normal

[mikeyank]

tampa, the worst thing about what happened at college was that I must have let him think there was a chance we might become lovers. Afterwards I tried to pinpoint where I'd fucked up, and there didn't seem to be any specific, definite moment, just a continuum of getting more and more acquainted and sort of "involved". He was in graduate school, and taught my advanced French class. I was 19 or 20 and he was maybe 25. He would give us assignments and then ask questions, or read a poem and ask questions about that. About the end of the first month he got sort of perplexed and almost shaky halfway through the class, and asked us if we noticed anything strange happening about the way the session was progressing. After a moment one of the guys said, "It seems like he's answering your questions just before you actually ask them; is that what you mean? As if he knew what you were going to say?" My classmate was talking, of course, about me, and there was some kind of telepathy in operation that I wasn't specifically aware of. The teacher, RB, said he was relieved that someone else had noticed it, that he wasn't going mad, and that we could take the last 15 minutes off, but that I was going to have to stay just for a minute after class. Tampa, I thought I was straight, and though RB was, in retrospect, quite cute (tall and slender, sensitive and brilliant) he seemed to me to be too obviously gay and I must not have liked that. The worst thing was that even though I knew that if I was going to do anything homosexual, that it was almost certainly not going to be with him, I was flattered by his attention (and by the fact that he thought there was this eerie, direct telepathic link between us), and accepted his invitations to have dinner at his place, and genuinely enjoyed his company. He was erudite and amusing and lots of other good things, but was hung up on me and I wasn't on him.

Listen, I actually can't go on with this right now. If you like I will PM you the rest. I come out really badly, obviously, and am ashamed of that, but it's not the reason. I just wonder if I don't lay all my gelatinous goo onto you guys in a very gratuitous way, stuff that someone with a bit more nobility would keep to himself. This forum is sometimes a bit more therapeutic for me than it was meant to be, and stuff like this sorry story takes up space that could better be devoted to more germane discourse.

Slim. I find this to be a most fascinating story and I am quite interested. I hardly think that it could be described as a story that "takes up space that could better be devoted to more germane discourse". You are talking about a subject that is quite germane to this website, about a 19-20 year old young man who believes he is straight, but has thoughts of trying some stuff out, and finds an older homosexual man who is very interested in him, even if the feelings are not mutual.

Please either continue the story here, or send me a copy of your PM, as I do find the subject matter extremely interesting. Thanks.

Mike

 

[mikeyank]

Jayman, you intuitively say exactly the most apposite thing. Everything you've written in that post goes far beyond the merely personal to a kind of universality, but the bit that touched a nerve with me is very concrete, the paragraph quoted in the box. When I was younger it seemed to me that I was some kind of a sexual jinx. Beginning when I was a sophomore at UNC a guy shot himself and left a note addressed to me, "It could have been so very different". It took a long time to get over, and made me extremely careful about how I turned anyone down after that. Over the next 20 years some of the guys I was together with had a way of meeting their makers in circumstances that brought back to me the sense of responsibility ever present from college. Feeling you must be the Grim Reaper is a very heavy and weird and freaky and tragic burden. I love you all the more for sharing it mister.

Slim. I was reading further back in this thread, and saw this part. If it was the young professor who did this, you must realize that he had deep deep problems, and your response to his advances would not changed his ultimate demise. You were perhaps the excuse to do what he did. I certainly hope that you have not felt guilt or blame for this, for all of these years.

Mike

 

[vicekid]

Commander Vicekid, Please I am nothing more that than a "Traveler." I travel through dimensional time and space on a whim, although I have not yet reached Q status, that holodeck simulation is childs play to walk in an out of. I have no intention of harming any lifeforms nor will I. I ma here to teach all the great secrets of the Universe. Incidentally, Mr. Crusher says hello. For your safety and protection I reset the command codes to avoid any unnecessary explosions.

Since when does a Fleet Admiral become nothing more than a "Traveler"? I appreciate the fact that you seem to be coming back to you senses. We need to get things back to "Normal". Why is it that every Captain/Admiral gets the feeling they can get away with the same antics as Kirk did?

Please continue on your assignment, and stay out of trouble.

Starfleet Command Out.

