Gay and Death

[angelone]

I struggle with the thought of being alone in my old age because the lonliness can be unbearable at times. Now I am beginning to dread the thought of dying without the comfort of someone special by my side, to hold my hand or whisper a tearful farewell. Do any of you have thoughts about death and dying of an old gay person?

 

[kaalaaupuni]

Hey Angelone, deep topic... Consider the same issue for the partner left behind...who provides the care and comfort for that person? There are a lot of single people, be they widowed or not, hetero or gay--so the situation you describe is not unique. I suppose that could be another one of MsK's conundrum questions--would you rather your partner die before or after you?

Unfortunately, American culture doesn't encourage the nurturing of an extended family. How many would bring in a grandparent or parent in their more fragile years because they can't take care of themselves? The most common solution is to put them in a nursing home or assisted care situation. Have you ever visited any nursing homes to see how lonely a lot of those people are? How many visits do they get a year outside of the cursory birthday/Thanksgiving/Christmas and maybe Easter ones considered obligatory (from guilt)? It does take time and energy, and not many are as giving as Gary or Jayman in caring for a loved one. It's easier to be busy with activities catering to self-indulgent interests. Some people struggle with accepting the onset of physical and mental deterioration...I can't judge that, and I know it isn't always easy.

I would hope that everyone on the forum learns how to nurture existing relationships, young and old. I have no doubt my nieces would check up on me because their 'favorite uncle' has been involved in their lives and that of their children. They don't even have to be blood relatives. Aging is inevitable, but we can strengthen those bonds with those close to us so we don't have to feel alone.

If I had made a New Year's wish, it would be that everyone on the forum (and elsewhere!) would develop Jayman's sense of spirituality, awareness, equanimity, and sensitivity. Small wonder he's a friend to so many, as he is a true stateman and friend.
(Haha, Jayman, you get put on a pedestal higher than Tyler's )

nameste, my friends...

 

[JLipps4u]

My dear angelone,

No need to torture yourself about dying alone. I have worked in hospitals for 35 years, and guess what, probably 80% of people in a hospital die alone. It doesn't matter if they have family or not, most die alone.

I had 3 brothers and sisters who were ill all their lives with a deteriorating disease. We kept all 3 at home. Not one of them ever saw the inside of a hospital. they lived at home, were cared for at home, and died at home. My parents are aged and frail now, and I live next door to them and am constantly going over there to do things with, or for them. I could never place them in a nursing home! I was taught to care for loved ones at home, and I would quit work and do just that if and when the time comes that they need me. But, not everyone is raised knowing how to care for the ill or the elderly. Its not their fault, they just dont know how to. The sad thing is that it is such a rewarding experience to care for someone. It teaches you so much about life, about them, and about yourself. It makes you stronger.

The thing of it is, many people are alone and lonely because they choose to be. There is no need for that. You can change that. I only have a brother and he is gay as well. There are no children, and there will be no granchildren , or nephews and nieces to look our for us. But I don't worry. I have many cousins, and I make them a part of my life. I sometimes have thanksgiving dinners and invite them all over to cook and spoil them. I sometimes take in a cousin who has fallen on hard times and help them get re-established. You have to give of yourself for others to want to give back to you. I guess its all about karma. Or, as Christians would say, you reap what you sow.

Being gay does not condemn us to a life of loneliness. Being selfish and self-centered does. And that, my dear angelone, is not a matter of being straight or gay. I posted in the "10 Random Facts thread" that I live my life so that each life that I touch, is better for the experience. Fill your life with random acts of kindess to loved ones, to relatives, to co-workers, to strangers, and I bet there will be someone to whisper a tearful farewell to you, when your time comes to depart this marvelous and beautiful world.

With much love and hope that you find peace.

JLipps

 

[cumrag27]

Truth be told!

Hey Angelone, deep topic... Consider the same issue for the partner left behind...who provides the care and comfort for that person? There are a lot of single people, be they widowed or not, hetero or gay--so the situation you describe is not unique. I suppose that could be another one of MsK's conundrum questions--would you rather your partner die before or after you?

Unfortunately, American culture doesn't encourage the nurturing of an extended family. How many would bring in a grandparent or parent in their more fragile years because they can't take care of themselves? The most common solution is to put them in a nursing home or assisted care situation. Have you ever visited any nursing homes to see how lonely a lot of those people are? How many visits do they get a year outside of the cursory birthday/Thanksgiving/Christmas and maybe Easter ones considered obligatory (from guilt)? It does take time and energy, and not many are as giving as Gary or Jayman in caring for a loved one. It's easier to be busy with activities catering to self-indulgent interests. Some people struggle with accepting the onset of physical and mental deterioration...I can't judge that, and I know it isn't always easy.

