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Russia & Ukraine War

On another issue that has been discussed only briefly in the news and in banter among people in the know... This goes to why Putin would have launched the war without being aware of the true state of readiness of his army. Putin may be deluded by delusions of grandeur and an overestimation of the greatness and wealth of the country in its present state. Sure. He nursed all of these outrageous grudges and grievances against Ukraine. He probably started to believe his own propaganda that any country that wouldn't joyfully want to be a puppet state of Russia was probably being run by fascists, Nazis and drug addicts.

While he has certainly made some stupid and irrational decisions, because he has too much power and he's surrounded by sycophants... I don't believe that he is a stupid person. So why did he delude himself into thinking that his army could launch a successful Blitzkrieg against a large country like Ukraine, and achieve victory in 2 or 3 days? And then capture large swaths of the country to add to the borders of Russia itself within a week or so?

Maybe that's because part of his misunderstanding of the Russian army's true capabilities is because he's been lied to about the combat readiness of the country's military for many, many years. Putin made the modernization and renewed funding for the military a signature issue of his from the time he came to power. He knew that after the fall of the Soviet Union that the Russian military was in a sorry and weakened state. So over the last 22 years he's been in power he has made it a personal mission to pour the equivalent of many billions of dollars into the military's budget. After all, a strong modern military that can be perceived abroad as having similar capabilities to that of the United States, along with a large nuclear stockpile, is the only real claim to superpower status that Russia has. It's a national priority to be perceived as strong.

So we get to the fact that Russia and its society is riddled with rampant corruption. Putin himself is on the take. There are suggestions that he could secretly be the wealthiest man in the world. Some estimates put his hidden wealth at north of $200 billion.

Russian society has a whole subculture of paying bribes for seemingly every little thing and service you want done. So bribes, "tips", kickbacks, embezzlement and even outright theft of funds is ingrained as just an accepted part of the culture. Then you put a pot of money in the billions of dollars every year into the hands of people living in that society. So you automatically lose a high percentage of that money to theft and corruption. The government accountants have a finger in the pie. The generals who get to spend that money on the military have a finger in the pie. And it goes all the way down the line from the top down. If you're some battalion commander and you're told on paper that you are to be receiving 50 brand new planes, and when they arrive you know you have only 20... What are you to do? The first honest person in the accounting process that a financial or inventory discrepancy lands on is highly discouraged (under threat from the thieves of higher rank above him) to lie and sign off on the doctored billing and/or the shady inventory count.

Another analyst on tv made the same point recently. He said that in Russia you may have a hypothetical beginning contract for a company to build 150 tanks. A huge pile of money is on the table to pay for this. But by the time the contract and assembly has gone through the whole process it may turn out that only 50 tanks were built. But on paper, the contract was completely fulfilled by all, and the company delivered 150 tanks.

So Putin himself has been lied to and misled for decades about the true strength in materiel, along with the combat readiness of his armed forces. The generals would never dare tell him that probably 30% or more of the miliary budget was being stolen regularly by err...the generals themselves...and other dirty hands on down the line of the procurement processes.

To use a car analogy, Putin knew when he came to power in 1999 that with his army and armed forces after the Soviet collapse he had something close to an Edsel. He knew he would have to throw some serious money at it to build it back up. So he did and he has. Every year. Twenty two years later he's been told and he believes that the days of the Edsel are long gone, and he now has something closer to a Maserati or a Mercedes. So he feels very confident in taking it for a test drive. He fully expects to be very impressed. Then reality hits. He finds to his horror that instead of a Maserati, he has a Chevy.

Now a Chevy can eventually get you to where you what to go. Eventually. But its equivalent militarily is not going to do supernatural things on the battlefield and bring you victory in days or even a couple weeks. So Putin is stuck with an unexpectedly long war in Ukraine that could possibly drag on for months or years. It was a huge miscalculation in military terms, even setting aside how he deluded himself into thinking that Ukrainians would welcome the Russians as saviors and liberators. Plus again, a prolonged war with 60% (or more) of its standing army bogged down in Ukraine, is not something Russia can afford. They'll go broke.
 
That is all true of Putin but also of most all dictators who on to absolute power for too long. Case in point turn to Nasser & Sadat in Egypt or the many despots that peppered our neighbor to the south or Franco in Spain. The one thing they all have in common is getting overthrown, usually paying with their life
 
This is irrelevant to this thread, but thank you Br. I am fine. I glance at all discussion threads but unless I have something which I consider worthwhile to contribute I will refrain from commenting. As you told me earlier this week, the forum has changed and I’ve decided to limit my posting. But rest assured I am still here. Thank you for your concern.