 

[tucsonjayce]

Fleet Admiral Jayman

Since when does a Fleet Admiral become nothing more than a "Traveler"? I appreciate the fact that you seem to be coming back to you senses. We need to get things back to "Normal". Why is it that every Captain/Admiral gets the feeling they can get away with the same antics as Kirk did?

Please continue on your assignment, and stay out of trouble.

Starfleet Command Out.

Report to Starfleet Command from Rear Admiral Jayce

Having consulted Starfleet Intelligence and pursued my own investigation thru some rather unsavory avenues I would like to report the following:

Fleet Admiral Jayman is a member of a galactic brotherhood known as the Brothers of Light. While this group follows a pacifist doctrine they do train in mysterious martial arts, manipulate energy using crystals and the practice of manipulation of light. It is the latter skill that has brought this group to the attentions of SF Intel and other races for it gives the practitioners a virtual personal cloak. The existence of this ability may be at odds with the core teachings of the brotherhood. One can readily see the potential for misuse if the individual is not a fervent adherent of the brotherhood's code.

Both the Klingon High Command and the Romulan Senate have confirmed this. It appears that Fleet Admiral Jayman has "ravaged" several colonies on the other side of both neutral zones. Apparently his prowess has been made into a Klingon Opera. The Romulans have named an Ale after him.

I am hoping that Admiral Markymark, Rear Admiral Slim and Commodore Tampa will have further insight in other reports.

I have nothing more to report as Fleet Admiral Jayman does not seem to have any vices or weaknesses that I am aware of to exploit.

Respectfully submitted,

Rear Admiral Jayce

Note to Starfleet Command:

Thank you for promotiing me to Rear Admiral. I look forward to a command of rears.

Regarding Fleet Admirals Jayman and Markymark, if I see a photo of an enema dispenser in any reports, I request a transfer to the Gamma Quadrant!

 

[Jayman01]

tampa, the worst thing about what happened at college was that I must have let him think there was a chance we might become lovers. Afterwards I tried to pinpoint where I'd fucked up, and there didn't seem to be any specific, definite moment, just a continuum of getting more and more acquainted and sort of "involved". He was in graduate school, and taught my advanced French class. I was 19 or 20 and he was maybe 25. He would give us assignments and then ask questions, or read a poem and ask questions about that. About the end of the first month he got sort of perplexed and almost shaky halfway through the class, and asked us if we noticed anything strange happening about the way the session was progressing. After a moment one of the guys said, "It seems like he's answering your questions just before you actually ask them; is that what you mean? As if he knew what you were going to say?" My classmate was talking, of course, about me, and there was some kind of telepathy in operation that I wasn't specifically aware of. The teacher, RB, said he was relieved that someone else had noticed it, that he wasn't going mad, and that we could take the last 15 minutes off, but that I was going to have to stay just for a minute after class. Tampa, I thought I was straight, and though RB was, in retrospect, quite cute (tall and slender, sensitive and brilliant) he seemed to me to be too obviously gay and I must not have liked that. The worst thing was that even though I knew that if I was going to do anything homosexual, that it was almost certainly not going to be with him, I was flattered by his attention (and by the fact that he thought there was this eerie, direct telepathic link between us), and accepted his invitations to have dinner at his place, and genuinely enjoyed his company. He was erudite and amusing and lots of other good things, but was hung up on me and I wasn't on him.

Listen, I actually can't go on with this right now. If you like I will PM you the rest. I come out really badly, obviously, and am ashamed of that, but it's not the reason. I just wonder if I don't lay all my gelatinous goo onto you guys in a very gratuitous way, stuff that someone with a bit more nobility would keep to himself. This forum is sometimes a bit more therapeutic for me than it was meant to be, and stuff like this sorry story takes up space that could better be devoted to more germane discourse.

Slim, First of all, thank you for sharing on such a deep level. This Forum has been therapeutic for many of us. Face it many of us still live in a world where GLBT people are still seen as abnormal freaks of nature. Yet we are all human and worthy of love. The Forum has helped all of us grow and become more self aware. The Forum has provided a support group to help us all understand just how normal we really are. Whether in PM session or not we will always be there for each other.

 

[Markymark]

Vice Admiral Markymark out!

Computer, open secured channel to vice Admiral Jayman on Tau Cigna Three, and have my first officer meet me in the ready room.

