Bye Bin Laden. Where were you when you heard?

[lubetube]

Mr. Nine,

CBS, NBC, ABC , CNN and PBS are all dominated by liberals and continually only push the liberal agenda. Anyone who doesn't believe that is either in Michael Moore territory or a non-viewer. FNC is the ONLY major tv news outlet that shows straight up news. And most of their opinion shows have liberal and conservative debate with the exception of Hannity and Glenn Beck.

The 6pm newscast offers straight up news BUT NOT SOLELY THE LIBERAL SLANT on things. If you don't believe me check it out yourself. If you only want the liberal slant then I can understand your frustration. But then IMHO you would want only propaganda and not real information.

FNC is not perfect, but it's far better than the other major outlets both here and abroad where the libs virtually run the media show entirely. In poll after poll mainstream media reporters claim to be 80% liberal, so their angle on the news shouldn't surprise anyone.

Slim, obviously you want the GOP to become the Democrat party light which would be a great thing for you. A watered down GOP would get it's ass (pun intended) kicked in every election.

In Spain, as with most of Europe, the conservatives more resemble the Democrat party here. And the socialistas, well that speaks for itself. I'm sure you're more suited to politics there than here. There is no FNC equivelent or anything close in the Spanish media or anywhere else in Europe. I suppose you find that a good thing whereas I would find it a bad thing if only the conservtive opinion was offered here.

And speaking of socialists just look what they have done with Spain's economy.

I'm awed that Spain will overtake Moldavia in 10 years.

 

[slimvintage]

Mr. Nine,

CBS, NBC, ABC , CNN and PBS are all dominated by liberals and continually only push the liberal agenda. Anyone who doesn't believe that is either in Michael Moore territory or a non-viewer. FNC is the ONLY major tv news outlet that shows straight up news. And most of their opinion shows have liberal and conservative debate with the exception of Hannity and Glenn Beck.

The 6pm newscast offers straight up news BUT NOT SOLELY THE LIBERAL SLANT on things. If you don't believe me check it out yourself. If you only want the liberal slant then I can understand your frustration. But then IMHO you would want only propaganda and not real information.

FNC is not perfect, but it's far better than the other major outlets both here and abroad where the libs virtually run the media show entirely. In poll after poll mainstream media reporters claim to be 80% liberal, so their angle on the news shouldn't surprise anyone.

Slim, obviously you want the GOP to become the Democrat party light which would be a great thing for you. A watered down GOP would get it's ass (pun intended) kicked in every election.

In Spain, as with most of Europe, the conservatives more resemble the Democrat party here. And the socialistas, well that speaks for itself. I'm sure you're more suited to politics there than here. There is no FNC equivelent or anything close in the Spanish media or anywhere else in Europe. I suppose you find that a good thing whereas I would find it a bad thing if only the conservtive opinion was offered here.

And speaking of socialists just look what they have done with Spain's economy.

I'm awed that Spain will overtake Moldavia in 10 years.

There are telltale signs in your discourse that you really are a Fox fan. I was almost sure it wasn't true, especially in regard to a guy in his twenties: the retrograde, misplaced right wing nationalism, the loyalty to cant, the paranoia, the gullibility, the dogged misnomer of the political party you guys hate so virulently, as a badge of your honor. Just the idea that the word "democrat" could be said, anywhere on the planet in this day and age, with a sneer, is disquieting.

I want the Republican Party to be the true conservative alternative to the truly progressive Democratic Party, not a bunch of media consultants for a far-right news conglomerate, and their sorry toadies.

The Fox-style far right is alive and well all over Europe, you surely know that.

Just out of curiosity, could you give me your opinion of Silvio Berlusconi?

 

[Smiley]

The 6pm newscast offers straight up news BUT NOT SOLELY THE LIBERAL SLANT on things. If you don't believe me check it out yourself.

I often watch it. I did again last night.

If you only want the liberal slant then I can understand your frustration. But then IMHO you would want only propaganda and not real information.

I don't know where you think I'm frustrated. I'm not. I enjoy the back-and-forth give and take of the left and right.

