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Is the word 'faggot' offensive or not???
- Thread starter Jayman01
- Start date
I look forward to reading more of your posts in the future.
joninliverton
BSB Addict
Listen to the words of this song in particular the reference to the F word at around 2mins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41FNXkY9VZY
I think Joe hits the nail on the head with his "don't call me a faggot unless you are a friend". That is exactly what I was doing on the other thread, directing it at friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41FNXkY9VZY
I think Joe hits the nail on the head with his "don't call me a faggot unless you are a friend". That is exactly what I was doing on the other thread, directing it at friends.
panzer104
Active Member
Personally, the word has always raised the hair on the back neck. It is such a hard, piercing word just on the way it sounds, never mind the meaning behind it. There's no way to make "faggot" sound good. It's like Cunt, pardon me ladies of the site, no matter what inflection you use, it just sounds mean and jagged.
Though hearing faggot, or fag rolled off a British tongue, in reference to a cigarette (Brits, how common a term is that? I assume it is used lots, but you know what happens when you assume...) its not so, so bad.
Any word used to defame, deface or degrade someone, regardless of the "Websters Dictionary" meaning is hurtful and I fully agree with zyl84's last paragraph. To quote my senior year English teacher, "Words is words. People have a habit of making them more."
Though hearing faggot, or fag rolled off a British tongue, in reference to a cigarette (Brits, how common a term is that? I assume it is used lots, but you know what happens when you assume...) its not so, so bad.
Any word used to defame, deface or degrade someone, regardless of the "Websters Dictionary" meaning is hurtful and I fully agree with zyl84's last paragraph. To quote my senior year English teacher, "Words is words. People have a habit of making them more."
joninliverton
BSB Addict
Faggots and peas - A dish of meatballs, sauce and tinned marrowfat peas. I love 'em.
Fag - Cigarette
Brits don't use faggot a lot to describe gays, they tend to use the word gay or if they're trying to be funny or nasty then queer.
Fag - Cigarette
Brits don't use faggot a lot to describe gays, they tend to use the word gay or if they're trying to be funny or nasty then queer.
Jon, I do agree with you. I never take it personally coming from a friend. I know that they are just having a little fun for the most part. I guess I just ignore it coming from others. I do have to admit that I do hear it though. I just usually consider the source and it seems to loose any semblance of importance. It is mostly like what Panzer said. "Words is words, it is people that give them their meaning and or importance.
I am finding this thread to be very insightful and it has validated a lot of my own thoughts on the subject thus far. I can really only speak for me, but I think that we are all learning a lot about ourselves as well as others and their cultures as a whole.
I want o thank everyone for sharing. This is kind of like a mini sociology study of how one word can have so much power in our lives.
I am finding this thread to be very insightful and it has validated a lot of my own thoughts on the subject thus far. I can really only speak for me, but I think that we are all learning a lot about ourselves as well as others and their cultures as a whole.
I want o thank everyone for sharing. This is kind of like a mini sociology study of how one word can have so much power in our lives.
toddo777
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Rambling thoughts on the topic
This is my first time on this board and I was surprised to find such a well-thought-out and interesting thread. It's interesting to read the historical connections. Even if the current American meaning of the word didn't directly evolve from the earlier meanings, it's still fascinating to see the correlations between them. A lot of mystical traditions teach that symbol groupings of letters and numbers "vibrate" on different levels and share somewhat of a collective energy. I'm kind of skeptical about that type of stuff, but after reading books on Qabala and other traditions, I started to notice a lot of coincidences like that. Or maybe I just took one too many semiotics classes in college. Who knows.
Anyway, the use of the word fag is something I've thought about a lot. Personally, it's not the word that bothers me, it's the context and tone that it is used in. I wouldn't be offended at all if my straight friends jokingly used the word in playful banter. In fact, I'd be honored that they felt comfortable enough in our friendship to know I wouldn't be offended. We all belong to groups or have traits which can be lovingly laughed about without being offensive.
It's a fine line though between humor and offense. If I was in an argument with that friend and they called me a faggot out of anger it would upset me, not because of the actual word, but rather because I would assume that they said it in an attempt to hurt me.