I'm glad to know you're doing okay too. :)
 
Just read that Russia had another bad day on the ground yesterday with Ukraine retaking over 75 miles of territory and losing many more soldiers and tanks. Glory to Ukraine!
 
Just read that Russia had another bad day on the ground yesterday with Ukraine retaking over 75 miles of territory and losing many more soldiers and tanks. Glory to Ukraine!

Glory to the heroes!
 
Chris Hayes referred to this article on his show this evening and specifically quoted the portion below that I have highlighted in red. All colored italics and enlargement of quotes are my own. For those following this thread, I think you'll find this interesting.



*************************************************************************

New York Times



As Russian Troop Deaths Climb, Morale Becomes an Issue, Officials Say
More than 7,000 Russian troops have been killed in less than three weeks of fighting, according to conservative U.S. estimates.


By Helene Cooper, Julian E. Barnes and Eric Schmitt
March 16, 2022


WASHINGTON — In 36 days of fighting on Iwo Jima during World War II, nearly 7,000 Marines were killed. Now, 20 days after President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia invaded Ukraine, his military has already lost more soldiers, according to American intelligence estimates.

The conservative side of the estimate, at more than 7,000 Russian troop deaths, is greater than the number of American troops killed over 20 years in Iraq and Afghanistan combined.

It is a staggering number amassed in just three weeks of fighting, American officials say, with implications for the combat effectiveness of Russian units, including soldiers in tank formations. Pentagon officials say a 10 percent casualty rate, including dead and wounded, for a single unit renders it unable to carry out combat-related tasks.

With more than 150,000 Russian troops now involved in the war in Ukraine, Russian casualties, when including the estimated 14,000 to 21,000 injured, are near that level. And the Russian military has also lost at least three generals in the fight, according to Ukrainian, NATO and Russian officials.

Pentagon officials say that a high, and rising, number of war dead can destroy the will to continue fighting. The result, they say, has shown up in intelligence reports that senior officials in the Biden administration read every day: One recent report focused on low morale among Russian troops and described soldiers just parking their vehicles and walking off into the woods.

The American officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss operational matters, caution that their numbers of Russian troop deaths are inexact, compiled through analysis of the news media, Ukrainian figures (which tend to be high, with the latest at 13,500), Russian figures (which tend to be low, with the latest at 498), satellite imagery and careful perusal of video images of Russian tanks and troops that come under fire.

American military and intelligence officials know, for instance, how many troops are usually in a tank, and can extrapolate from that the number of casualties when an armored vehicle is hit by, say, a Javelin anti-tank missile.

The high rate of casualties goes far to explain why Russia’s much-vaunted force has remained largely stalled outside of Kyiv, Ukraine’s capital.

“Losses like this affect morale and unit cohesion, especially since these soldiers don’t understand why they’re fighting,” said Evelyn Farkas, the top Pentagon official for Russia and Ukraine during the Obama administration. “Your overall situational awareness decreases. Someone’s got to drive, someone’s got to shoot.”

But, she added, “that’s just the land forces.” With Russian ground forces in disarray, Mr. Putin has increasingly looked to the skies to attack Ukrainian cities, residential buildings, hospitals and even schools. That aerial bombardment, officials say, has helped camouflage the Russian military’s poor performance on the ground. President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine said this week that an estimated 1,300 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed in the war.

Signs of Russia’s challenges abound. Late last week, Russian news sources reported that Mr. Putin had put two of his top intelligence officials under house arrest. The officials, who run the Fifth Service of Russia’s main intelligence service, the FSB, were interrogated for providing poor intelligence ahead of the invasion, according to Andrei Soldatov, a Russian security services expert.

“They were in charge of providing political intelligence and cultivating networks of support in Ukraine,” Mr. Soldatov said in an interview. “They told Putin what he wanted to hear” about how the invasion would progress.

Russians themselves may be hearing only what Mr. Putin wants them to hear about his “operation” in Ukraine, which he refuses to call a war or an invasion. Since it began, he has exerted iron control over the news outlets in Russia; state media is not publicizing most casualties, and has minimized the destruction.

But some Russians have access to virtual private networks (VPNs) and are able to get news from the West.

“I don’t believe he can wall off, indefinitely, Russians from the truth,” William J. Burns, the C.I.A. director, told the Senate last Thursday. “Especially as realities began to puncture that bubble, the realities of killed and wounded coming home, and the increasing number, the realities of the economic consequences for ordinary Russians, the realities of the horrific scenes of hospitals and schools being bombed next door in Ukraine, and of civilian casualties there as well.”


****************************************


Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/us/politics/russia-troop-deaths.html
 
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Chris Hayes referred to this article on his show this evening and specifically quoted the portion below that I have highlighted in red. All colored italics and enlargement of quotes are my own. For those following this thread, I think you'll find this interesting.



