Aiden, Torin, And Steve II

[rifle]

"I am sorry in advance for having to say this" to all of you who think fag is acceptable in some circles. . .I keep forgetting how terrible my communication skills are and must apologize for any confusion or hurt the abbreviation of that sentence caused.

I am fully aware that some people find the terms affectionate or friendly or even welcoming to or among members of the brotherhood. So be it. But among the hundreds of young people I work with on a daily basis the terms are tossed like exclamations. What appalls me is, in my conversations with these kids, and in overhearing their conversations, some of them use those exclamatory epithets to make their anger and prejudice public and still fit in. In other words, if everybody else is saying it, you can say it and mean it and still fit in. Tolerating it in any public context is not helping the cause.

That brings up censorship. At no point would I indict David or Mark. We charge them with reality. Sometimes it's a little sketchy and hangs by a thread, but that's what we subscribe to. Torin was very real. (Whether or not he's hiding something is up for grabs.) But he was very real. We expressed our dislike for him. None of us expressed a dislike for David or his editing or his scripting or his filming techniques. We just did not like Torin. In fact, if this were Hollywood, David and Mark would be well advised to bring the little ShiTorin back quickly while he is such a controversial commodity. Art, and I happen to think pornography is an art form, I've seen it in too many museums and read too many treatises on it to not think so, should never be censored. If the pursuit and eating of food is the strongest of human urges, then sex and its pursuit is the second, so what better way to understand a civilization than by what turns it on and what fills it up. So we got a heavy dose of reality. The reaction was exactly what it should have been: those of us who've been victimized, cried foul; those of us who've not had to deal with it, excused it; and those of us who were turned on by it, defended it. I know, that's simplistic, so pull back your knives, but, in general, it's true.

Lester, do you remember Li’l Abner and feel-o-vision? I think one of my favorite moments was when Mammy Yokum didn’t like a singer and reached into the set, pulled him though into living room and slapped him around. Oh, to have been able to do that to Torpid.

As to Aiden, I have no doubt that he was hurt. It showed on his face; it showed in his posture; it showed in his voice. I also have no doubt that he’ll be back. He knew where he was going when he entered the futon. (It’s much like entering the forum – you know what to expect and from where it will come so you prepare for it.) I adore Aiden; I just wish this support had been around to give some encouragement to Nathan.

 

[slimvintage]

I just wish this support had been around to give some encouragement to Nathan.

Exactly. But I think the attitudes here have actually evolved considerably since then.

 

[jasonaz]

This has been the most interesting postings I have read on this forum. It is interesting to me how a general positive review of the scene which started this thread, has turned into a debate over the use of the word faggot, and the chastising of the conflicted individual who uttered it.
Including myself, 20 members have posted a total of 43 comments on this thread. Of those 43 comments, 20 were positive responses to the scene in general and in defense of Torrin and his performance in particular with 9 side comments about our dislike of Torrin's use of the "F" word.
13 comments were either neutral, or were retorts to individual posts.
The remaining 10 posts were vehemently unyielding aganist Torrin and his perceived intolerence.
It was interesting to me that these individuals were totally unforgiving or unaccepting of any justifications that were posted on Torrin's behalf by some of the members.
Perhaps it is because I do not allow myself to be the victim of another's insensitivity, I find it difficult to believe that some would give so much power to that word or the people who utter it. As the saying goes, "Sticks and stones can break my bones, but names will never hurt me" In truth, when I first watched the episodes, I did not catch the "F" words, what I did catch was that Torrin was not too happy with having Steve as a houseguest, perhaps Steve is a slob or any number of reasons could arise as to why the friendship was/is straining, I don't know. When everyone started going on about the use of the "F" words, I had to go back and listen to the episodes more closely in order to hear them.
One member writes, "So many details I would miss if I did'nt read your commets", I wonder how many other members missed that particular detail, but were alerted to it in this forum.
To me, the fact remains that if you walk around with your feelings 3 feet in front of you, eventually someone will step on them.
What really blew me away was the fact that the same individuals who were the most offended and unforgiving by the perceived intolerant remarks made by Torrin, are the same individuals who hope that Torrin is defiled by someone like "Diesal" who can exact "revenge" with a really "hard fuck" and reduce him to "giving $10. BJ's at the curb." I guess tolerence is a one way street.
With all that being said, I enjoyed this series immensley, with many a happy ending,while Torrin isn't the best looking guy we have had on here, he certainly is not the worst. He reminds me of a cross between Sean Penn and Keanu Reeves in a weird and twisted sort of way. To me, he was the catalyst to this series. Attitude aside, I would love to see him and his raging boner topping some hot guy again real soon. (sigh..wish it could be me) But let's not force him to bottom, let it come to him naturally.
Sorry about the length guys! (how many times have you heard that?)

