Why am I gay?

[rrhill]

What makes one gay... It can be genetic, gays seem to have a larger hypotholamus. Sometimes the cause can be found in a disturbed relationship with a father.

read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothalamus , http://weblogs.nrc.nl/swaab/2009/02/24/homosexuality-not-a-choice/
and: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oedipus_complex

 

[mikeyank]

What makes one gay... It can be genetic, gays seem to have a larger hypotholamus. Sometimes the cause can be found in a disturbed relationship with a father.

read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothalamus , http://weblogs.nrc.nl/swaab/2009/02/24/homosexuality-not-a-choice/
and: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oedipus_complex

Robert, I can certainly buy the genetic angle, as there have always been about the same percentage of the population who are gay or degrees of bi, throughout our recorded history, so if it's the "hypothalamus", while I have no idea what that is, I will go along with it anyway as it makes sense to me.

I didn't read your article, but I reject the relationship with the father theory. I didn't have a great relationship with my father, particularly when I was a pre-teen and a teenager, but in retrospect, I feel that he may have sensed that I was homosexual, and perhaps our personalities clashed as a result of the unsaid tension. But in no way do I believe that my relationship with my father "caused" me to become gay. I believe that I was programmed that way from the start, and I have memories of doing stuff with other boys at a very young age, and realizing how much I liked it.

 

[rrhill]

I didn't read your article, but I reject the relationship with the father theory. I didn't have a great relationship with my father, particularly when I was a pre-teen and a teenager, but in retrospect, I feel that he may have sensed that I was homosexual, and perhaps our personalities clashed as a result of the unsaid tension. But in no way do I believe that my relationship with my father "caused" me to become gay. I believe that I was programmed that way from the start, and I have memories of doing stuff with other boys at a very young age, and realizing how much I liked it.

But Mike, statistics don't work on individuals. Ask your gay friends if they had a good father-son relationship. Many gays I know, did not had a particularity great relationship with dad. (like me)

Besides that, there are two moments that are crucial when it concerns being gay. The first decision is made at age 4 unconsciously, and the the second around age 13-14.

 

[cumrag27]

My all-time favorite thread

Dear Mikeyank and Robert,

My relationship with my father was a stormy one, like combining oil with water. He grew up in the depression(1930's) with his primary ambition in life of being a salesman. In these rough financial times, it was the salesmen that seemed to have it made financially.

When I was growing up, he was largely absent due to military service(Drill Sergeant) and our family stayed faithfully behind in Little Rock when he was living on-base either out of state or abroad. But he was very hard to be around and always made me feel as if he disapproved of me. We never shared sports or much of anything else one would normally expect in a fatherly way, other than being subjected to his fits of anger and rage without any warning(I chose to view his problem as something he returned with after fighting in Europe during WWII, possibly undiagnosed "posttraumatic stress disorder".) All I know is when he died in 1963 from Leukemia shortly after I turned 15, I felt a tremendous sense of relief upon his death.

Therefore, I have to agree that having a caustic relationship with one's father makes one grow up committed to becoming nothing like one's father in your adult life. But that is not sufficient in and of itself to account for one's orientation. I felt as a little child, it was obvious to observers that I wasn't the "Typical Red-Blooded All-American Boy"!

All I can say is that I have no regrets!!!

Thank you both for responding.


Sincerely,



Stimpy

 

[mikeyank]

But Mike, statistics don't work on individuals. Ask your gay friends if they had a good father-son relationship. Many gays I know, did not had a particularity great relationship with dad. (like me)

Besides that, there are two moments that are crucial when it concerns being gay. The first decision is made at age 4 unconsciously, and the the second around age 13-14.

Again Robert, I totally agree that it is very typical for a gay boy to have had a less than ideal relationship with his father, but I am saying that the relationship did not cause the boy to become gay, but rather the stormy relationship may be a manifestation of his being gay.