I would hope that everyone on the forum learns how to nurture existing relationships, young and old. I have no doubt my nieces would check up on me because their 'favorite uncle' has been involved in their lives and that of their children. They don't even have to be blood relatives. Aging is inevitable, but we can strengthen those bonds with those close to us so we don't have to feel alone.

If I had made a New Year's wish, it would be that everyone on the forum (and elsewhere!) would develop Jayman's sense of spirituality, awareness, equanimity, and sensitivity. Small wonder he's a friend to so many, as he is a true stateman and friend.
(Haha, Jayman, you get put on a pedestal higher than Tyler's )

nameste, my friends...

Dearest kaalaaupuni,

I absolutely admire the way you "cut to the chase" on this issue. It has so much wisdom and directness to it that it should speak volumes to each and every one of us. Even when you are present at the time of death of a loved one, death is the one experience we must ultimately face alone. But based on a lifetime of spiritual growth, good works, and good intentions, I feel it is these three aspects that accompany us beyond the physical world's limitations, holding either hand to gently guide us safely and peacefully into our next life. Our soul should be the vessel built by our spiritual growth with an accumulation of our kind works and good intentions.

In your concluding remarks I have to join in your sentiments stated thusly,

"it would be that everyone on the forum (and elsewhere!) would develop Jayman's sense of spirituality, awareness, equanimity, and sensitivity. Small wonder he's a friend to so many, as he is a true stateman and friend."

As a direct beneficiary of Jayman's fortuitous "spirituality, awareness, equanimity, and sensitivity", I have been blessed more than my words can adequately express. As "wordy" as Undie so correctly pegged my writing-style reputation back in September 2010, I can only state further to humbly express my thankfulness for Jayman's blessed participation on our forum. Jayman's spirituality, kindness, and tireless energy is simply beyond my wildest expectations. There is no pedestal, regardless of size, worthy of Jayman's many blessings accumulated over a lifetime spent on personal spiritual growth and self-discipline. Trust me!


nameste, my friends,


Stimpy

 

[joninliverton]

I struggle with the thought of being alone in my old age because the lonliness can be unbearable at times. Now I am beginning to dread the thought of dying without the comfort of someone special by my side, to hold my hand or whisper a tearful farewell. Do any of you have thoughts about death and dying of an old gay person?

It is no different to a str8 person dying. Every couple whether str8 or gay ends up losing their partner and thereafter becomes alone. I suppose the difference with being gay is that one doesn't have siblings to look after you.

 

[kaalaaupuni]

Thanks, Stimpy, for expressing such intimate thoughts and feelings. You remind me of the Hawaiian concept of your ancestors remaining part of your life even after death, because they are part of the consciousness and memories that comprise your being.
It parallels the Christian concept of the body of Christ. (An Episcopalian friend explained to me why Episcopals and Catholics pray to the saints: their souls are part of that living (post-physical world) body, just as those who are living pray for each other's needs.)

Everyone goes through some form of mourning, though some cultures are better able to accept death than others. Funerals, memorials, and wakes are for the living to sort out their feelings, go through a healing process and come to acceptance of that inevitable part of life's cycle. I sometimes struggle sharing the wonderful memories I've had with special friends, even though the gathering is to honor and celebrate their life.

You indeed have been blessed with Jayman's knowlege, energy, and embracing love. His modesty will probably deter him from making too many comments acknowledging the adoration

By the way, if you haven't seen the movie "9," you may want to give that one a viewing. I saw it for the first time back in November last year, and it was entertaining but also thought-provoking for an animation.

Hugs and smiles to all

 

[angelone]

Thanks, you all are so wise and gentle it is a wonderful to find such people on a porn site. The Jesus-spirit still lives and it lives in the most unusual places. Thanks again. I just needed a shoulder to cry on.

 

[Markymark]

You know, sometimes, not often, but once in a while, I find myself astounded by the timeliness of a topic, and the deep and sensitive responses of my fellow fourumites. If my response in this thread has many misspellings tonight, please blame it on the tears, not the brain.