Laterz,
Jason

 

[rifle]

Jason, absolutely without hesitation may I say yours is one of the most fascinating postings I've read on this forum in years. How wonderful to see all our opinions expressed in statistics. There have been many times I've wanted to do that, but have lacked either the time or the patience. It really gives a clear picture of the divisions on this subject. I wish we could toss one or two more demographics into it and chart age and maybe some form of background. Age because I think some of us who responded so negatively have been alive during times when the word was seldom spoken in public and always utterred with deepest denigration by those who spat it like it was acid. No matter that it now is heard on prime time television, to us it still burns. I wish you hadn't said we were wearing our feelings three feet in front of us because, in truth, most of were angered not by Torin's attacks on us, but by his attacks on Aiden. Some of us sensitive old farts still feel inordinately protective of you young whippersnappers.

As to wishing Torin an unhappy end - I think most of that was metaphoric. I have to frankly say I don't like to see anyone in pain. (Though there is that teeny little nagging idea in the back of my head that says Torin is not what he says he is, but that's as hypothetical as all the other ideas people have put forth about his relationship with Steve. They're all made up to suit the fantasy or theory or interpretation we put forth.)

I do think your last paragraph did prove one of my points. You found him attractive and therefore you're defending him. That's okay - God Bless Patsy Cline!

Anyway, again, an excellent posting with much food for thought. I hope you'll keep doing this for us - make us confront our divisions statistically. Its healthy and a splendid idea! (And usually when people say 'sorry about the length' they're talking about it being too short!)

 

[tampa24]

Rifle,

You and Slim bring up an excellent point that got glossed over in the debate regarding Torin's homophobia, the "F" word, etc. Since this thread will inevitably wind down with the release of newer vids, I think we should strongly voice our support for Aiden. I'll be the first to admit that I have not always been thrilled with the choice of gay models in the past. With Aiden though I think David has hit one out of the park.

If you want to see more of Aiden in the future please post and let David know. After all the grief Aiden took at the hands of Torin in these scenes please show him some love guys. He gave great performances for us. My feelings for him vacillated between wanting to jump his bones (LOL)...to wanting to hug and console him like a dear kid brother who had been bullied at school.

Please Bring Aiden Back!!

And Offer Him More Money. ​

He is due some back combat pay for all the abuse he took in this series.

 

[baal]

As cute as Aiden #87 was, I'd rather see more straight boys led astray than any repeats of him, Danny, or Nelson...

 

[jasonaz]

Jason, absolutely without hesitation may I say yours is one of the most fascinating postings I've read on this forum in years. How wonderful to see all our opinions expressed in statistics. There have been many times I've wanted to do that, but have lacked either the time or the patience. It really gives a clear picture of the divisions on this subject. I wish we could toss one or two more demographics into it and chart age and maybe some form of background. Age because I think some of us who responded so negatively have been alive during times when the word was seldom spoken in public and always utterred with deepest denigration by those who spat it like it was acid. No matter that it now is heard on prime time television, to us it still burns. I wish you hadn't said we were wearing our feelings three feet in front of us because, in truth, most of were angered not by Torin's attacks on us, but by his attacks on Aiden. Some of us sensitive old farts still feel inordinately protective of you young whippersnappers.

