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- Thread starter rickbell19
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Berlin accuses Washington of cold war tactics over snooping
Reports of NSA snooping on Europe go well beyond previous revelations of electronic spying
Transatlantic relations plunged at the weekend as Berlin, Brussels and Paris all demanded that Washington account promptly and fully for new disclosures on the scale of the US National Security Agency's spying on its European allies.
As further details emerged of the huge reach of US electronic snooping on Europe, Berlin accused Washington of treating it like the Soviet Union, "like a cold war enemy".
The European commission called on the US to clarify allegations that the NSA, operating from Nato headquarters a few miles away in Brussels, had infiltrated secure telephone and computer networks at the venue for EU summits in the Belgian capital. The fresh revelations in the Guardian and allegations in the German publication Der Spiegel triggered outrage in Germany and in the European parliament and threatened to overshadow negotiations on an ambitious transatlantic free-trade pact worth hundreds of billions due to open next week.
The reports of NSA snooping on Europe – and on Germany in particular – went well beyond previous revelations of electronic spying said to be focused on identifying suspected terrorists, extremists and organised criminals.
Der Spiegel reported that it had seen documents and slides from the NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden indicating that US agencies bugged the offices of the EU in Washington and at the UN in New York. They are also accused of directing an operation from Nato headquarters in Brussels to infiltrate the telephone and email networks at the EU's Justus Lipsius building in the Belgian capital, the venue for EU summits and home of the European council.
read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/30/berlin-washington-cold-war
Reports of NSA snooping on Europe go well beyond previous revelations of electronic spying
Transatlantic relations plunged at the weekend as Berlin, Brussels and Paris all demanded that Washington account promptly and fully for new disclosures on the scale of the US National Security Agency's spying on its European allies.
As further details emerged of the huge reach of US electronic snooping on Europe, Berlin accused Washington of treating it like the Soviet Union, "like a cold war enemy".
The European commission called on the US to clarify allegations that the NSA, operating from Nato headquarters a few miles away in Brussels, had infiltrated secure telephone and computer networks at the venue for EU summits in the Belgian capital. The fresh revelations in the Guardian and allegations in the German publication Der Spiegel triggered outrage in Germany and in the European parliament and threatened to overshadow negotiations on an ambitious transatlantic free-trade pact worth hundreds of billions due to open next week.
The reports of NSA snooping on Europe – and on Germany in particular – went well beyond previous revelations of electronic spying said to be focused on identifying suspected terrorists, extremists and organised criminals.
Der Spiegel reported that it had seen documents and slides from the NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden indicating that US agencies bugged the offices of the EU in Washington and at the UN in New York. They are also accused of directing an operation from Nato headquarters in Brussels to infiltrate the telephone and email networks at the EU's Justus Lipsius building in the Belgian capital, the venue for EU summits and home of the European council.
read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/30/berlin-washington-cold-war
French parties call for Snowden political asylum
NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden should be given political asylum in France, party leaders from across the political spectrum have said in the wake of the latest US spying allegations.
French party leaders from across the political spectrum have called on France to grant US whistleblower Edward Snowden political asylum, amid demands for ongoing free trade talks between the EU and Washington to be put on hold.
Jean-Luc Mélanchon, leader of France’s Left Party (Parti de Gauche) told BFMTV on Sunday that the extent of alleged US spying on European communications was “arrogant” and “breathtaking”.
“The Americans are spying on EU institutions, so they are already fully aware of the mandate for negotiations that the EU has begun with the US for a free trade agreement,” he said. “We should put these negotiations on hold until the Americans have given some clarity.”
He said France should grant Edward Snowden – currently in transit limbo in a Russian airport without valid travel documents and without any country yet saying it would welcome him – immediate political asylum.
“Edward Snowden... has done us a good service,” he said. “It’s thanks to him that we know we have been spied on. It is not acceptable that we allow a situation whereby he wanders uncertainly around the planet. He is a defender of all our freedoms.”
read more: http://www.france24.com/en/20130701-snowden-nsa-france-asylum-melanchon-greens-le-pen-hollande
NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden should be given political asylum in France, party leaders from across the political spectrum have said in the wake of the latest US spying allegations.
French party leaders from across the political spectrum have called on France to grant US whistleblower Edward Snowden political asylum, amid demands for ongoing free trade talks between the EU and Washington to be put on hold.
Jean-Luc Mélanchon, leader of France’s Left Party (Parti de Gauche) told BFMTV on Sunday that the extent of alleged US spying on European communications was “arrogant” and “breathtaking”.
“The Americans are spying on EU institutions, so they are already fully aware of the mandate for negotiations that the EU has begun with the US for a free trade agreement,” he said. “We should put these negotiations on hold until the Americans have given some clarity.”
He said France should grant Edward Snowden – currently in transit limbo in a Russian airport without valid travel documents and without any country yet saying it would welcome him – immediate political asylum.
“Edward Snowden... has done us a good service,” he said. “It’s thanks to him that we know we have been spied on. It is not acceptable that we allow a situation whereby he wanders uncertainly around the planet. He is a defender of all our freedoms.”
read more: http://www.france24.com/en/20130701-snowden-nsa-france-asylum-melanchon-greens-le-pen-hollande
joninliverton
BSB Addict
It's all ridiculous. A spies on B although A is inside B's country. Then B does exactly the same when they visit A's country. If you think it doesn't happen then you're very naive. Snowden is a traitor and is only blowing what he thinks the NSA is doing. If he was in a position that he says he was, then why isn't he disclosing what the Europeans are doing to the American embassy's and trade offices there.
I'm not ready to make a final call on Snowden myself just yet. I agree with your point though Jon that there is spying going on, even among allied countries (both ways) every day of the week. The extent of the means used and the success of that spying will vary over time vis-à-vis-each country. If that comes as a shock to some people...well I'm sorry. But it's true.
The reports of NSA snooping on Europe – and on Germany in particular – went well beyond previous revelations of electronic spying said to be focused on identifying suspected terrorists, extremists and organised criminals. The documents suggesting the clandestine bugging operations were from September 2010, Der Spiegel said.
Der Spiegel quoted the Snowden documents as revealing that the US taps half a billion phone calls, emails and text messages in Germany a month. "We can attack the signals of most foreign third-class partners, and we do," Der Spiegel quoted a passage in the NSA document as saying. It quoted the document from 2010 as stating that "the European Union is an attack target".
On an average day, the NSA monitored about 15 million German phone connections and 10 million internet datasets, rising to 60 million phone connections on busy days, the report said.
Officials in Brussels said this reflected Germany's weight in the EU and probably also entailed elements of industrial and trade espionage.
Jan Philipp Albrecht, a German Green party MEP and a specialist in data protection, told the Guardian the revelations were outrageous. "It's not about political answers now, but rule of law, fundamental constitutional principles and rights of European citizens," he said.
Germany has some of the toughest data privacy laws in Europe, with the issue highly sensitive not least because of the comprehensive surveillance by the Stasi in former communist east Germany as well as the wartime experience with the Gestapo under the Nazis.
Just imagine what Americans would say if the EU tapped Congress, and listened in to millions of US telephone conversations...
Der Spiegel quoted the Snowden documents as revealing that the US taps half a billion phone calls, emails and text messages in Germany a month. "We can attack the signals of most foreign third-class partners, and we do," Der Spiegel quoted a passage in the NSA document as saying. It quoted the document from 2010 as stating that "the European Union is an attack target".
On an average day, the NSA monitored about 15 million German phone connections and 10 million internet datasets, rising to 60 million phone connections on busy days, the report said.
Officials in Brussels said this reflected Germany's weight in the EU and probably also entailed elements of industrial and trade espionage.
Jan Philipp Albrecht, a German Green party MEP and a specialist in data protection, told the Guardian the revelations were outrageous. "It's not about political answers now, but rule of law, fundamental constitutional principles and rights of European citizens," he said.
Germany has some of the toughest data privacy laws in Europe, with the issue highly sensitive not least because of the comprehensive surveillance by the Stasi in former communist east Germany as well as the wartime experience with the Gestapo under the Nazis.
Just imagine what Americans would say if the EU tapped Congress, and listened in to millions of US telephone conversations...
joninliverton
BSB Addict
What goes around comes around..
True enough. Karma's a bitch. LOL
andy
Well-known Member
I love the US (I try to avoid the word "America", as the rest of the continent -the remaining 34 countries in America- rightly takes offense 
).
The US bullying has been discussed to death.
What really gets to me is that there are only two parties to choose from. Everything is either/or. Whenever a member of a party breaks the "rules" -like those two GOP hot chicks rallying for GLBTs- there's an uproar. It's absolutely ridiculous. Can't we think independently anymore?
). The US bullying has been discussed to death.
What really gets to me is that there are only two parties to choose from. Everything is either/or. Whenever a member of a party breaks the "rules" -like those two GOP hot chicks rallying for GLBTs- there's an uproar. It's absolutely ridiculous. Can't we think independently anymore?
joninliverton
BSB Addict
I love the US (I try to avoid the word "America", as the rest of the continent -the remaining 34 countries in America- rightly takes offense
The US bullying has been discussed to death.
What really gets to me is that there are only two parties to choose from. Everything is either/or. Whenever a member of a party breaks the "rules" -like those two GOP hot chicks rallying for GLBTs- there's an uproar. It's absolutely ridiculous. Can't we think independently anymore?
It's been the same in the uk for years Andy however, over the last year the UKIP (UK Independence party) has gained a lot of votes, especially in bi elections and local elections.
andy
Well-known Member
Well, at least the UK is showing some sense. In this area anyone can postulate themselves to become president. People have lots of choices.
andy
Well-known Member
The current "Kirchner" dynasty which is ruling Argentina literally came out of nowhere. Here:
She's a hot bipolar mess. Personally, I love her.
She's a hot bipolar mess. Personally, I love her.