Yesterday I returned from 4 days in Oklahoma City with my husband. We were visiting his son, who turned 23, and was joining the same fraternity Carl & I belong to. It was a truly joyful occasion. On the return flight, my mind wandered, as it often does these days, towards thoughts of my advancing years, but I dismissed them as being frivolous and premature. Then today I saw my cardiologist and was told in no uncertain terms that my heart is in bad shape, and that open heart surgery is in my near future, unless I choose to die instead. Months and months of poor eating, skipping meds and little or no exercise, have taken their toll. I have spent most of the afternoon, in my room, crying because I promised Carl two years ago that I would take care of myself and be with him for years, and now that may not be true. And the one thought that keeps running through my mind is how selfish I was and how Carl, who has struggled successfully against AIDS for 24 years, could end up being alone. But several times, the phone has rung, revealing yet another friend of ours who has heard the news and called to see how WE are doing. And I realized, as mentioned in previous posts, that we have many friends who think as my fellow forumites do, that we must value our fellow humans, care for and about them, and never put off doing all we can whenever we can. This one thought has brought me back to my place of peace.

Angelone, I notice you live in Benicia, I live in Sacramento. It is less than 70 miles. Can we talk? Please msg me! I will give you my numbers. God Bless You!

God's Peace to all of us!

 

[slimvintage]

Mark, some people are handed more existential dilemmas than others. You've come in for more than your fair share. Your cardiologist's two options have faced you with the kind of decision that everyone hopes he or she never has to make.

You have me here, 12 hours from you, with the tears running down my stupid face. Your story is one about health, good and bad, but it's mostly about true love. You and Carl are so much one entity that both of you have made sacrifices for the common good. You'll say that your lack of exercise and proper diet was your own fault, but Carl will tell you that doing your best for him might have taken a toll on you, as it almost always does in any relationship. But there are such wonderful compensations, daily, for people who love each other. He deserves your being there for him as you always have been. I, and all the rest of your electronic fans and friends who love you so much, need you in our lives as well. Ask the higher forces that govern yours and Carl's spiritual lives, what you should do.

Then make the right choice, and go for the operation. I'll be there with you, in person if I possibly can. There's so much love and concern coming at you mister. Put it to good use, and get well.

 

[Jayman01]

QM MarkyMark I, I am saddened by your news. However, you are a remarkable man with an incredible zeal for life. From the moment we are born we are going to die. That much is true. It is the how and when that is so baffling to us. Sometimes, I am asked that question, “how am I going to die?,” when I give a psychic reading. It is hard not to laugh when I respond, “your heart will stop beating.” There is nothing very psychic about that. And I have perceived other’s deaths clearly at times. However; I have learned that when or if this happens; the person is usually just as aware as I am about it. The vision or imagery I see is more about preparation, validation, and completion more than anything else. There is nothing really funny about death to those of us left behind because we morn the loss of someone we have come to know and love. However, focusing on death does not afford us an opportunity to live life in the present and enjoy whatever amount of time we have on earth. Many times I tell people when they ask me how I am doing; I tell them, “Any day above ground is a good day.” I do my best to live each day as if it were the first day of the rest of my life. I do my best to not go to bed angry, or to leave others hanging. Life is what it is, and it just seems to happen with or without me. So, I just try to make most of each moment I have and not worry about the should of, would of, or could of thoughts in life. They do enter my mind but I do my best to derail those thoughts I can. I have been taught about the Universal Law of Attraction by some people I believe to be fairly wise. Essentially, our thoughts, words, feelings, and our actions have the ability to reshape and reform energy. Our thoughts, words, feelings, and our actions set the Law of Attraction into motion. (I.e. our perceptions become our reality.) So, as long as those negative emotion and thought patterns are not a constant in our life we and we get back onto positive thoughts and actions we will attract positive things and outcomes into our lives. I think that is about as good as we can do in life.

