Why am I gay?

[underwear fun]

Some of us may have asked ourselves: why am I gay? And it may not have even occurred to others to ask themselves: why am I straight? Or indeed why am I transgender, bi-sexual, bi-curious etc. Has anyone got an answer scientific or not?

I’ve been wondering about this for a few years now as it is something I feel goes to defining who I am. It seems to me that the ‘scientific world’ is still not clear but frequently terms like ‘sexuality is pre-determined’ and ‘that people's behaviour is influenced by their family environment’ arise. Last year I watched an insightful two part series on the BBC called ‘The Secret Life of Twins’. The first part looked at what science can learn from the uncanny similarities between twins and the second part focuses on how the differences between identical twins can help science understand what makes us all who we are.

BBC news article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8280431.stm

BBC 1 programme article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00n462v

Most people are used to thinking of our DNA as a fairly fixed code, a bit like a blueprint for a building. We know that some things can change the code itself - exposure to radiation can cause mutations that lead to an increased risk of cancer for example - but usually the code remains the same. However, production of the molecules for which our genes are responsible - things like digestive enzymes and muscle protein - is constantly getting switched on and off. And it seems that some environmental influences can have much more lasting effects - permanently activating or inactivating certain genes. It is becoming apparent that this aspect of genetic control - a process dubbed epigenetics - is very important in human health.

The programme presented case after case of differences between identical twins like twin girls where one developed cancer and the other didn’t, identical brother’s that grew up to be 185cm and the other 183cm tall. The programme concluded that our DNA is not fixed but can be changed by our environment. ‘Nature’ AND ‘nurture’. Dormant DNA aspects can be switched on individually due to illness, lifestyle and diet etc. or changes can be wider spread like in 1944 there was a severe famine in Holland. The children born during this period are more susceptible to diabetes, obesity and heart disease compared to siblings who were older during the famine. It seems that the period of starvation prompted their bodies to switch certain genes on or off to cope with the lack of food.

They presented identical twins Mark and John (exactly the same genes) who are helping scientists to explore the possible genetic basis of sexuality, they may be genetic clones but John is gay and Mark straight - they want to understand what makes them different.

I remember a gay guy I took home a couple of years ago saying to me after sex that he thought that your first sexual experience influenced your sexuality. For him, a school bully took him behind a school shed and made him suck his cock. So it got me wondering whether people are actually born with a propensity (to varying degrees) for a particular sexual preference and that after birth environmental factors then play a part as the whether the born preference dominates or changes during their life. Interesting.

On September 6, 2010, one of the most ambitious large-scale projects in Human Genetics has been launched: Epitwin will capture the subtle epigenetic signatures that mark the differences between 5,000 twins on a scale and depth never before attempted, providing key therapeutic targets for the development of drug treatments. The project is a collaboration between TwinsUK, a leading twin research group based at King’s College London, and BGI, one of the world’s largest genomic organisations headquartered in Shenzhen, China. Epigenetics is the most cutting edge emerging field in Genetics, which explores how the actions of genes can be temporarily modified by chemical reactions that may occur either at random or by lifestyle or diet. This effect may last several generations.

http://www.twinsuk.ac.uk/

I hope research like this will conclusively show if there is any genetic basis to sexuality and if so what it is and to quash the old believes that ‘homosexuality is an illness’. I think that when society can conclusively answer the question ‘Why am I gay?’ we can all move on and young teenagers will stop killing themselves needlessly.

Undie (just having a serious moment)

 

[lovelumps]

Well, this isn't part of your question or your reason for posting, but my dad is an identical twin. He and his brother were born in 1938 in a very small town in Iowa. They had birth weights that were different by more than a pound. My dad, the first born, was the bigger twin, and was born 4 hours prior to his brother. The doctor had heavily sedated my grandmother, as was common in that time, and had no idea there were two babies. Dad was rounder, and heavier than his brother from the outset.