*************************************************************************

New York Times



As Russian Troop Deaths Climb, Morale Becomes an Issue, Officials Say
More than 7,000 Russian troops have been killed in less than three weeks of fighting, according to conservative U.S. estimates.


By Helene Cooper, Julian E. Barnes and Eric Schmitt
March 16, 2022


WASHINGTON — In 36 days of fighting on Iwo Jima during World War II, nearly 7,000 Marines were killed. Now, 20 days after President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia invaded Ukraine, his military has already lost more soldiers, according to American intelligence estimates.

The conservative side of the estimate, at more than 7,000 Russian troop deaths, is greater than the number of American troops killed over 20 years in Iraq and Afghanistan combined.

It is a staggering number amassed in just three weeks of fighting, American officials say, with implications for the combat effectiveness of Russian units, including soldiers in tank formations. Pentagon officials say a 10 percent casualty rate, including dead and wounded, for a single unit renders it unable to carry out combat-related tasks.

With more than 150,000 Russian troops now involved in the war in Ukraine, Russian casualties, when including the estimated 14,000 to 21,000 injured, are near that level. And the Russian military has also lost at least three generals in the fight, according to Ukrainian, NATO and Russian officials.

Pentagon officials say that a high, and rising, number of war dead can destroy the will to continue fighting. The result, they say, has shown up in intelligence reports that senior officials in the Biden administration read every day: One recent report focused on low morale among Russian troops and described soldiers just parking their vehicles and walking off into the woods.

The American officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss operational matters, caution that their numbers of Russian troop deaths are inexact, compiled through analysis of the news media, Ukrainian figures (which tend to be high, with the latest at 13,500), Russian figures (which tend to be low, with the latest at 498), satellite imagery and careful perusal of video images of Russian tanks and troops that come under fire.

American military and intelligence officials know, for instance, how many troops are usually in a tank, and can extrapolate from that the number of casualties when an armored vehicle is hit by, say, a Javelin anti-tank missile.

The high rate of casualties goes far to explain why Russia’s much-vaunted force has remained largely stalled outside of Kyiv, Ukraine’s capital.

“Losses like this affect morale and unit cohesion, especially since these soldiers don’t understand why they’re fighting,” said Evelyn Farkas, the top Pentagon official for Russia and Ukraine during the Obama administration. “Your overall situational awareness decreases. Someone’s got to drive, someone’s got to shoot.”

But, she added, “that’s just the land forces.” With Russian ground forces in disarray, Mr. Putin has increasingly looked to the skies to attack Ukrainian cities, residential buildings, hospitals and even schools. That aerial bombardment, officials say, has helped camouflage the Russian military’s poor performance on the ground. President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine said this week that an estimated 1,300 Ukrainian soldiers had been killed in the war.

Signs of Russia’s challenges abound. Late last week, Russian news sources reported that Mr. Putin had put two of his top intelligence officials under house arrest. The officials, who run the Fifth Service of Russia’s main intelligence service, the FSB, were interrogated for providing poor intelligence ahead of the invasion, according to Andrei Soldatov, a Russian security services expert.

“They were in charge of providing political intelligence and cultivating networks of support in Ukraine,” Mr. Soldatov said in an interview. “They told Putin what he wanted to hear” about how the invasion would progress.

Russians themselves may be hearing only what Mr. Putin wants them to hear about his “operation” in Ukraine, which he refuses to call a war or an invasion. Since it began, he has exerted iron control over the news outlets in Russia; state media is not publicizing most casualties, and has minimized the destruction.

But some Russians have access to virtual private networks (VPNs) and are able to get news from the West.

“I don’t believe he can wall off, indefinitely, Russians from the truth,” William J. Burns, the C.I.A. director, told the Senate last Thursday. “Especially as realities began to puncture that bubble, the realities of killed and wounded coming home, and the increasing number, the realities of the economic consequences for ordinary Russians, the realities of the horrific scenes of hospitals and schools being bombed next door in Ukraine, and of civilian casualties there as well.”


****************************************


Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/16/us/politics/russia-troop-deaths.html

This was one of the articles I was referring to in my prior posts. Also Putin needs to manufacture a new set of lies as the Ukrainian President is the perfect foil to destroy Putin's lies that Ukraine is a Nazi state when Israel and Ukraine are the only two countries in the world to have both Jewish Presidents and Prime Ministers and Ukraine allegedly persecuting Russian speakers when President Zelinskyy was elected as a Russian speaker who then had to learn Ukrainian, and he most certainly was not persecuting himself and his fellow Russian speakers. Many Russians have a saying that "there is only one country in the world where Russians can speak freely, and that country is not Russia but Ukraine!"
 