 

[tampa24]

I'd be careful with the "empty head" remarks about former President Bush, though. I think a lot of my liberal friends fell into that trap. They took his lack of eloquence as a sign of a lack of intelligence. I never found that to be the case. I found President Bush to be smart and quick witted. He often wasn't able to express it, and enjoyed acting the buffoon, but that hid a sharp mind. As an example, I'd take his pivot way from Cheney at the beginning of his first term, accellerating with Rumsfield's firing the day after the 2006 midterms and his lonely belief in the correctness of the Surge in Iraq, when even many members of his own party were rejecting that plan.

President George W. Bush's problem was that he looked at things too black and white for my taste. I've always found the truth lying behind shades of grey.

I understand the points you are making Smiley. Even though I don't agree with all of them. Bush liked everything in black and white because he was not capable of abstract thought to tie together any complex nuances. GWB may not have been as stupid as many of us liberals believed. But unfortunately for the country he was just stupid enough to be very dangerous and disastrous for the country.

For those conservatives who would already like to start rewriting history... let's look at his reign. He took over a government with a heavy debt but running a budget surplus. Principle on the national debt was being paid down for the first time in decades. Conservative dogma told him that he should cut taxes on the wealthy to stimulate the economy further. Reagan had supposedly "proved" that tax cuts paid for themselves in increased revenue to the U.S. Treasury. Even though the U.S. in financial parlance became officially a Debtor Nation under his watch. I guess all those $200 Billion a year deficits in the 80's were all a myth now.

We were attacked by foreign terrorists on 9/11 on U.S. soil under his watch. He took us into Afghanistan, routed the Taliban and Al Qaida...then let them all regroup in Afghanistan under his watch. He took us to war in Iraq under the pretext of capturing all those weapons of mass destruction. His ideology wouldn't allow him to raise taxes...even when he wanted to fight 2 far flung wars simultaneously. Much easier to just put it on the Chinese credit card.

He overthrew Hussein and then declared "Mission Accomplished". Then the steady stream of over 4,000 body bags started heading back to our shores.

The fact that tens of thousands if not a hundred thousand or more innocent Iraqi civilians may have died so far was of no consequence to him.

Then Katrina happened. He couldn't be bothered to get involved for the first whole week. Why? Because it was the week of the Labor Day weekend. Never mind that Iraq was blowing up in our face. That the country was on the verge of a full civil war. With U.S. troops fighting and dying to keep them apart. That was his "me time" to spend a vacation at his ranch in Crawford Texas. A place where he preferred to clear brush and play. After all, he had done so much to the country...I mean "for the country" that we owed him a vacation.

So a submerged and devastated New Orleans and Gulf Coast were left to their own devices for a full week. As the piles of body bags and rotting corpses there grew ever higher...

His ideology told him that government regulation was a terrible thing. (And to be honest there was a bipartisan effort to push Sallie Mae to make riskier loans.) But Bush was the one who pushed the hardest for deregulation of the industry as a whole. Claiming that all of these Depression era regulations were bad for business in this modern society. Then the "Invisible Hand" not only stayed invisible...it disappeared altogether. Deregulation and lack of enforcement of existing regulations...along with unbridled greed...led the whole core financial sector of a superpower to near collapse. On Bush's watch.

In the over 200 years of the Republic he managed to double the national debt in just 8 years.

So no. I have no respect for Bush's intellect.

 

[slimvintage]

Mi queridissimo amigo, te doy las gracias por decir con tanta elocuencia lo que todos lo sabemos pero que algunos no queremos reconocer.

 

[tampa24]

Gracias Slim. No me gusta secuestrar un hilo. Pero senti la necesidad de decir unas cosas sobre la jefatura brilliante de Bush.

Translation:

Thanks Slim. I don't like to hijack a thread. But I felt the need to say a few things about the brilliant leadership of Bush.


Did I overdo it or tell any lies?

 

[Smiley]

GWB may not have been as stupid as many of us liberals believed. But unfortunately for the country he was just stupid enough to be very dangerous and disastrous for the country.

And here we reach agreement.

I will not defend his presidency. It was disasterous. I just think that liberals, in their opposition to the man, are as demeaning of Bush as Republicans were of Clinton (Impeachment for a hummer - really! ). Bush II was certainly our worst president since Nixon. I simply think that to attack his intellect is misguided. Attack his policies, which you aptly did. I just don't think he was a fool.

Nice post, Tampa.

Defend this one, lubetube. Can I assume you are a small government conservative? If so, defend a president who took us from a budget surplus to a massive deficit.

