NORML and Marijuana reform/activism

[mikeyank]

Two guys I know, now in their early 30s, did way too much pot way too young (from 14) and are on bigtime meds now, living at home and helping with the dishes after dinner and de-ticking the dog. They are both mega bright and multi-talented and really badly unprepared for the rough and tumble of life as we forumites, models and subscribers, know and love it. Some people can't handle big doses when their bodies and brains are sprinting into adulthood, and some can.

This is a tricky argument Slim. Are these two guys the way they are now because they smoked too much pot when they were young? Or did they smoke too much pot when they were young, because they had some deep rooted psychological problem that lead to their wanting to get high all of the time?

When someone tries to make the argument that a large percentage of heroin addicts started on pot, I tell them that 100% of heroin addicts also started on milk. It is difficult to prove cause and effect in these situations.

I consider marijuana to be no worse, and probably less detrimental to the body and mind than alcohol. The reason people demonize pot is because it is illegal. From when I was first smoked in 1968, I was certain that it would be legal by the time I was an adult, as all of my generation got high, and we would be running the world in ten to twenty years. But a lot of my generation went corporate, had kids, and their values changed. We will see what happens in California, but I think America is still too puritanical, and l doubt if we will ever decriminalize pot, among other things.

 

[angelone]

I am proud of my body and spend a lot of time taking care of it. I eat healthy, exercise, take a lot of clear fluids and use medication only when it's necessary. But recreational drugs, alcohol, tobacco and whatever are a waste of my money and counter-productive to a healthy lifestyle. If someone else wants to indulge in these things, well, go ahead, I won't stop you. But I want to be strong, sexy and above all healthy and alert.

 

[slimvintage]

This is a tricky argument Slim. Are these two guys the way they are now because they smoked too much pot when they were young? Or did they smoke too much pot when they were young, because they had some deep rooted psychological problem that lead to their wanting to get high all of the time?

I knew one of them from the age of 6 and he was just a super cute kid who could draw beautifully at that age, totally full of life, uncomplicated, and showing no signs of deep rooted psychological problems of any kind. But of course since there was nothing to suggest he might have mental issues, his mother didn't investigate the possibility. He was turned onto pot at 14 by his older bro and smoked uncommon quantities of it from that point on. He's now pretty much unfit for use and schizoid among other things.

The other one was my uni student at 16 and 17. He'd been doing hash and tobacco from 15 and had no trouble getting all he wanted. He's, coincidentally, on the same medication as Storm even though he's in Barcelona and Stormy is in Devon. He's only just in the last year felt semi-comfortable being outside where other people are, and jogs, washes the dishes, does beautiful, subtle pen drawings and writes terrific poems. I'm his "only friend" and he's taken my surname together with his own "Carlos" as his nom de plume. He's called me about once a week for the last 12 years for advice and a report on his day to day.

Storm did his drugs with another boy, Piers, and he's in about the same boat. I don't believe in medical (or any other kind of) conspiracy theories. I hate it when conservatives pile on, waving their morals and their church membership as credentials for speaking out against liberty. But these three kids seem to have had their brains affected by massive blasts of cannabis at just the wrong moment in their development. At least that's what their doctors believe.

 

[Denny Bear]

We'll i totally 100% disagree on the recreational use, i've been smoking pot for more than half my life, so yes at 16 i drove while high (every single day) never got into an accident, never blacked out. If anything i believe i drive better when im high because it lowers my anxiety while on the road, especially when driving in high traffic situations. In california it is actually prescibed to motorists to help them calm down while driving. As for cigarettes go, they are a million times worse, marijuana may be "mood altering" but cigarettes kill, cause cancer, and are just plain horrible. who has ever died from smoking pot? there have been multiple studys proving it increases your short term memory, instead of decreasing. I dont think there has been a day since 2004 i havnt been high. i do everything high, i cant function properly in this world if i dont smoke, id be just as crazy as i ever was before i decided i was gona say fuck the prescriptions and just stick to pot. I think, that if a person wants to use it recreationally and be able to drive, they should have to take a course/test proving they're able to function while "under the influence". cause i understand some people cant handle it like others, and if that the case then they should stay away from it. cigarettes are the true gateway drug, not marijuana.