My dad is a leftie, although his teachers tried to break him of that habit, my uncle is a rightie (don't know if he had any leftie tendencies). They are both artistic, played football, and basketball, ran track, got to eagle in scouts, are both mathmatical, smart, successful men. My dad went into marketing, my uncle, sales. They went to the same college, lived together in the dorms, pledged the same fraternity.

They got married to drastically different women, my uncle about a year before my parents. My uncle and his wife raised their family in the same town they went to college, and are there today. My uncle has 4 sons. My parents moved to the town where my mom grew up after graduation and moved 7 times before they retired. My dad fathered a boy and a girl.

They have had different health concerns over the years. My uncle had an appendectomy years ago and has been through 2 hip replacement surgeries. My dad had prostate cancer. When my uncle has been in pain, either from medical procedures or injuries, my dad feels the pain, knows something is happening with his brother. My uncle has no "twin esp." Otherwise, they are both fit and healthy 71 year old men.

They look a lot alike, almost identical after all this time. But the differences, I've always believed, are most likely attributed to birth stress, and environmental differences after they left college. According to the article mentioned above, that is very likely.

I've always been very interested in twin research. I wish my dad and uncle had participated in a study at some point in their lives.

 

[cumrag27]

Why an I gay despite the genetic/biological influences...

Let's put aside any scientific investigations for the time being.

Lets review my heroes as a child. To begin with I was a product of the 50's so let me begin with Liberace. At age 6, I too had a penchant for grand pianos, candelabra, sparkly jewelry, and classical music and in particular piano concerts. Like Lee (short for Liberace) I loved big, flashy flamboyant cars of the period but especially Cadillacs; T-birds(2 seaters only); Chrysler 300 letter series/ New Yorkers/and Imperials; Jaguars(2 seaters only), and on and on. The 50's were all about wretched excess and Lee had cornered the market. I, at the time thought gay was merely a way of describing a happy or joyful time.

There was this much loved conductor named Leonard Bernstein. Besides providing a special nationally broadcasted program for kids introducing the finer points of appreciating classical music, he wrote the music for the musical West Side Story. Besides his flamboyant style for conducting a symphony orchestra, he was involved in writing music for Broadway and Hollywood. With his long prematurely white hair all a blur while he was conducting, and sweat flowing down his impassioned face, and the sheet music flying, who in the orchestra could possibly upstage him? The answer: Absolutely no one!. I have never seen so much passion ever from any conductor accompanied with great communication skills. He was an "Artist" if ever there was one! Though he died in 1990, I feel he is part of my family and I love him to this very day. Only around that time did I become aware of his Gay sexual orientation.

Other significant 50’s gay stars include James Dean, Montgomery Cliff, Rock Hudson, and Tab Hunter.

Following the death of James Dean in 1955, Dean became an icon of the “sensitive” and moody young man as portrayed in “East of Eden”, “Rebel without a Cause”, and Giant. While not exclusively gay, Dean was at least bisexual and was involved with prominent men and women of the era.

Concerning Montgomery Cliff:
"No other star captured the hearts and minds of gay men like Montgomery Clift," proclaims John Stubbard. “Clift's persona was sensitive, introspective, fragile, and intense. "Clift was like a wound," Jane Fonda noted, constantly suffering and in psychological turmoil. But with his physically slight body, pretty face, hesitance to take action, and troubled stare, Clift helped reconfigure notions of masculinity in Hollywood.
Gay men of the 1950s may have responded so fully to the suffering of Dean and Clift because they connected it with the degradation they faced every day in a homophobic society.” ( http://www.glbtq.com/arts/film_actors_gay.html)

Concerning Rock Hudson;
“Almost every year during the 1950s, Look, Photoplay, Modern Screen, and other movie magazines proclaimed Rock Hudson "most popular star" or "top male star." He was six feet four inches tall, virile, steadfast, with a smooth muscular body and heroic square jaw. The strength of his masculine persona permitted Hudson to feign effeminacy in comedies with Doris Day and Tony Randall and appear vulnerable and indecisive with women in Douglas Sirk's melodramas.
Fearing imminent outing of his client by Confidential magazine, Henry Willson, Hudson's agent, arranged the star's marriage with Phyllis Gates, his executive secretary. It lasted three years.
Obsessed with his image, Hudson supposedly declared he would rather die before fans discovered he was gay. In the 1950s, Hollywood publicists filled magazines with pictures of Hudson in his shorts, frolicking with Elizabeth Taylor and other glamorous female stars. Gay males of the era saw through this facade, however, and, most of them also necessarily closeted, could even identify with it.” I had a gay roommate in my sophmore year in college iin 1967 who claimed Rock was gay. I laughed at my roommate in disbelief only to be proven wrong when it became publiv knowledge Rock had AIDS.