Number One, contact Admirals Slim and Jayce, at Star Base Nine, and have them leave immediately to rendevous with Commodore Tampa, on board Voyager II. Arrange for a long range shuttle to be placed at their immediate disposal. I will be taking command of the Dauntless III for this mission. Please ensure she is fully manned and outfitted for Deep Space, with a double compliment of offensive weaponry! Then report to me directly. I will be on the bridge.

 

[vicekid]

Report to Starfleet Command from Rear Admiral Jayce

Having consulted Starfleet Intelligence and pursued my own investigation thru some rather unsavory avenues I would like to report the following:

Fleet Admiral Jayman is a member of a galactic brotherhood known as the Brothers of Light. While this group follows a pacifist doctrine they do train in mysterious martial arts, manipulate energy using crystals and the practice of manipulation of light. It is the latter skill that has brought this group to the attentions of SF Intel and other races for it gives the practitioners a virtual personal cloak. The existence of this ability may be at odds with the core teachings of the brotherhood. One can readily see the potential for misuse if the individual is not a fervent adherent of the brotherhood's code.

Both the Klingon High Command and the Romulan Senate have confirmed this. It appears that Fleet Admiral Jayman has "ravaged" several colonies on the other side of both neutral zones. Apparently his prowess has been made into a Klingon Opera. The Romulans have named an Ale after him.

I am hoping that Admiral Markymark, Rear Admiral Slim and Commodore Tampa will have further insight in other reports.

I have nothing more to report as Fleet Admiral Jayman does not seem to have any vices or weaknesses that I am aware of to exploit.

Respectfully submitted,

Rear Admiral Jayce

Note to Starfleet Command:

Thank you for promotiing me to Rear Admiral. I look forward to a command of rears.

Regarding Fleet Admirals Jayman and Markymark, if I see a photo of an enema dispenser in any reports, I request a transfer to the Gamma Quadrant!

Rear Admiral Jayce,

Received your communication. Please await communication from Vice Admiral Markymark. He has a plan that should allow you to locate Fleet Admiral Jayman.

Starfleet Commander out.

 

[Markymark]

Man, this thread took a hard right turn at Sci-Fi Ave. Admiral Vicekid, I respectfully request that we move to a more secure channel.


Markymark Out!

 

[vicekid]

Man, this thread took a hard right turn at Sci-Fi Ave. Admiral Vicekid, I respectfully request that we move to a more secure channel. AGREED!!!!


Markymark Out!

Markymark,

That is an understatement.

Time to get back to "NORMAL" whatever that may be.

Vicekid Out

 

[slimvintage]

Slim. I was reading further back in this thread, and saw this part. If it was the young professor who did this, you must realize that he had deep deep problems, and your response to his advances would not changed his ultimate demise. You were perhaps the excuse to do what he did. I certainly hope that you have not felt guilt or blame for this, for all of these years.

Mike

I've felt guilt and have blamed myself for his death all this time because I genuinely think he killed himself for love, unrequited and (worse) semi-publicly rejected. He was emotionally hurt, but was also humiliated and insensitively outed.

When I always left his place soon after dinner, or if not soon-soon, at least before the conversation could wind down to the too mellow level that had made me uncomfortable the first time, he started calling me on the public phone at the frat house. Someone would usually have to come and get me, and it got so that I'd be informed that "your suitor", or "your admirer" was on the phone. I really hated that because it didn't square with the image I was projecting (I was the pledge master for heaven's sake).

The fact that I had a willowy, telepathic grad student dogging my tracks was perversely very flattering, but not exciting, and making me lose face before my peers. So I told my roommate the whole story with a heavy "I'm so cool" spin on it. He obviously must have told someone else, and even though it certainly wasn't in any way a campus scandal, I'm sure it got back to RB. Well, obviously it got back to him. In those days it was illegal. It would probably have meant his PhD grant and his teaching job if the story had spread to the administration, which I really believe it wouldn't have done. At least that's one of the little litany of remorseful excuses, and accusations, that I've lived with all this time.

I'd stopped accepting invitations and he'd stopped trying to get in touch but I saw him soon after my roomy-revelation, between classes, on campus. He gave me the most heartrendingly hurt smile as we passed each other. I understood in that instant the whole miserable chain of rejection and betrayal from his perspective, that produced that look on his face. It wasn't long after that he killed himself. It might have helped me to know that he had these other issues you mention, but that didn't happen, so the death was, in my mind, my sniveling, self-serving fault. The police kept the note quiet and the story stopped being news fairly soon. This is the first time I've told the whole thing, especially the whole thing with no glamor added.

