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Gays May yet Serve Openly in the US Military

Good evening, Forum members:
I served 4 years in the Army from 1976-1980, with one overseas assignment to South Korea. I admitted that I was gay and was fortunate to be discharged with a General Disharge under Honorable Conditions. I'm kind of glad that I was discharged from the Army, for my next duty station was going to be four years in Germany with our parent company, which meant I would have had to re-enlist for another 4 years.
Just thought I add to this forum.
Gary
 
OK, so what about the case of Colonel Margherite? I mean, c'mon they forced her to tell the truth to try to get a top security clearance. Was that Fair ? They asked her and she refused to lie, because of her oath, which she interpreted as forbidding her to lie, and they said she was correct, "An officer must never lie" As far as I can see, she should be re-instated and the security clearance that would have led to her being made a general should be issued. Shame on them! Her service record was exemplary ! Unlike some of our commander in chiefs, I might add!

With Love, I am,
 
OK, so what about the case of Colonel Margherite? I mean, c'mon they forced her to tell the truth to try to get a top security clearance. Was that Fair ? They asked her and she refused to lie, because of her oath, which she interpreted as forbidding her to lie, and they said she was correct, "An officer must never lie" As far as I can see, she should be re-instated and the security clearance that would have led to her being made a general should be issued. Shame on them! Her service record was exemplary ! Unlike some of our commander in chiefs, I might add!

With Love, I am,

That was a huge issue too. They basically asked. That breaches the contract too. I have always wondered exactly how that applied to "Don't ask, Don't tell." Thanks for the input M&M
 
I served 9 years and 6 months in the USAF. I was stationed in Turkey, Greenland, 2 tours in North Dakota and vacationed in Travis AFB. I was instilled with a great sense of pride and discipline. I shined literally in my uniform, I was a model Security Policeman. But it was a lonely life without someone to love and be with. No lasting relationships during my careers, just the career and the business of being professional. I still polish my shoes to a high gloss shine. I fold my underwear and tee shirts and I always say "sir" or "mame" to a superior. What discipline! Thanks Uncle Sam.
 
I served 9 years and 6 months in the USAF. I was stationed in Turkey, Greenland, 2 tours in North Dakota and vacationed in Travis AFB. I was instilled with a great sense of pride and discipline. I shined literally in my uniform, I was a model Security Policeman. But it was a lonely life without someone to love and be with. No lasting relationships during my careers, just the career and the business of being professional. I still polish my shoes to a high gloss shine. I fold my underwear and tee shirts and I always say "sir" or "mame" to a superior. What discipline! Thanks Uncle Sam.

I can so relate. It is hard to find time for committed relationships in the service in general then add the fact of being a police officer.
 
Wow, thanks Jon.

I think this is more what you are referring too below:

Obama HRC Speech: "I Will End Don't Ask, Don't Tell," Says President Obama.

CHRISTINE SIMMONS | 10/10/09 11:28 PM |



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/10/obama-says-he-will-end-do_n_316524.html


WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama reaffirmed his campaign pledge to end the ban on homosexuals serving openly in the military in a speech Saturday, but offered no timetable or specifics for acting on that promise.

He acknowledged to a cheering crowd that some policy changes he promised on the campaign trail are not coming as quickly as they expected.

"I will end 'don't ask-don't tell,'" Obama said to a standing ovation from the crowd of about 3,000 at the annual dinner of the Human Rights Campaign, a gay civil rights advocacy group.

The law was passed by Congress in 1993 and signed by President Bill Clinton, who also promised to repeal the ban on homosexuals in the military but was blunted by opposition in the military and Congress. Obama said he's working with Pentagon and congressional leaders on ending the policy.

"We should not be punishing patriotic Americans who have stepped forward to serve the country," Obama said. "We should be celebrating their willingness to step forward and show such courage ... especially when we are fighting two wars."

Obama said it was no secret "our progress may be taking longer than we like." He followed this by asking supporters to trust his administration's course.

"I appreciate that many of you don't believe progress has come fast enough," Obama said. "Do not doubt the direction we are heading and the destination we will reach."