Tab Hunter was another well known 50’s personality.
“Hunter had long-term relationships with bisexual actor Anthony Perkins and champion figure skater Ronnie Robertson, before settling down with his partner of 30 years, Allan Glaser. In Hunter's 2005 best selling autobiography, Tab Hunter Confidential: The Making of a Movie Star, he acknowledged his homosexuality, confirming rumors that had circulated since the height of his fame. According to William L. Hamilton of The New York Times, detailed reports about his alleged romances with very close friends Debbie Reynolds and Natalie Wood were strictly the fodder of studio publicity departments. As Wood and Hunter embarked on a well-publicized and groundless romance, promoting his apparent heterosexuality while promoting their movies, insiders developed their own headline for the item: 'Natalie Wood and Tab Wouldn't.'”

Raymond Burr, aka “Perry Mason” was one of the most appreciated and popular television stars of the decade and into the 60’s. He believed:
“he could ensure privacy by creating an imaginary world to hide his homosexuality and his forty-year relationship with Robert Benevides. Burr claimed he was married three times and had a son who died of leukemia at age ten. Only in the late 1990s did his sister admit that Burr was married only once, for a short time, and had no son.”

Anthony Perkins is another example of a closeted gay star of this period.
“Anthony Perkins' masculine persona was delicate, timid, and agitated. He suffered psychologically over his homosexuality, and, reportedly, had severe panic attacks in the presence of beautiful actresses when no sexual feelings were generated. Alarmed over possible exposure by Confidential magazine, Perkins married Berry Berenson, who had an adolescent crush on him and was sixteen years his junior.
Some friends believe that Perkins' desperate attempts to develop a heterosexual response were only partially successful. Another casualty of AIDS, Perkins was also a casualty of his internalized homophobia.”

Another example of an absolute favorite was the wonderful Danny Kaye in his many comic roles in movies. "Of course I knew Laurence Olivier and Danny Kaye were having a long-term affair. So did all of London. So did their wives. Why is America always the last to know?" quote attributed to - Dame Peggy Ashcroft

In conclusion I am not suggesting that these personalities made me gay because they weren’t openly gay and I feel my being gay has much more a genetic/biological aspect to it. However, when you have so many cultural influences from people you admire so much, surely some of their hidden homosexual traits had to influence me at some imperceptible level, at least.

Please share with us some of your personal experiences influencing your being gay or lesbian?

Sincerely,

Cumrag27, aka Stimpy

 

[joninliverton]

Answer to the question.

Because you like the male body more than you do female or in a more crudish British way - you love sucking cock and taking it up the ass.

 

[cumrag27]

Pithy indeed!

Answer to the question.

Because you like the male body more than you do female or in a more crudish British way - you love sucking cock and taking it up the ass.

Dear Jon,

Your more crudish British way comments are so very succinct.

 

[mikeyank]

Answer to the question.

Because you like the male body more than you do female or in a more crudish British way - you love sucking cock and taking it up the ass.

While I'm not a fan of "taking it up the ass", I do love cock, and guy's bodies, and faces, and masculinity. I assume that I was born this way, as I can remember wanting to sit next to cute boys in school when I was eight or nine years old.

So I don't spend much time thinking about it or worrying about it. I know what I am, and I'm content being who I am. Sure life might have been easier for me if I was heterosexual, as society is set up that way. But I'm quite happy being a cocksucker and enjoying the male form in many ways.

