mitch768292
Banned
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- Posts
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I have an 18inch shotgun (shortest barrel you can legally own), double barrel, by the bed, big wide spread, don't have to be too accurate, just point it in their general direction.
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Quotes from Abe Lincoln....for real...Google it
- Thread starter mitch768292
- Start date
I have an 18inch shotgun (shortest barrel you can legally own), double barrel, by the bed, big wide spread, don't have to be too accurate, just point it in their general direction.
I have one like that named Bessy. She is a sweet. She is a Colt 1883 Double barrel 10 Gage Owens side by side and modified... Yes, folks I can do that to an antique and like it. And I have a remington 870 12 Gage Owens auto pump too. I love to shoot Skeet once in a while. Those dam clay targets get so dam expensive though.
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mitch768292
Banned
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2009
- Posts
- 474
- Reaction score
- 1
I have one like that named Bessy. She is a sweet. She is a Colt 1883 Double barrel 10 Gage Owens side eby side and modified... Yes, folks I can do that to an antique and like it. And I have a remington 870 12 Gage Owens auto pump too. I love to shoot Skeet once in a while. Those dam clay targets get so dam expensive though.
No kidding? I have an 1897 Winchester Pump, 12 gauge. I also have a modern double barrel Remington 12 Gauge and a 1900 William Moore (England) Double Barrel 20 gauge with "rabbit ear" hammers.
I love shooting clay pigeons.
Yeah, Skeet is fun... You get to shoot flying objects and nobody gets hurt. I started butchering chickens when I was 5 with my grand father for meals. I shot my first bull when I was 8. He fell over an embankment broke two ribs and two legs. Gramps and my two uncles helped me butcher him. Wow, that was a feat getting the tractor in position to pull him out. I did all of the hard work and they did the clean up essentially. LOL.
mitch768292
Banned
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2009
- Posts
- 474
- Reaction score
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All I ever butchered were rabbits and squirrels. Animal guts do stink to the high heavens, it will gag you. I was never around at hog killing time. My grandparents knew how to butcher just about anything you could kill.
Yeah My Grand parents were the same way... Hey, we are getting off topic again... BRB in the next post with something more relevant.
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When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd (part 1)
When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd
By Walt Whitman
1819-1892
________________________________________
1
When lilacs last in the dooryard bloom'd,
And the great star early droop'd in the western sky in the night,
I mourn'd, and yet shall mourn with ever-returning spring.
Ever-returning spring, trinity sure to me you bring,
Lilac blooming perennial and drooping star in the west,
And thought of him I love.
2
O powerful western fallen star!
O shades of night--O moody, tearful night!
O great star disappear'd--O the black murk that hides the star!
O cruel hands that hold me powerless--O helpless soul of me!
O harsh surrounding cloud that will not free my soul.
3
In the dooryard fronting an old farm-house near the white-wash'd palings,
Stands the lilac-bush tall-growing with heart-shaped leaves of rich green,
With many a pointed blossom rising delicate, with the perfume strong I love,
With every leaf a miracle--and from this bush in the dooryard,
With delicate-color'd blossoms and heart-shaped leaves of rich green,
A sprig with its flower I break.
4
In the swamp in secluded recesses,
A shy and hidden bird is warbling a song.
Solitary the thrush,
The hermit withdrawn to himself, avoiding the settlements,
Sings by himself a song.
Song of the bleeding throat,
Death's outlet song of life, (for well dear brother I know,
If thou wast not granted to sing thou wouldist surely die.)
5
Over the breast of the spring, the land, amid cities,
Amid lanes and through old woods, where lately the violets peep'd
from the ground, spotting the gray debris,
Amid the grass in the fields each side of the lanes, passing the
endless grass,
Passing the yellow-spear'd wheat, every grain from its shroud in the
dark-brown fields uprisen,
Passing the apple-tree blows of white and pink in the orchards,
Carrying a corpse to where it shall rest in the grave,
Night and day journeys a coffin.
6
Coffin that passes through lanes and streets,
Through day and night with the great cloud darkening the land,
With the pomp of the inloop'd flags with the cities draped in black,
With the show of the States themselves as of crape-veil'd women standing,
With processions long and winding and the flambeaus of the night,
With the countless torches lit, with the silent sea of faces and the
unbared heads,
With the waiting depot, the arriving coffin, and the sombre faces,
With dirges through the night, with the thousand voices rising strong
and solemn,
With all the mournful voices of the dirges pour'd around the coffin,
The dim-lit churches and the shuddering organs--where amid these
you journey,
With the tolling tolling bells' perpetual clang,
Here, coffin that slowly passes,
I give you my sprig of lilac.