And the worst news outside of the horrors inflicted was Russia praising Fox News yet again yesterday.
 
This was one of the articles I was referring to in my prior posts. Also Putin needs to manufacture a new set of lies as the Ukrainian President is the perfect foil to destroy Putin's lies that Ukraine is a Nazi state when Israel and Ukraine are the only two countries in the world to have both Jewish Presidents and Prime Ministers and Ukraine allegedly persecuting Russian speakers when President Zelinskyy was elected as a Russian speaker who then had to learn Ukrainian, and he most certainly was not persecuting himself and his fellow Russian speakers. Many Russians have a saying that "there is only one country in the world where Russians can speak freely, and that country is not Russia but Ukraine!"

Well said, KG.
 
And the worst news outside of the horrors inflicted was Russia praising Fox News yet again yesterday.
Yeah. Tucker Carlson has sunk even lower in my opinion of him than I would have thought possible.
 
It is no surprise as we have heard & seen this often during this atrocious war/
 
Here is a portion of recent comments from British Prime Minister Boris Johnson.

(All colored highlighting of quotes or enlargement of text is my own.)

It has an echo of Churchill's "Iron Curtain" speech and almost another call for the Western strategy of Cold War "Containment".

************************************************************************


The Telegraph

Vladimir Putin in 'total panic' about revolution in Moscow, says Boris Johnson

Marcus Parekh
Sat, March 19, 2022, 4:56 AM


Vladimir Putin is in a "total panic" about the prospect of a revolution in Moscow, Boris Johnson has said.

"He has been in a total panic about a so-called colour revolution in Moscow itself and that is why he is trying so brutally to snuff out the flame of freedom in Ukraine and that's why it is so vital that he fails," Mr Johnson said.

"A victorious Putin will not stop in Ukraine, and the end of freedom in Ukraine will mean the extinction of any hope of freedom in Georgia and then Moldova, it will mean the beginning of a new age of intimidation across eastern Europe from the Baltic to the Black Sea."

The Prime Minister also rejected normalising relations with Mr Putin, even after the end of his invasion of Ukraine.

"This is a turning point for the world. It's a choice between freedom and oppression," he told the Conservative spring party conference in Blackpool.

"To try to renormalise relations with Putin after this, as we did in 2014, would be to make exactly the same mistake again."


12:51 PM
Johnson describes Putin as 'a backstreet pusher'

The Prime Minister has described Putin as a "a backstreet pusher, feeding addiction, creating dependence" on Russia's gas and oil, leading to the cost of living crisis.

"Putin's war is intended to cause economic damage to the west and to benefit him," Boris Johnson told the conference.

"He knows that with every dollar increase in the price of a barrel of oil, he gets billions more in revenues from the sales of either oil and gas, and that's the tragedy of the situation.

"Now he wants to weaken the collective will to resist by pushing up the cost of living, hitting us at the pumps and in our fuel bills, so we must respond."

He said the Government must continue to do "everything they can" to help people, and also make sure there is a "strong economy and strong economic fundamentals with well-paid jobs".


*****************************************************

Source: https://www.yahoo.com/news/politics-latest-news-boris-johnson-085651405.html
 
I did see mention of it on Lawrence O'Donnell & as to Putin's thinking, he fails to understand his is a very weak economy and the damage to Russia will be far greater than anything he is capable of inflicting on the West.
 
This week Russia is hiring thousands of mercenaries from Syria to replace Russian soldiers who refuse to fight!

Mercenaries have no passion & also are easy to spot, this will not have the affects Putin wants.
 
This week Russia is hiring thousands of mercenaries from Syria to replace Russian soldiers who refuse to fight!

Mercenaries have no passion & also are easy to spot, this will not have the affects Putin wants.

Yes. That appears to be the case. It's interesting that he is not calling on his own reserves of Russian soldiers. Could that be a tell that he's finding many Russians are not gung-ho on killing Ukrainians? Mercenaries aren't cheap either. And you still have to feed them also. It seems he already has a manpower shortage if he is resorting to having to import the paid help. Could it be that they really have lost over 10,000 men so far?

Just another thought. Mercenaries may be easier to spot and draw more attention for snipers. But mercenaries can also be very ruthless. The more people they can prove they killed...the more money they make.
 
There is a biblical saying roughly put that says what you do inflict be paid by those that follows out to the hundredth generation. That will be what Putin's place in history will be.
 
There is a biblical saying roughly put that says what you do inflict be paid by those that follows out to the hundredth generation. That will be what Putin's place in history will be.

Yes. History will be the judge. And she is a fickle mistress for those who wrongly think she'll be on their side.
 
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