 

[joninliverton]

While I'm not a fan of "taking it up the ass", I do love cock, and guy's bodies, and faces, and masculinity. I assume that I was born this way, as I can remember wanting to sit next to cute boys in school when I was eight or nine years old.

So I don't spend much time thinking about it or worrying about it. I know what I am, and I'm content being who I am. Sure life might have been easier for me if I was heterosexual, as society is set up that way. But I'm quite happy being a cocksucker and enjoying the male form in many ways.

As they say in Oz - Good onya Mike.

 

[clock12]

Thanks, underwear fun, for this informative post.

I hope research like this will conclusively show if there is any genetic basis to sexuality and if so what it is and to quash the old believes that ‘homosexuality is an illness’.

Unfortunately, to many people, finding a genetic basis for homosexuality wouldn't be much different than finding a genetic basis for a disease. Many mental illnesses are more prevalent if there is a history of it in one's family. This suggests a genetic basis. (Even though it could also suggest a particular method of upbringing common to that family.) Either way, a schizophrenic is still considered mentally ill regardless of the "nature vs nurture" debate, and it is the same with homosexuality for many who see it as "crossed wires in the brain" or some other form of "incorrect" sexual impulse.

And this is to say nothing of the religious dogmas that insist that homosexuality is wrong because it defies Natural Law, or God's Plan or some such. It is true that such religious points of view do not consider a schizophrenic to be willfully deviant, yet it is still a disease to be treated, not to be accepted as normal. Some have even argued that since the majority is straight, and that many straights find homosexuality to be abhorrent, this is proof enough of its perversion of "proper" sexual expression. I have heard this from evolutionary theorists who believe the "ick factor" (as they call it) toward gay sex is the natural way to insure the continuation of the species!

At best, scientific evidence of a genetic or an early-childhood basis for homosexuality can provide an excuse, so to speak, to go against the precepts of one's religion in order to "tolerate" one's gay family member or friend (or oneself!) This is still nowhere near accepting it as a normal aspect of humanity. In the absence of a reformation on the subject among the major religions, the only sure way to break through the dogmatic wall that separates gays from acceptance is the same with any other prejudice: when people get to know actual gays and lesbians in real life, then their minds invariably change.

The best news is that the thin tolerance of non-heterosexuals that has been slowly propagating through the various media over the years has been internalized, by and large, in the younger generations who are more comfortable with human diversity in general. Excepting those young people who have instead internalized their parent's (or equivalent) prejudices and see the changing mores of society as a scary "otherness" to be valiantly defied. These are the minority, however, and like other bad ideas and errors in the past, will eventually die out when their proponents die out or change their minds.

Religious texts, however, keep ancient ideas (the good, the bad, and the imbecilic) around long after the proponents are dead and forgotten. The feeble interpretation of certain passages in the Tanakh, Bible, and Qur'an that convince people of the evils of homosexuality is the number one roadblock to social acceptance and legal equanimity for the LGBT. (The Qur'an's accepted teaching on homosexuality is itself a misinterpretation of one passage in the Tanakh: Genesis 19.) Conversely, the slow but inexorable progression of society in affirming the natural diversity in human sexuality is the number one crisis for traditional organized religion (in democracies) at this time.

 

[underwear fun]

Clock,

Thanks for your considered response.

Unfortunately, to many people, finding a genetic basis for homosexuality wouldn't be much different than finding a genetic basis for a disease. Many mental illnesses are more prevalent if there is a history of it in one's family. This suggests a genetic basis. (Even though it could also suggest a particular method of upbringing common to that family.)

And maybe it is not that much different, in a sense. The point I was making was that perhaps the research may show that whether you are born albino or not, or get colon cancer at 40 or not, are claustrophobic or not, suffer from arachnophobia or not, grow to 185cm tall or not, are gay or not may all lie within our genes to a greater or lesser extent and be triggered by a variety of 'nature' and 'nurture' impulses. That they are not illnesses (i.e. impairment of normal physiological function) because something has gone 'wrong' but are a logical consquence of natural events, i.e. normal.