I sometimes go on the chats on cam4, a camming site with all kinds of people - gay and straight from all over the world. I notice the word is thrown around a lot there. They classify the cammers by gender, not sexual orientation, so you've got a lot of gay guys cat-calling the straight guys, many of whom get really uncomfortable when they realize they're being watched by 200 gay males and few if any women at all. Some of them use the F word when they lose their temper. Even some females say things like "all the fags need to leave the chatroom, etc.". I do find that offensive, but out of curiosity I'll check out the profiles of these people and observe how they act at other times. A few of them I chatted up when things cooled down. Most of them didn't seem to have a problem with gay people in general and seemed to make a distinction between gay and fag ("a bad gay"). I'm not sure exactly how to take that. To add to the confusion - many gay guys on the site claim to be straight and a lot of the avatars are actually gay guys pretending to be girls. Plus a lot of the chatters come from countries where gay=passive/effeminate/transgender and doesn't necessarily apply to all homosexual men.
I've come to the point now that when I hear the word "fag" used in a way that bothers me, I try to soften the situation by jokingly telling them that I prefer to be called a fagga - like some people, both black and white, call themselves and friends "nigga". Personally I don't like or use the word "nigga". Many of my black friends say they don't mind its use at all by whites, but to me I'd rather not take the chance of offending someone. It's really hard to know how individual people are affected by words. Some people do appear to be overly-sensitive, but like someone touched on earlier, they may have a set of life experiences which created that sensitivity. IMHO, the reasonable conclusion is to try to be aware and understanding of others' perspectives. Most people just want to be treated with respect. What that means varies between individuals and sub-cultures, but common sense is (whoops, almost used the phrase "rule of thumb"!
) all it takes to know what is appropriate in many situations.
On the other hand, letting a word upset you is only giving it power. Railing against a homophobe using the F word probably will only make things worse. Sometimes you just got to shrug it off and take the high road. Bigots have a way of hanging themselves if you give them enough rope. Responding in anger only contributes to the negative energy.
The use of the word "gay" to denote something dumb, unpopular, ugly, bad, etc. seems to be more troubling to me than someone shouting the slur "fag". The reason is because it's such a subconscious association which perpetuates being gay as negative. Most people using it (including many gay people) don't mean it as a slur or statement, but it has become a meme which constantly devalues anything called "gay" in a very subtle way. That seems to be a far more dangerous use of language.
Sorry this is so long. Rambling is my way to avoid doing work, but my break is long over so I'll end it here. Anyway, thanks for starting an interesting topic. It definitely got me thinking.
This is my first time on this board and I was surprised to find such a well-thought-out and interesting thread. It's interesting to read the historical connections. Even if the current American meaning of the word didn't directly evolve from the earlier meanings, it's still fascinating to see the correlations between them. A lot of mystical traditions teach that symbol groupings of letters and numbers "vibrate" on different levels and share somewhat of a collective energy. I'm kind of skeptical about that type of stuff, but after reading books on Qabala and other traditions, I started to notice a lot of coincidences like that. Or maybe I just took one too many semiotics classes in college. Who knows.
Anyway, the use of the word fag is something I've thought about a lot. Personally, it's not the word that bothers me, it's the context and tone that it is used in. I wouldn't be offended at all if my straight friends jokingly used the word in playful banter. In fact, I'd be honored that they felt comfortable enough in our friendship to know I wouldn't be offended. We all belong to groups or have traits which can be lovingly laughed about without being offensive.
It's a fine line though between humor and offense. If I was in an argument with that friend and they called me a faggot out of anger it would upset me, not because of the actual word, but rather because I would assume that they said it in an attempt to hurt me.
I sometimes go on the chats on cam4, a camming site with all kinds of people - gay and straight from all over the world. I notice the word is thrown around a lot there. They classify the cammers by gender, not sexual orientation, so you've got a lot of gay guys cat-calling the straight guys, many of whom get really uncomfortable when they realize they're being watched by 200 gay males and few if any women at all. Some of them use the F word when they lose their temper. Even some females say things like "all the fags need to leave the chatroom, etc.". I do find that offensive, but out of curiosity I'll check out the profiles of these people and observe how they act at other times. A few of them I chatted up when things cooled down. Most of them didn't seem to have a problem with gay people in general and seemed to make a distinction between gay and fag ("a bad gay"). I'm not sure exactly how to take that. To add to the confusion - many gay guys on the site claim to be straight and a lot of the avatars are actually gay guys pretending to be girls. Plus a lot of the chatters come from countries where gay=passive/effeminate/transgender and doesn't necessarily apply to all homosexual men.