It would have been so physically easy to let him have what he wanted, but every time I contemplated it just the idea sent my nervous system jangling into panic mode. So many times I've wished we'd just got on with having some kind of sex, (although I couldn't imagine then what that might have consisted in) and that by doing so, it somehow might have changed the course of events. Just another angle to the remorse. Thanks for reading this.

 

[parisnoyd]

I've felt guilt and have blamed myself for his death all this time because I genuinely think he killed himself for love, unrequited and (worse) semi-publicly rejected. He was emotionally hurt, but was also humiliated and insensitively outed.

When I always left his place soon after dinner, or if not soon-soon, at least before the conversation could wind down to the too mellow level that had made me uncomfortable the first time, he started calling me on the public phone at the frat house. Someone would usually have to come and get me, and it got so that I'd be informed that "your suitor", or "your admirer" was on the phone. I really hated that because it didn't square with the image I was projecting (I was the pledge master for heaven's sake).

The fact that I had a willowy, telepathic grad student dogging my tracks was perversely very flattering, but not exciting, and making me lose face before my peers. So I told my roommate the whole story with a heavy "I'm so cool" spin on it. He obviously must have told someone else, and even though it certainly wasn't in any way a campus scandal, I'm sure it got back to RB. Well, obviously it got back to him. In those days it was illegal. It would probably have meant his PhD grant and his teaching job if the story had spread to the administration, which I really believe it wouldn't have done. At least that's one of the little litany of remorseful excuses, and accusations, that I've lived with all this time.

I'd stopped accepting invitations and he'd stopped trying to get in touch but I saw him soon after my roomy-revelation, between classes, on campus. He gave me the most heartrendingly hurt smile as we passed each other. I understood in that instant the whole miserable chain of rejection and betrayal from his perspective, that produced that look on his face. It wasn't long after that he killed himself. It might have helped me to know that he had these other issues you mention, but that didn't happen, so the death was, in my mind, my sniveling, self-serving fault. The police kept the note quiet and the story stopped being news fairly soon. This is the first time I've told the whole thing, especially the whole thing with no glamor added.

It would have been so physically easy to let him have what he wanted, but every time I contemplated it just the idea sent my nervous system jangling into panic mode. So many times I've wished we'd just got on with having some kind of sex, (although I couldn't imagine then what that might have consisted in) and that by doing so, it somehow might have changed the course of events. Just another angle to the remorse. Thanks for reading this.

Slim, I'm so sorry you have carried this with you all of these years. I can understand how you could not have done so. Mistakes of youth. Back in the day, he had so much pressure put upon him by society, and his lofty position, that I can understand his depression. I agree with others. He had other issues as well. Try not to feel blame any longer. Easier said than done, I know. I told you about someone attempting suicide because of me. It was a half hearted, get my attention attempt, but still affected me greatly.

I think suicide, in many cases, is a big fuck you! I will tell you about a suicide involving my brother, his ex-wife, and a guy she was screwing. This guy did the biggest fuck you I have ever heard of! I'll tell you in a PM.

Rest easy, Slim.

 

[parisnoyd]

Book your ticket? Sweet Nothings? GRRRRR!

OK you two! That's enough, already! I'm starting to get concerned! Don't make me start writing blubbery notes to Jayman, or Vicekid, or Tucson, or David, or GL, or i2in69, or Gremlin, or Scorpio, or..... get the message? (You wanna talk about going green???)

Loving it, I am,

LOL, Marky! It was just a little harmful, ah, less, harmless flirtation.

Thanks for the laugh, Marky!

 

[mikeyank]

It might have helped me to know that he had these other issues you mention, but that didn't happen, so the death was, in my mind, my sniveling, self-serving fault. The police kept the note quiet and the story stopped being news fairly soon. This is the first time I've told the whole thing, especially the whole thing with no glamor added.

It would have been so physically easy to let him have what he wanted, but every time I contemplated it just the idea sent my nervous system jangling into panic mode. So many times I've wished we'd just got on with having some kind of sex, (although I couldn't imagine then what that might have consisted in) and that by doing so, it somehow might have changed the course of events. Just another angle to the remorse. Thanks for reading this.