And before you spout off, some research would do you some good. Look up "guns and butter" in Google. See how well that worked for President Lyndon Johnson and Viet Nam. You'll quickly find it didn't. The whole cause of all of our fiscal problems are the Bush era tax cuts. If Bush II had been willing to pay for his wars, we'd be in a lot better shape today.

(And it was Cheney who famously said that "deficits don't matter." Yeah, right, Dick. Go shoot somebody in the face, will ya?)

 

[MissDeidra]

I was in a pub getting shitfaced when my best friend Joe texted me the news.

Now. I want to see a better picture than the ones being released showing this so-called water burial by the prez.

?? !! ?? !! ?? !!

 

[tampa24]

And here we reach agreement.

I will not defend his presidency. It was disasterous. I just think that liberals, in their opposition to the man, are as demeaning of Bush as Republicans were of Clinton (Impeachment for a hummer - really! ). Bush II was certainly our worst president since Nixon. I simply think that to attack his intellect is misguided. Attack his policies, which you aptly did. I just don't think he was a fool.

If he was actually smart though can you only imagine how much worse it would have been if he were a fool? lol I will give you that he scored alot of domestic political victories over the Democrats in Congress. Because at times they underestimated him. Which he would gleefully point out. But in overall leadership and foreign policy he rode the short bus to daycare. With Cheney and Rumsfeld being his primary mentors.

I'm glad you realize that my post wasn't aimed at you Smiley. It wasn't aimed at Lubetube either. As I've said before, there would be no point in even having a forum if we all agreed on everything. Being challenged on our beliefs and opinions is good for all of us. It helps open our minds to consider different perspectives.

It just bugs me when some conservatives are already talking about the Bush years as if they were something to be nostalgic for.

 

[Smiley]

If he was actually smart though can you only imagine how much worse it would have been if he were a fool? lol

LOL. My head spins!

I also remember clearly where I was when the Cuban Missile Crisis took place and how I helped my father stock the "bomb shelter" beneath the stairs in the basement of the house knowing full well we were within the zone of total destruction fro our city if we were hit by a nuclear device.

As were we. A blast to destroy Los Angeles would have killed me.

I remember my parents being frightened, and that scared the crap out of me. Nine years old and I'd never seen my parents frightened. Three years before, I saw my dad walking the roof of the house with a garden hose, putting out burning embers drifting down from a nearby forest fire, the car packed with our valuables, ready to go, but that night they weren't scared. During the Cuban Missle Crisis, they were. My bedroom looked out over LA. My mother paused, tucking me into bed.

Years later I asked my mother if she remembered that. She said yes. She was thinking we all might not wake up the next morning.

Great post, juanjo.

 

[tampa24]

I was in a pub getting shitfaced when my best friend Joe texted me the news.

Now. I want to see a better picture than the ones being released showing this so-called water burial by the prez.

?? !! ?? !! ?? !!

I'm also very curious to find out which pictures we will see. It's great to see you on the board MissD.

 

[lubetube]

Slim, the 'Democrat party' is the party whose members are all Democrats (big D).To call it the Democratic party connotes the opposition is undemocratic.

FNC viewership is considerably younger than that of the other networks whose advertizers mainly consist in denture care products, laxatives and AARP. AS I stated earlier, the great majority of interviews and reports consist of pro and con viewpoints which is probably what disturbs you. The Left are not very well known for tolerating dissenting views.

I only have a few hours remaining on my subscription here so I appreciate the chance to offer a leftist an opinion he most likely would never hear on his own.

 

[Smiley]

I only have a few hours remaining on my subscription here

And that's a crying shame. Hurry back soon, Kev.

I love you.

 

[Ms. Kianna]

Slim, the 'Democrat party' is the party whose members are all Democrats (big D).To call it the Democratic party connotes the opposition is undemocratic.

FNC viewership is considerably younger than that of the other networks whose advertizers mainly consist in denture care products, laxatives and AARP. AS I stated earlier, the great majority of interviews and reports consist of pro and con veiwpoints which is probably what disturbs you. The Left are not very well known for tolerating dissenting views.

I only have a few hours remaining on my subscription here so I appreciate the chance to offer a leftist an opinion he most likely would never hear on his own.