I've come to the point now that when I hear the word "fag" used in a way that bothers me, I try to soften the situation by jokingly telling them that I prefer to be called a fagga - like some people, both black and white, call themselves and friends "nigga". Personally I don't like or use the word "nigga". Many of my black friends say they don't mind its use at all by whites, but to me I'd rather not take the chance of offending someone. It's really hard to know how individual people are affected by words. Some people do appear to be overly-sensitive, but like someone touched on earlier, they may have a set of life experiences which created that sensitivity. IMHO, the reasonable conclusion is to try to be aware and understanding of others' perspectives. Most people just want to be treated with respect. What that means varies between individuals and sub-cultures, but common sense is (whoops, almost used the phrase "rule of thumb"!
) all it takes to know what is appropriate in many situations.On the other hand, letting a word upset you is only giving it power. Railing against a homophobe using the F word probably will only make things worse. Sometimes you just got to shrug it off and take the high road. Bigots have a way of hanging themselves if you give them enough rope. Responding in anger only contributes to the negative energy.
The use of the word "gay" to denote something dumb, unpopular, ugly, bad, etc. seems to be more troubling to me than someone shouting the slur "fag". The reason is because it's such a subconscious association which perpetuates being gay as negative. Most people using it (including many gay people) don't mean it as a slur or statement, but it has become a meme which constantly devalues anything called "gay" in a very subtle way. That seems to be a far more dangerous use of language.
Sorry this is so long. Rambling is my way to avoid doing work, but my break is long over so I'll end it here. Anyway, thanks for starting an interesting topic. It definitely got me thinking.
Toddo777, First off welcome to the Forum. I loved seeing this issue through your paradigm. Being a metaphysical person myself and a student of the Qballa (Kaballah) you really reinforced some things for me. I also liked the way you imparted the Universal Laws in general. I look forward to reading more of your posts in the future.
MissDeidra
Senior Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Y6orQQ8vuA
Please watch this video and you will understand my point of view.
Please watch this video and you will understand my point of view.
BiG,
I loved your post sharing the liberating experience of meeting so many like- minded people here on the forum with whom you could commiserate and find mutual support. I'm so glad that you took the plunge. Since you have obviously gotten so much out of the experience.
I loved your post sharing the liberating experience of meeting so many like- minded people here on the forum with whom you could commiserate and find mutual support. I'm so glad that you took the plunge. Since you have obviously gotten so much out of the experience.
toddo777
Active Member
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Thanks for the welcome guys. And Jayman, I'm glad to hear you have a background in the metaphysical. I hesitated putting some of that in the post because I know how crazy it can sound when one isn't initiated into that way of thinking. I was afraid somebody was gonna ask me what the hell I was talking about and I don't think I'd be able to even begin to give an adequate answer in a message forum!
joninliverton
BSB Addict
I have watched the video, but it is just the producers view and view differ. There must have been a hellova response to that as the responses have been deleted, which normally indicates abuse.
We all have different views and the F word does not offend me whilst in the gay community. However, if the word and other words like queer, pillow biters etc is said nastily, then of course it would offend anyone.
Footnote: The word motherfucker is used predominently in the USA, but it is viewed as very offensive over in the UK. Literally, I would actually state that motherfucker is a more offensive word than faggot.
My Point Of View On The Word "Faggot"
Ok, I saw this thread and have read everything an am now going to post my thoughts and feelings.
First off let me say I respect everyone’s opinions as their own and am happy they have shared their opinions whether saying it is offensive, it doesn't matter, or whatever your feelings are.
Next, my feelings are a bit different than some people.
Here where I live, there is a good population of gay, lesbian, bi, trans and queer youth (did I forget anybody? there are so many letters now...) and I am friends with many of them or at least acquaintances. We have decided instead of letting that word harm us we have taken it back and taken control of it and use it in a friendly way with each other and joke around and stuff. That way, when people call us things like that we can usually just shrug it off like nothing and not give the person the power by using that word.
