Hey, guys -
Sorry, I had a few days off the board, because my gallbladder was really, really acting up. (And might jeopardize my planned holiday in September, with Mr. K., if I have to have an operation, soon.) It's a little better now, and I couldn't resist checking in on the board. Here are my thoughts on this thread, as it has evolved:
1.) I didn't post this to cause any kind of uproar - but rather to offer some sympathy and friendship to gay guys, who are fat, like me. Whatever the REASONS are for our being fat (and sometimes they can be overcome, and sometimes not): it is not EASY to be gay, and fat. I just wanted to offer a little support, and friendship - and allow anyone in a like situation, to write to me, in friendship.
2.) May God help me - I no longer subscribe to BenBen's comments on any subject, because after his supremely nasty (serial) discourtesies to me after Independence Day: I can no longer take him seriously, in any way. Having read (vicariously) Ben's FURTHER discourtesies to Dan, regarding Dan's kind words toward Jon, my sentiments in this regard are further reinforced. I think that:
*Dan's affection toward Jon is EMINENTLY defensible.
*I think there is nothing AT ALL wrong with showing REAL HUMAN AFFECTION toward members, or models, who merit it. I have been accused, on a few occasions, of kissing members' or models' asses, when I liked them - but I recant NOTHING. I love the people, I love. Period. And make no apologies, for doing so.
*Despite some initial misunderstandings, I have come to appreciate and love Jon from Liverton, and, while I would and will not kiss his ass (only his BOYFRIEND is entitled to do THAT): I would and will kiss him on the CHEEK, any day - and give him a great big HUG.
*Dan is entitled to do likewise, and I think that Ben's comments show a great lack of respect, and human feeling.
3.) This is NOT to say that I don't disagree with Jon, by times. This may well be one of those times - and I reserve the right to disagree with Jon civilly, but strenuously, as the occasion dictates. While it IS true that a healthier diet and more exercise will make ANYONE (even the fattest person) thinner ~ there is no guarantee that such measures will make everyone thin enough to be regarded as TRULY thin.
I do believe that genetics play a far larger role in these matters than some (especially certain folk in the U.K. press, where this subject has been much-discussed): SUPPOSE. For the last 20 years of her life, my sainted Mother ate little more than a garden-salad every day, and rode her bicycle 10 miles every day. But, she was still FAT. (Not, mind you, as fat as her SISTER, who didn't submit to such austerities - and who was HUGELY FAT: but still fat, nonetheless.)
I do think Jon's perspective on this matter is helpful, and that his adjurations to better diet and exercise are very important. However, I do believe that the solution to the problem is not quite as simple, as he suggests.
4.) I was particularly interested to hear Louis' account of his struggles to GAIN weight, over the years. Because, yes, I have known more than a few gay men who, like Louis, have had struggles which are diametrically opposite, to my own. Try as they might - with robust, healthy, diets (full of protein): and vigorous schedules of Nautilus and other exercise - they cannot seem to gain weight, and remain reed-thin FOREVER. . . and ALSO end up being passed-over, because they don't have the lovely, masculine, musculature, that so many of us prize, as an attribute in a lover. It is the opposite problem to the one I described: but, it is nonetheless, every BIT as real, and heartbreaking.
5.) I think you are lovely, Dan. And I suppose (though I didn't originally conceive it this way): this thread is dedicated to EVERYONE who doesn't look like an "Abercrombie and Fitch" model - or however the standard picture of a "great gay boyfriend", is popularly SUPPOSED to look. I have no doubt (after my life's experiences) that at least some of our tastes, as gay men (as reflected in the most popular models in both clothing-catalogues, and gay erotic sites) may be conditioned by evolution, or other factors far beyond conscious control.
This doesn't mean, though, that people who don't look like an Abercrombie and Fitch model, CAN'T ULTIMATELY prove to be attractive, to ANYONE. Simply because they don't LOOK (at first glance) like candidates ready to be pasted up, upon the frieze of some new Parthenon.
First of all, I've encountered MANY guys in wheelchairs, in the town where I live, who are really physically exquisite, in their face and form and manner - and whom I wouldn't disdain to love, for a MOMENT.
Second, beyond ALL the things we've been talking about, on this thread - for all of us, LOOKS WILL FADE: and DO FADE. And yesterday's Abercrombie and Fitch model, is tomorrow's rather fatter, balder, and undistinguished guy, walking down the street. I'm old enough, I know a couple of models (once the bright stars of the erotic firmament): who are in PRECISELY that position, now.
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GAY MEN, but not just gay men, but ALL MEN: are in a bit of a bind. Nature has made us (I believe) in such a way that MOST of us respond quite fulsomely, to visual experiences. And those experiences are (without question) one of the great delights, of human LIFE. (No question - this is the reason all of us, are HERE ;-)
BUT - in terms of love, and kindness, and ultimate contentment - visual appearances are the most fleeting and faithless indicators of ALL, when it comes to the possibility of happiness.
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So I (who have been betrayed SO many times, in my life, by MY physical appearance) posted this thread really, only, to share my experience, and, to give a little hope to those who have felt the same way, I have.
The gay world can be very cruel, and very tough, toward those of us who don't fit the prescribed ideal. But, over time, as our contemporaries get beaten and battered and tormented in all the storms of life. . . even gay men ~ who have often seemed, to me, to be the shallowest creatures on earth (but perhaps that's because I don't know, at that level of intimacy, so many STRAIGHT MEN): can sometimes come around. . . . and take a moment to look into the heart and soul of someone they are speaking with, in the moment.
And even, perhaps, come to LOVE that someone, if he is KIND.
"A" XOXOXOXOXOXOXO