The medical benefits of weed are many and some of them almost amazing. I was watching a program on TV a while back and they showed how much good it did for cancer sufferers. In your case Mike I would consider you as more of a medical user rather then a recreational user. It seems you are using it for a purpose instead of taking medications which proves a point. Because of your constant use of it you have also acclimated your body to high levels so no you aren't as high as some other new comer might be. I knew a kid that smoked constantly and I defy you to tell me when he was stoned. On the other hand I knew an occasional user and if you just waved it in front of him he got funny as a Marx brother. This does allow you to function at a level higher then the average person. However, The use of it is also some what euphoric and despite how much more competent you feel your motor skills and reaction time would be decreased when you are under the influence. It just does not feel that way to you. Like watching a train go by as opposed to riding on it. I would also certainly never condone anyone driving under the influence of it. Doing so is recklessly putting the lives of other people in danger and that is just not a cool thing to do no mater how clear you feel. Also if you go out and kill someone or your self you add fuel to the fire for the conservatives that keep it from being legalized.

Also in reference to the dealers promoting harder drugs in your other post. It is sort of a case of which came first the chicken or the egg. No mater who turned you on to cocaine it has to some where always trace back to the dealer for if he was not there to sell it you would never have gotten it. So obviously Mike I am on your side I just see it from a little different angle.

 

[mikeyank]

But these three kids seem to have had their brains affected by massive blasts of cannabis at just the wrong moment in their development. At least that's what their doctors believe.

It is very sad Slim that these young men are experiencing these problems today, but I would still be leery of blaming their problems on their excessive marijuana use early in life. My belief is if that if this were a common occurrence, there would be more doctors and psychologists speaking of the dangers of smoking marijuana. Of course children of their age should not be taking heavy doses of alcohol or any un prescribed mind altering drug.

I did a search on this subject and found this article called "Young Adult Psychosis Associated with Marijuana Use"

http://psychcentral.com/news/2010/0...osis-associated-with-marijuana-use/11769.html

I found that this following sentence from the article coincides somewhat with my belief that it is very tricky to try to determine the cause and effect relationship between using marijuana and experiencing episodes of psychosis.

“This demonstrates the complexity of the relationship: those individuals who were vulnerable to psychosis (i.e., those who had isolated psychotic symptoms) were more likely to commence cannabis use, which could then subsequently contribute to an increased risk of conversion to a non-affective psychotic disorder.”

My question remains if these young men now have their problems because of their heavy pot smoking at a young age, or if they got into heavy pot smoking as children, due to preexisting, and perhaps undiagnosed psychological problems.

I am not advocating the use of any mind altering substance by children, but I still believe that pot smoking is a less dangerous recreational drug than alcohol or many prescribed drugs. I am certainly no expert on this matter, and am just giving my views based on what I have witnessed and experienced in my lifetime.

 

[broke-mikerobbins]

Just showing numbers

si sir, lets agree to disagree! lol!

the numbers.... did they show maybe like marijuana related accidents compared to alcohol/ other drugs?

 

[broke-mikerobbins]

Personally, I don't use marijuana. Mostly because I don't like being stoned, but I don't mind a buzz. But I don't see where it can be compared to other substances like alcohol. I don't think that for the most part people get stoned and then want to drive, unlike alcohol. Remember, alcohol is like liquid courage and makes you do things you have no business doing. Also consider how alcohol affects some people; makes some mean, others violent and just plain crazy. I don't see weed doing the same thing. Most people just want to chill when smoking it. Add to the fact the medicinal potential of it, not to mention additional revenue a legalized and taxed commodity it could be at a time when we need the revenue the most. There are so many reasons to legalize it instead of putting people in jail. The benefits far outweigh the consequences.

http://thehive.modbee.com/?q=node/5069

i loved this as for comparing the two.

 

[broke-mikerobbins]

We could order peyote cactus buds by phone to Mexico when I was a sophomore at UNC, but the lady at the Texas Cactus Farms had been run out of business by the time I got back to Chapel Hill in September of my junior year. I used it three or four times and had the typical psychedelic epiphany each time. Peyote contains (now I have to remember since I'm not gonna wiki it) an alkaloid similar to one found in strychnine which caused us to have painless stomach cramps, an entry symptom of poisoning.

Devil's Lettuce, when I've got really high, has always made me a little paranoid, as if I were in very slightly the wrong place with not altogether exactly the right people. The two most amazing experiences were a) being pulled over on a mountain road by the author of "The Marijuana Papers", having a huge joint thrust into my hand, and being told I just had to try this. Standing by the car I took one toke and sat down really hard on my butt without noticing my legs had given way, like someone in a snuff movie, as soon as the substance hit my blood stream. The other time (b) lol, was on the nude beach (Es Trenc) where I'd gone with two lanky German hotties who had their Rizla out as soon as we laid our towels down. They totally anesthetized me with something called "Thai Stick", a braid of grass that's dipped quickly in a solution of opium and dried for sale and consumption. They were able to frisbee whereas I couldn't move, except for my smile muscles. I heard them talking about me, one saying he wanted me for himself so don't try anything and the other saying he wasn't keen on the dusting of blond hair on my ass so have him if you want him. Smiling, supine, immobile, paranoid, flattered, stiff, nude, high as a bloody kite. It was a nice day.