7
(Nor for you, for one alone,
Blossoms and branches green to coffins all I bring,
For fresh as the morning, thus would I chant a song for you O sane
and sacred death.
All over bouquets of roses,
O death, I cover you over with roses and early lilies,
But mostly and now the lilac that blooms the first,
Copious I break, I break the sprigs from the bushes,
With loaded arms I come, pouring for you,
For you and the coffins all of you O death.)
8
O western orb sailing the heaven,
Now I know what you must have meant as a month since I walk'd,
As I walk'd in silence the transparent shadowy night,
As I saw you had something to tell as you bent to me night after night,
As you droop'd from the sky low down as if to my side, (while the
other stars all look'd on,)
As we wander'd together the solemn night, (for something I know not
what kept me from sleep,)
As the night advanced, and I saw on the rim of the west how full you
were of woe,
As I stood on the rising ground in the breeze in the cool transparent night,
As I watch'd where you pass'd and was lost in the netherward black
of the night,
As my soul in its trouble dissatisfied sank, as where you sad orb,
Concluded, dropt in the night, and was gone.
9
Sing on there in the swamp,
O singer bashful and tender, I hear your notes, I hear your call,
I hear, I come presently, I understand you,
But a moment I linger, for the lustrous star has detain'd me,
The star my departing comrade holds and detains me.
10
O how shall I warble myself for the dead one there I loved?
And how shall I deck my song for the large sweet soul that has gone?
And what shall my perfume be for the grave of him I love?
Sea-winds blown from east and west,
Blown from the Eastern sea and blown from the Western sea, till
there on the prairies meeting,
These and with these and the breath of my chant,
I'll perfume the grave of him I love.
11
O what shall I hang on the chamber walls?
And what shall the pictures be that I hang on the walls,
To adorn the burial-house of him I love?
Pictures of growing spring and farms and homes,
With the Fourth-month eve at sundown, and the gray smoke lucid and bright,
With floods of the yellow gold of the gorgeous, indolent, sinking
sun, burning, expanding the air,
With the fresh sweet herbage under foot, and the pale green leaves
of the trees prolific,
In the distance the flowing glaze, the breast of the river, with a
wind-dapple here and there,
With ranging hills on the banks, with many a line against the sky,
and shadows,
And the city at hand with dwellings so dense, and stacks of chimneys,
And all the scenes of life and the workshops, and the workmen
homeward returning.
12
Lo, body and soul--this land,
My own Manhattan with spires, and the sparkling and hurrying tides,
and the ships,
The varied and ample land, the South and the North in the light,
Ohio's shores and flashing Missouri,
And ever the far-spreading prairies cover'd with grass and corn.
Lo, the most excellent sun so calm and haughty,
The violet and purple morn with just-felt breezes,
The gentle soft-born measureless light,
The miracle spreading bathing all, the fulfill'd noon,
The coming eve delicious, the welcome night and the stars,
Over my cities shining all, enveloping man and land.
13
Sing on, sing on you gray-brown bird,
Sing from the swamps, the recesses, pour your chant from the bushes,
Limitless out of the dusk, out of the cedars and pines.
Sing on dearest brother, warble your reedy song,
Loud human song, with voice of uttermost woe.
O liquid and free and tender!
O wild and loose to my soul--O wondrous singer!
You only I hear--yet the star holds me, (but will soon depart,)
Yet the lilac with mastering odor holds me.
When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd
By Walt Whitman
1819-1892
________________________________________
1
When lilacs last in the dooryard bloom'd,
And the great star early droop'd in the western sky in the night,
I mourn'd, and yet shall mourn with ever-returning spring.
Ever-returning spring, trinity sure to me you bring,
Lilac blooming perennial and drooping star in the west,
And thought of him I love.
2
O powerful western fallen star!
O shades of night--O moody, tearful night!
O great star disappear'd--O the black murk that hides the star!
O cruel hands that hold me powerless--O helpless soul of me!
O harsh surrounding cloud that will not free my soul.
3
In the dooryard fronting an old farm-house near the white-wash'd palings,
Stands the lilac-bush tall-growing with heart-shaped leaves of rich green,
With many a pointed blossom rising delicate, with the perfume strong I love,
With every leaf a miracle--and from this bush in the dooryard,
With delicate-color'd blossoms and heart-shaped leaves of rich green,
A sprig with its flower I break.
4
In the swamp in secluded recesses,
A shy and hidden bird is warbling a song.