Slim. That is a very heavy story to have kept inside you for all these years. I would hope that you feel somewhat comforted, just by relaying it to us in the forum. But I genuinely think that you are taking way too much blame on several counts.

First, you say that he had no other issues. Think about it. What normal closed man, (even back when this took place) would kill himself only because a man rejected his advances? And if you had "some kind of sex" with him, would it have quenched his thirst, or would he want to repeat it and further it along, if he was as in love with you, as it appears? Do you believe it is your obligation to have sex with someone to keep their sanity? I do not think so. You have to do what is right for you, and he is the one that brought things to a head, by calling the public phone in your frat house where a rational man would realize that it would bring attention to his obsession with you. This man did not act in a rational manner, and had to have other issues. I have "fallen in love", with dozens of young straight men in my life, through school and later work. But I realized that I had no chance with them, so I kept my desires and obsessions to myself. Your young professor friend had a problem separating reality and fantasy, and you were the innocent pawn. I really see it that way.

I am so glad that you are sharing this deeply personal and obviously important chapter of your life, with us in the forum. And perhaps you can look at it now from another perspective. You are too good of a man, to carry such a negative image of yourself, for all these years. You were a young man, living a straight life, living in an ultra masculine, straight surroundings, and you choose not to have sex with this man. You did nothing wrong.

Mike

 

[parisnoyd]

Slim. That is a very heavy story to have kept inside you for all these years. I would hope that you feel somewhat comforted, just by relaying it to us in the forum. But I genuinely think that you are taking way too much blame on several counts.

First, you say that he had no other issues. Think about it. What normal closed man, (even back when this took place) would kill himself only because a man rejected his advances? And if you had "some kind of sex" with him, would it have quenched his thirst, or would he want to repeat it and further it along, if he was as in love with you, as it appears? Do you believe it is your obligation to have sex with someone to keep their sanity? I do not think so. You have to do what is right for you, and he is the one that brought things to a head, by calling the public phone in your frat house where a rational man would realize that it would bring attention to his obsession with you. This man did not act in a rational manner, and had to have other issues. I have "fallen in love", with dozens of young straight men in my life, through school and later work. But I realized that I had no chance with them, so I kept my desires and obsessions to myself. Your young professor friend had a problem separating reality and fantasy, and you were the innocent pawn. I really see it that way.

I am so glad that you are sharing this deeply personal and obviously important chapter of your life, with us in the forum. And perhaps you can look at it now from another perspective. You are too good of a man, to carry such a negative image of yourself, for all these years. You were a young man, living a straight life, living in an ultra masculine, straight surroundings, and you choose not to have sex with this man. You did nothing wrong.

Mike

Mike, you absolutely hit on the major issue here.

He put Slim in a very awkward position. For a straight young man, this would be too much to deal with in front of his frat buddies. The man had issues, and Slim, they were not caused by you.

Slim, I don't for one minute think you did anything wrong.

 

[tampa24]

I've felt guilt and have blamed myself for his death all this time because I genuinely think he killed himself for love, unrequited and (worse) semi-publicly rejected. He was emotionally hurt, but was also humiliated and insensitively outed.

When I always left his place soon after dinner, or if not soon-soon, at least before the conversation could wind down to the too mellow level that had made me uncomfortable the first time, he started calling me on the public phone at the frat house. Someone would usually have to come and get me, and it got so that I'd be informed that "your suitor", or "your admirer" was on the phone. I really hated that because it didn't square with the image I was projecting (I was the pledge master for heaven's sake).

The fact that I had a willowy, telepathic grad student dogging my tracks was perversely very flattering, but not exciting, and making me lose face before my peers. So I told my roommate the whole story with a heavy "I'm so cool" spin on it. He obviously must have told someone else, and even though it certainly wasn't in any way a campus scandal, I'm sure it got back to RB. Well, obviously it got back to him. In those days it was illegal. It would probably have meant his PhD grant and his teaching job if the story had spread to the administration, which I really believe it wouldn't have done. At least that's one of the little litany of remorseful excuses, and accusations, that I've lived with all this time.