Hmmmm. I hope that the comment about the "other" networks advertisers, is not a dig at our older members.

On a forum full of gay men, that want the same rights as everyone else, there are likely to be a lot more Democrats than there are Republicans. I can't help but wonder if.......when you find yourself in a serious relationship, and want all of those rights for you and your partner, you will find yourself scooting to the left, at least a little bit.

 

[MissDeidra]

I'm also very curious to find out which pictures we will see. It's great to see you on the board MissD.

Hiiii. I'm always here! And will be here until the end of October when my membership ends. ;-) It was nice chatting with you other night...we should do it again real soon.

 

[slimvintage]

Slim, the 'Democrat party' is the party whose members are all Democrats (big D).To call it the Democratic party connotes the opposition is undemocratic.

FNC viewership is considerably younger than that of the other networks whose advertizers mainly consist in denture care products, laxatives and AARP. AS I stated earlier, the great majority of interviews and reports consist of pro and con viewpoints which is probably what disturbs you. The Left are not very well known for tolerating dissenting views.

I only have a few hours remaining on my subscription here so I appreciate the chance to offer a leftist an opinion he most likely would never hear on his own.

Check this out lubetube.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democrat_Party_(phrase)

You're such a cookie-cutter sucker for the bimbo-brained fabrications that Fox feeds you, that I can't understand how you can be so adorable and perceptive in other areas that don't involve your politics. You're a pleasure to read even when defending the morally indefensible but you're an an actual delight when holding forth on matters pornographic. So it's perplexing as well as worrying to hear you parrot the rote, retrograde, dumbish Hannity-style prejudices and misapprehensions about progressive thought in the US that Fox provides you in their fair and balanced coverage.

You said a bit ago something about European conservatives being more like American liberals, than the true blue American right-wing. But there are parties all over Europe that occupy the political space well to the right of, for example, the Conservative Party in England. The male adherents shave their heads, wear heavy lace-up boots, tight, bleach splattered jeans or camo skinnies, Lacoste or Fred Perry knit polo shirts, and suspenders. They're covered with pretty good tattoos, skulls and swastikas are favorites, and are sneery about poor people, immigrants, gays, left wingers, you know, all the Fox targets, actually aggressively sneery and physically violent. A lot of them are hot, in a Jimmy sort of way. Their faces have the same expressions you might have found at some of the Palin rallies from last year.

The range of political expression is far broader in fact in Europe than in the USA. Viewed from several thousand miles distance it used to be that the Democratic and Republican Parties tetchily joggled for a space in the verifiable center of American politics, and their disputes seemed like pompous hair-splitting. Since Bush and the disdain for him and his ineptitude (see tampa, above) provoked a revulsive shift to the center left, your people are hurt, cross, abusive and united. Reason, however, is beginning to return. By November of 2012 the tea party mentality will be somewhere on the fringes, or forgotten completely, the country will have slumped back into the center where it's most comfortable, Obama, for better or for worse, will win by a landslide. You saw it here first.

 

[Denny Bear]

Gracias Slim. No me gusta secuestrar un hilo. Pero senti la necesidad de decir unas cosas sobre la jefatura brilliante de Bush.

Translation:

Thanks Slim. I don't like to hijack a thread. But I felt the need to say a few things about the brilliant leadership of Bush.


Did I overdo it or tell any lies?

Sounded great to me Tampa but I sure wish you boys would speak english. LOL

 

[Denny Bear]

Mr. Nine,

CBS, NBC, ABC , CNN and PBS are all dominated by liberals and continually only push the liberal agenda. Anyone who doesn't believe that is either in Michael Moore territory or a non-viewer. FNC is the ONLY major tv news outlet that shows straight up news. And most of their opinion shows have liberal and conservative debate with the exception of Hannity and Glenn Beck.

The 6pm newscast offers straight up news BUT NOT SOLELY THE LIBERAL SLANT on things. If you don't believe me check it out yourself. If you only want the liberal slant then I can understand your frustration. But then IMHO you would want only propaganda and not real information.

.

I hate to comment on this type of thread anymore as all it seems to do is just rock the boat but this is just too much. Lubetube with all do respect may I suggest that if all of the news organizations seem to be telling a different story then the one your listening to perhaps it is because the one your listening to is full of shit. Forgive me for saying but I am mesmerized to think that any intelligent person would not be able to see through the pile of crap that Fox makes up every day.