Solitary the thrush,
The hermit withdrawn to himself, avoiding the settlements,
Sings by himself a song.
Song of the bleeding throat,
Death's outlet song of life, (for well dear brother I know,
If thou wast not granted to sing thou wouldist surely die.)
5
Over the breast of the spring, the land, amid cities,
Amid lanes and through old woods, where lately the violets peep'd
from the ground, spotting the gray debris,
Amid the grass in the fields each side of the lanes, passing the
endless grass,
Passing the yellow-spear'd wheat, every grain from its shroud in the
dark-brown fields uprisen,
Passing the apple-tree blows of white and pink in the orchards,
Carrying a corpse to where it shall rest in the grave,
Night and day journeys a coffin.
6
Coffin that passes through lanes and streets,
Through day and night with the great cloud darkening the land,
With the pomp of the inloop'd flags with the cities draped in black,
With the show of the States themselves as of crape-veil'd women standing,
With processions long and winding and the flambeaus of the night,
With the countless torches lit, with the silent sea of faces and the
unbared heads,
With the waiting depot, the arriving coffin, and the sombre faces,
With dirges through the night, with the thousand voices rising strong
and solemn,
With all the mournful voices of the dirges pour'd around the coffin,
The dim-lit churches and the shuddering organs--where amid these
you journey,
With the tolling tolling bells' perpetual clang,
Here, coffin that slowly passes,
I give you my sprig of lilac.
7
(Nor for you, for one alone,
Blossoms and branches green to coffins all I bring,
For fresh as the morning, thus would I chant a song for you O sane
and sacred death.
All over bouquets of roses,
O death, I cover you over with roses and early lilies,
But mostly and now the lilac that blooms the first,
Copious I break, I break the sprigs from the bushes,
With loaded arms I come, pouring for you,
For you and the coffins all of you O death.)
8
O western orb sailing the heaven,
Now I know what you must have meant as a month since I walk'd,
As I walk'd in silence the transparent shadowy night,
As I saw you had something to tell as you bent to me night after night,
As you droop'd from the sky low down as if to my side, (while the
other stars all look'd on,)
As we wander'd together the solemn night, (for something I know not
what kept me from sleep,)
As the night advanced, and I saw on the rim of the west how full you
were of woe,
As I stood on the rising ground in the breeze in the cool transparent night,
As I watch'd where you pass'd and was lost in the netherward black
of the night,
As my soul in its trouble dissatisfied sank, as where you sad orb,
Concluded, dropt in the night, and was gone.
9
Sing on there in the swamp,
O singer bashful and tender, I hear your notes, I hear your call,
I hear, I come presently, I understand you,
But a moment I linger, for the lustrous star has detain'd me,
The star my departing comrade holds and detains me.
10
O how shall I warble myself for the dead one there I loved?
And how shall I deck my song for the large sweet soul that has gone?
And what shall my perfume be for the grave of him I love?
Sea-winds blown from east and west,
Blown from the Eastern sea and blown from the Western sea, till
there on the prairies meeting,
These and with these and the breath of my chant,
I'll perfume the grave of him I love.
11
O what shall I hang on the chamber walls?
And what shall the pictures be that I hang on the walls,
To adorn the burial-house of him I love?
Pictures of growing spring and farms and homes,
With the Fourth-month eve at sundown, and the gray smoke lucid and bright,
With floods of the yellow gold of the gorgeous, indolent, sinking
sun, burning, expanding the air,
With the fresh sweet herbage under foot, and the pale green leaves
of the trees prolific,
In the distance the flowing glaze, the breast of the river, with a
wind-dapple here and there,
With ranging hills on the banks, with many a line against the sky,
and shadows,
And the city at hand with dwellings so dense, and stacks of chimneys,
And all the scenes of life and the workshops, and the workmen
homeward returning.
12
Lo, body and soul--this land,
My own Manhattan with spires, and the sparkling and hurrying tides,
and the ships,
The varied and ample land, the South and the North in the light,
Ohio's shores and flashing Missouri,
And ever the far-spreading prairies cover'd with grass and corn.
Lo, the most excellent sun so calm and haughty,
The violet and purple morn with just-felt breezes,
The gentle soft-born measureless light,
The miracle spreading bathing all, the fulfill'd noon,
The coming eve delicious, the welcome night and the stars,
Over my cities shining all, enveloping man and land.
13
Sing on, sing on you gray-brown bird,
Sing from the swamps, the recesses, pour your chant from the bushes,
Limitless out of the dusk, out of the cedars and pines.