I'd stopped accepting invitations and he'd stopped trying to get in touch but I saw him soon after my roomy-revelation, between classes, on campus. He gave me the most heartrendingly hurt smile as we passed each other. I understood in that instant the whole miserable chain of rejection and betrayal from his perspective, that produced that look on his face. It wasn't long after that he killed himself. It might have helped me to know that he had these other issues you mention, but that didn't happen, so the death was, in my mind, my sniveling, self-serving fault. The police kept the note quiet and the story stopped being news fairly soon. This is the first time I've told the whole thing, especially the whole thing with no glamor added.

It would have been so physically easy to let him have what he wanted, but every time I contemplated it just the idea sent my nervous system jangling into panic mode. So many times I've wished we'd just got on with having some kind of sex, (although I couldn't imagine then what that might have consisted in) and that by doing so, it somehow might have changed the course of events. Just another angle to the remorse. Thanks for reading this.

Dearest Slim, I obviously agree with everything that Mikey and Paris have said so far. My God. That's a hell of a lot of shit to lay on a 19 year old kid!!! No wonder you carry scars from it. This poor guy obviously had a whole lot of problems prior to your meeting him.

You could go on torturing yourself over whether having given him some sex would have prevented the chain of events. Keep in mind thought that in that time period especially you were the one who was being taken advantage of. Even as a legal adult he was the one preying on you. There's a reason why administration doesn't allow teacher/student relationships even among adults. Gay, straight or otherwise. He held a position of authority over you.
If we gave sex to everyone in our lives who wanted it from us where would it end? We can't allow ourselves to be blackmailed into it for fear that someone might harm themselves if we don't let them do as they please with our bodies.

Even if you had given him a little bit of sex it would have been traumatic for your sexual identity at the time. And it might have made things even worse. As you indicated you didn't find him very attractive even with your own very dormant gay leanings. Even if you had been gay at the time it sounds like he would not have been your type sexually. And that's not your fault!! It's possible that sex would have only encouraged him to dream of even bigger plans for the 2 of you into the future. You were obviously not prepared to offer him any kind of relationship or steady sex. He may have come to expect otherwise and then where would you have been for trying to be a nice guy?

It was very selfish and unfair for him to lay all of his emotional baggage onto you at such a young age. And to leave you with something you have had to carry all your life. I blame him, not you. It's a tragic thing to have happened for both he and his family but it was not your fault.

 

[slimvintage]

Dearest Slim, I obviously agree with everything that Mikey and Paris have said so far. My God. That's a hell of a lot of shit to lay on a 19 year old kid!!! No wonder you carry scars from it. This poor guy obviously had a whole lot of problems prior to your meeting him.

You could go on torturing yourself over whether having given him some sex would have prevented the chain of events. Keep in mind thought that in that time period especially you were the one who was being taken advantage of. Even as a legal adult he was the one preying on you. There's a reason why administration doesn't allow teacher/student relationships even among adults. Gay, straight or otherwise. He held a position of authority over you.
If we gave sex to everyone in our lives who wanted it from us where would it end? We can't allow ourselves to be blackmailed into it for fear that someone might harm themselves if we don't let them do as they please with our bodies.

Even if you had given him a little bit of sex it would have been traumatic for your sexual identity at the time. And it might have made things even worse. As you indicated you didn't find him very attractive even with your own very dormant gay leanings. Even if you had been gay at the time it sounds like he would not have been your type sexually. And that's not your fault!! It's possible that sex would have only encouraged him to dream of even bigger plans for the 2 of you into the future. You were obviously not prepared to offer him any kind of relationship or steady sex. He may have come to expect otherwise and then where would you have been for trying to be a nice guy?

It was very selfish and unfair for him to lay all of his emotional baggage onto you at such a young age. And to leave you with something you have had to carry all your life. I blame him, not you. It's a tragic thing to have happened for both he and his family but it was not your fault.

You guys are very persuasive and logical and dear. But I know how it all unrolled, and none of the excuses you make for me actually mesh with what I remember as the evolution of circumstances that ended in this boy's death. Or those that began when he pulled the trigger.

He was probably a virgin. He was shy and sweet and sort of brilliant. And in the sixties in the South, at what was known then on the East Coast as Whisky College, nobody was very Out. I don't think he had any more idea of what we might have done with each other than I did, or maybe even less. If he had any "issues" that contributed to his suicide besides my callousness, I think they were no more pathological than a susceptibility to being keenly hurt by another person's cruelty.