I think sometimes doctors warn us about our health issues to remind us that we could live longer and live our life a little better. I love this concept in theory. I think it sends more people into panic mode than anything. The great news is that there seems to be enough time to make things right for you at this time. The truth is that your personal resolve and spirit are very strong. You can over come any obstacles you put your mind too. I have seen miracles happen again and again. So, I never discount the human spirit and our will to live. The doctors told my grand father he had two weeks to live several times before he finally passed away about 8 and a half years later. My uncle has had heart surgery 3 times in the last 40 years. Each time he was told that he may get another year or two from the surgery. He was originally scheduled for death when he was like 50. Yikes!!! He is doing well I guess considering that he is 93 right now and he still has all of his faculties minus some minor vision and hearing loss. His last surgery was about 7 years ago. His doctor changed his prognosis recently to tell him that his heart is going strong and that he is doing just fine. I worked my own miracle recently. I had a doctor tell me, in July last year, that I had early stage cirrhosis of my liver and a seriously fatty liver to boot. I also had severe obstructive sleep apnea so bad I needed an Auto BiPAP machine. 6 mos. later I have no signs of cirrhosis my liver is at 97% functioning. They just took away my Auto BiPAP machine and told me I no longer have any signs of apnea. I dropped from 380lbs. to 220lbs. in 6 mos. Also, MarkyMark I remind you that you have marveled at how Carl has managed living with HIV.

I guess what I am saying is that there is time to work on the issue at hand. You have the will power and fervor to make a full and complete recovery. Stressing yourself out and worrying about what may come only contributes more to the stress of the situation and complicates the condition. Life is not as much about the quantity as it is about the quality of life. We never know exactly when our number is going to be up. All we can do is do our best to prepare for the inevitable on paper and live life with purpose and meaning. You definitely live life with purpose and love for all things and everyone my dear friend. Remember, “The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.” Take everything one step at a time. Bless your heart, my prayers are with you and I have added you to my healing grid to send you healing energy.

Live well, live long, love much, and teach others…

 

[Jayman01]

Cumrag and Kaalaaupuni:

You two guys are too much. LOL. That “Pedestal” is a bit too high even for me… I am but one voice in a Choir. We all have the ability to commune with God on a personal and spiritual level. I am no greater nor any less than any other person. I am human. I make mistakes and I do my best to learn from those mistakes daily. I may practice more than most and not as much as others. However; the fact remains that we all came from the same source and we will all return to the same source one day. We are eternally connected to the God consciousness of the Universe through our higher selves. We just need to learn how to take those subtle moments in life to tune in and listen and be one with all things. In that moment we begin to understand our true four fold nature of man as well as it helps to clear away the fog that can often blind our ego. I just try to keep things grounded for me as much as everyone else when I feel spiritually guided. I do thank you for your kind words. As I said sometimes I am spiritually guided to post or write some of my more insightful responses I cannot take all of the credit.

 

[Markymark]

Actually, Carl and I have made the choice, the right one, but I guess that was more my point than anything else. That I was fortunate to be in such a special relationship, and yet stupid enough to knowingly risk his future happiness by ignoring simple health issues, makes me feel very ashamed. Then I think of someone like Angelone, who faces that very situation of being alone, and fearful of a future without companionship. No one deserves that.

I guess I would really want to see us work together to do ALL we can to support one another, to reach out to our brothers and sisters who have not had the love and support of caring companions or children, to reduce the lonliness that for some accompanies the aging process. Does that make sense?

 

[Reubenjames]

I lost the only man i will ever love over 30 years ago now, i have been on my own ever since. You never know what this world will throw at you so live every day. We had such plans him and i which we never got to live out.
I have nursed for 35 years and every ones is different in how they cope with the loss of a loved one, some people can cope and be there with them some can't.
Mark i hope you and carl will be together for many years to come, you take care now.
We are all here to support each other.
Reub.

 

[cumrag27]

In my thoughts and my prayers...

Actually, Carl and I have made the choice, the right one, but I guess that was more my point than anything else. That I was fortunate to be in such a special relationship, and yet stupid enough to knowingly risk his future happiness by ignoring simple health issues, makes me feel very ashamed. Then I think of someone like Angelone, who faces that very situation of being alone, and fearful of a future without companionship. No one deserves that.

I guess I would really want to see us work together to do ALL we can to support one another, to reach out to our brothers and sisters who have not had the love and support of caring companions or children, to reduce the lonliness that for some accompanies the aging process. Does that make sense?

Dearest Markymark,

I am glad to hear that you have formulated a plan dealing with your health issues and based on mutual respect and interdependence. I cannot imagine anyone on site that does not wish you the very best outcome. What you have provided Carl is what so many of us have learned as the model of love, namely an unending litany of giving of oneself. Yet, this unconditional generosity on your part has had its consequence and slight modifications must be made for you to continue.