At best, scientific evidence of a genetic or an early-childhood basis for homosexuality can provide an excuse, so to speak, to go against the precepts of one's religion in order to "tolerate" one's gay family member or friend (or oneself!) This is still nowhere near accepting it as a normal aspect of humanity. In the absence of a reformation on the subject among the major religions, the only sure way to break through the dogmatic wall that separates gays from acceptance is the same with any other prejudice: when people get to know actual gays and lesbians in real life, then their minds invariably change.

I agree prejudice can be overcome with 'familarity' but it can take a very long time and on a global scale probably patchy with perhaps only 1 in 10 or 20 GLB people. Not wishing to sidetrack but for example: where would general international acceptance of global warming be if we had to know someone that believed in it just because they did. If someone was the only albino in a village wouldn't it be easier to have a rational explanation of why they were albino rather than having to befriend everyone in the village? So I'm thinking that together with your 'getting to know actual gays', also having widely accepted scientific concensus of 'Why am I gay?' to gain a broader understanding and tolerance.

The best news is that the thin tolerance of non-heterosexuals that has been slowly propagating through the various media over the years has been internalized, by and large, in the younger generations who are more comfortable with human diversity in general. Excepting those young people who have instead internalized their parent's (or equivalent) prejudices and see the changing mores of society as a scary "otherness" to be valiantly defied. These are the minority, however, and like other bad ideas and errors in the past, will eventually die out when their proponents die out or change their minds.

.........Conversely, the slow but inexorable progression of society in affirming the natural diversity in human sexuality is the number one crisis for traditional organized religion (in democracies) at this time.

Yes I agree society is naturally becoming more tolerant, as one constantly changing aspect to humanity is the increasing access to knowledge for one to form their own opinions.

Thanks again for your post, you make some good points.

Undie

 

[underwear fun]

I've always been very interested in twin research. I wish my dad and uncle had participated in a study at some point in their lives.

Dear lovelumps,

Thanks for sharing this, the television programme challenged one's understanding of 'who we are' and was intriguingly interesting to watch.

Here is a link to a 10:27 minute segment from the series and a BBC interview: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/breakfast/8278682.stm

Undie

 

[joninliverton]

Checkout you guys watching the BBC..

 

[carking1]

I don't know why I am gay. I know that I did what the people in my generation were expected to do, got married out of high school and produced a son. That didn't work out for reasons I now more fully understand, so I got married again, and produced another son. I finally, at the age of 42, was honest with myself, my wife, and my family.

I love the male form. I have often wondered if my mother's refusal to allow her children to have a pacifier or the nurse beyond 6 months has caused me to crave something in my mouth. There are times I literally crave it. I love to feel a man's body against mine, shirtless or totally nude. I love to run my fingers through a man's hair.

Now, here's where I start the shit storm. I turn on the television and see women like Kate Gosselin and Sarah Palin and thank God I'm gay. I wouldn't tolerate Kate's superior attitude and agressiveness for 10 seconds, and Palin's voice alone is like fingernails on a chalkboard. Before I get lambasted for making those comments, I know that they are not typical women and those examples are the extreme. There are millions and millions of wonderful, caring, compassionate, and sexy women in the world. All I am saying is that when I see the extreme, especially the two examples I named, the first thing on my mind is "Thank God I am gay!"

 

[underwear fun]

I don't know why I am gay. I know that I did what the people in my generation were expected to do.........

Hi Carking

Here's a question for anyone: would you like (or even would you haved liked) to know why you are gay?

I am greatful to know that I live in a time and am of an age that I have been able to readily discover that I am gay before getting married. As I personally would fine it difficult to explain to a wife that I'm not what she thought she married and that I didn't know who I was, sorry. I suspect there are a lot of guys that have found out that they are gay in later life and in many cases this must be difficult to reconcile.


For me, I see child birth and praise the lord that I am a man!

Undie

 

[underwear fun]

BBC television licence

Checkout you guys watching the BBC..