Some advocates said they already have heard Obama's promises – they just want to hear a timeline. Cleve Jones, a pioneer activist and creator of the AIDS Memorial Quilt, said Obama delivered a brilliant speech, but added "it lacked the answer to our most pressing question, which is when."

"He repeated his promises that he's made to us before, but he did not indicate when he would accomplish these goals and we've been waiting for a while now," said Jones, national co-chair of a major gay-rights rally expected to draw thousands of gay and lesbian activists to the National Mall on Sunday.

Obama also called on Congress to repeal the Defense Of Marriage Act, which limits how state, local and federal bodies can recognize partnerships and determine benefits. He also called for a law to extend benefits to domestic partners.

He expressed strong support for the Human Rights Campaign agenda – ending discrimination against gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgender people – but stopped short of laying out a detailed plan for how to get there.

"My expectation is that when you look back on these years you will look back and see a time when we put a stop against discrimination ... whether in the office or the battlefield," Obama said.

Obama's political energies are focused on managing two wars, the economic crisis and his attempt to reform the health care system.

His message Saturday was one of unity and support for a group that has funneled large amounts of money into Democratic coffers.

"I'm here with a simple message: I'm here with you in that fight," Obama said.

Obama also addressed those who do not favor advancing gay rights. A recent Pew Research Center poll asked about homosexual behavior, and about half said it is morally wrong. "There's still laws to change and there's still hearts to open," Obama said.

Since Obama took office in January, some advocates have complained that Obama has not followed through on promises on issues they hold dear and has not championed their causes from the White House, including ending the ban on gays serving openly in the military and pushing tough nondiscrimination policies.

Richard Socarides, who advised Clinton's administration on gay and lesbian policy, said Obama delivered "a strong speech in tone, although only vaguely reassuring in content."

"The president and Nobel winner came and paid his respects, but tomorrow many will ask: What's his plan, what's his timetable?"

In the past, Obama has urged the gay-rights community to trust him. In June, he pointed to some initial efforts, such as a presidential memorandum he issued that expands some federal benefits to same-sex partners.

Obama publicly has previously committed himself to repealing the "don't ask, don't tell" policy that allows gays and lesbians to serve in the military as long as they don't disclose their sexual orientation or act on it. But Obama hasn't taken any concrete steps urging Congress to rescind the policy, and his national security adviser last weekend would only say that Obama will focus on overturning it "at the right time."

Obama also pledged during the campaign to work for repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act. But lawyers in his administration defended the law in a court brief. White House aides said they were only doing their jobs to back a law that was already on the books.

The gay community is somewhat split as to whether Obama should be expected to produce results right away.

The Human Rights Campaign, which invited Obama to speak at its dinner Saturday night, holds out hope of seeing more action.

"We have never had a stronger ally in the White House. Never," Joe Solmonese, the group's president, said at the dinner before Obama spoke. In an interview, he said the Obama administration has been working with the group on a range of issues "on an almost weekly and sometimes daily basis."

Obama noted new hate-crimes legislation, which would make it a federal crime to assault people because of their sexual orientation. Approved by the House this week, Obama predicted it would pass the Senate and promised to sign it into law. :thumbup:
 
Good article but I suppose there are reasons - mainly the church and other anti gay lobbys - that will delay the process. This will certainly be a test of President Obama's office and if he can convince the church and those senators and certain military chiefs to go along with this, it will say a lot for his commitment to fulfill election promises.
 
Good article but I suppose there are reasons - mainly the church and other anti gay lobbys - that will delay the process. This will certainly be a test of President Obama's office and if he can convince the church and those senators and certain military chiefs to go along with this, it will say a lot for his commitment to fulfill election promises.

I believe it really is a no brainer. The real issue has never been the the repeal of Don't ask, don't tell. The key issue has been getting congress to amend the constitution and the UCMJ. The decisions to prosecute are always up to the commands any way. If you are in the service of the US government and you go to the beach on leave and come back with a sun tan your command under the UCMJ can legally prosecute you for destruction of government property. This rarely happens, but legally it can and does happen.

Two things here where the church comes in. There is to be a clear division between Church and State per the constitution. Also, If all of the churches abide by there founding doctrines and dogma homosexuality was never an issue. In fact gays and lesbians were openly married by 95% of the religious denominations prior to the Spanish inquisition.
 
Done some homework as I was unaware of what UCMJ mean so Googled it

The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) is the bedrock of military law.

Laws can be changed and the UK, whilst having some strange laws that date back to the 1800s and beyond, did change their attitude towards homesexuality in 2000 when they announced that gays and lesbians could openly serve in the military. Of course neither does the Church of England or the Catholic church have any influence on UK military law - and rightfully so, in my opinion.

If that was the case then each time there was a Falklands or an Iraq then the PM would have to go knocking on the Church Leaders doors instead of the Queen's. I mention the Queen because although it appears to the outside world that the monarchy has no powers, the Armed Forces actually show loyalty to the Queen. The PM would also notify the Queen in person, of his intentions to go into conflict with another country.

Anyway, I hope Obama gets it through.
 
I find it ironic that gays and lesbians still want to join a homophobic military. I served for nine and half years as a SP in the USAF and I wouldn't recommend gays to join until the atmosphere is more friendly to gays and lesbians. There are enough pressures in the military to contend with like staying alive in combat to worry about hiding my sexual identity. As far as I'm concern send them red-necks and religious fanatics to Afghanistan they will do a lot better there than making gay people's lives miserable here.
 
I always thought "don't ask, don't tell" was pretty much the first step in saying that gays can serve in the military. Time has now passed and it seems Obama will take the next step and say, ask, tell, whatever, gays can serve in the military. Of course, it only seems that way. Thus far Obama really hasn't done much of the big stuff he promised during the campaign and really doesn't seem to be making much progress in achieving those things. Though today he did put an end to the federal government going after providers and users of medical marijuana, so that's a plus!
 
Democrats and Republicans over here are scratching their heads and asking the same question. But the honor was bestowed upon him by Europeans. Not Americans. So you're asking the wrong side of the Atlantic. haha :wink:
 
What did Obama get the Nobel peace prize for then ?

for his tour around the world acknowledging America's faults, talking about world peace, an end to nuclear weapons..........basically.

he got the award for thinking positive thoughts. it had nothing to with anything he has actually done.

don't get me wrong, i like the guy, but how do you win a peace prize when you are conducting two wars???
 
I always thought "don't ask, don't tell" was pretty much the first step in saying that gays can serve in the military. Time has now passed and it seems Obama will take the next step and say, ask, tell, whatever, gays can serve in the military. Of course, it only seems that way. Thus far Obama really hasn't done much of the big stuff he promised during the campaign and really doesn't seem to be making much progress in achieving those things. Though today he did put an end to the federal government going after providers and users of medical marijuana, so that's a plus!

It sure will be interesting if he lifts the ban and Congress does not amend the UCMJ. To lift the ban totally both the President and Congress will need to work together. More fun...:glare:
 
but how do you win a peace prize when you are conducting two wars???

Exactly mate, that's what myself and a few friends when we first heard the news. Here is the most powerfull man in the world with a vast array of weapons of mass destruction at his fingertips, currently involved in two wars - and they give him a peace prize. :confused1:

There is hope for us all...
 
Exactly mate, that's what myself and a few friends when we first heard the news. Here is the most powerfull man in the world with a vast array of weapons of mass destruction at his fingertips, currently involved in two wars - and they give him a peace prize. :confused1:

There is hope for us all...

I think I will question it more when he pushes the little red button and uses nukes to solve the problem.:scared: You both make a great point...
 
I think I will question it more when he pushes the little red button and uses nukes to solve the problem.:scared: You both make a great point...

Well really it's a legacy from previous administrations however, saying that, a legacy and a deterant that was needed at the time.

Going back to the original thread subject, please keep me informed of any developements as I'm quite interested in the topic.
 
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