Sing on dearest brother, warble your reedy song,
Loud human song, with voice of uttermost woe.
O liquid and free and tender!
O wild and loose to my soul--O wondrous singer!
You only I hear--yet the star holds me, (but will soon depart,)
Yet the lilac with mastering odor holds me.
When Lilacs Last in the Dooryard Bloom'd (part 2)
14
Now while I sat in the day and look'd forth,
In the close of the day with its light and the fields of spring, and
the farmers preparing their crops,
In the large unconscious scenery of my land with its lakes and forests,
In the heavenly aerial beauty, (after the perturb'd winds and the storms,)
Under the arching heavens of the afternoon swift passing, and the
voices of children and women,
The many-moving sea-tides, and I saw the ships how they sail'd,
And the summer approaching with richness, and the fields all busy
with labor,
And the infinite separate houses, how they all went on, each with
its meals and minutia of daily usages,
And the streets how their throbbings throbb'd, and the cities pent--
lo, then and there,
Falling upon them all and among them all, enveloping me with the rest,
Appear'd the cloud, appear'd the long black trail,
And I knew death, its thought, and the sacred knowledge of death.
Then with the knowledge of death as walking one side of me,
And the thought of death close-walking the other side of me,
And I in the middle as with companions, and as holding the hands of
companions,
I fled forth to the hiding receiving night that talks not,
Down to the shores of the water, the path by the swamp in the dimness,
To the solemn shadowy cedars and ghostly pines so still.
And the singer so shy to the rest receiv'd me,
The gray-brown bird I know receiv'd us comrades three,
And he sang the carol of death, and a verse for him I love.
From deep secluded recesses,
From the fragrant cedars and the ghostly pines so still,
Came the carol of the bird.
And the charm of the carol rapt me,
As I held as if by their hands my comrades in the night,
And the voice of my spirit tallied the song of the bird.
Come lovely and soothing death,
Undulate round the world, serenely arriving, arriving,
In the day, in the night, to all, to each,
Sooner or later delicate death.
Prais'd be the fathomless universe,
For life and joy, and for objects and knowledge curious,
And for love, sweet love--but praise! praise! praise!
For the sure-enwinding arms of cool-enfolding death.
Dark mother always gliding near with soft feet,
Have none chanted for thee a chant of fullest welcome?
Then I chant it for thee, I glorify thee above all,
I bring thee a song that when thou must indeed come, come unfalteringly.
Approach strong deliveress,
When it is so, when thou hast taken them I joyously sing the dead,
Lost in the loving floating ocean of thee,
Laved in the flood of thy bliss O death.
From me to thee glad serenades,
Dances for thee I propose saluting thee, adornments and feastings for thee,
And the sights of the open landscape and the high-spread shy are fitting,
And life and the fields, and the huge and thoughtful night.
The night in silence under many a star,
The ocean shore and the husky whispering wave whose voice I know,
And the soul turning to thee O vast and well-veil'd death,
And the body gratefully nestling close to thee.
Over the tree-tops I float thee a song,
Over the rising and sinking waves, over the myriad fields and the
prairies wide,
Over the dense-pack'd cities all and the teeming wharves and ways,
I float this carol with joy, with joy to thee O death.
15
To the tally of my soul,
Loud and strong kept up the gray-brown bird,
With pure deliberate notes spreading filling the night.
Loud in the pines and cedars dim,
Clear in the freshness moist and the swamp-perfume,
And I with my comrades there in the night.
While my sight that was bound in my eyes unclosed,
As to long panoramas of visions.
And I saw askant the armies,
I saw as in noiseless dreams hundreds of battle-flags,
Borne through the smoke of the battles and pierc'd with missiles I saw them,
And carried hither and yon through the smoke, and torn and bloody,
And at last but a few shreds left on the staffs, (and all in silence,)
And the staffs all splinter'd and broken.
I saw battle-corpses, myriads of them,
And the white skeletons of young men, I saw them,
I saw the debris and debris of all the slain soldiers of the war,
But I saw they were not as was thought,
They themselves were fully at rest, they suffer'd not,
The living remain'd and suffer'd, the mother suffer'd,
And the wife and the child and the musing comrade suffer'd,
And the armies that remain'd suffer'd.
16
Passing the visions, passing the night,
Passing, unloosing the hold of my comrades' hands,
Passing the song of the hermit bird and the tallying song of my soul,
Victorious song, death's outlet song, yet varying ever-altering song,
As low and wailing, yet clear the notes, rising and falling,
flooding the night,
Sadly sinking and fainting, as warning and warning, and yet again
bursting with joy,
Covering the earth and filling the spread of the heaven,
As that powerful psalm in the night I heard from recesses,
Passing, I leave thee lilac with heart-shaped leaves,
I leave thee there in the door-yard, blooming, returning with spring.