Jon

Perhaps I should have explained to everyone about the television licencing in the UK where if you own a TV you have to pay £150 per year or get a shitty letter and risk a £10,000 fine. They have vans that drive around neighborhoods with sensors looking for houses with TVs on and who haven't registered a TV licence. All very draconian and Big Brother (ohhh....that's another channel).

Undie (be watchful of men in black vans!)

 

[joeychuck2]

Why do we worry about why? Just enjoy it all. Not just sexual prefernece but every aspect of life. I liked men sexually all the time but I married and had sex with a woman , had kids and still liked men. We have no sex now but I have sex with men some that are married and some that are in the gay lifestyle. We live "don't ask don't tell" . Not only do I have gay sex but I enjoy the more kinky variety. I think I have done everything possible in gay sex as a top and now mostly as a bottom. We should enjoy doing it not asking why... Carking1 said " Thank God I'm gay" I say Thank God I have the freedom to do what gives me pleasure. Guys just enjoy each day doing the things you like to do. Why we are who we are is not that important.

 

[mikeyank]

Guys just enjoy each day doing the things you like to do. Why we are who we are is not that important.

I agree that it is not important why I like cock. I just do, (provided it is attached to the right person).

 

[joninliverton]

Jon

Perhaps I should have explained to everyone about the television licencing in the UK where if you own a TV you have to pay £150 per year or get a shitty letter and risk a £10,000 fine. They have vans that drive around neighborhoods with sensors looking for houses with TVs on and who haven't registered a TV licence. All very draconian and Big Brother (ohhh....that's another channel).

Undie (be watchful of men in black vans!)

The BBC TV and radio is funded by the radio and TV license. If you own one you gotta have a licence and most people realise and accept this and those who do not pay but choose to break the law then have to pay a fine if caught.
It may be draconian to some, but the BBC make some of the best programmes in the world and quite a few fellow forumites watch the American version of the BBC..

There are no advertisements on the BBC so you get to watch all the programmes advert free so with any interuptions. The commercial stations like ITV, Channel 4 and 5 are funded by advertisments just like most or all of your TV channels. And unlike car tax and fuel duty, ALL the revenue from the TV licence goes to the BBC.

 

[underwear fun]

50’s gay stars

Let's put aside any scientific investigations for the time being.

Lets review my heroes as a child. To begin with I was a product of the 50's so let me begin with Liberace.......The 50's were all about wretched excess and Liberace had cornered the market. I, at the time thought gay was merely a way of describing a happy or joyful time.

There was this much loved conductor named Leonard Bernstein.........Other significant 50’s gay stars include James Dean, Montgomery Cliff, Rock Hudson, and Tab Hunter.

In conclusion I am not suggesting that these personalities made me gay because they weren’t openly gay and I feel my being gay has much more a genetic/biological aspect to it. However, when you have so many cultural influences from people you admire so much, surely some of their hidden homosexual traits had to influence me at some imperceptible level, at least.

Please share with us some of your personal experiences influencing your being gay or lesbian?

Stimpy,

Another 1000+ word post, WOW.......this seems back in the day when Hollywood men were overly masculine. For me I can see why Tab Hunter's rugged outdoor looks can be considered hot.......but for me it would have to be his boyfriend Anthony Perkins. I love guys with dark hair....and looking at his photo I can see him walking towards me in his little pink trunks. Why are pink trunks so topical on the forum at the moment?

I didn't associate with gay role models (or indeed male role models) but rather felt much more at ease in male company and no emotional attraction to women. Never could understand why my straight school friends would 'talk dirty' about women who walked past.

I hope I have not got you all worked up by posting all these photos.

Undie

 

[cumrag27]

My 50's heros and How I spent my misspent youth

Dear Undie,

Wouldn't you know Anthony Perkins is wearing his "Psycho" mother's pink shorts (minus any visible support) remade from her then fashionable "Poodle Skirt". You did well, Undie, and the "Poodle" was his first victim before turning his efforts on her. I know now jon's fascination for "pink shorts", Anthony Perkins in the flesh! (I don't have to worry because jjoninliverton never bothers to read my posts the hour reserved in the morning before going to work or so he claims. I guess we'll find out!)