Now for the next issue and again forgive me if I step over a line but seeing that you’re a member of a gay porn site I presume that you are a member of our social society as well, or at least a supporting figure. My question is how can any person who would call themselves gay in any way support or offer praise to the Republican Party? Sir are you insane or do you just not realize that if they had their way you and I would not be here. By you touting their support in this forum is in the same face as if you were simply calling us all faggots. May I ask with that in mind do you also support Reverend Phelps?

 

[Smiley]

Denny Bear, there are gay Republicans, the Log Cabin Republicans. They are very active and hope to change the outlook and policies of their party. It seems like they are having some effect, especially within the Libertarian wing of the party, and certainly with younger Republicans like lubetube. Young Republicans are like young Americans everywhere, more accepting and less bigoted than their elders.

This is the shame of the current Republican party. It used to be the party of abolitionism, limited spending, conservationism, isolationism, pro-entrepreneur and against big corporate monopolies. Theodore Roosevelt, a great Republican, was a naturalist, a progressive and a trust-buster. Where is that Grand Old Party?

 

[tampa24]

Denny Bear, there are gay Republicans, the Log Cabin Republicans.

This is the shame of the current Republican party. It used to be the party of abolitionism, limited spending, conservationism, isolationism, pro-entrepreneur and against big corporate monopolies. Theodore Roosevelt, a great Republican, was a naturalist, a progressive and a trust-buster. Where is that Grand Old Party?

Where indeed is that great Party of Lincoln? While I am a liberal just as Denny is I must say that it is very possible for a proud gay person to be a conservative on many issues. For instance there is nothing wrong with a gay man or woman being a limited government fiscal conservative. Or even one who believes in the death penalty. If they have more isolationist views on U.S. foreign policy then so be it. I refer specifically to being against military intervention abroad, immigration, U.S. foreign aid, etc. You can be a pious churchgoing Christian and be anti-abortion. There is nothing wrong with being a moderate, a patriot and espousing many of the these conservative views. And being gay...

My point is that the current Republican Party gives lip service to all of these things, but only as wedge issues to polarize and divide us. It's all for the purpose of winning the next election. Once in office however those core values go out the window. Was there any fiscal sanity when Bush ruled with a Republican majority in Congress? That Republican Congress gave us a proposed $1,000,000,000 (with a "B") "Bridge to Nowhere" in northern Alaska. The same Congress is the one that gave us our start in doubling the national debt in Bush's 8 year term. Bush never vetoed a single spending bill sent to him by his Republican Congress.

Bush campaigned against the policies of Clinton by blasting him for his intervention in Haiti. That it was a misuse of U.S. power and tax dollars. Then he launches a "war of choice" in Iraq. No hypocrisy there.

Where was the sanity of a party that is anti-abortion but will launch a war of choice in Iraq that kills Americans who are already alive? I bring this up because I personally know of conservative family members in my own family who voted for Bush twice because they thought he would outlaw abortion. Given the choice though who would you rather lose first? A fetus of someone else's whom you'll never meet? Or a living relative you already know and love? One who is killed in a war started by a supposedly isolationist conservative? Not even just killed, but perhaps even worse.

The V.A. hospitals all over the country are filled with tens of thousands of very young U.S. citizens who fought in Iraq. They are dealing with minor injuries, critical injuries and worse. There are those who have been maimed, brain damaged and psychologically broken. We will be paying for their very expensive care for the next 60 years. It's very expensive indeed to care for a man or woman who has both legs blown off, a hand missing and has a brain injury. What kind of price will their family and loved ones pay?

I mention that last part because many conservatives and the Republican Party are eager to have everyone forget the last time they ruled. As if that was all ancient history now. And the slate is wiped clean. Their unspoken campaign theme in the last election might as well have been, "We're gonna get it right this time...Trust us." The far far right extremists of the Tea Party are just as pissed off at the Republicans as liberals are. Perhaps even more. Their unspoken campaign theme is, "We're gonna make SURE you get it right this time...Believe that!!"

The Tea Partiers rightfully don't trust the Republicans. Even though they have contempt for liberals too. The liberals rightfully don't trust the Republicans and they're scared of where the Tea Party may take us.

I see choppy waters up ahead.