Now I know many of you are probably thinking it’s not something to be used to joke around and stuff about. Well let me give you a little back story in case you think I am some young jerk for joking with that word.
I went to High School for 5 years since back in 2004. I know that doesn't sound too long ago. People try to play off that things in schools are better, well they probably are. Getting back on track now. During those 5 years in High School I got called Faggot, Fag, Fudgepacker, Queer, Demon, Devil, Evil and so many more foul words that I don't even want to write. I dealt with this every day up until just about my senior years (yes I had to do 2 senior years from moving, discrimination and other things). During my senior years at my new school I turned around from taking the discrimination and I started activism at the school and working to change things. While it started getting better it was still really bad. That is when I met my current friends and acquaintances when I learned to take back the power of the word and use it in a good/joking way with my friends to where it doesn't harm or have a negative connotation.
So if anyone wanted to think I was a little 21 year old jerk for joking around with the word Faggot, there is the back story of why I use it in a joking way. Take back the power of the word and take the power away from the hater.
Well, this is getting pretty long and I believe I have put my thoughts in and compiled it well.
Sorry if someone doesn't like my views. Please at the least, Respect them
Ok, I saw this thread and have read everything an am now going to post my thoughts and feelings.
First off let me say I respect everyone’s opinions as their own and am happy they have shared their opinions whether saying it is offensive, it doesn't matter, or whatever your feelings are.
Next, my feelings are a bit different than some people.
Here where I live, there is a good population of gay, lesbian, bi, trans and queer youth (did I forget anybody? there are so many letters now...) and I am friends with many of them or at least acquaintances. We have decided instead of letting that word harm us we have taken it back and taken control of it and use it in a friendly way with each other and joke around and stuff. That way, when people call us things like that we can usually just shrug it off like nothing and not give the person the power by using that word.
Now I know many of you are probably thinking it’s not something to be used to joke around and stuff about. Well let me give you a little back story in case you think I am some young jerk for joking with that word.
I went to High School for 5 years since back in 2004. I know that doesn't sound too long ago. People try to play off that things in schools are better, well they probably are. Getting back on track now. During those 5 years in High School I got called Faggot, Fag, Fudgepacker, Queer, Demon, Devil, Evil and so many more foul words that I don't even want to write. I dealt with this every day up until just about my senior years (yes I had to do 2 senior years from moving, discrimination and other things). During my senior years at my new school I turned around from taking the discrimination and I started activism at the school and working to change things. While it started getting better it was still really bad. That is when I met my current friends and acquaintances when I learned to take back the power of the word and use it in a good/joking way with my friends to where it doesn't harm or have a negative connotation.
So if anyone wanted to think I was a little 21 year old jerk for joking around with the word Faggot, there is the back story of why I use it in a joking way. Take back the power of the word and take the power away from the hater.
Well, this is getting pretty long and I believe I have put my thoughts in and compiled it well.
Sorry if someone doesn't like my views. Please at the least, Respect them
mikeyank
Long time forumite
I absolutely agree that by embracing words that are meant to harm us, empowers us. Excellent point Swm.
jwglass
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i understand what youre saying, but my thoughts on the subject are this, would you (if you are a white person) walk up to a black guy and call him an "n-----"? or if you are black walk up to a white guy and call him a "honkie" or "cracka"? some people do it that have a good personal relationship with the other person. i still dont like the word faggot, and wont use it in common conversation. i have even had words with my brother after i have heard him use the word. my very own brother, you dont get much more of a personal relationship than that. i guess its all personal preference. i learned that you take each situation, assess it, and act accordingly. if someone knows me well enough, they know not to use it towards or around me. ive even substituted in the word "fruit fly" for "fag hag". i guess my point is that if youre going to use the word with someone, know them well enough to know whether or not it will hurt them. some of us arent as strong as you. i am not strong. behind my words of sarcasm and strength is a weak, insecure boy, so when i hear that word, it breaks my heart.
That is a hard situation indeed.
Not trying to get into a war of situations, more just trying to identify with your situation is that when I was about 16/17 years old I had my father, not step or adopted or anything, my real father who I had known for all my life told me he didn't want a faggot for a son. That is when I moved out to my mom's since my parents were split.
So I understand your side of everything as well =)
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