Bye Bin Laden. Where were you when you heard?

[slimvintage]

In front of TV here in Palma, not long after Obama's announcement. I switched from CNN to BBC to Fox and noticed the radically different way each channel, with its own particular politically biased take on the event, reported the news.

The stingy lack of praise for our Kenyan born president, and the general, hollow-eyed, pinched face concern that this might be in some way advantageous to him next year, was obvious on Fox News. You just have to laugh at those clowns.

I'm glad Bin Laden is dead despite the fact that in many ways he's the kind of person I'd usually like and respect: studious, fairly free of ego, dedicated to his cause, charismatic but un-showy, intelligent, well mannered. It's one of life's contradictions that the son of a bitch, with all that going for him, chose to kill my fellow citizens in their thousands out of spite and misplaced revenge. Rot in hell mister.

 

[Ms. Kianna]

I was getting my son ready for bed, and everything ready for the work week, when they broke into "America's Funniest Home Videos" with the announcement. My first thought was, it's about damn time.

Too bad, that we are so far into everything over there, that our people cannot pack up and come home.

 

[Denny Bear]

Good question Slim, We had been watching something on the DVR and my partner turned over to see what was on live. He let out a hell of a holler when he read it on the screen. We turned over quick and got the full details on MSNBC. I also caught the irony as all the republicans and past Bush aids were touting about the wonderful BIPARTISIN Victory. Yea right!
Your question also made me think of all the other breaking stories I remember. They say there are certain things you will always remember. For us old fogies they are Kennedy assassination, the moon landing, and the challenger explosion. For Kennedy I was a kid in grade school and we saw our music teacher crying in the hall way then some one said the President had been shot. I stayed home from school to watch his funeral. Next I sat up all night and watched the moon landing with an elderly neighbor. The Challenger caught up with me while eating a pizza in a restaurant in Ames Iowa. I hate to show my age but it is fun to remember those three things.

 

[tampa24]

I had just randomly turned on CNN at 11:15 pm to see if they were saying anything more about Gaddafi's son being killed the day before. An event that I was not sorry over I might add. I only wished that it had been the son who promised to fight to the last bullet and turn the streets into rivers of blood for the people who tried to rise up against the government.

I was shocked and elated that we had finally gotten bin Ladin. It almost made me feel like an old fogey to think back 10 years ago to 9/11. lol He got what he deserved. I'm glad he was not captured alive. There will be no final speeches and tirades in court that he can use as propaganda for his cause.

I too was amused at the way Republicans tried to spin things as a bipartisan victory. 9/11 happened on Bush's watch. He's the one who vowed to capture bin Ladin dead or alive. In spite of 8 very very long years in office all he was able to give us was a failed war in Afghanistan...a bloody, costly and inconclusive war in Iraq...and no bin Ladin. Bush, Chaney and Rumsfeld get no credit for this whatsoever. This is Obama's and the U.S. military's victory. Of course in the non political sense it's a victory for all of us Americans now. So I am basking in that victory.

Just as we were so excited to hear about the capture of Saddam Hussein this is another great day for the USA.

 

[lubetube]

Slim,

I don't know which Fox News you were watching, but the FNC I saw had a very elated (and rightfully so) Geraldo Rivera.

By the way your eulogy of Bin Laden was so touching, since the "sell by" dates for Hitler, Stalin or Mao have been reached, maybe you can be as poignant when old Castro croaks.

 

[tampa24]

Lmao

 

[slimvintage]

Slim,

I don't know which Fox News you were watching, but the FNC I saw had a very elated (and rightfully so) Geraldo Rivera.

By the way your eulogy of Bin Laden was so touching, since the "sell by" dates for Hitler, Stalin or Mao have been reached, maybe you can be as poignant when old Castro croaks.

I turned to a different channel when a strident exCIA operative told one of the Fox bimbos that no, he wasn't filled with relief and elation, he was still rankling because a Democrat president hadn't finished the job of liquidating Bin Laden way back when, thus allowing 8 or 9 of his "closest CIA friends to be killed" trying to get him later. Phony partisan bastard, I'd know if it was 8 or if it was 9 of my closest friends who'd been killed in the line of duty. It's like saying I owe so much to 1 or 2 of my best parents for bringing me up with all the advantages they've provided for me. Fox always manages to provoke my almost impenetrable gag reflex.

You're right about Lefty Rivera, the only vaguely moral voice on the network, he and occasionally Shep Smith.

How would your obit for Fidel read, smartypants? Give us a preview just for fun

 

[slimvintage]

I had just randomly turned on CNN at 11:15 pm to see if they were saying anything more about Gaddafi's son being killed the day before. An event that I was not sorry over I might add. I only wished that it had been the son who promised to fight to the last bullet and turn the streets into rivers of blood for the people who tried to rise up against the government.