To the point: I don't think I could drive and smoke weed or hash for all of the reasons above. Two guys I know, now in their early 30s, did way too much pot way too young (from 14) and are on bigtime meds now, living at home and helping with the dishes after dinner and de-ticking the dog. They are both mega bright and multi-talented and really badly unprepared for the rough and tumble of life as we forumites, models and subscribers, know and love it. Some people can't handle big doses when their bodies and brains are sprinting into adulthood, and some can.

totally the way i see it, if someone isn't ready or can't handle themselves on it they shouldn't do it. but to the point of driving, i would never drive when im so stoned i have trouble moving, or as i like to call it i'm in slow mo.... but what im saying, i take a hit or 2 from my bowl before i drive, im no where as nervous, ive been in quite a few life threatening wrecks, so when i get in a car with anyone (especially when im not driving) my anxiety is out the roof, i shake, i sweat, i grab the ceiling at every curve, i freak out. I almost died 2 yrs ago from wrecking my car and ever since i cant get in a car when im not high and be any sort of comfortable.

 

[broke-mikerobbins]

I am proud of my body and spend a lot of time taking care of it. I eat healthy, exercise, take a lot of clear fluids and use medication only when it's necessary. But recreational drugs, alcohol, tobacco and whatever are a waste of my money and counter-productive to a healthy lifestyle. If someone else wants to indulge in these things, well, go ahead, I won't stop you. But I want to be strong, sexy and above all healthy and alert.

would u use marijuana as a medicine?

 

[broke-mikerobbins]

The medical benefits of weed are many and some of them almost amazing. I was watching a program on TV a while back and they showed how much good it did for cancer sufferers. In your case Mike I would consider you as more of a medical user rather then a recreational user. It seems you are using it for a purpose instead of taking medications which proves a point. Because of your constant use of it you have also acclimated your body to high levels so no you aren't as high as some other new comer might be. I knew a kid that smoked constantly and I defy you to tell me when he was stoned. On the other hand I knew an occasional user and if you just waved it in front of him he got funny as a Marx brother. This does allow you to function at a level higher then the average person. However, The use of it is also some what euphoric and despite how much more competent you feel your motor skills and reaction time would be decreased when you are under the influence. It just does not feel that way to you. Like watching a train go by as opposed to riding on it. I would also certainly never condone anyone driving under the influence of it. Doing so is recklessly putting the lives of other people in danger and that is just not a cool thing to do no mater how clear you feel. Also if you go out and kill someone or your self you add fuel to the fire for the conservatives that keep it from being legalized.

Also in reference to the dealers promoting harder drugs in your other post. It is sort of a case of which came first the chicken or the egg. No mater who turned you on to cocaine it has to some where always trace back to the dealer for if he was not there to sell it you would never have gotten it. So obviously Mike I am on your side I just see it from a little different angle.

See my only problem with the driving issue is this, my best friends dad is a RN in california, he told me that they prescribe marijuana specifically for people that have nervous problems while driving... it's all about dosage just like with any drug. now if ur just a stoner and have no reason to use it, then you shouldn't. but if its a minimal amount administered via a one hitter or another smoking device that puts out minimal smoke, you wont get so high as to not be able to drive. any tests done on anyone dont apply to everyone. everyones different and everyone experiences things differently, i can tell you right now that ive smoke the best weed and the best hash together and still had no problem functioning, i have never been so high that i couldnt function, if anything i function worse sober because i have a chemical imbalance in my brain, and the weed corrects it. I DONT BELIEVE IF LEGALIZED ANYONE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO DRIVE, I THINK YOU SHOULD HAVE TO FIND THE MINIMAL AMOUNT FOR WHAT U NEED TO CALM DOWN TO BE ABLE TO DRIVE NORMALY, AND THATS ONLY IF U HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM WITH DRIVING, and i deffinitely think that if someone is prescribed marijuana to help them control their anxiety while driving then they should be required to take a driving test.

BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT, another big problem for me is people driving under the influence of prescription pills, vicodin xanax oxycontin klonopins any mood altering substance. any pill is worse than weed to drive on, its more pure and to me, fucks me up wayyyyyy more. and everyday people are out fucked up on painkillers driving around, and what about people who need them? well they have to drive to, but theyre still fucked up on vicodin and their reaction time is more than likely slowed quite a bit.

 

[jwglass]

for the past year my useage has certainly increased, so its made me think a lot about what im getting into and my past with this drug.

sophmore year in college i abused it to no end. we quite literally smoked 24/7 for a good 6 months. during that time i lost a good friend (that has this unreasonable aversion to it), my grades dropped and i was arrested. so for about 2 years i stopped entirely. my friend came back to me, i got my grades up and eventually graduated, and i paid off my fines and community service. but i was absolutely crazy. you would think that i learned that marijuana is bad, nope. i learned that instead of using it to get crazy fucked up, i need to learn how to find a balance that will still let me use it to sleep better at night and settle down with my ocd while being able to function. only on rare occasions would i get crazy with it, maybe once a week if that, and thats just like if i were to want to drink.

on a side note, i also want to mention how the hemp industry would be massively beneficial to the United States. It makes cheaper more durable clothing as well as other uses. the only issue is that cotton makers have banded together to keep its use limited. while the cotton industry monopolizes, its near imposible to allow the hemp industry to grow into mainstream.

sorry just some of my thoughts.

 

[jwglass]

See my only problem with the driving issue is this, my best friends dad is a RN in california, he told me that they prescribe marijuana specifically for people that have nervous problems while driving... it's all about dosage just like with any drug. now if ur just a stoner and have no reason to use it, then you shouldn't. but if its a minimal amount administered via a one hitter or another smoking device that puts out minimal smoke, you wont get so high as to not be able to drive. any tests done on anyone dont apply to everyone. everyones different and everyone experiences things differently, i can tell you right now that ive smoke the best weed and the best hash together and still had no problem functioning, i have never been so high that i couldnt function, if anything i function worse sober because i have a chemical imbalance in my brain, and the weed corrects it. I DONT BELIEVE IF LEGALIZED ANYONE SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO DRIVE, I THINK YOU SHOULD HAVE TO FIND THE MINIMAL AMOUNT FOR WHAT U NEED TO CALM DOWN TO BE ABLE TO DRIVE NORMALY, AND THATS ONLY IF U HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM WITH DRIVING, and i deffinitely think that if someone is prescribed marijuana to help them control their anxiety while driving then they should be required to take a driving test.

BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT, another big problem for me is people driving under the influence of prescription pills, vicodin xanax oxycontin klonopins any mood altering substance. any pill is worse than weed to drive on, its more pure and to me, fucks me up wayyyyyy more. and everyday people are out fucked up on painkillers driving around, and what about people who need them? well they have to drive to, but theyre still fucked up on vicodin and their reaction time is more than likely slowed quite a bit.

i hear ya! driving makes me freak out sometimes, but thats only if my anxiety levels are up already. as for pain pills, i really hate hearing about people that pop a crazy amount of pills and go on joy rides, one of my friends in particular does this a lot. and i see people everyday fucked up on caffine and ritalin. i work in an upper middle class neighborhood so you know they are more fucked up than usual.

 

[slimvintage]

totally the way i see it, if someone isn't ready or can't handle themselves on it they shouldn't do it. but to the point of driving, i would never drive when im so stoned i have trouble moving, or as i like to call it i'm in slow mo.... but what im saying, i take a hit or 2 from my bowl before i drive, im no where as nervous, ive been in quite a few life threatening wrecks, so when i get in a car with anyone (especially when im not driving) my anxiety is out the roof, i shake, i sweat, i grab the ceiling at every curve, i freak out. I almost died 2 yrs ago from wrecking my car and ever since i cant get in a car when im not high and be any sort of comfortable.

Most of what you write on this, your personal, awesome bloggy thread, just makes me fall deeper and deeper in love hahaha...god I would love to drive you to the top of Puig Mayor on the winding, hairpin road that's virtually out of use now the tunnel has finally been dug through the mountain. On just one little skinny joint and no more, just enough to keep you inside the car. It would be kind of like post orgasmic dick torture, remember that? Or a really malign carnival ride with random electronic manoeuvres. You are so totally fucking cute mister...I guess adorable isn't overstating it by much. Sorry about the near death experience. That wasn't cool.