I cease from my song for thee,
From my gaze on thee in the west, fronting the west, communing with thee,
O comrade lustrous with silver face in the night.
Yet each to keep and all, retrievements out of the night,
The song, the wondrous chant of the gray-brown bird,
And the tallying chant, the echo arous'd in my soul,
With the lustrous and drooping star with the countenance full of woe,
With the holders holding my hand nearing the call of the bird,
Comrades mine and I in the midst, and their memory ever to keep, for
the dead I loved so well,
For the sweetest, wisest soul of all my days and lands--and this for
his dear sake,
Lilac and star and bird twined with the chant of my soul,
There in the fragrant pines and the cedars dusk and dim.
OK, I studies literary history in school working on my Associates Degree. Being the metaphysical person I am; I was enamored by the Transcendentalists among those greats was Walt Whitman he often wrote about Lincoln and this poem was ode to Lincoln's death.
14
Now while I sat in the day and look'd forth,
In the close of the day with its light and the fields of spring, and
the farmers preparing their crops,
In the large unconscious scenery of my land with its lakes and forests,
In the heavenly aerial beauty, (after the perturb'd winds and the storms,)
Under the arching heavens of the afternoon swift passing, and the
voices of children and women,
The many-moving sea-tides, and I saw the ships how they sail'd,
And the summer approaching with richness, and the fields all busy
with labor,
And the infinite separate houses, how they all went on, each with
its meals and minutia of daily usages,
And the streets how their throbbings throbb'd, and the cities pent--
lo, then and there,
Falling upon them all and among them all, enveloping me with the rest,
Appear'd the cloud, appear'd the long black trail,
And I knew death, its thought, and the sacred knowledge of death.
Then with the knowledge of death as walking one side of me,
And the thought of death close-walking the other side of me,
And I in the middle as with companions, and as holding the hands of
companions,
I fled forth to the hiding receiving night that talks not,
Down to the shores of the water, the path by the swamp in the dimness,
To the solemn shadowy cedars and ghostly pines so still.
And the singer so shy to the rest receiv'd me,
The gray-brown bird I know receiv'd us comrades three,
And he sang the carol of death, and a verse for him I love.
From deep secluded recesses,
From the fragrant cedars and the ghostly pines so still,
Came the carol of the bird.
And the charm of the carol rapt me,
As I held as if by their hands my comrades in the night,
And the voice of my spirit tallied the song of the bird.
Come lovely and soothing death,
Undulate round the world, serenely arriving, arriving,
In the day, in the night, to all, to each,
Sooner or later delicate death.
Prais'd be the fathomless universe,
For life and joy, and for objects and knowledge curious,
And for love, sweet love--but praise! praise! praise!
For the sure-enwinding arms of cool-enfolding death.
Dark mother always gliding near with soft feet,
Have none chanted for thee a chant of fullest welcome?
Then I chant it for thee, I glorify thee above all,
I bring thee a song that when thou must indeed come, come unfalteringly.
Approach strong deliveress,
When it is so, when thou hast taken them I joyously sing the dead,
Lost in the loving floating ocean of thee,
Laved in the flood of thy bliss O death.
From me to thee glad serenades,
Dances for thee I propose saluting thee, adornments and feastings for thee,
And the sights of the open landscape and the high-spread shy are fitting,
And life and the fields, and the huge and thoughtful night.
The night in silence under many a star,
The ocean shore and the husky whispering wave whose voice I know,
And the soul turning to thee O vast and well-veil'd death,
And the body gratefully nestling close to thee.
Over the tree-tops I float thee a song,
Over the rising and sinking waves, over the myriad fields and the
prairies wide,
Over the dense-pack'd cities all and the teeming wharves and ways,
I float this carol with joy, with joy to thee O death.
15
To the tally of my soul,
Loud and strong kept up the gray-brown bird,
With pure deliberate notes spreading filling the night.
Loud in the pines and cedars dim,
Clear in the freshness moist and the swamp-perfume,
And I with my comrades there in the night.
While my sight that was bound in my eyes unclosed,
As to long panoramas of visions.
And I saw askant the armies,
I saw as in noiseless dreams hundreds of battle-flags,
Borne through the smoke of the battles and pierc'd with missiles I saw them,
And carried hither and yon through the smoke, and torn and bloody,
And at last but a few shreds left on the staffs, (and all in silence,)
And the staffs all splinter'd and broken.