I was shocked and elated that we had finally gotten bin Ladin. It almost made me feel like an old fogey to think back 10 years ago to 9/11. lol He got what he deserved. I'm glad he was not captured alive. There will be no final speeches and tirades in court that he can use as propaganda for his cause.

I too was amused at the way Republicans tried to spin things as a bipartisan victory. 9/11 happened on Bush's watch. He's the one who vowed to capture bin Ladin dead or alive. In spite of 8 very very long years in office all he was able to give us was a failed war in Afghanistan...a bloody, costly and inconclusive war in Iraq...and no bin Ladin. Bush, Chaney and Rumsfeld get no credit for this whatsoever. This is Obama's and the U.S. military's victory. Of course in the non political sense it's a victory for all of us Americans now. So I am basking in that victory.

Just as we were so excited to hear about the capture of Saddam Hussein this is another great day for the USA.

I'll never forget the leadership our simian ex-president showed, videoed in that kindergarten as an aide whispered in his ear that the US was under attack. The vacant button eyes shifting and rolling, the 7 minute paralysis while his 3 brain cells tried to take in what he'd been told. Do you remember that bit of footage? And the shame you felt?

 

[lubetube]

FYI Slim, Geraldo IS a Democrat. But I think your problem with FNC is that they don't act as Obama's assistant press secretaries. It's the only major news outlet that doesn't push the liberal agenda.

Last night the American people needed news, and not an Obama 2012 campaign ad.

It's seems to me that you want a 100% one-sided TV news coverage like they have in Spain for instance.

I do give the president credit though for his actions. However, what would have happened if they had told him they could get Bin Laden and he didn't act? He had to act and I thank God for the skill and heroism of the Special Forces who got him.

Here's my advance copy of Castro's eulogy: YOU SUCKED! lol

 

[slimvintage]

FYI Slim, Geraldo IS a Democrat. But I think your problem with FNC is that they don't act as Obama's assistant press secretaries. It's the only major news outlet that doesn't push the liberal agenda.

Last night the American people needed news, and not an Obama 2012 campaign ad.

It's seems to me that you want a 100% one-sided TV news coverage like they have in Spain for instance.

I do give the president credit though for his actions. However, what would have happened if they had told him they could get Bin Laden and he didn't act? He had to act and I thank God for the skill and heroism of the Special Forces who got him.

Here's my advance copy of Castro's eulogy: YOU SUCKED! lol

Yeah, you're right, the right wing grind their teeth every time Obama rises above the pygmies in congress (to win the future, what a dumb slogan), and call it campaigning.

Do you agree with me that the old nicknames of Democrat and Republican have much less meaning now than they did, say, when you were 15? Fox News (together with Palin, Trump, Huck the Hick, Macaca Santorum) is far more sinister than the GOP of yore, when every 100th politician could actually lay claim to a touch of statesmanship. Obama bores me when he toes the Democratic line. He's interesting only when he's original. Currently Jon Huntsman and Joe Lieberman are two people who transcend by maybe a few centimeters the cant-ridden party credos. The tea party people are so unrefreshing, a movement that was worn out before it held its first rally.

Excellent on Fidel.

What do you know about the news coverage in Spain? Do you imagine that in some way there is some sort of state party line that's adhered to? Among the right in the US the use of the term European as an epithet reveals a mindset that was current before 1914, but over which we should have got by now. The right wing in America is at present so retrograde as to be dangerous.

 

[Smiley]

I do give the president credit though for his actions. However, what would have happened if they had told him they could get Bin Laden and he didn't act? He had to act and I thank God for the skill and heroism of the Special Forces who got him.

It's been fascinating to see Republican reactions today. Many are begrudging, like above. lubetube, you make sound like the president had to do what the military told him to do. Every account today says that there were disagreements as to how the military should act upon the intelligence that had been building that bin Laden was in this compound, and that a special forces raid wasn't decided upon until late March. Obama's famed coolness worked, letting the situation develop until the best option, the one that was acted upon yesterday, was implemented.

As a card-carrying Democrat (want to see my membership card in the DNC?), you should know, lubetube, I supported the first President Bush before, during and after his invasion of Iraq in 1991. He acted perfectly, and if I had know Clinton would end up such a Bubba, I would have voted for Bush in 1992 (I didn't vote for Clinton in 1996). My 1992 presidential vote for Clinton is one I regret.

Here, in my book, is an adult Republican's reaction to the actions yesterday.

From Politico, today:

Former White House adviser Karl Rove was puttering around a Philadelphia hotel room doing paperwork after a late dinner when he heard the first reports on Fox News. “Elation,” was how Rove described his first reaction.

“I would have loved to have gotten [bin Laden] on our watch, but that just wasn’t going to be,” he said.

“Every effort was made that could be made. History doesn’t let you pick the timing of things,” said Rove, who believes that Bush policies instituted after the attacks and continued by the Obama administration helped lay the foundation for the final set of revelations exposing bin Laden’s lair.

“President Obama did a remarkable job of leadership. It was a very tough decision” to opt for a special operations assault rather than dropping a precision bomb, Rove said.

<snip>

For Rove, the initial feeling of elation was soon muddled by “a taste of revenge and a lot of sadness. It brought back up 9/11 and everything that had gone on since then,” he said. When he learned that Navy Seals conducted the raid, he was reminded of conversations with many of them who had lost a team member in other operations. And, in the midst of that sadness, there was “enormous pride in the military and intelligence community.”

Rove said he will celebrate by making a donation to the Navy Seals Foundation, with which he already is affiliated.

 

[lubetube]

Slim the only thing that comes through from you is that it's okay to trash conservatives and not okay to go after liberals.

I'm starting to suspect you're a bit left of center. LOL

 

[tampa24]

I'm starting to suspect you're a bit left of center. LOL

I'm sure Slim has been called worse. Though certainly not by me.

 

[slimvintage]

Slim the only thing that comes through from you is that it's okay to trash conservatives and not okay to go after liberals.

I'm starting to suspect you're a bit left of center. LOL

Too right mate. My family on both sides have been Republicans since way before the birth of christ, and are sickened by the intellectual, moral and philosophical pygmies that inhabit the party today. I long to hear a right wing US politician say anything perceptive reflecting the realities of Americans' lives. I'd love to hear a conservative pundit put down the left in a convincing way. I have two that I listen to for signs of this, Charles Krauthammer and George Will, and sometimes they get it and sometimes they don't. At least (despite appearing on the DC panel show) they are so far divorced from the usual trash purveyed by Fox News that they can be read and listened to by sentient human beings. I may be an intellectual snob, a nasty identity for anyone to have to bear, but the state of the right wing is so lamentable, and its standard bearers so unacceptable, that I've decided to relax and enjoy it.

In the ongoing debate what's troublesome for the right is that it's impossible to denigrate Obama in the same way the left denigrated Bush. The whole "uncivil discourse" phenomenon began with critics of our simian ex-president using every rhetorical device and descriptive phrase they could dream up to keep alive his public image of buffoon. You could imagine their daily chortles of giddy disbelief as the poor fucker fell once again into the trap of his own empty vocabulary, and emptier head, in front of a microphone. The right has now made the mistake of pretending to believe that a nation's disgust with its former chief executive was partisan rather than intellectual, and tried to pull off a similar disqualification of Obama. I'll be fascinated to see who the GOP finally nominate. Who would you like it to be? There isn't anyone, right?

Required reading for a Foxfan:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Krauthammer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Will

 

[Smiley]

Slim, you and I agree far more politically than we disagree.

I'd be careful with the "empty head" remarks about former President Bush, though. I think a lot of my liberal friends fell into that trap. They took his lack of eloquence as a sign of a lack of intelligence. I never found that to be the case. I found President Bush to be smart and quick witted. He often wasn't able to express it, and enjoyed acting the buffoon, but that hid a sharp mind. As an example, I'd take his pivot way from Cheney at the beginning of his first term, accellerating with Rumsfield's firing the day after the 2006 midterms and his lonely belief in the correctness of the Surge in Iraq, when even many members of his own party were rejecting that plan.

President George W. Bush's problem was that he looked at things too black and white for my taste. I've always found the truth lying behind shades of grey. That can be taken too far, and is one of my problems with President Clinton ("It depends on what the definition of 'is', is."). Isn't it almost funny that one of the reasons Hillary Clinton has become so admired, starting with her senatorial term in 2000, is her definitiveness. We know her but I still don't think we know her husband. For a Secretary of State, a job that is total nuance and subtleties, she is has defined herself clearly in our minds.

Hillary Clinton came into our consciousness in 1991 looking like a fuzzy headed liberal. She is anything but. I similarly think the last President Bush will become viewed as a man of intelligence and wit, despite his mumble-mouth way of speaking.

And I totally agree with you on Krauthammer and Will. I love a true conservative (my parents were, too), and I also listen to Condi Rice, Joe Scarborough, George Schultz and Alan Simpson. I read more conservatives than liberals as I want my own beliefs to be challenged. Fox News is one of my TV presets, even though Shawn Hannity is an idiot.