You guys are right about catharsis, and hearing your well reasoned and logical analysis has helped a lot. To get emotional about it for the first time since the days that followed the discovery of his body has been both anesthetizing and purifying. You've managed to make me feel sorry enough for myself to weep and that hasn't been a bad thing. Thanks again, all. Love

 

[parisnoyd]

You guys are very persuasive and logical and dear. But I know how it all unrolled, and none of the excuses you make for me actually mesh with what I remember as the evolution of circumstances that ended in this boy's death. Or those that began when he pulled the trigger.

He was probably a virgin. He was shy and sweet and sort of brilliant. And in the sixties in the South, at what was known then on the East Coast as Whisky College, nobody was very Out. I don't think he had any more idea of what we might have done with each other than I did, or maybe even less. If he had any "issues" that contributed to his suicide besides my callousness, I think they were no more pathological than a susceptibility to being keenly hurt by another person's cruelty.

You guys are right about catharsis, and hearing your well reasoned and logical analysis has helped a lot. To get emotional about it for the first time since the days that followed the discovery of his body has been both anesthetizing and purifying. You've managed to make me feel sorry enough for myself to weep and that hasn't been a bad thing. Thanks again, all. Love

Slim, we weren't there, but I still don't think you should carry this burden. You told a friend you thought you could trust, what was happening. I understand this was in another time, and he may very well have done himself in due to the shame and humiliation. You didn't pull the trigger.

Awww, big hug to you, mister!

 

[tampa24]

Slim, we weren't there, but I still don't think you should carry this burden. You told a friend you thought you could trust, what was happening. I understand this was in another time, and he may very well have done himself in due to the shame and humiliation. You didn't pull the trigger.

Awww, big hug to you, mister!

Agreed Slim... We have had a chance to get a sense of your character over time. We know you are not the type to deliberately inflict mental cruelty on anyone. I'm sure that it was never your intention to publicly out him. This happened very indirectly and you had no idea, especially at 19, how this whole tragic story was to play out. How he chose to react to all of this was his choice, not yours. You were a victim in this also.

Big hugs to you Slim!

 

[slimvintage]

Slim, we weren't there, but I still don't think you should carry this burden. You told a friend you thought you could trust, what was happening. I understand this was in another time, and he may very well have done himself in due to the shame and humiliation. You didn't pull the trigger.

Awww, big hug to you, mister!

Tampa
Agreed Slim... We have had a chance to get a sense of your character over time. We know you are not the type to deliberately inflict mental cruelty on anyone. I'm sure that it was never your intention to publicly out him. This happened very indirectly and you had no idea, especially at 19, how this whole tragic story was to play out. How he chose to react to all of this was his choice, not yours. You were a victim in this also.

Big hugs to you Slim!

Thank you guys so so much. You can probably guess how much it's meant to hear you defending me and putting the whole tragedy in some kind of perspective. You are all so beautifully steadfast and unflinching in the face of my fuck ups.

 

[Jayman01]

You guys are very persuasive and logical and dear. But I know how it all unrolled, and none of the excuses you make for me actually mesh with what I remember as the evolution of circumstances that ended in this boy's death. Or those that began when he pulled the trigger.

He was probably a virgin. He was shy and sweet and sort of brilliant. And in the sixties in the South, at what was known then on the East Coast as Whisky College, nobody was very Out. I don't think he had any more idea of what we might have done with each other than I did, or maybe even less. If he had any "issues" that contributed to his suicide besides my callousness, I think they were no more pathological than a susceptibility to being keenly hurt by another person's cruelty.

You guys are right about catharsis, and hearing your well reasoned and logical analysis has helped a lot. To get emotional about it for the first time since the days that followed the discovery of his body has been both anesthetizing and purifying. You've managed to make me feel sorry enough for myself to weep and that hasn't been a bad thing. Thanks again, all. Love

Oh, my how I wish I could just talk to you right now... Instead, Offer you healing. I wish to send you some healing energy and light. You accept too much responsibility for that which you never had any real control over. Bless your heart. Please, remember that we all have and are given free will. You are perfect whole and complete just the way you are and it was never your intention to cause anyone harm. Please, let go and let God have that burden. Slim you are the best. Again thanks for sharing...