I saw battle-corpses, myriads of them,
And the white skeletons of young men, I saw them,
I saw the debris and debris of all the slain soldiers of the war,
But I saw they were not as was thought,
They themselves were fully at rest, they suffer'd not,
The living remain'd and suffer'd, the mother suffer'd,
And the wife and the child and the musing comrade suffer'd,
And the armies that remain'd suffer'd.
16
Passing the visions, passing the night,
Passing, unloosing the hold of my comrades' hands,
Passing the song of the hermit bird and the tallying song of my soul,
Victorious song, death's outlet song, yet varying ever-altering song,
As low and wailing, yet clear the notes, rising and falling,
flooding the night,
Sadly sinking and fainting, as warning and warning, and yet again
bursting with joy,
Covering the earth and filling the spread of the heaven,
As that powerful psalm in the night I heard from recesses,
Passing, I leave thee lilac with heart-shaped leaves,
I leave thee there in the door-yard, blooming, returning with spring.
I cease from my song for thee,
From my gaze on thee in the west, fronting the west, communing with thee,
O comrade lustrous with silver face in the night.
Yet each to keep and all, retrievements out of the night,
The song, the wondrous chant of the gray-brown bird,
And the tallying chant, the echo arous'd in my soul,
With the lustrous and drooping star with the countenance full of woe,
With the holders holding my hand nearing the call of the bird,
Comrades mine and I in the midst, and their memory ever to keep, for
the dead I loved so well,
For the sweetest, wisest soul of all my days and lands--and this for
his dear sake,
Lilac and star and bird twined with the chant of my soul,
There in the fragrant pines and the cedars dusk and dim.
OK, I studies literary history in school working on my Associates Degree. Being the metaphysical person I am; I was enamored by the Transcendentalists among those greats was Walt Whitman he often wrote about Lincoln and this poem was ode to Lincoln's death.
Down here in Florida Jeb Bush helped pass the Stand Your Ground Law. Prior to this law if you had a violent home intruder it was up to you to try to retreat from your own home. Rather than use force on the bastard who's breaking into your home you are supposed to flee if you can. We wouldn't want the slime to be injured would we?
Anyway with the new law you are allowed to use lethal force if anyone breaks into your home. Period. If you shoot him dead that's his tough luck. You donot have to prove that you felt your life was in danger. You do not have to prove whether his intent was to rape you or others in the house, rob you or just steal possesions from you. The burden of proof is no longer on the homeowner. In some ways it goes beyond what is justifiable lethal force in other states.
It also applies to public places. If you feel that your life is in danger in a public place you are allowed to use deadly force there also. There was a famous incident that happened a few months after the law passed. A man was broken down in his truck by the side of the road. Another man approached the truck holding a gun. Luckily for the driver he had a gun too. He pulled his out and shot the guy dead right at the driver's side door. The driver also had his 2 small children in the truck with him! Turns out the robber/rapist was an ex-con who had a rap sheet a mile long with charges of rape and violent crime. The driver had no charges to face. Not only because he was justified strictly by common sense but also because the new law said that he was totally justified.
The laws in some states put the victim on trial as we all know. It's so idiotic. Like you're supposed to ask a gunman. "Excuse me sir. Are you just going to rob me or kill me, or both? Are you going to rape my daughter next to my dead body? If you are merely going to rob me, then by law I am not supposed to resist. Only try to retreat. If I can't flee you I should just give you my wallet and appeal to your better nature. If you state for the record that you intend to kill me then I am justified in trying to defend myself. I can't harm you too severely though or you'll sue me. But if I kill you first then who will testify in court for me that you intended to kill me first?"
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mitch768292
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November 20, 2007 | Posted By Lisa Siegel | 0 Comments | 
Stand Your Ground Laws Allowed In Georgia
November 20, 2007
ABC News recently reported on an incident in Pasadena, Texas last week and captured on a 911 tape where zealous gun owner, Joe Horn, noticed his neighbor’s home was being burglarized. Relying on the Texas “Stand Your Ground” law, the neighbor ran next door, shot and killed the two burglars despite pleas for patience from the 911 operator.
In 2006, the Georgia legislature with Senate Bill 396 enacted a “Stand Your Ground” law similar to the one in Texas. O.C.G.A. sections 16-3-2 and 51-11-1 provide that a person has the right to meet force with force, including deadly force, in defense of one’s self, one’s home or other property. These laws provide immunity from both prosecution and civil tort actions. Sixteen other states have enacted similar legislation, expanding the legal boundaries of self-defense that previously required a duty to retreat.