[h=1]Bolivian president's jet rerouted amid suspicions Edward Snowden on board[/h] France and Portugal accused of refusing entry to their airspace, while plane lands in Vienna with no sign of Snowden
Bolivia reacted with fury after a plane carrying the country's president home from Russia was diverted to Vienna amid suspicions that it was carrying the surveillance whistleblower, Edward Snowden.
France and Portugal were accused of withdrawing permission for the plane, carrying the president, Evo Morales, from energy talks in Moscow, to pass through their airspace.
Officials in both Austria and Bolivia said Snowden was not on the plane. The Bolivian foreign minister, David Choquehuanca, said: "We don't know who invented this lie. We want to denounce to the international community this injustice with the plane of President Evo Morales."
In a midnight press conference, Bolivian vice-president Alvaro Garcia said Italy and Spain were also denying the plane permission to fly through their airspace. He described Morales as being "kidnapped by imperialism" in Europe.
read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/03/edward-snowden-bolivia-plane-vienna
Bolivia reacted with fury after a plane carrying the country's president home from Russia was diverted to Vienna amid suspicions that it was carrying the surveillance whistleblower, Edward Snowden.
France and Portugal were accused of withdrawing permission for the plane, carrying the president, Evo Morales, from energy talks in Moscow, to pass through their airspace.
Officials in both Austria and Bolivia said Snowden was not on the plane. The Bolivian foreign minister, David Choquehuanca, said: "We don't know who invented this lie. We want to denounce to the international community this injustice with the plane of President Evo Morales."
In a midnight press conference, Bolivian vice-president Alvaro Garcia said Italy and Spain were also denying the plane permission to fly through their airspace. He described Morales as being "kidnapped by imperialism" in Europe.
read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/03/edward-snowden-bolivia-plane-vienna
joninliverton
BSB Addict
Some clips from the bbc news website - much more trustworthy than the Guardian.
[h=2]Asylum requests[/h]
[h=2]Asylum requests[/h]
- Rejected: Austria, Brazil, Finland, India, Ireland, Norway, Poland, Spain, Switzerland
- Withdrawn: Russia
- Pending: Bolivia, China, Cuba, Ecuador, Germany, Iceland, Italy, Netherlands, Nicaragua
- Unconfirmed: France, Venezuela
- Mr Snowden withdrew his application to Russia after President Vladimir Putin said he could stay only on condition that he stopped damaging Russia's "American partners" with his leaks, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said.
Mr Morales and Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro had been in Moscow for a meeting of gas-exporting countries.
President Maduro said he had not formally received an asylum request, but expressed support for Mr Snowden, saying he "deserves the world's protection" from the United States.
"Why are they persecuting him? What has he done? Did he launch a missile and kill someone? Did he rig a bomb and kill someone? No. He is preventing war," he told Reuters news agency.
Of course Bolivia and Venezuela have no history of human rights issues.
andy
Well-known Member
Jon, I'm surprised that Chile isn't on the list. During the Falkland war, Chile backstabbed Argentina quite mightily. Chile allowed UK jets to overfly the country and prepare a base in southern Chile (!) The politicians want people to believe that all is well and that the two countries are "sisters". BS. They all know what really happened, that's one of the reasons why Argentines tend to dislike Chileans, there's a very strained rivalry there.
There's plenty of strained relations in South America. Bolivia still holds a grudge against Chile for losing the war and becoming a landlocked country. While they all try to get along for the most part on the surface, there's still plenty of historical baggage there. Still, the countries down there stand a much better chance with their economic growth and political development if they all play nice and cooperate as much as possible.
andy
Well-known Member
Tampa, South America is fascinating. Yeah, there are a lot of grudges (I don't know the details tho)Have you ever read Garcia Marquez? His novels / pieces of art manage to transmit the exotic beauty of S. America, the constant craziness, the magic even (literally so).. I've only read a couple of his novels (in English, my friend tells me that I'm missing out but my Spanish is not that good).
andy
Well-known Member
It's all very problematic here. You need to remember that we had the Founding Fathers etc and people who *wanted* to live in a state. S. America hosted all the European outcasts who hadn't the faintest idea of where they were going. And so it began. And it hasn't changed THAT much since then. It's chaotic. I love it though <33a
"Mr Snowden withdrew his application to Russia after President Vladimir Putin said he could stay only on condition that he stopped damaging Russia's "American partners" with his leaks, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said."
Edward Snowden delivered a thousand pages to the Guardian and the Washington Post. It is now out of his hands...
Read the tweet from Glenn Greenwald the reporter from the Guardian: "Snowden's leak is basically done. It's newspapers - not Snowden - deciding what gets disclosed and in what sequence."
source: https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/351730381478821888
More revelations are to be expected...
Read the NSA files (so far)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/the-nsa-files
Edward Snowden delivered a thousand pages to the Guardian and the Washington Post. It is now out of his hands...
Read the tweet from Glenn Greenwald the reporter from the Guardian: "Snowden's leak is basically done. It's newspapers - not Snowden - deciding what gets disclosed and in what sequence."
source: https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/351730381478821888
More revelations are to be expected...
Read the NSA files (so far)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/the-nsa-files
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andy
Well-known Member
Privacy has ceased to exist. <33a.
