed to Libertarian (fiscally conservative and socially liberal). By the way, I hear the Independent Party is the fastest growing party in our country. No one trusts either party!!!

As for Bush, no conservative I know had liked him. The only things which which I agreed with were tax cuts and Supreme Court nominations.

Just to expand on one small point at the beginning of you note regarding Katrina. The Federal Governement was never meant to be a 'first' responder, that was to be the Local and State Governemnt (which had been Democrat for decades). If you remember, the first relief effort was from the dreaded 'Wal Mart' who had truckloads of supplies to help (damn that dreaded free market!). However, due to the government bureauoracies in place, there was no distribution of supplies for days.

I guess I would also disagree with your point on regulations for banks going out the window. If it comes to money, and especially banks, there are 10's or 100's of thousands of pages of government regulations (laws) (Remember Sarbans/Oxley after Enron?). I still think it was due to government that the banks were made to make 'unsecured' loans which in large part lead to the mortgage meltdown.

Rush and Glenn - I must be one of those 'mind numb robots' of the 'right'. I've been listening to Rush for 15 + years. It may be a slanted view of whatever the hot topics are, but almost always, it is listening to quotes from various sources first (think: the facts), and then followed by opinion. Though, now, for radio talk shows, I much prefer Neal Boortz (co-author of The Fair Tax book and a Libertarian). I only started watching Glenn Beck for a couple of months, but love the information I get from his TV show. After a couple of days of listening to him, I saw, and thankfully DVRed him reading a letter from Janet Contraras - 'An open letter to Congress'. If you really want to know the sentiments behind what I think many of the protesters / Tea Baggers are feeling, it is this. Take 10-12 minutes to listen to Glenn reading this letter, and you may have a better insight into the feelings and frustrations that people are attempt to express in those town hall meetings (it's in two parts with a little bit of overlap):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUPzDEliIi0&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imirs4Rp9Sk&feature=related

I think in many ways, this may actually be in synch with much of what you (hoepfully) feel also.

As a point, one of the items was 'Acorn not taking part in the 2010 census'. Well, thankfully, this past weekend, the Census Bureau announced that Acorn would not help out in the 2010 census. In addition to the 15 (give or take) states which are investigating Acorn for voter registration fraud, not sure if you have heard of the 'secret' tapes of how they help out in securing home loans to a 'pimp' and 'hooker' who want to import under age 'hookers' from latain america (got to love those community organizations!!!) Of course, we still need to see about the $8 1/2 Billion in grants they are now receiving from the federal government. I'll feel that much of this is actually due to Glenn Beck and those independents which have similar views.

Just a quick aside to your point about failing busnesses, that is the main point I've been attempting to make. If you can't make it, the recourse is to actually go into banruptcy, reorganize, and come out a leaner company which can compete. If you can't make it, there will be always someone there to be able to fill the gap which you left behind. Having the government come in and attempt to choose 'winners an loosers' is ludicris and should be stopped!!!

 

[tampa24]

Just a quick aside to your point about failing busnesses, that is the main point I've been attempting to make. If you can't make it, the recourse is to actually go into banruptcy, reorganize, and come out a leaner company which can compete. If you can't make it, there will be always someone there to be able to fill the gap which you left behind. Having the government come in and attempt to choose 'winners an loosers' is ludicris and should be stopped!!!

Yeah. If some of these companies are allowed to fail it teaches the rest of the industry a lesson. For instance that there are consequences to poor management and unethical business practices. And that extreme risk taking with other people's money is very dangerous. And could leave you with no job, or in prison, or both.

 

[thomas1023]

Yeah. If some of these companies are allowed to fail it teaches the rest of the industry a lesson. For instance that there are consequences to poor management and unethical business practices. And that extreme risk taking with other people's money is very dangerous. And could leave you with no job, or in prison, or both.

Tampa - It only took pages of writing, but we do agree on something!!!

 

[tampa24]

Tampa - It only took pages of writing, but we do agree on something!!!

LOL

 

[tim114]

I enjoyed reading all of your thinking on the subject. I want to address something a bit broader than just health care. I think we need a 911 style investigation into what nearly brought down the world's financial system. I think we need to know what happened and what caused it. I don't believe our elected officials from either side. Pure politics has gotten totally out of hand in this country. A commission to investigate this mess would have to be composed of people that are not politically connected if that is possible.

I think that an honest conclusion that said commission should come up with is that our government is to blame for most of it. The Fed pumped way too much money into the system and kept interest rates too low for too long. Then the government got involved in social engineering, i.e. more people should be homeowners. The government pushed for lower lending standards and got them. A lot of this easy money flowed into housing, forcing prices up and creating a bubble. I watched as prices kept going up and up and it looked like a bubble to me. However, there were few warning signs from our elected officials. In fact, everything was just fine, until it wasn't. This is what I believe our government did.

Then we come to what our government didn't do. Republicans do not like regulation, but it seems Democrats went along with the rollback also. I am talking of regulation regarding Wall Street. I think it got rolled back so much that Wall Street became a gaming casino. The leverage was dangerous. The Credit Default Swaps, not sure exactly how they work, were unregulated. I believe Wall Street got its way by paying for it (think K Street). Sometimes we have the best system of government that money can buy. Then Wall Street got a $700 billion bailout to save it from it own stupidity and the stupidity of the federal government.

And all I am getting is smoke blown up my arse. I think our politicians think we are really, really stupid. Obama is going to insure 30 million more people without costing me a dime. How? By making the system more efficient and getting rid of the fraud. OK, lets do that first and see what the savings are. Start in January 2010 and address that problem and then let me know what the savings are.

I live in New Jersey. We have a problem; the solution, higher taxes. Problem solved. Few years later, we have a problem; solution, higher taxes. Over and over.

Enough for tonite. I am on a letter writing campaign for all the good it will do. But I do think it is time that we let our elected officials know that they are working for the good of the nation, all of us, not just the people that bought them.

 

[Jayman01]

I am just waiting to see what the final legislation will be. Do we need to go buy health care somewhere. What is the income eligibility for free health care. Will there be free health care? Will we get needed healthcare services. Will we be restricted to services under some health care plans?: