Why are some some opposed to, or offended by, intelligence and intellectual thinking?

[slimvintage]

Slim, do you really think it will take that long?

I might be wrong, but I think Shakespeare could be read for a couple of hundred years, say till about 1800, without exegesis. Probably Chaucer too. It would probably take 300 for our language to need explanation in any major way, techno argot excepted, that would need a glossary earlier, I agree...

 

[rswaim]

I have no opposition to nor am I offended by intelligence or intellectual thinking... However, intelligence and intellectual thinking are relative to those who are interested in the topic at hand. You have brought up some very interesting topics and I personally have enjoyed responding to them.

By nature I am a kind hearted and easy going person. I follow the path of Divine Love. I have the innate intelligence that God gave me. I figure that is all I really need or I would have been given more. I don't consider myself more intelligent or any less intelligent than the next person. I know that anything worth having is worth working for. I am; however, a graduate of the "School of Hard Knocks." From my experience in life I would concur with these famous people:

• The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know. -- Socrates
  
• The more you know, the less you understand. -- Lao-Tse
  
• The more you learn, the more you know. The more you know, the more you forget. The more you forget, the less you know. So why bother to learn? -- George Bernard Shaw

From my time in the military service, I speak enough of many foreign languages to get me in a lot of trouble. If it weren't for the assistance of the World Wide Web, I would have been clueless of how to answer some of these foreign language questions and responses. I am not any more or less intelligent than the majority. I am very resourceful.

I prefer discussing matters relating to human development and personal growth. I am Bisexual. Although, I do prefer men, I still find women very appealing at times… I really don’t like labels because I really feel we are all sexual beings capable of love in many capacities. I enjoy this site because most of these guys are exploring gay sex for the first time. I really feel like that is a very magical time in a man’s life.

I do believe we were side tracked a little bit. It was a pleasant detour for me. Whether a person is cut or uncut is a great issue for social debate because for the most part, most of us did not have a choice in the matter. Considering how much our little man guides us most of our life, it seemed like a great side road to venture down to me. The topic seemed relevant because sometimes my little friend, Skip, has a mind of his own. (Yeah, I feel he has a mind of his own. So why not give him his own name?) I mean he tells me what he wants. Beyond that I need to come up with the plan to make that happen for him.

Thank you Slimvintage. I really enjoyed the detour. BTW your little friend is quite handsome.

Bless your heart rswaim. I think this time I answered your question and stayed on topic.

Jayman, please send me some of that herb that you are smoking.

 

[PeconicNY]

I was a double major as an undergrad. Why not an understanding of "Informal Logic?"

My double major as an undergrad besides engineering, was a philosophy major. So I felt it necessary to employ a more critical way of approaching what seems to be the case of "Intellectual thinking."

Informal logic is the attempt to develop a logic to assess, analyse and improve ordinary language (or "everyday") reasoning. It intersects with attempts to understand such reasoning from the point of view of philosophy, formal logic, cognitive psychology, and a range of other disciplines. Most of the work in informal logic focuses on the reasoning and argument (in the premise-conclusion sense) one finds in personal exchange, advertising, political debate, legal argument, and the social commentary that characterizes newspapers, television, the World Wide Web and other forms of mass media.

The development of informal logic is tied to educational goals: by the desire to develop ways of analysing ordinary reasoning which can inform general education. To this extent, the goals of informal logic intersect with those of the Critical Thinking Movement, which aims to inform and improve public reasoning, discussion and debate by promoting models of education which emphasize critical inquiry.

Informal logic is sometimes presented as a theoretical alternative to formal logic. This kind of characterization may reflect early battles in philosophy departments which debated, sometimes with acrimony, whether informal logic should be considered "real" logic. Today, informal logic enjoys a more conciliatory relationship with formal logic. Its attempt to understand informal reasoning is usually (but not always) couched in natural language, but research in informal logic sometimes employs formal methods and it remains an open question whether the accounts of argument in which informal logic specializes can in principle be formalized.


Best to everyone for a great 2009.

Kevin

 

[Jayman01]

Jayman, please send me some of that herb that you are smoking.

Opinions varry...However, I was on topic. Slim thought it was very well written and thought provoking. As for your jest about smoking some kind of herb, I never touch the stuff.

 

[rswaim]

My double major as an undergrad besides engineering, was a philosophy major. So I felt it necessary to employ a more critical way of approaching what seems to be the case of "Intellectual thinking."

Informal logic is the attempt to develop a logic to assess, analyse and improve ordinary language (or "everyday") reasoning. It intersects with attempts to understand such reasoning from the point of view of philosophy, formal logic, cognitive psychology, and a range of other disciplines. Most of the work in informal logic focuses on the reasoning and argument (in the premise-conclusion sense) one finds in personal exchange, advertising, political debate, legal argument, and the social commentary that characterizes newspapers, television, the World Wide Web and other forms of mass media.

The development of informal logic is tied to educational goals: by the desire to develop ways of analysing ordinary reasoning which can inform general education. To this extent, the goals of informal logic intersect with those of the Critical Thinking Movement, which aims to inform and improve public reasoning, discussion and debate by promoting models of education which emphasize critical inquiry.

Informal logic is sometimes presented as a theoretical alternative to formal logic. This kind of characterization may reflect early battles in philosophy departments which debated, sometimes with acrimony, whether informal logic should be considered "real" logic. Today, informal logic enjoys a more conciliatory relationship with formal logic. Its attempt to understand informal reasoning is usually (but not always) couched in natural language, but research in informal logic sometimes employs formal methods and it remains an open question whether the accounts of argument in which informal logic specializes can in principle be formalized.


Best to everyone for a great 2009.

Kevin

I notice that you use the British spelling in "analysing." Interesting.

 

[Jayman01]

My double major as an undergrad besides engineering, was a philosophy major. So I felt it necessary to employ a more critical way of approaching what seems to be the case of "Intellectual thinking."

Informal logic is the attempt to develop a logic to assess, analyse and improve ordinary language (or "everyday") reasoning. It intersects with attempts to understand such reasoning from the point of view of philosophy, formal logic, cognitive psychology, and a range of other disciplines. Most of the work in informal logic focuses on the reasoning and argument (in the premise-conclusion sense) one finds in personal exchange, advertising, political debate, legal argument, and the social commentary that characterizes newspapers, television, the World Wide Web and other forms of mass media.

The development of informal logic is tied to educational goals: by the desire to develop ways of analysing ordinary reasoning which can inform general education. To this extent, the goals of informal logic intersect with those of the Critical Thinking Movement, which aims to inform and improve public reasoning, discussion and debate by promoting models of education which emphasize critical inquiry.

Informal logic is sometimes presented as a theoretical alternative to formal logic. This kind of characterization may reflect early battles in philosophy departments which debated, sometimes with acrimony, whether informal logic should be considered "real" logic. Today, informal logic enjoys a more conciliatory relationship with formal logic. Its attempt to understand informal reasoning is usually (but not always) couched in natural language, but research in informal logic sometimes employs formal methods and it remains an open question whether the accounts of argument in which informal logic specializes can in principle be formalized.


Best to everyone for a great 2009.

Kevin

Thanks Kevin that was very well said.

 

[Markymark]

BTW nice penis my friend,? OK Slimvintage, are you "holding out on me" Because, it might be hard, but I'd have to hold it against you!! LMAO. Oh yes, just a reminder, make sure your birthday suit is pressed for tomorrow!

 

[slimvintage]

BTW nice penis my friend,? OK Slimvintage, are you "holding out on me" Because, it might be hard, but I'd have to hold it against you!! LMAO. Oh yes, just a reminder, make sure your birthday suit is pressed for tomorrow!

Marky it's all yesterday's news now but there's a link to my g4m profile on post number 66 in the "Apology" thread. You have to click on "Xrated pictures"

Yeah, I'll do my best to get the wrinkles out of my birthday suit, but it's a losing battle

 

[tampa24]

Sounds like a good topic for discussion and debate. Now come on and chime in Jayman, Slim, and Richard!

Why don't we start with this topic:

When writing (typing), important points such as capitalization, punctuation, and grammar structure should always be used. Writing English is a craft, and this craft should be practiced regularly in order to train and engrain proper techniques. Unfortunately, the use of chat room abbreviations, and "rap" or "hip hop," slang by younger people has begun to replace reading and letter writing as the primary form of communication, ultimately damaging their language skills, almost irreparably.
The use of Internet and "gangsta" slang has undeniably affected speech, grammar, punctuation and spelling. Grammar and spelling are the foundation of the English language. Punctuation sets the tone and the overall meaning of a sentence - without tone, meaning can be easily misconstrued. There are often many mixed-messages in chat room slang and e-mails.
Today many people spend more time conversing over the Internet than they do face-to-face. The Internet (including instant massaging and e-mail) is quickly becoming the most prevalent form of written correspondence. It is therefore easy to understand how the use of Internet slang for several hours a day can lead to the development of very poor English habits.
So what can be done to keep slang out of our writing? For a start, write a letter, in longhand, to a friend or relative, I do. Send handwritten thank-you notes to people instead of an email, I do this too. Handwrite party invitations instead of using those internet invite services. Nowadays, upon finding slang in homework and on test papers, some teachers and professors are deducting more points than they normally would for the usual grammar mistake. This makes the student more mindful of CORRECT ENGLISH.
Replacing the use of chat rooms and ghetto slang with regular reading and writing with a conscious effort to observe proper English grammar, punctuation and spelling will go a long way. Practice certainly makes perfect where the English language is concerned.
My grandmother, God rest her sweet soul, only went to the 8th grade, in a one room school (shack) in rural Kentucky in the very early 1900's, but she always took pride in the fact that she could write properly and spell correctly. Today's young people have had access to far more educational resources than my grandmother, yet most cannot write as well as she did.

You and I are kindred spirits on this point. This is in spite of the fact that I've had accidental typos on just about everything I've posted here so far. I cringe for instance when I see that I've posted a word like overrated with 2 t's. But errors in my typed correspondence have far more to do with my typing skills than with my knowledge of the language. Proper spelling and and at least an attempt at decent punctuation and grammar by others impresses me greatly.

My fear is that with all these abbreviations coming into vogue that the youth especially are sliding down a slippery slope. I worry that many will decide that as far as spelling issues and use of internet slang go, that anything goes. Then they will wonder why co-workers of theirs are getting promotions even though they know that they are just as capable, if not more so. What that person doesn't know is that their communication with corporate looks like something at a low grade school level. Corporate will decide based on this (fairly or not) that the person writing these memos is not very bright. Then these poor souls who may be very bright and hardworking are hitting a glass ceiling that's invisible to them. They have no clue what's wrong.

As far as whether we are snobs for feeling this way I'll address that more later. Obviously I don't think that we should just "git ovr r slvs".

 

[tampa24]

My apologies to Rswain. My own reply to his comments in the last post began towards the end with: "You and I are kindred spirits...". My computer skills are not the greatest.

 

[tampa24]

My apologies to Rswain. My own reply to his comments in the last post began towards the end with: "You and I are kindred spirits...". My computer skills are not the greatest. I'm working on it.

 

[Markymark]

Sounds like a good topic for discussion and debate. Now come on and chime in Jayman, Slim, and Richard!

Why don't we start with this topic:

When writing (typing), important points such as capitalization, punctuation, and grammar structure should always be used. Writing English is a craft, and this craft should be practiced regularly in order to train and engrain proper techniques. Unfortunately, the use of chat room abbreviations, and "rap" or "hip hop," slang by younger people has begun to replace reading and letter writing as the primary form of communication, ultimately damaging their language skills, almost irreparably.
The use of Internet and "gangsta" slang has undeniably affected speech, grammar, punctuation and spelling. Grammar and spelling are the foundation of the English language. Punctuation sets the tone and the overall meaning of a sentence - without tone, meaning can be easily misconstrued. There are often many mixed-messages in chat room slang and e-mails.
Today many people spend more time conversing over the Internet than they do face-to-face. The Internet (including instant massaging and e-mail) is quickly becoming the most prevalent form of written correspondence. It is therefore easy to understand how the use of Internet slang for several hours a day can lead to the development of very poor English habits.
So what can be done to keep slang out of our writing? For a start, write a letter, in longhand, to a friend or relative, I do. Send handwritten thank-you notes to people instead of an email, I do this too. Handwrite party invitations instead of using those internet invite services. Nowadays, upon finding slang in homework and on test papers, some teachers and professors are deducting more points than they normally would for the usual grammar mistake. This makes the student more mindful of CORRECT ENGLISH.
Replacing the use of chat rooms and ghetto slang with regular reading and writing with a conscious effort to observe proper English grammar, punctuation and spelling will go a long way. Practice certainly makes perfect where the English language is concerned.
My grandmother, God rest her sweet soul, only went to the 8th grade, in a one room school (shack) in rural Kentucky in the very early 1900's, but she always took pride in the fact that she could write properly and spell correctly. Today's young people have had access to far more educational resources than my grandmother, yet most cannot write as well as she did.

You and I are kindred spirits on this point. This is in spite of the fact that I've had accidental typos on just about everything I've posted here so far. I cringe for instance when I see that I've posted a word like overrated with 2 t's. But errors in my typed correspondence have far more to do with my typing skills than with my knowledge of the language. Proper spelling and and at least an attempt at decent punctuation and grammar by others impresses me greatly.

My fear is that with all these abbreviations coming into vogue that the youth especially are sliding down a slippery slope. I worry that many will decide that as far as spelling issues and use of internet slang go, that anything goes. Then they will wonder why co-workers of theirs are getting promotions even though they know that they are just as capable, if not more so. What that person doesn't know is that their communication with corporate looks like something at a low grade school level. Corporate will decide based on this (fairly or not) that the person writing these memos is not very bright. Then these poor souls who may be very bright and hardworking are hitting a glass ceiling that's invisible to them. They have no clue what's wrong.

As far as whether we are snobs for feeling this way I'll address that more later. Obviously I don't think that we should just "git ovr r slvs".

Thank you tampa24, and rswaim

If I were still teaching, I would be sorely tempted to hire you to teach in the English Department, thereby assuring us of the continuation of the proper use of the English Language. I suppose I could say something about how, being a drag queen, I speak the "Queen's English", but out of respect for our dear British friends, I shall hold my tongue on that issue. Suffice it to say that people such as yourselves with a genuine interest in upholding the standards of proper grammar and syntax, are a bastion for the preservation of our society.

M&M

 

[slimvintage]

Thank you tampa24, and rswaim

If I were still teaching, I would be sorely tempted to hire you to teach in the English Department, thereby assuring us of the continuation of the proper use of the English Language. I suppose I could say something about how, being a drag queen, I speak the "Queen's English", but out of respect for our dear British friends, I shall hold my tongue on that issue. Suffice it to say that people such as yourselves with a genuine interest in upholding the standards of proper grammar and syntax, are a bastion for the preservation of our society.

M&M

Marky, guess what? I've got some messages remarking on how impressed some of the new guys are at the level of good writing on the forum, and the quality of the content in many of the posts. I know the grammar and spelling quibbles caused some pain early on, but I hope that everyone, including some who were initially offended, are now ok with how it's turned out.

I'm sorry that one of the most outspoken members, whose posts I always was fascinated by, has either left, or was banned for being too aggressive, outspoken and confrontational. I had hoped that he'd reach a truce with management that could turn eventually into an uneasy peace, but that dude is gone, and I miss him. Imagine what he'd have to say on here if one of us had been banned? Moment of silence for the good Swaim...

 

[whip6]

All I can say, is I enjoy every post. Some posts are gracious and filled good grammar, while others are just to the point. I can say for myself, that I can live with the typos, as I am guilty for have them in everything I write. I use a spell checker on all my post, but a grammar checker, well I haven't found one yet. My bad grammar is most of the reason you don't see to many post here by me. I used to be a part time teacher/tutor
for slow learners, but after being knock down to a 4th or 5th grade level grammar again, I find I am the one learning instead of teaching. I am sorry if my posts offend the intellectual people here. But I will keep trying to improve on my writing and grammar skills.

 

[slimvintage]

All I can say, is I enjoy every post. Some posts are gracious and filled good grammar, while others are just to the point. I can say for myself, that I can live with the typos, as I am guilty for have them in everything I write. I use a spell checker on all my post, but a grammar checker, well I haven't found one yet. My bad grammar is most of the reason you don't see to many post here by me. I used to be a part time teacher/tutor
for slow learners, but after being knock down to a 4th or 5th grade level grammar again, I find I am the one learning instead of teaching. I am sorry if my posts offend the intellectual people here. But I will keep trying to improve on my writing and grammar skills.

Whip, a) there are no intellectuals in here. The guys who post the best prose are just like you, people who are interested in language and/or have maybe taught it at some point. b) the shoe is on the other foot, some of our jibes about grammar, syntax and orthography were probably offensive to a bunch of really intelligent guys who don't spell correctly, like F. Scott Fitzgerald for example, who couldn't spell for shee-it. Spelling is less an intellectual thing than a visual one. Guys with "visual intelligence" spell better than quantum physicists who have a different kind of intelligence, but who may lack the "visual" tic. I have no sense of direction, but can get anywhere in a car the second time around simply by having remembered, unconsciously, every single detail of the scenery all along the route, maybe a sort of Rainman thing.

Don't ever not post for any other reason than that you haven't the time. Peace.