Unfortunately, Liberace was caught again getting into his mother's make-up prior to the photo shoot and before his violin playing brother George could slap his Lee's hands once again. Judging from the picture, a little on the thick side, wouldn't you say? I have to fault Undie with the fact that there are no rhinestone encrusted grand pianos, no bejeweled Caddys or T-Birds, no mink capes, nor the ever essential candalabra. Lee, singing from the grave ..."I'll be seeing you in all the familiar places...

http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/l/liberace/ill_be_seeing_you.html
Lee was bigger to me as a 6 year old, than Superman himself. And besides, Superman could never keep his candalabra lit! Even Jimmy Olsen, superman's right-hand-man at the newspaper, was no help!

James Dean was the iconic brooding rebel without a cause. I so love his movie "East of Eden" as one of the most underrated films of the 50's and my favorite JD movie. Giant was my least favorite being greatly disturbed by Elizabeth Taylor's overly exaggerated aging with 50's style make up.

Leonard Bernstein in his white suit in front of an audience is his typically shy and reserved self, a bit mousy wouldn't you say. Wrong! Wrong! He was seen here attempting to do the "splits" showing his new "Stretch polyester pants borrowed hurredly from Elton John.who had little use for them.

Montgomery Cliff, before his car accident (alcohol related) leaving Elizabeth Taylor's house one night, was one of the most intense actors in the US and Elizabeth Taylor's favorite. His face was beautiful before the accident and, never there after,returned anywhere to its former glory. He became a wounded soul.

Rock Hudson was really into phone sex with her holiness, Doris Day in scandalous movies such as "Pillow Talk". His bare chest with hairs demonstrate the manly, man he depicted so successfully so typical of the times. Rock really kept the public fooled right to the end and were in total denial at the time of his death.

Lastly was the "surfer boy", Tab Hunter who was famous for his hot beach party movies where his chest stayed exposed due to costuming budgetary limitations. He was like the boy next door, only I never had a next door neighbor quite like Tab.

 

[mikeyank]

I didn't associate with gay role models (or indeed male role models) but rather felt much more at ease in male company and no emotional attraction to women. Never could understand why my straight school friends would 'talk dirty' about women who walked past.

I was much the same way as you Undie, growing up. I didn't identify with the closeted "gay role models" of the era of my growing up. I didn't consciously think of Liberace as gay, but rather thought he was a kind of a "freak", with his outlandish way of dressing, and his feminine speech patterns, much the same way I felt about Tiny Tim, a decade or so later. There was one comedic actor who gave off a very gay vibe that I really enjoyed and that was Paul Lynde. I loved him on Bewitched, and in the movie Bye Bye Birdie, and he was a total pisser on Hollywood Squares. On Hollywood Squares he was doing double entendre jokes, hinting at his being gay, too. He was very cool.

I too enjoyed the boys in my classes much more than the girls. As I got older, I was obviously totally aware that the guys were attracted to the girls, while I was not. Initially, I thought my "boy crazy" period was just a stage I was going through, and that I would discover the secret of attraction to females and their body parts when I got older. But now I am very much older, and still going though my "boy crazy" stage, so I guess it ain't gonna' happen.

My male "role models" on television were always good looking guys, not gay acting guys. My earliest crush's that I can recall were George Reeves, (Superman), and believe it or not Bob Barker on Truth or Consequences. I thought he was totally hot and even wrote him a fan letter when I was eight years old or so. I was crushed when he didn't respond.

I later admired and lusted after, in my own boyish way, Tony Dow, Ricky Nelson, Don Grady, (Robbie on My Three Sons), Johnny Crawford from the Rifleman, Tim Considine from many Disney shows including Spin and Marty, and numerous other hotties.

None of these guys made me gay, but made me realize that cute guys were hot, and that girls didn't do it for me. I believe more and more that I was born this way, and that probably 10% of the population is "wired" the way I am, and it had nothing to do with any gay role models, or the way I was raised, or my relationship with my father. But it has been fun remembering some of the celebrity hotties that I was attracted to in my youth.