I am so very encouraged that you have bounced right back upon further reflection, ready to meet the next set of challenges, and have mapped out a better plan for prolonging both of you guy's prospects of living more healthy. Mark, with all of your accumulated good works and grace you must possess, please remember to charish life's simplicity. Mother Teresa wrote the following simple statement as an affirmation and as encouragement:

"Life is an opportunity, benefit from it.
Life is beauty, admire it.
Life is a dream, realize it.
Life is a challenge, meet it.
Life is a duty, complete it.
Life is a game, play it.
Life is a promise, fulfill it.
Life is sorrow, overcome it.
Life is a song, sing it.
Life is a struggle, accept it.
Life is a tragedy, confront it.
Life is an adventure, dare it.
Life is luck, make it.
Life is too precious, do not destroy it.
Life is life, fight for it."

Mark, keep up the good fight as is your nature. I will keep both Carl and you in my thoughts and my prayers. I encourage fellow forumites to do the same.


God Bless you both,



Stimpy

 

[Jayman01]

Actually, Carl and I have made the choice, the right one, but I guess that was more my point than anything else. That I was fortunate to be in such a special relationship, and yet stupid enough to knowingly risk his future happiness by ignoring simple health issues, makes me feel very ashamed. Then I think of someone like Angelone, who faces that very situation of being alone, and fearful of a future without companionship. No one deserves that.

I guess I would really want to see us work together to do ALL we can to support one another, to reach out to our brothers and sisters who have not had the love and support of caring companions or children, to reduce the lonliness that for some accompanies the aging process. Does that make sense?

Yes, it does MarkyMark. You, Carl, and your family are so great to everyone. I am proud to be able to call you a true friend. Just don't be so hard on yourself... We all do what we can do. I think you would be surprised to see how many lives you have had a positive impact on. You have always been a resounding positive voice on the Forum. You have always helped me and many others see the glass as half full when we saw it as half empty. I kid you not when I tell you that you embody nobility and the qualities I cherish most in a leader. You are not afraid to get your hands a little dirty with menial work and you advocate for others rights and those of animals, and you help to raise other's self-esteem when they lack the confidence to do it for themselves. Aside from your joking you have always brought a sense of family and m community to the Forum. You have helped many of us see our similarities and not our many differences. I just appreciate you for being you. If those traits are not worth Nobel status, then I guess I am clueless. Bless your heart I hope you have a great rest of the day my dear friend. May you and Carl reign together for many years to come...

 

[thomas1023]

Angelone, Marky, Ruben and everyone,

I am able to relate so much to lonliness. I've only been on the forum very sporatically the last couple of years, but you 'ol timers have helped and encouraged me several years ago. For that, I am and will be forever grateful.

I lost my wife four years ago this April. Her birthday is next month, and our aniversary is in June. Her mother was sick and moved in with us, Susie took care of her mother for several years, and 6 months after her mother passed, Suie became ill and passed 4 1/2 years later. I poured my heart out on the forum, and had such great support here. I've been duluged with work the last year and a half, and have only been with one person a few times about a year ago since Susie's passing about 4 years ago. Now they won't return calls or come over to see me. I work at home and don't go out much and have very few friends. I've always been introverted and making new friends has always been difficult for me. So, I've often wondered if/when I may meet someone else I could spend time with and fall in love. But, in many ways, I've come to accept the lonliness and do work, even if it's a little forced, to go out to see a movie, go out to resturant, the flee market, just to get out of the house and be with others. This helps, but the nights are always difficult.

But, this past Saturday, a friend I've known since college unexpectedly came over and spent the night. I fixed some steaks, show him some music on youtube, had a few drinks, watch an episode of BBC's Sherlock Holmes, and had a great time visiting. It is these rare times which keep me going to try to connect with old friends and attempt to make new ones and enjoy life. I'll not give up, as I hope everyone will keep that spark of hope and faith to continue and find new bonds of love and friendship.

Didn't mean to babble on, so, however, it has been a while. Best Regards, Thomas.

 

[Markymark]

Hi Thomas,

Of course we are so glad to hear from you! As you may have noticed, many of us "babble on so", and you are right that it has been awhile. I am happy that you have found a few minutes to share a wonderful story about your life. You must know we always look forward to hearing about most anything from our members, and even if all you want to do is read other posters, please keep coming back, you're family, like everyone else here!

 

[Markymark]

Now I want to say a big THANK YOU to all the respondents in this thread. Angel, Kaalaupuni, Ms. K, Slim, Stimpy, Jayman, Reuben, and Thomas, you have all given me stuff to think about over the next few weeks as I knuckle down and learn how to live healthy.

God Bless you for being part of the family we have here in Forumland!