joninliverton
BSB Addict
How can they argue about ammendments when all these killings are going on..
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Another school shooting
- Thread starter rrhill
- Start date
mikeyank
Long time forumite
We had a very bloody Civil War in this country that ended less than 150 years ago. We very much have two America's today too, with very different philosophies and beliefs as to what is right and wrong.
What might seem simple to enact, particularly to someone not living here, is actually very controversial and there a lot of people who support the NRA very strongly. It is a much more difficult issue to get any significant changes to happen anytime soon.
THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the
time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent
misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive
clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the
Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution.
RESOLVED by the Senate and House of Representatives of the
United States of America, in Congress assembled, two thirds of both Houses
concurring, that the following Articles be proposed to the Legislatures of the
several States, as amendments to the Constitution of the United States, all, or
any of which Articles, when ratified by three fourths of the said Legislatures,
to be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of the said Constitution
Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
the high court held that the right is a personal right and not a collective right of the people.
from its founding the has been a distrust of any government. many still believe that government requires protection from the national government.
time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent
misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive
clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the
Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution.
RESOLVED by the Senate and House of Representatives of the
United States of America, in Congress assembled, two thirds of both Houses
concurring, that the following Articles be proposed to the Legislatures of the
several States, as amendments to the Constitution of the United States, all, or
any of which Articles, when ratified by three fourths of the said Legislatures,
to be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of the said Constitution
Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
the high court held that the right is a personal right and not a collective right of the people.
from its founding the has been a distrust of any government. many still believe that government requires protection from the national government.
In the days of the founding fathers, people used to shoot a musket with a 5 minutes loading period per bullet. Not comparable with semi-automatic guns that can hold a 100 bullets magazine.
In Western Europe we had to defend our freedom against Hitler till the allied forces defeated his German army. It's not an excuse in Western Europe to carry around guns nowadays.
People do hunt here! And one can practice ones sport at a shooting range. The few people that do own a gun legally, need to lock up their weapon at home in a gun vault.
In Western Europe we had to defend our freedom against Hitler till the allied forces defeated his German army. It's not an excuse in Western Europe to carry around guns nowadays.
People do hunt here! And one can practice ones sport at a shooting range. The few people that do own a gun legally, need to lock up their weapon at home in a gun vault.
Bill Maher On Gun Rights vs. Privacy: Second Amendment Isn't Under Attack, Everything Else Is
Bill Maher dressed down the gun lobby on his first "Real Time" of 2013, but not in the way you might have expected. Addressing gun huggers everywhere, Maher explained, "It's not your second amendment rights that are under attack, it's all the other ones."
According to Maher, invasion of privacy is the norm in our new "quasi-police state", and it happened while a significant chunk of the population was at home guarding their guns and the rest of us simply weren't caring (everyone except Jodie Foster, obviously).
"The only thing that still has bipartisan support in Washington is not giving a shit about privacy."
Bill Maher dressed down the gun lobby on his first "Real Time" of 2013, but not in the way you might have expected. Addressing gun huggers everywhere, Maher explained, "It's not your second amendment rights that are under attack, it's all the other ones."
According to Maher, invasion of privacy is the norm in our new "quasi-police state", and it happened while a significant chunk of the population was at home guarding their guns and the rest of us simply weren't caring (everyone except Jodie Foster, obviously).
"The only thing that still has bipartisan support in Washington is not giving a shit about privacy."
joninliverton
BSB Addict
Robert my friend. I think the lack of response from our American friends says it all. It doesn't matter how many killings there are over there - the Ammendments rule ok...
September 11th, the day of the attacks on the World Trade Center, I cried in front of the TV.
Realizing that actually people existed that planned this new low in pure hatred.
After these twenty toddlers were lined up and shot in Newtown... how can one ignore the gun problem any longer?
There are limits to the first amendment. Creating panic by a false fire alarm, like shouting "FIRE" for fun in a cinema is forbidden, as calling for violence, or discrimination.
The second amendment has limits too: grenades and machine guns are outlawed already. EIGHT HUNDRED Americans die every month due to gun violence!
The real terrorists are the gun lobby, that call for more weapon sales. The bought politicians with a NRA A-rating.
If I were a US citizen, I'd sign the petition at demandaplan.org and support credible gun laws today!
Realizing that actually people existed that planned this new low in pure hatred.
After these twenty toddlers were lined up and shot in Newtown... how can one ignore the gun problem any longer?
There are limits to the first amendment. Creating panic by a false fire alarm, like shouting "FIRE" for fun in a cinema is forbidden, as calling for violence, or discrimination.
The second amendment has limits too: grenades and machine guns are outlawed already. EIGHT HUNDRED Americans die every month due to gun violence!
The real terrorists are the gun lobby, that call for more weapon sales. The bought politicians with a NRA A-rating.
If I were a US citizen, I'd sign the petition at demandaplan.org and support credible gun laws today!
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Ms. Kianna
BSB Addict
It isn't that, at all. Mikey talked about our Civil War 150 years ago. Well, right now changes in our amendments have to be made by our government. The Democrats want to, the Republicans don't. The government can't come to an agreement so nothing gets changed. People that don't live here can say that the people should take over and fix it, but do you realize the death toll that could bring? Not to mention the effects to the technological and financial infrastructure of the entire world. What is out there as far as weaponry and technology, today, is worlds away from what they had 150 years ago. A civil war here and now would be like nothing anyone can fathom.
If I were to express my true outrage about all of this horror, I'd have to go on for days. I've signed every petition I can put my name on. I argue, I rant and rave where I feel it makes a difference. Here, on our forum with so many like-minded folks, I prefer to save the anti-anxiety meds. I hope you can all understand that.
joninliverton
BSB Addict
In the days of the founding fathers, people used to shoot a musket with a 5 minutes loading period per bullet. Not comparable with semi-automatic guns that can hold a 100 bullets magazine.
In Western Europe we had to defend our freedom against Hitler till the allied forces defeated his German army. It's not an excuse in Western Europe to carry around guns nowadays.
People do hunt here! And one can practice ones sport at a shooting range. The few people that do own a gun legally, need to lock up their weapon at home in a gun vault.
Exactly Robert. Sorry Mike but I disagree with what you say. There is a hellova difference protecting your property and your family and hoarding such weapons that has been used to kill innocent people and children of late. But the problem now is that there are so many weapons out there that you would have to have an amnesty if they were made illegal. A few years ago in the UK there was a lot of knife crime and there was an amnesty of so many days to hand in your knives to the police. Thousands were handed in and, whilst there is still the odd knife incident, they are very few.
mikeyank
Long time forumite
I'm not sure what it is I said that you disagree with Jon. I too am horrified by the massacres that have taken place in this country in recent years with the use of illegal guns. I fully support our President and Vice President, as well as New York State Governor Andrew Cuomo, and New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg to shore up the loopholes in the gun laws and to try to make this a safer country to live in.
However it is simplistic to say that we should not discuss amendments and just change the laws, as that is not how this country works. We have a constitution, and we cannot change amendments to it without following the proper procedures. And as I also pointed out, while the majority of Americans probably agree with me, there is also a hard core conservative block that is very strong politically, who vehemently oppose changes to gun control laws, so therefore there will be no instantaneous change here. It is a very difficult battle and it will take a lot of political battles to get the necessary changes made.
While I would love to see faster action happen, I understand and support the Constitution of the United States, and while it can hinder change, it also protects our freedoms.
I agree that we have a horrendous situation with guns, but I don't see any simple, fast solutions, based on the law of this land.
Feinstein introduces gun ban bill
Published: Jan. 24, 2013 at 1:48 PM
WASHINGTON, Jan. 24 (UPI) -- U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., introduced a bill Thursday to ban more than 150 types of semi-automatic weapons with military-style features.
In addition to banning the manufacture, sale, transfer or importation of semi-automatic rifles and pistols that can accept detachable magazines and have at least one military feature, the legislation -- titled "The Assault Weapons Ban of 2013" -- would ban magazines holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition and place new security requirements on people who already own such weapons, The Hill reported.
It would also apply to semi-automatic rifles and handguns with fixed magazines capable of carrying more than 10 rounds, and all semi-automatic shotguns with folding or detachable stocks, pistol grips, forward grips or fixed magazines with room for more than five rounds, The Hill said.
It exempts assault weapons that are "lawfully possessed" as of the date the bill is enacted, but sales of exempted weapons would be subject to background checks.
"No weapon is taken from anyone," Feinstein said. "The purpose is to dry up the supply of these weapons over time."
Feinstein said getting the bill through Congress will be "an uphill battle," but she said it would be "a battle worth having."
Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2013...un-ban-bill/UPI-86811359012600/#ixzz2IvExtJZp
Published: Jan. 24, 2013 at 1:48 PM
WASHINGTON, Jan. 24 (UPI) -- U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., introduced a bill Thursday to ban more than 150 types of semi-automatic weapons with military-style features.
In addition to banning the manufacture, sale, transfer or importation of semi-automatic rifles and pistols that can accept detachable magazines and have at least one military feature, the legislation -- titled "The Assault Weapons Ban of 2013" -- would ban magazines holding more than 10 rounds of ammunition and place new security requirements on people who already own such weapons, The Hill reported.
It would also apply to semi-automatic rifles and handguns with fixed magazines capable of carrying more than 10 rounds, and all semi-automatic shotguns with folding or detachable stocks, pistol grips, forward grips or fixed magazines with room for more than five rounds, The Hill said.
It exempts assault weapons that are "lawfully possessed" as of the date the bill is enacted, but sales of exempted weapons would be subject to background checks.
"No weapon is taken from anyone," Feinstein said. "The purpose is to dry up the supply of these weapons over time."
Feinstein said getting the bill through Congress will be "an uphill battle," but she said it would be "a battle worth having."
Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2013...un-ban-bill/UPI-86811359012600/#ixzz2IvExtJZp
no one is ever coming for the guns. for that to happen california would have to shake badly, the missouri flood, and the new madrid would to shake, just pure hell in america. and then, only the dead would surrender their guns.
if you can't keep it within the corner of this paper, you can't do it.
the old guard at the door, you got be on the list and got have a pass.
guns like the ones we send into war , we have on the city streets. in homes, in our neighborhoods. that just isn't right!
no where in the constitution does the phrase, assault weapon appear.
guns to protect and defend and hunt, not assault weapons. please exchange the weapon.
if you can't keep it within the corner of this paper, you can't do it.
the old guard at the door, you got be on the list and got have a pass.
guns like the ones we send into war , we have on the city streets. in homes, in our neighborhoods. that just isn't right!
no where in the constitution does the phrase, assault weapon appear.
guns to protect and defend and hunt, not assault weapons. please exchange the weapon.
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god and slavery are not mentioned either. slavery got comment upon by more gentile phrase.
god being too big to fit within the four corners of the document is not including. rather they created a system where the parliment would be first and executive power would vest in a single invididual. and the court system. and later protections from the government. simple, really. simple in so many ways. there may be ways around it, but what's the point. we will not have the order of a prison state and cannot have the liberty of the mob. 240 or so and still learning.
god being too big to fit within the four corners of the document is not including. rather they created a system where the parliment would be first and executive power would vest in a single invididual. and the court system. and later protections from the government. simple, really. simple in so many ways. there may be ways around it, but what's the point. we will not have the order of a prison state and cannot have the liberty of the mob. 240 or so and still learning.
voting rights, who can vote grew from all white, male, property holders to all male to all of age to all citizens over 18 years of age to people in the federal capital can vote for president, but not for seats in congress. (many of them are not white, male property holders).
over all there is the federal things. in the hills of tennessee, no federal law could prevent the turning of corn into something drinkable. you can't fine me, until you find me. the feeling of being from tennessee is something someone from new york could never fully understand.
here on the left coast of america, the feeling of being from california is something someone from utah could never fully understand.
now i say that like a german who speak of germany; like a pole of poland. the great struggle softened the drive to promote the state over this federal thing. it's the eu with money, arms, personnel and the will and power to act until told to crease. it's a rush! the theory is that, we the people have the ability to control this federal thing.
from a fight amongst ourselves and rail and telegraph from coast to coast, to growth across the seas, to helping the british and french restore order ( twice) to asking whether same sex couples have a right to marry and whether violent personalities have a right to bear assault weapons?
over all there is the federal things. in the hills of tennessee, no federal law could prevent the turning of corn into something drinkable. you can't fine me, until you find me. the feeling of being from tennessee is something someone from new york could never fully understand.
here on the left coast of america, the feeling of being from california is something someone from utah could never fully understand.
now i say that like a german who speak of germany; like a pole of poland. the great struggle softened the drive to promote the state over this federal thing. it's the eu with money, arms, personnel and the will and power to act until told to crease. it's a rush! the theory is that, we the people have the ability to control this federal thing.
from a fight amongst ourselves and rail and telegraph from coast to coast, to growth across the seas, to helping the british and french restore order ( twice) to asking whether same sex couples have a right to marry and whether violent personalities have a right to bear assault weapons?