For example, if a homeowner is confronted by a burglary in progress at one’s home, the homeowner could shoot to kill, and would be free from prosecution or a wrongful death action brought by the burglar’s family. Interestingly, Georgia case law already provided that one with a reasonable fear of danger to his or her life could use lethal force to protect their home or property. The new statute goes a bit either, allowing one to use lethal force even outside the home to protect any property. Further, by providing immunity, the shooter has no burden to establish self-defense
The “Stand Your Ground” law originated from lobbying by the National Rifle Association and was first enacted in Florida. The NRA’s position is this type of legislation takes away the duty to run and allows victims to stand their ground. Further, immunity from civil and criminal penalties protects victims from being second guessed by the legal system. Supporters of this legislation say it is an answer to rising violence. In 2006 the FBI reported 2.18 million home burglaries in the US. Gun advocates say that due to rising violence, innocent victims must regain control.
Critics of the law argue the legislation encourages vigilantism and makes it more likely that confrontations will turn deadly. The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence argues the provisions are too broad and, in fact, empower the most aggressive members of society. The Brady Campaign has referred to this legislation as “Shoot First, Ask Questions Later” bills. Georgians for Gun Safety advocated against the law, claiming the legislation broadened the concept of self-defense in the minds of citizens and in the minds of criminals.
What makes the Texas case interesting is that the Joe Horn shot and killed two burglars of his neighbor’s property. Thus, by shooting to protect someone else's property, he might not be entitled to immunity. The 911 tape recording does also reflect a bit of vigilantism, as he ignores the operator’s plea to wait for the police while he shouts to the burglars, “Move, you’re dead!”
After Georgia's "Stand Your Ground" law was enacted, an 84-year-old homeowner in Augusta, Georgia shot and wounded a 24-year-old burglar of his backyard tool shed. The homeowner lay in wait for the burglar who had been routinely stealing yard equipment. Thanks to the “Stand Your Ground” law the octogenarian did not have to answer for any civil or criminal penalties.
Stand Your Ground Laws Allowed In Georgia
November 20, 2007
ABC News recently reported on an incident in Pasadena, Texas last week and captured on a 911 tape where zealous gun owner, Joe Horn, noticed his neighbor’s home was being burglarized. Relying on the Texas “Stand Your Ground” law, the neighbor ran next door, shot and killed the two burglars despite pleas for patience from the 911 operator.
In 2006, the Georgia legislature with Senate Bill 396 enacted a “Stand Your Ground” law similar to the one in Texas. O.C.G.A. sections 16-3-2 and 51-11-1 provide that a person has the right to meet force with force, including deadly force, in defense of one’s self, one’s home or other property. These laws provide immunity from both prosecution and civil tort actions. Sixteen other states have enacted similar legislation, expanding the legal boundaries of self-defense that previously required a duty to retreat.
For example, if a homeowner is confronted by a burglary in progress at one’s home, the homeowner could shoot to kill, and would be free from prosecution or a wrongful death action brought by the burglar’s family. Interestingly, Georgia case law already provided that one with a reasonable fear of danger to his or her life could use lethal force to protect their home or property. The new statute goes a bit either, allowing one to use lethal force even outside the home to protect any property. Further, by providing immunity, the shooter has no burden to establish self-defense
The “Stand Your Ground” law originated from lobbying by the National Rifle Association and was first enacted in Florida. The NRA’s position is this type of legislation takes away the duty to run and allows victims to stand their ground. Further, immunity from civil and criminal penalties protects victims from being second guessed by the legal system. Supporters of this legislation say it is an answer to rising violence. In 2006 the FBI reported 2.18 million home burglaries in the US. Gun advocates say that due to rising violence, innocent victims must regain control.
Critics of the law argue the legislation encourages vigilantism and makes it more likely that confrontations will turn deadly. The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence argues the provisions are too broad and, in fact, empower the most aggressive members of society. The Brady Campaign has referred to this legislation as “Shoot First, Ask Questions Later” bills. Georgians for Gun Safety advocated against the law, claiming the legislation broadened the concept of self-defense in the minds of citizens and in the minds of criminals.
What makes the Texas case interesting is that the Joe Horn shot and killed two burglars of his neighbor’s property. Thus, by shooting to protect someone else's property, he might not be entitled to immunity. The 911 tape recording does also reflect a bit of vigilantism, as he ignores the operator’s plea to wait for the police while he shouts to the burglars, “Move, you’re dead!”