And I disagree with your choice of the word "decision", much as I dislike the expression "sexual preference". I never sat down and made a conscious decision that guys turned me on, it was always inside of me and who I was from the earliest age that I can remember. Perhaps the decision at age 13 or 14 is for us to be true to our natural instincts, rather than to try to hide who we really are from others and often from ourselves. Luckily I never had that internal conflict, always admitting to myself, if not others that I loved "cock" and not vagina.

 

[cumrag27]

I never sat down to decide if I were gay or straight, nor did straight guys consciously have to come to a decision. I feel that it is native to our basic being.

Besides, I have been amazed at the numbers of straight friends of mine that had poor relationships with their father when growing up as well!

Sincerely,


Stimpy

 

[rrhill]

Just tried to explain the current scientific opinions regarding homosexuality. Feel free to disagree.

 

[peterh6308]

Again Robert, I totally agree that it is very typical for a gay boy to have had a less than ideal relationship with his father, but I am saying that the relationship did not cause the boy to become gay, but rather the stormy relationship may be a manifestation of his being gay.

And I disagree with your choice of the word "decision", much as I dislike the expression "sexual preference". I never sat down and made a conscious decision that guys turned me on, it was always inside of me and who I was from the earliest age that I can remember. Perhaps the decision at age 13 or 14 is for us to be true to our natural instincts, rather than to try to hide who we really are from others and often from ourselves. Luckily I never had that internal conflict, always admitting to myself, if not others that I loved "cock" and not vagina.

I didn't have a great relationship with my Father growing up,but neither did my Brothers and Sisters. The problem was him!! I new in my pre-teens I was attracted to guys and junior high P.E. comfirmed it. But although I'm maculine in nature I knew of the other boys in school who were gay and nelly and this really turned me off. I thought the only way to be happy was with a wife, kids and the white picket fence. To some degree I still feel that way now that I see my siblings play with their grandkids. But when I met my best friend William (who was straight) I knew I found my soulmate. A couple of years past and we eventually started having sex and became an item. His natural tendencies were also the wife, kids and picket fence but realized he had fallen in love with his gay best friend. Now I can guarantee you he would not of "chose" to be in a relationship with another man if it weren't have been me. He told me many times that it was uncomfortable being around flamboyent gays and that us being best friends with the same interests and masculinity is what he liked. Once he said " he knew no other person could love him more then me" and that was what he needed to be happy. He had 2 kids and we bought a home, oddly with a painted white fence so I when i thought as a youngster that the wife, kids and white fence was happiness I was almost right. Please I mean this with no disrespect to my forumites, but I'm still not attracted to fem guys and they kind of make me uncomfortable.

 

[mikeyank]

I didn't have a great relationship with my Father growing up,but neither did my Brothers and Sisters. The problem was him!! I new in my pre-teens I was attracted to guys and junior high P.E. comfirmed it. But although I'm maculine in nature I knew of the other boys in school who were gay and nelly and this really turned me off. I thought the only way to be happy was with a wife, kids and the white picket fence. To some degree I still feel that way now that I see my siblings play with their grandkids. But when I met my best friend William (who was straight) I knew I found my soulmate. A couple of years past and we eventually started having sex and became an item. His natural tendencies were also the wife, kids and picket fence but realized he had fallen in love with his gay best friend. Now I can guarantee you he would not of "chose" to be in a relationship with another man if it weren't have been me. He told me many times that it was uncomfortable being around flamboyent gays and that us being best friends with the same interests and masculinity is what he liked. Once he said " he knew no other person could love him more then me" and that was what he needed to be happy. He had 2 kids and we bought a home, oddly with a painted white fence so I when i thought as a youngster that the wife, kids and white fence was happiness I was almost right. Please I mean this with no disrespect to my forumites, but I'm still not attracted to fem guys and they kind of make me uncomfortable.

Dear Peter,

Thank you for telling us a bit more about your beautiful wonderful relationship with William, and although his young life came to a way too early end, you still have all of your memories, and you are so fortunate to still have his children in your life, as you've told me previously. And you have a great attitude about life, always positive which makes you such a wonderful, cheerful, upbeat person whom I admire and respect.