[h=1]Selling a New Generation on Guns[/h]Threatened by long-term declining participation in shooting sports, the firearms industry has poured millions of dollars into a broad campaign to ensure its future by getting guns into the hands of more, and younger, children.
A junior shooter receiving tips on a military rifle last fall from an Army marksmanship instructor at a clinic at Fort Benning, Ga. Youth shooting clinics and competitions often receive financial support or supplies from firearms-related businesses.
Threatened by long-term declining participation in shooting sports, the firearms industry has poured millions of dollars into a broad campaign to ensure its future by getting guns into the hands of more, and younger, children.
The industry’s strategies include giving firearms, ammunition and cash to youth groups; weakening state restrictions on hunting by young children; marketing an affordable military-style rifle for “junior shooters” and sponsoring semiautomatic-handgun competitions for youths; and developing a target-shooting video game that promotes brand-name weapons, with links to the Web sites of their makers.
The pages of Junior Shooters, an industry-supported magazine that seeks to get children involved in the recreational use of firearms, once featured a smiling 15-year-old girl clutching a semiautomatic rifle. At the end of an accompanying article that extolled target shooting with a Bushmaster AR-15 — an advertisement elsewhere in the magazine directed readers to a coupon for buying one — the author encouraged youngsters to share the article with a parent.
“Who knows?” it said. “Maybe you’ll find a Bushmaster AR-15 under your tree some frosty Christmas morning!”
The industry’s youth-marketing effort is backed by extensive social research and is carried out by an array of nonprofit groups financed by the gun industry, an examination by The New York Times found. The campaign picked up steam about five years ago with the completion of a major study that urged a stronger emphasis on the “recruitment and retention” of new hunters and target shooters.
The overall objective was summed up in another study, commissioned last year by the shooting sports industry, that suggested encouraging children experienced in firearms to recruit other young people. The report, which focused on children ages 8 to 17, said these “peer ambassadors” should help introduce wary youngsters to guns slowly, perhaps through paintball, archery or some other less intimidating activity.
“The point should be to get newcomers started shooting something, with the natural next step being a move toward actual firearms,” said the report, which was prepared for the National Shooting Sports Foundation and the Hunting Heritage Trust.
Firearms manufacturers and their two primary surrogates, the National Rifle Association of America and the National Shooting Sports Foundation, have long been associated with high-profile battles to fend off efforts at gun control and to widen access to firearms. The public debate over the mass shootings in Newtown, Conn., and elsewhere has focused largely on the availability of guns, along with mental illness and the influence of violent video games.
read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/27/us/selling-a-new-generation-on-guns.html?hpw&_r=0
A junior shooter receiving tips on a military rifle last fall from an Army marksmanship instructor at a clinic at Fort Benning, Ga. Youth shooting clinics and competitions often receive financial support or supplies from firearms-related businesses.
Threatened by long-term declining participation in shooting sports, the firearms industry has poured millions of dollars into a broad campaign to ensure its future by getting guns into the hands of more, and younger, children.
The industry’s strategies include giving firearms, ammunition and cash to youth groups; weakening state restrictions on hunting by young children; marketing an affordable military-style rifle for “junior shooters” and sponsoring semiautomatic-handgun competitions for youths; and developing a target-shooting video game that promotes brand-name weapons, with links to the Web sites of their makers.
The pages of Junior Shooters, an industry-supported magazine that seeks to get children involved in the recreational use of firearms, once featured a smiling 15-year-old girl clutching a semiautomatic rifle. At the end of an accompanying article that extolled target shooting with a Bushmaster AR-15 — an advertisement elsewhere in the magazine directed readers to a coupon for buying one — the author encouraged youngsters to share the article with a parent.
“Who knows?” it said. “Maybe you’ll find a Bushmaster AR-15 under your tree some frosty Christmas morning!”
The industry’s youth-marketing effort is backed by extensive social research and is carried out by an array of nonprofit groups financed by the gun industry, an examination by The New York Times found. The campaign picked up steam about five years ago with the completion of a major study that urged a stronger emphasis on the “recruitment and retention” of new hunters and target shooters.
The overall objective was summed up in another study, commissioned last year by the shooting sports industry, that suggested encouraging children experienced in firearms to recruit other young people. The report, which focused on children ages 8 to 17, said these “peer ambassadors” should help introduce wary youngsters to guns slowly, perhaps through paintball, archery or some other less intimidating activity.
“The point should be to get newcomers started shooting something, with the natural next step being a move toward actual firearms,” said the report, which was prepared for the National Shooting Sports Foundation and the Hunting Heritage Trust.
Firearms manufacturers and their two primary surrogates, the National Rifle Association of America and the National Shooting Sports Foundation, have long been associated with high-profile battles to fend off efforts at gun control and to widen access to firearms. The public debate over the mass shootings in Newtown, Conn., and elsewhere has focused largely on the availability of guns, along with mental illness and the influence of violent video games.
read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/27/us/selling-a-new-generation-on-guns.html?hpw&_r=0
Boy, 5, threatened with suspension for building toy gun out of Legos
A five-year-old boy has been threatened with suspension after he used Legos to build a toy gun at school.
Joseph Cardosa, attends an a after-school program at Hyannis West Elementary School, on Cape Cod in Massachusetts. Teachers gave him a written warning for play-shooting some of his friends with the toy gun.
His parents say they understand that teachers are parents are on edge after the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, but argue that school administrators are taking things too far.
'Kids are taught, "Here's a squirt gun, this is fun," so this is fun to him... he's running around playing,' Shelia Cruz told Fox 5 Boston.
Is this a gun: Joseph's mother Sheila Cruz said the school is over-reacting
Ms Cruz said teachers should have spoken with her son an re-directed his playing to a non-violent scenario.
'We were running around and we were shooting... we were jut pretending,' little Joseph said.
Teachers sent Joseph's parents a letter warning that if he play-acted with a toy gun again, he would be suspended for two weeks.
Suspension, Ms Cruz says, is excessive.
'It's not like he's designing a machine gun,' the mother said.
read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-Legos.html?ITO=socialnet-twitter-mailonline
A five-year-old boy has been threatened with suspension after he used Legos to build a toy gun at school.
Joseph Cardosa, attends an a after-school program at Hyannis West Elementary School, on Cape Cod in Massachusetts. Teachers gave him a written warning for play-shooting some of his friends with the toy gun.
His parents say they understand that teachers are parents are on edge after the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, but argue that school administrators are taking things too far.
'Kids are taught, "Here's a squirt gun, this is fun," so this is fun to him... he's running around playing,' Shelia Cruz told Fox 5 Boston.
Is this a gun: Joseph's mother Sheila Cruz said the school is over-reacting
Ms Cruz said teachers should have spoken with her son an re-directed his playing to a non-violent scenario.
'We were running around and we were shooting... we were jut pretending,' little Joseph said.
Teachers sent Joseph's parents a letter warning that if he play-acted with a toy gun again, he would be suspended for two weeks.
Suspension, Ms Cruz says, is excessive.
'It's not like he's designing a machine gun,' the mother said.
read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-Legos.html?ITO=socialnet-twitter-mailonline
joninliverton
BSB Addict
Boy, 5, threatened with suspension for building toy gun out of Legos
A five-year-old boy has been threatened with suspension after he used Legos to build a toy gun at school.
Joseph Cardosa, attends an a after-school program at Hyannis West Elementary School, on Cape Cod in Massachusetts. Teachers gave him a written warning for play-shooting some of his friends with the toy gun.
His parents say they understand that teachers are parents are on edge after the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, but argue that school administrators are taking things too far.
'Kids are taught, "Here's a squirt gun, this is fun," so this is fun to him... he's running around playing,' Shelia Cruz told Fox 5 Boston.
Is this a gun: Joseph's mother Sheila Cruz said the school is over-reacting
Ms Cruz said teachers should have spoken with her son an re-directed his playing to a non-violent scenario.
'We were running around and we were shooting... we were jut pretending,' little Joseph said.
Teachers sent Joseph's parents a letter warning that if he play-acted with a toy gun again, he would be suspended for two weeks.
Suspension, Ms Cruz says, is excessive.
'It's not like he's designing a machine gun,' the mother said.
read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-Legos.html?ITO=socialnet-twitter-mailonline
Now that is going over the top. Play acting with toy guns is just a part of a kids life - we all did it. It doesn't mean that when we're older we're gonna go back to the school and shoot everyone up. The previous clip that Robert posted was more worrying.
joninliverton
BSB Addict
Guess we need bands to come up with songs like this once more
