America in shut down

[joninliverton]

Once again a major political happening occurs in the USA and no one wants to talk about it. Thousands of government offices and tourist areas are closed because the Republicans and Democrats cannot decide on the budget. How ridiculous is that a country with so much wealth can actually shut down and possible bring the whole world back to a situation we were in in 2008, simply because two parties cannot get their heads together.

Many Brits have cut short their holidays because they cannot get to the tourist areas that they had planned to visit, and yes without no recompense. Your government should be ashamed of itself and should the unthinkable happen such as the fall of the US prime market of 2008, then the USA will not be able to squirm itself out of this one.

 

[mikeyank]

Jon, I am amused at how you expect events in the news to always be discussed on this forum. Keep in mind that these stories, and especially this one is in our faces all day long, from the time we awaken to the morning news, to when those of us who read a newspaper with our coffee. It is discussed on the radio and among our colleagues at work all day too. I don't think that when most of us relax at our computers and log into this particular site after a long hard day are thinking about the government shutdown at that particular moment.

And keep in mind that many long time forumites seem to have disappeared or reduced their time on the forum. A few months ago, I would have expected Robert, (RRHill) or Ms. K or Robb (Buckeye1) or perhaps Lovelumps or JLipps4u, to all have offered an opinion, but all of those forumites seem to have become "former forumites". The current posters on the forum seem to be into discussing the models and the scenes, and that is truly the primary reason and function of the forum.

But this is a subject that I feel strongly on. I do not see how the Democratic party can be held equally responsible, as the ultra right wing "tea party" Republicans are holding America hostage as they refuse to pass a budget unless "Obamacare" is delayed. The Affordable Health Care law is not reliant on this budget, so it is like they are taking a gun and holding someone hostage to get what they want, which was voted as law by Congress, upheld by the Supreme Court as constitutional, and then the American people reelected Obama, but the Tea Party says that the American people do not want "Obamacare". I have seen a couple of articles comparing this to the "McCarthyism", the witch hunt for communists in the 1950's, lead by Republican senator Joseph McCarthy.

 

[cumrag27]

They only know how to tear things apart!

Dear Mikeyank and Jon,

We currently have a bunch of narcissistic members in the House of Representatives (I use this term loosely - translation: Tea Party radicals) who were raised to think that the world revolved around them and nobody else. They cannot accept defeat because they never have had to deal with it before in their personal life! They don't care about law or democracy! All they want is to get re-elected, practice power politics, and take care of their rich friends.

The middle class can be dammed as far as they are concerned. They don't care about how much pain or inconvenience that they cause fellow citizens along the way. Neither do they care about our fragile economy. Really, they are anarchists that drape themselves in the American Flag. They aren't worth 2 cents on a good day!


Sincerely,



Stimpy

 

[advocate88]

Yeah, I agree with mikeyank's take on the situation. It's not that the two sides can't decide on the budget, it's that one side has decided to use a basic governing responsibility as a bludgeon in a policy disagreement over health care. If that somehow became the de rigeur way of resolving policy disagreements in this country we'd be in deep shit. Making sure that doesn't become business as usual is important enough to justify a lot to my mind.

All that said, I'm happy to cop to being ashamed of my government... at least part of it.

 

[cumrag27]

Yeah, I agree with mikeyank's take on the situation. It's not that the two sides can't decide on the budget, it's that one side has decided to use a basic governing responsibility as a bludgeon in a policy disagreement over health care. If that somehow became the de rigeur way of resolving policy disagreements in this country we'd be in deep shit. Making sure that doesn't become business as usual is important enough to justify a lot to my mind.

All that said, I'm happy to cop to being ashamed of my government... at least part of it.

Dear advocate88,

You said it all and I thank you for your well expressed opinion.


Sincerely,


Stimpy

 

[tampa24]

Dear Mikeyank and Jon,

We currently have a bunch of narcissistic members in the House of Representatives (I use this term loosely - translation: Tea Party radicals) who were raised to think that the world revolved around them and nobody else. They cannot accept defeat because they never have had to deal with it before in their personal life! They don't care about law or democracy! All they want is to get re-elected, practice power politics, and take care of their rich friends.

The middle class can be dammed as far as they are concerned. They don't care about how much pain or inconvenience that they cause fellow citizens along the way. Neither do they care about our fragile economy. Really, they are anarchists that drape themselves in the American Flag. They aren't worth 2 cents on a good day!


Sincerely,



Stimpy

Well said, Stimpy.

They can whine about the president or the Democrats not being willing to negotiate all they want. But the Democrats have nothing to negotiate over. As Mikey said, the Affordable Care Act passed Congress and the Senate in 2009, was judged to be legal and constitutional by a majority Republican Supreme Court and Obama was handily re-elected, with voters understanding that he would implement the ACA. What is there for Democrats or President Obama to negotiate over? Plus, all the bill offers for funding government operations (in addition to de-funding and delaying Obamacare) is a few more months breathing room before the Teabaggers create another manufactured fiscal crisis. We'd be right back to looking at a government shutdown again, even if the Dems totally caved on implementing Obamacare right now. Which of course they won't do.

 

[joninliverton]

Some of you guys have in the past tried to educate me on your constitution, but I just get totally confused when something like this crops up. I find it difficult to understand how a single policy such as ACA (which I personally think is well overdue and a good idea) can be delayed by these people. These guys are holding your country to ransom and no constitution should allow that to happen.

Times change and even the British constitution has changed in recent years. Jeez who would have thought that the Royal family would be paying taxes ? Sure we have the House of Lords but even if they object to a Govt proposal, it can still go ahead.

I think it's time that America updated the way it handles affairs such as this, and realised that they are now in the 21st century and modern times requires modern thinking. The covered wagons are now far gone in history..