As to wishing Torin an unhappy end - I think most of that was metaphoric. I have to frankly say I don't like to see anyone in pain. (Though there is that teeny little nagging idea in the back of my head that says Torin is not what he says he is, but that's as hypothetical as all the other ideas people have put forth about his relationship with Steve. They're all made up to suit the fantasy or theory or interpretation we put forth.)

I do think your last paragraph did prove one of my points. You found him attractive and therefore you're defending him. That's okay - God Bless Patsy Cline!

Anyway, again, an excellent posting with much food for thought. I hope you'll keep doing this for us - make us confront our divisions statistically. Its healthy and a splendid idea! (And usually when people say 'sorry about the length' they're talking about it being too short!)

Right back at ya Rifle. As eloquent as ever. Thank you for ending my day with a chuckle and an LOL!
Is that what they mean by a Happy Ending?

Laterz,
Jason

 

[LesterM]

Dear jason
\Since it was my post you were quoting i will put you at ease I do not wish Torin pain in spite of the obvious pain he inflicted both on his roommate and Aiden. I am glad you found him attractive, I did not I hope if he is indeed conflicted and is an alcoholic that he finds help. I was indeed being metophoric as Rifle said. I also hope you are never confronted with the kind of hate so many of our brothers and sister have seen Peace to you

 

[Jayman01]

Wow, I missed a lot. Jason, great summary... Rifle you also did a great job helping us understand the reason we hate that "F" word so much. I remember one day I was running my first support group for people living with HIV.

This wonderful black man walked into the room and said, "Holly fuck, you mean the only support group here is full of fagots."

Yikes, after that you could have heard a pin drop.

Then a veteran of the group walked over to this wonderful black man and said, "Fagot, is that spelled with two "g's" like nigger."

The wonderful young black man looked at him and said, "you have your nerve, fagot."

Then the group leader said, "So, are we going to argue about the "g" issue all night or talk about how to live with HIV."

The wonderful young black man said, "I get your point. Let's get this meeting started."

Believe it or not those two became the best of friends. Sometimes labels can be painful to read, hear, or even wear. None the less we have all had to endure; whether the label be: fagot, gay, nigger, cracker, dork, geek, sped, nerd, etc... I think that we have all learned how a simple word can invoke our deepest emotions and fears...

It doesn't matter what brings us to the lesson; only what we leave with....

 

[joninliverton]

Dear jason
\Since it was my post you were quoting i will put you at ease I do not wish Torin pain in spite of the obvious pain he inflicted both on his roommate and Aiden. I am glad you found him attractive, I did not I hope if he is indeed conflicted and is an alcoholic that he finds help. I was indeed being metophoric as Rifle said. I also hope you are never confronted with the kind of hate so many of our brothers and sister have seen Peace to you

I don't think Lester really wished Torin any pain and neither did I, it was an off the cuff remark (which I backed up) because the way Torin spoke and his general demeanor towards Aiden. I'm really not impressed with statistics or graphs tbh, we all pay our membership fees and we are all entitled to our opinion. I don't care if 1000 people commented on how well Torin fucked, I would still back the minority and comment on what seems to be the main issue on this thread - homophobia and greed.

Anyway with 4 or 5 threads on this subject I guess it's time to move on and wait for the next episode to "bring us all together".

 

[ncheat]

yay for Aiden

I want to stand with Tampa and give my support for Aiden and him coming back on here. He is a great guy and his personality can only "enflame" the biggest homophobe.

 

[slimvintage]

i want to stand with tampa and give my support for aiden and him coming back on here. He is a great guy and his personality can only "enflame" the biggest homophobe.

ok David Adamson you've got the message. First thing on your return from that romantic break with Eduardo: please book Aiden for a bunch more shoots. A lot of us depend on his return to the futon

​

for the fun he provides and the cum he provokes. And how was your vacation?​

 

[jasonaz]

I don't think Lester really wished Torin any pain and neither did I, it was an off the cuff remark (which I backed up) because the way Torin spoke and his general demeanor towards Aiden. I'm really not impressed with statistics or graphs tbh, we all pay our membership fees and we are all entitled to our opinion. I don't care if 1000 people commented on how well Torin fucked, I would still back the minority and comment on what seems to be the main issue on this thread - homophobia and greed.

Anyway with 4 or 5 threads on this subject I guess it's time to move on and wait for the next episode to "bring us all together".

One only needs to read the first 20 words of the above post to understand the point I was trying to make.
Substitute the name Lester with the name Torrin and the name Torin with the name Aiden, is the statement still acceptable? It should be, and if it is not, then why not? Can you honestly say that Torin was delibertly trying to hurt any one individual or group of individuals by using the "F" word, or was it an "off the cuff remark" that we took offense to. Do you truly beleive that Torrin is of the same ilk that would go around gay bashing and spreading hate aganist gays simply because he chose to use the "F" word on camera? Did he not freely admit that he had gay friends in the first interview when his guard was down?
Was he insensitive in his choice of words? Absoulutely! Is he a learned student of this p.c. world? Probably not. Did he intend to hurt by using the "F" word in the context in which it was used? I don't think so, he did say "No offense yo, but if you turn into a fag.....". Did he intend to demean? Probably a little. But are we not guilty of the same, when we wish hurt upon him, even if it was just an "off the cuff remark" Should we not be held to the same standards that we place upon others?
I will say it again, that word can only be as powerfull as we let it be. If we choose to let the WORD hurt or offend us everytime we hear it, then it will. Not everyone who utters the "F" word is a hate mongeror, and we need to be cognizant of that.
I made a statement that Torin seemed conflicted, and I think that because of a statement he made that no one seemed to pick up on or chose not to acknowledge. When Daid asked the roomies how this experience had affected them, Steve said it had opened him up to new things he never had experienced before.."if I did'nt like it, I would'nt have come back". Torrin's reply was "The only thing it's opened up for me, is a door to a long, dark hallway where I can curl myself up into a little ball" That's a pretty intense statement. We could start a whole new thread on what that could possibly mean or where it came from. Could it be that gay sex had been thrust upon him unwillingly at some point, or possibly been molested? Maybe it stems from a moral dilemma, where he has become self hating for liking gay sex when his upbringing tells him it's wrong. His hard cock sure seems to indicate he likes it, and would he have come back if he didn't? Perhaps he himself has been the victim of intolerence. Perhaps it is we who were intolerant of him.

As an aside, I was not trying to impress anyone by posting the stats, I was home, sick with the flu and with too much time on my hands, and I wanted to prove to myself that I was not the only one who liked the episode(s)
And yes, we are ALL entitled to our opinions, even me.
"I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight to the death, your right to say it!" Rifle, who said that?

Laterz,
Jason

P.S. For the record I am not attracted to Torin, I liked his performance, the boy can fuck, and he was probably holding back a bit. I'd bottom for him, I am not ashamed to admit it, are you? - J

 

[joninliverton]

Jason,

""No offense yo, but if you turn into a fag.....".

and the rest of the remark was that he'd throw him out of his flat.. nice person.. I wonder whether he'd have invited Steve to live in his flat if he was gay..... Exactly.


I made a statement that Torin seemed conflicted, and I think that because of a statement he made that no one seemed to pick up on or chose not to acknowledge. When Daid asked the roomies how this experience had affected them, Steve said it had opened him up to new things he never had experienced before.."if I did'nt like it, I would'nt have come back". Torrin's reply was "The only thing it's opened up for me, is a door to a long, dark hallway where I can curl myself up into a little ball" That's a pretty intense statement"

I think that last statement has something to do with his alcohol dependency and not the fact that his stomach is so churned up because of what he's done on Broke Straight Boys There is also the fact that he may have been going through hard times with his gf because Steve was staying at his house. Maybe a mixture of Broke Straight Boys, the booze and the household arrangements forced Torin's gf to move out - who could blame her.

Maybe we should make this episode into a novel as it's headed that way anyway, or would it be fiction. We will never know what the underlying issues are regarding Torin, we can only surmise.

 

[LesterM]

Oh Jason I think you are just a tiny bit naive here and yes I think the statement was meant to hurt and it seemed to have hit its mark And i would absolutely in no way under no circumstances bottom for him or anyone else who has no respect We have all had trouble in our lives and i dont know of one single person who had the "American Dream Childhood" That does not give a license for such behavior scripted or not Again my feelings only Jason, Listen, Do you really think I mean harm to him I was responding to his hateful words and behavior , he initiated that behavior I do not think, at least i would like to believe that no one forced him to use the word"faggot" or slam his supposed friend and room mate We will not agree i respect you opinion I guess you and I have different tolerance levels

 

[jasonaz]

Oh Jason I think you are just a tiny bit naive here and yes I think the statement was meant to hurt and it seemed to have hit its mark And i would absolutely in no way under no circumstances bottom for him or anyone else who has no respect We have all had trouble in our lives and i dont know of one single person who had the "American Dream Childhood" That does not give a license for such behavior scripted or not Again my feelings only Jason, Listen, Do you really think I mean harm to him I was responding to his hateful words and behavior , he initiated that behavior I do not think, at least i would like to believe that no one forced him to use the word"faggot" or slam his supposed friend and room mate We will not agree i respect you opinion I guess you and I have different tolerance levels

Well John and Lester,
I guess we have reached a point where we are just going to have to agree to disagree. It has become painfully obvious to me that you or someone you love may have been victimized by a hater for being gay. Maybe the wounds are still fresh, or maybe you have not allowed them to heal. Sometimes we choose to see things only one way. That is narrow minded. When we can take a step back and take a broader view, we open our minds and see things from a different perspective. If more people would do that, we would not have the conflicts in our lives, only a better understanding of each other.
My intent here was not to defend the sin, only the sinner. It was only after Torin was depicted to be the manifestation of Satan himself, that I felt compelled to defend him. Even then it was only after I went back and re-watched the episodes and listened to them more carefully that I decided to take a stand. And apparently I stand alone.
There were 3 episodes totaling 60 minutes with Torin in them.
In episode 1, Torin and Steve are introduced, they are both smiling, and there is some good natured ribbing. Nothing I would call hateful.
In episode 2, it starts out well, Torin is smiling, anticipating some oral sex from a hot blonde chick, then at 1:09, he is blindsided when Aiden is introduced into the scene. You can see his reaction is real. He's not that good an actor for it to be otherwise. From that point on, he becomes sullen. His gum chewing becomes more animated and his demeanor changes, he is uncomfortable with the situation. He is being hit on by this outwaedly gay individual on camera, in front of his buddy. Other than being guarded when Aiden tries to remove his underwear, I do not define his actions as hateful. There is no name calling.
Scene 3 lasts 24 mins. Now the roomies are told they will have to perform anal. Torin is resigned to the fact that this is what he will have to do to earn his 2500.00, which many begrudged him for accepting. At 4:07, Torin reacts to the statement that the members will see this film, the reaction appears genuine to me. At 5:22 he utters that famous line that will forever label him a homophobe in the eyes of some. He uses the WORD "fag"!, not aganist the very gay Aiden, but to his buddy Steve. The last 11.5 minutes of the scene was Torin giving a very good and obviously enjoyable fuck to Aiden, and a gentle and controlled fuck to his buddy Steve. If ever there was an opportunity to inflict pain on either of these 2, this would have been it.
So my brothers, the FACT remains that the WORD "faggot" was never used, the WORD "fag" was used only once in the entire series, and it was directed at a straightie, with the disclaimer "no offense" attached to it.
I realize and accept that some of you will remain passionate in your inditcment of Torin as a fag hating, alcoholic homophobe, and I will respect your right to your opinions. I, however will staunchly defend my fellow traveler from unwarranted persecution as well.
I urge you yo visit the re-opend thread "Josh and Ridge, Racist remark on Broke Straight Boys", on page 4, a post by Mikeyank and Gremlin nicely sums up the point I was trying to make.

Laterz, Jason

 

[tampa24]

Very well said Jason.

I don't think that Torin is a saint. Nor do I think that he is evil incarnate. As with most of us imperfect mere mortals the truth usually lies somewhere in between.

 

[joninliverton]

I wish I had the time of day to do root cause analysis and write long posts, but I do not. It wasn't just the use of the word faggot or fag, it was Torin's distastefull attitude towards Aiden. For someone who was in the process of getting 2500 bucks, he could have at least tried to have been less hostile. Hopefully we won't see T again, although I'd welcome Steve and Aiden back anytime.

 

[tampa24]

It wasn't just the use of the word faggot or fag, it was Torin's distasteful attitude towards Aiden. For someone who was in the process of getting 2500 bucks, he could have at least tried to have been less hostile.

You raise a very good point again Jon. I wasn't bothered nearly as much by his use of the F word towards his straight friend as I was by his hostility towards sweet little Aiden. It was really uncalled for. And I won't even try to defend him on that. Or the use of the F word...

There are so many reality purists in here who show disdain for too much scripting and editing. And what they see as subtle manipulation of us viewers by some of the storylines involving the models. Then when we have a scene with a heavy dose of reality so many people get irate. None of us in here want to be insulted by models we're paying to see. But this is supposed to be a "reality" site and very unfortunately that kind of behavior is still common in the real world. It doesn't mean we have to like it though...

 

[jasonaz]

I wish I had the time of day to do root cause analysis and write long posts, but I do not. It wasn't just the use of the word faggot or fag, it was Torin's distastefull attitude towards Aiden. For someone who was in the process of getting 2500 bucks, he could have at least tried to have been less hostile. Hopefully we won't see T again, although I'd welcome Steve and Aiden back anytime.

Oh Jon, my friend, it is not that I have the time to while away, doing research and analysis, it is because I beleive it is incumbent upon one to be able to back up statements with facts when taking a stand on any subject. While most of the naysayers have jumped on the bandwagon based on the musings of a few, tossing around words like greed, homophobe, hostile,cruel, distasteful attitude, hostility, hateful and hurtful, none have taken the time or made the effort to pinpoint the specific actions from which these opinions evolve. Anyone can post an opinion here, and many do, I have seen some great postings in the general forum by some members making excellant observations, only to see those same members flip flop their position when the general tone of a thread takes an oppisite direction, following the flock like so many sheep. A few of you always remain steadfast and I do respect that.

So many of you were outraged by your perceived intolerance and hurtful nature of Torin towards Aiden. Should you not have been as equally outraged by the unfair treatment of Aiden by Broke Straight Boys? Is it fair to offer a bounty to the straight boys and a mere pittiance in comparrison, to the gay boy, simply because he will enjoy it anyway? This is a common occurence on Broke Straight Boys whenever a gay boy is used in a shoot. Do we not pay the same dues wether we are watching straight boys or gay boys? And what about encouraging the degradation of a gay boy by having the straight boys cum on his face?
Does that not foster a bit of humiliation? Even though Aiden (and I) liked it, we justify it and accept it. Does Dave ever ask the straight boys to cum on each others face?
Just a factual observation on my part.
I am sorry I am unable to condense my words to a few sentences, but fear not, I am feeling beter and soon will not have the time for these long posts.
In defense of Torin, if you only seek the bad in a person, that is what you will find. There is beauty and good in all of us, and that is what I will continue to look for in everyone. You may choose to see the glass as half empty, I prefer to think of it as half full. - Peace

Laterz,
Jason