I too shared many similarities growing up, being attracted to the boys in junior high school gym class, and not feeling like I was one of the stereotypical homosexuals, but also knowing that I was strongly attracted to males and not females.

Human beings vary so widely, even among gay and bisexual people, and we all have our own attractions. The fact that you, (and I), are not sexually attracted to "fem guys" is not unusual, and probably the reason that we met here on this particular web site, which was originally conceived as a place for guys who were attracted to masculine, straight and straight acting guys. You were so incredibly fortunate to find a man that was so perfect for you in every way, and we never know what the future holds, and perhaps at some point you will meet another man with similar characteristics to William.

Thank you for your beautiful, honest post. You are an extremely cool guy Peter, and I am honored to be your friend.

 

[mikeyank]

Just tried to explain the current scientific opinions regarding homosexuality. Feel free to disagree.

Of course, Robert. And I totally appreciate your bringing this information to us and opening up the discussion for agreement, disagreement and debate.

You are a very diligent forumite Robert who is always looking for ways to entertain, enlighten and inform us.

To make a slight pun, I say, "Robert Rules".

 

[mikeyank]

I never sat down to decide if I were gay or straight, nor did straight guys consciously have to come to a decision. I feel that it is native to our basic being.

Besides, I have been amazed at the numbers of straight friends of mine that had poor relationships with their father when growing up as well!

Sincerely,


Stimpy

I totally agree Stimpy that our sexual attraction is indeed "native to our basic being", and I thank you for bringing this discussion back into the forefront for us to chime in on, as while our sexuality may not necessarily define us as human beings, it is a large part of who we are and a most fascinating topic to discuss.

And for me at least, being that the current genre of porn being presented on the site is way less than entertaining, I doubly appreciate interesting topics to debate and discuss on the forum.

Thank you Stimpy, my friend, so much!

 

[peterh6308]

Dear Peter,

Thank you for telling us a bit more about your beautiful wonderful relationship with William, and although his young life came to a way too early end, you still have all of your memories, and you are so fortunate to still have his children in your life, as you've told me previously. And you have a great attitude about life, always positive which makes you such a wonderful, cheerful, upbeat person whom I admire and respect.

I too shared many similarities growing up, being attracted to the boys in junior high school gym class, and not feeling like I was one of the stereotypical homosexuals, but also knowing that I was strongly attracted to males and not females.

Human beings vary so widely, even among gay and bisexual people, and we all have our own attractions. The fact that you, (and I), are not sexually attracted to "fem guys" is not unusual, and probably the reason that we met here on this particular web site, which was originally conceived as a place for guys who were attracted to masculine, straight and straight acting guys. You were so incredibly fortunate to find a man that was so perfect for you in every way, and we never know what the future holds, and perhaps at some point you will meet another man with similar characteristics to William.

Thank you for your beautiful, honest post. You are an extremely cool guy Peter, and I am honored to be your friend.

Stop it Mikey!!! your turning me into a crying little bitch. haha I love you too buddy!

 

[tampa24]

Besides that, there are two moments that are crucial when it concerns being gay. The first decision is made at age 4 unconsciously, and the the second around age 13-14.

Hey Robert,

Can you please elaborate on what the two decisions supposedly are at 4 and 13?

 

[tampa24]

Dear Peter,

Thank you for telling us a bit more about your beautiful wonderful relationship with William, and although his young life came to a way too early end, you still have all of your memories, and you are so fortunate to still have his children in your life, as you've told me previously. And you have a great attitude about life, always positive which makes you such a wonderful, cheerful, upbeat person whom I admire and respect.

I too shared many similarities growing up, being attracted to the boys in junior high school gym class, and not feeling like I was one of the stereotypical homosexuals, but also knowing that I was strongly attracted to males and not females.