 

[Smiley]

And for the last three years, President Obama's critics would have been much wiser to have protrayed him as a college professor rather than an empty suit, although they would have trouble doing that now after his performance this last week, where he dealt with everything from Donald Trump and the birth certificate, through monitoring a disaster of historical proportiongs in the South, to performing a stand-up routine for the jornalistic and political elite, all the time wearing the world's best poker face as he was plotting to kill Osama bin Laden.

 

[slimvintage]

And for the last three years, President Obama's critics would have been much wiser to have protrayed him as a college professor rather than an empty suit, although they would have trouble doing that now after his performance this last week, where he dealt with everything from Donald Trump and the birth certificate, through monitoring a disaster of historical proportiongs in the South, to performing a stand-up routine for the jornalistic and political elite, all the time wearing the world's best poker face as he was plotting to kill Osama bin Laden.

What a beautiful riff mister. When you're right, you're perfect.

On Bush we can disagree. Wit is a sign of intelligence, and Bush's jokes were ponderous, mostly aborted halfway through because he'd got them wrong, or not amusing even if they'd been told right. His serious lack of communications skills isn't something apart from his intelligence, it's a mirror of it. Bush's manner in public was that of a cute, privileged, saucy ne'er do well who expected to be liked for his winks, giggles and skater sign-language, as he always had been up till the scrutiny got stiff. Bush, with his low IQ, is the reason people whom you like, like Karl Rove, are rushing to poo poo the candidacies of other unfit pretenders like Trump and Palin, and even Bachmann. They know that Obama could have been far less charismatic, far dumber, farther to the left, and gay, and still would have beaten whatever Republican had been nominated by the GOP. Only a party that ought to be on suicide watch would repeat a mistake like Bush.

 

[Smiley]

Thanks for the compliment, Slim. You're might-bit insightful yourself.

Yeah, it is too bad that the Republican party doesn't nominate one of the grown-ups who, at least in the past, have been tempted to run, like Colin Powell or John Danforth. Mitt Romney is the best of a lousy field, and he's unelectable. The combination of being too slick, a Mormon and actually supporting both a woman's right to choose and universal health care at points in his life, make it tough to see how he can come up with even 50% of the Republican vote.

As for the original point of the thread, I was on the road all day Sunday, seeing friends far and wide. After a 350 mile day, with extended meals and visits over two states, I returned back home late in the evening. Sitting down on the couch to watch a baseball game, I saw a crawl on the bottom of the screen, announcing the big news. As tired as I was, I proceeded to be up most of the night, a joyful news junkie.

 

[Smiley]

I think your problem with FNC is that they don't act as Obama's assistant press secretaries. It's the only major news outlet that doesn't push the liberal agenda.

Last night the American people needed news, and not an Obama 2012 campaign ad.

Nor, does it seen, they want conservative-slanted news, either, when big things are happening.

CNN easily won Sunday night, topping Fox by 60-80%, depending on the demo. In fact, they had huge numbers, especially for late on a Sunday evening.

linky

 

[juanjo]

I have to say that I stumbled on the news by accident. I was looking through e-mail and got a flash message from a friend mentioning Osama has head butted a bullet. My initial reaction was one of elation and frankly I will never shed a tear over this man's death. But after my initial delight I recalled the words of my old Hebrew school teacher - in teaching about Passover he recounted the story that upon watching the pharaoh's army drown the angels in heaven rejoiced and were rebuked by G-d for doing so with the comment, "they too are my children".

Osama Bin Laden was our enemy and he was determined to do all the damage he could do to our nation and its citizens so his death was self defense. I admire the men who carried out the strike and commend them on their bravery. But I do respect the fact that as wrong headed as his beliefs may have been he did what he did out of sincere belief in what he saw of as right, not for personal enrichment or hypocrisy.

The comments on "I remember where I was when" made me laugh. I was in school as well when Kennedy died and I will never forget that day as long as I live. I also remember clearly where I was when the Cuban Missile Crisis took place and how I helped my father stock the "bomb shelter" beneath the stairs in the basement of the house knowing full well we were within the zone of total destruction fro our city if we were hit by a nuclear device. I remember watching the moon landing while visiting my aunt and uncle at their home in Southeastern Kansas. Judy Garland also died that week if you will recall, almost as significant to my queeny ass as the moon landing. ;-) The Challenger event took place and I was on my way to a meeting, driving down the road.

There are other events as well but that is enough. It is an interesting artifact of memory that even though one might not always recall the exact date, certain events do stand out and one recalls exactly where one was and what one was doing when they heard.