After Georgia's "Stand Your Ground" law was enacted, an 84-year-old homeowner in Augusta, Georgia shot and wounded a 24-year-old burglar of his backyard tool shed. The homeowner lay in wait for the burglar who had been routinely stealing yard equipment. Thanks to the “Stand Your Ground” law the octogenarian did not have to answer for any civil or criminal penalties.
November 20, 2007 | Posted By Lisa Siegel | 0 Comments |
Stand Your Ground Laws Allowed In Georgia
November 20, 2007
ABC News recently reported on an incident in Pasadena, Texas last week and captured on a 911 tape where zealous gun owner, Joe Horn, noticed his neighbor’s home was being burglarized. Relying on the Texas “Stand Your Ground” law, the neighbor ran next door, shot and killed the two burglars despite pleas for patience from the 911 operator.
In 2006, the Georgia legislature with Senate Bill 396 enacted a “Stand Your Ground” law similar to the one in Texas. O.C.G.A. sections 16-3-2 and 51-11-1 provide that a person has the right to meet force with force, including deadly force, in defense of one’s self, one’s home or other property. These laws provide immunity from both prosecution and civil tort actions. Sixteen other states have enacted similar legislation, expanding the legal boundaries of self-defense that previously required a duty to retreat.
For example, if a homeowner is confronted by a burglary in progress at one’s home, the homeowner could shoot to kill, and would be free from prosecution or a wrongful death action brought by the burglar’s family. Interestingly, Georgia case law already provided that one with a reasonable fear of danger to his or her life could use lethal force to protect their home or property. The new statute goes a bit either, allowing one to use lethal force even outside the home to protect any property. Further, by providing immunity, the shooter has no burden to establish self-defense
The “Stand Your Ground” law originated from lobbying by the National Rifle Association and was first enacted in Florida. The NRA’s position is this type of legislation takes away the duty to run and allows victims to stand their ground. Further, immunity from civil and criminal penalties protects victims from being second guessed by the legal system. Supporters of this legislation say it is an answer to rising violence. In 2006 the FBI reported 2.18 million home burglaries in the US. Gun advocates say that due to rising violence, innocent victims must regain control.
Critics of the law argue the legislation encourages vigilantism and makes it more likely that confrontations will turn deadly. The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence argues the provisions are too broad and, in fact, empower the most aggressive members of society. The Brady Campaign has referred to this legislation as “Shoot First, Ask Questions Later” bills. Georgians for Gun Safety advocated against the law, claiming the legislation broadened the concept of self-defense in the minds of citizens and in the minds of criminals.
What makes the Texas case interesting is that the Joe Horn shot and killed two burglars of his neighbor’s property. Thus, by shooting to protect someone else's property, he might not be entitled to immunity. The 911 tape recording does also reflect a bit of vigilantism, as he ignores the operator’s plea to wait for the police while he shouts to the burglars, “Move, you’re dead!”
After Georgia's "Stand Your Ground" law was enacted, an 84-year-old homeowner in Augusta, Georgia shot and wounded a 24-year-old burglar of his backyard tool shed. The homeowner lay in wait for the burglar who had been routinely stealing yard equipment. Thanks to the “Stand Your Ground” law the octogenarian did not have to answer for any civil or criminal penalties.
http://forum.pafoa.org/question-answer-40/24470-there-stand-your-ground-law-pa.html
I cannot wait for tha law to come into affect in PA. I just know that you can kill them in your own home if you can justify eminent danger. We are not required to retreat. I keep hearing about all of these brakeins where people are taken hostage in there own homes. That is getting crazy....
mitch768292
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http://forum.pafoa.org/question-answer-40/24470-there-stand-your-ground-law-pa.html
I cannot wait for tha law to come into affect in PA. I just know that you can kill them in your own home if you can justify eminent danger. We are not required to retreat. I keep hearing about all of these brakeins where people are taken hostage in there own homes. That is getting crazy....
We can shoot anybody who comes on our property or who we see stealing something.
So, my big question here is how much has this detered crime?
Good question. We will have to wait for sociologists and crime specialists to go over the statistics and try to interpret them. I'm not sure that we even have any anecdotal evidence as to whether it has prevented crime.
It's main purpose was to scare would be criminals with the hope of deterring crime. As well as empowering the law-abiding citizen. On the latter goal at least "Stand Your Ground" has been a huge success.
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So, my big question here is how much has this detered crime?
I never had the chance to shoot anybody so I don't know?
mitch768292
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LOL You almost sound disappointed Mitch!
I am
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