Human beings vary so widely, even among gay and bisexual people, and we all have our own attractions. The fact that you, (and I), are not sexually attracted to "fem guys" is not unusual, and probably the reason that we met here on this particular web site, which was originally conceived as a place for guys who were attracted to masculine, straight and straight acting guys. You were so incredibly fortunate to find a man that was so perfect for you in every way, and we never know what the future holds, and perhaps at some point you will meet another man with similar characteristics to William.

Thank you for your beautiful, honest post. You are an extremely cool guy Peter, and I am honored to be your friend.

I have to concur with Mikey here Peter. While William made you very happy, I was very touched by what he said about you. That he knew you would love him more than anyone else would. How many of us could ever ask or expect to find any more out of life than that from a spouse? Whether one or both is gay or straight? He hit the proverbial lottery in this life with you. And he knew it. I'm sure he loved you very much also.

I'm delighted to know that his children (from a straight father) are still in your life and are so happy to be there for you. It just goes to show that there area all kinds of relationships and families possible outside of the traditional norms of the human condition.

 

[tampa24]

I'm reminded of this short film posted by Beth that I love so much.

Here is a short film I really enjoy. Like some of the threads we've discussed before, love knows no sexual orientation.

 

[peterh6308]

I have to concur with Mikey here Peter. While William made you very happy, I was very touched by what he said about you. That he knew you would love him more than anyone else would. How many of us could ever ask or expect to find any more out of life than that from a spouse? Whether one or both is gay or straight? He hit the proverbial lottery in this life with you. And he knew it. I'm sure he loved you very much also.

I'm delighted to know that his children (from a straight father) are still in your life and are so happy to be there for you. It just goes to show that there area all kinds of relationships and families possible outside of the traditional norms of the human condition.

So true my friend. Outside of our Family we get to chose who is in our lives. Husbands, wives, lovers and friends are the people we surround ourselves with that hopefully make us happy and live a fulfilled life. I think if one finds that person regardless of their gender and sexuality then our hearts must take over and live the way we were truely meant to be as people Happy.

 

[rrhill]

Hey Robert,

Can you please elaborate on what the two decisions supposedly are at 4 and 13?

The first decision is at age four when a child starts realizing the difference between the sexes. At age thirteen / fourteen this process kicks in again. Young boys engage in a psychological process. First they realize they are not a kid any more, they are not a girl, and they do not want to be gay! For boys it's like crossing a psychological river; not all of us manage to cross that river. Especially the boys that have a non functioning father relation. Those that not cross this river, in a way they are the losers, and deserve our sympathy, not hatred!

All according to psychologists (Sigmund Freud) the Oedipus complex means in depth, that a child splits up his father into a good daddy, and a bad daddy. When the child at age 4(!) already, kills his father psychological, and has a loving mother... this could contribute for a boy to become gay.

Many gays have not only a complicated father relation, they also have often a mother that they love twice as much; even adore.

 

[tampa24]

The first decision is at age four when a child starts realizing the difference between the sexes. At age thirteen / fourteen this process kicks in again. Young boys engage in a psychological process. First they realize they are not a kid any more, they are not a girl, and they do not want to be gay! For boys it's like crossing a psychological river; not all of us manage to cross that river. Especially the boys that have a non functioning father relation. Those that not cross this river, in a way they are the losers, and deserve our sympathy, not hatred!

All according to psychologists (Sigmund Freud) the Oedipus complex means in depth, that a child splits up his father into a good daddy, and a bad daddy. When the child at age 4(!) already, kills his father psychological, and has a loving mother... this could contribute for a boy to become gay.

Many gays have not only a complicated father relation, they also have often a mother that they love twice as much; even adore.

I'm not sure I buy all that. But it's an interesting hypothesis. Thanks for answering my question Robert. xoo

 

[rrhill]

I'm not sure I buy all that. But it's an interesting hypothesis. Thanks for answering my question Robert. xoo

Then again... I do not try to sell anything to you my dear friend Tampa. : -)

 

[Declyn]

Outside of our Family we get to chose who is in our lives.

Creating what Armistead Maupin calls one's "logical" family (instead of biological family, don'tcha know).