 

[mikey99338]

"Everything in moderation"

 

[jwglass]

"Everything in moderation"

exactly, life is about always balancing between excessive and acceptable

 

[MissDeidra]

On another note...the only way I was able to get up the nerve to meet the models last night was to smoke a bowl....thank goodness....I might of missed this opportunity because I forgot my Xanax.

 

[johnuk1986]

I like this thread....

My stance on marijuana is the same as it is for all drugs, now this isnt going to be popular but hear me out. I think that ALL drugs should be legalised. This is something that i studied for a while back in high school and something i became very passionate about as a result.
I believe that if all drugs were legalised, then we would put the control back into our hands and out of the hands of criminals, gangsters, drug lords and the very dangerous columbian drug cartels. It is the fact that these drugs are illegal, that this type of crime is allowed to exist. When we put the drugs into the hands of these people then there is no quality control. Marijuana is about as safe, or unsafe however u want to view it, as alcohol yet you have to buy it from a guy who has grown it in his attic and god knows what has gone on up there. Ecstacy in its pure form is not dangerous, same as cocaine and heroin.. it is when it is mixed and cut up with other chemicals that it then becomes a danger.
People say that if we allow all drugs to be legal then it will open the flood gates and everyone will get high as kites... but really think about that. If anyone wants to get high, it is very very easy for them to do so. So if they are gonna do it then,l they will find a way of doing it. I personally have tried a variety of different drugs, pot, speed, cocaine, ecstacy, mdma etc the party drugs... But i know that if herion was legal, its not gonna make me go out and shoot up! if people are educated on the dangers of using said drugs like i was, then its not gonna make them do anything they dont want to do. #

I have entered into heated debates about this with many many people who are simply are just not able to understand my way of thinking. For example, My high School teacher thought i was completely crazy and was not going to allow be to submit my paper for finals... She thought my idea were scewed and and i was uneducated on the dangers of drugs, which was the exact opposite. It was because i was so well educated on the subject that i was able to see the clearer picture.

So my point is... If it is legal would it make u wanna do it? No, not if you dont wanna do it in the first place. Lets get rid of the drug realted crime by removing their market. Think of the lifes saved from drug related murders that occur every year. And do u knwo what the government could tax it - make money and put that money back into the education of children about these drugs. Another quick point - if you had to go to Wlamart to buy and oz of weed - it aint as cool... so the whole rebellion factor is eliminated also...

I could go on but i wont... Please tell me how u feel abotu this suggestion!

Peace and Love
Johnny

 

[mikeyank]

My stance on marijuana is the same as it is for all drugs, now this isnt going to be popular but hear me out. I think that ALL drugs should be legalised. This is something that i studied for a while back in high school and something i became very passionate about as a result.

I completely agree with you Johnny, and have felt this way for many years. I was influenced by a talk show host on WMCA Radio in New York, when I was growing up in the 1960's named Barry Gray. He had some very progressive idea's. However as he grew older he became much more conservative in his beliefs. But he made basically the same points that you are making 40 years later.

Taking drugs should be legal for adults, as are alcohol and tobacco, which also can kill people who abuse them. Hard drugs such as heroin should be dispensed by hospitals, to registered addicts. This would eliminate the criminal element, as you explained so well.This is not a very popular opinion, but it made sense to me when I first heard it years ago, and it still does today. Thank you for bringing it up.

 

[johnuk1986]

I completely agree with you Johnny, and have felt this way for many years. I was influenced by a talk show host on WMCA Radio in New York, when I was growing up in the 1960's named Barry Gray. He had some very progressive idea's. However as he grew older he became much more conservative in his beliefs. But he made basically the same points that you are making 40 years later.

Taking drugs should be legal for adults, as are alcohol and tobacco, which also can kill people who abuse them. Hard drugs such as heroin should be dispensed by hospitals, to registered addicts. This would eliminate the criminal element, as you explained so well.This is not a very popular opinion, but it made sense to me when I first heard it years ago, and it still does today. Thank you for bringing it up.

Hey Mikeyank..... Thanks for the support. It is something i very strongly believe in as i have known people who get caught up in the gang culture in Glasgow (wikipedia the Glasgow Ice Cream wars n u'll see what i mean) And these people end up dead, in prison or running for their lives. I cannot help but think what kind of life would this person had lead if they were not introduced to the seedy Glasgow underbelly...
Also funny u should mention Barry Gray - he is someone i often quoted and made reference to in my high school study - which by the way got an A.. must've been some old hippy that market it ha!

 

[joninliverton]

If they legalised all the drugs and let the producing countries get on with it then our troops would be back from Afghanistan. So I support that emotion.