 

[tampa24]

This is a perfect example of how broken the political process is. Polarization on both sides (but mostly on the far right) shows how poorly the 2 party system is serving the country right now. Moderation, reasonableness and compromise are seen as 4-letter words.

 

[Phantom]

I don't think any education regarding our constitution will help you to understand the situation here, Jon. Unfortunately, that document which was intended to protect the rights of the people is being used as a doormat by those in power. These people, and I mean on both sides, Republican and Democrat, are equally engrossed in their own agendas and can't see past that. I don't recall anything in the constitution limiting us to primarily a two-party system. If we had more parties involved in congress, it might work better (note that I said "might work better"). As it is, the system is broken. Until we the people hold our leaders accountable, there will be no change and the war between the parties will continue. The media pushing their agenda on either side is not helping the situation and the people watching all of this like it is some television drama is making it worse too.

 

[joninliverton]

I think a fundamental flaw is that you elect a President but it doesn't matter what party he was in, he represented himself rather than a political party like David Cameron did and Angela Merkel did and most other European countries too. It is the party that is elected in these countries and the leader of the party then becomes Prime Minister (in the uk), Chancellor (in germany) President (in France) etc etc. At least in these cases the party in power will obviously have a majority so will hold all the cards when it comes through pushing through changes.

 

[another1]

the existence of political parties is the greatest flaw. the first thought was that men of good will would stand for office. now we choose our representatives like we do our soap powder and corn flakes. that aside, there is a group of citizens who believe government is bad. they voted for representatives who reflect their views. in the house, they hold the votes that keep the speaker of the house in power. without them the speaker would have to work with the dems to pass anything. the senate is to act as a reflective body unlike the peoples house which is more reactive. the president gets the pen and the sword; the congress gets the purse and the court gets the scales. a simple system really. the people through the ballot get the final say. the problem with a collective sovereign is we are of different minds. maybe, this whole thing was a big mistake and prince harry would make a cool regent. political parties and campaigns and corporate funded elections were/are not in the constitution, they are flaws that inflect body's system. sorry for rambling.

 

[another1]

conservative republicans and tea party republicans are partners in the house. without the tea party the leadership is without majority support. there is a fear among conservative republicans that there is a tea party candidate waiting for the office. one misstep and it's see you in the primary. so you do something that won't set the folks back home on a tear.

 

[mikeyank]

I don't think any education regarding our constitution will help you to understand the situation here, Jon. Unfortunately, that document which was intended to protect the rights of the people is being used as a doormat by those in power. These people, and I mean on both sides, Republican and Democrat, are equally engrossed in their own agendas and can't see past that. I don't recall anything in the constitution limiting us to primarily a two-party system. If we had more parties involved in congress, it might work better (note that I said "might work better"). As it is, the system is broken. Until we the people hold our leaders accountable, there will be no change and the war between the parties will continue. The media pushing their agenda on either side is not helping the situation and the people watching all of this like it is some television drama is making it worse too.

Please tell me what the Democratic party did wrong to cause this government shutdown. In this particular instance I see all the blame on one party who are holding America hostage because a law that was passed into law, and when challenged was upheld by the Supreme Court, and they still don't like it.

 

[joninliverton]

the existence of political parties is the greatest flaw. the first thought was that men of good will would stand for office. now we choose our representatives like we do our soap powder and corn flakes. that aside, there is a group of citizens who believe government is bad. they voted for representatives who reflect their views. in the house, they hold the votes that keep the speaker of the house in power. without them the speaker would have to work with the dems to pass anything. the senate is to act as a reflective body unlike the peoples house which is more reactive. the president gets the pen and the sword; the congress gets the purse and the court gets the scales. a simple system really. the people through the ballot get the final say. the problem with a collective sovereign is we are of different minds. maybe, this whole thing was a big mistake and prince harry would make a cool regent. political parties and campaigns and corporate funded elections were/are not in the constitution, they are flaws that inflect body's system. sorry for rambling.

Not at all A1 - I would like to state that the European constitutions that I quoted earlier have been going for years. At the end of the day the only thing that would stop government departments working in Uk or France per say, is the actual workers going on strike. It's a very sad day when a govt has to shut down because they cannot pay their staff... very sad indeed.

 

[another1]

in times past, when the king needed money to fight a war he would call a council together. the councils would demand concessions. over time the councils became parliaments sharing power with the king. it is not that the nation's government cannot afford to pay for things, it is the government cannot spend money without a law saying it is ok to. if the president could spend money without authority from congress, then the article one branch of government would be unneeded. that congress (the house) fail to approve paying wages until recently seem unthinkable. insane, rich men have trouble seeing the common persons world. generally,only mad men with money have the time or mindset to run for office.

 

[advocate88]

I was surprised to find out - and this is probably my age showing - that this shutdown is like the 18th since 1970. In my understanding, what's really unprecedented here is that this wasn't a disagreement over what the budget should be, but that one faction refused to perform a basic task unless the opposition caved. It doesn't seem to me to be as much a failure as it is an extremely stupid hijacking.

 

[mikeyank]

I was surprised to find out - and this is probably my age showing - that this shutdown is like the 18th since 1970. In my understanding, what's really unprecedented here is that this wasn't a disagreement over what the budget should be, but that one faction refused to perform a basic task unless the opposition caved. It doesn't seem to me to be as much a failure as it is an extremely stupid hijacking.

Exactly the point Advocate. This is not a constitutional issue but rather a faction of the Republican party committing a mugging, or a highjacking and they want the President to negotiate. The budget and the health care law are two separate issues but the tea party is holding the budget as a hostage to get the health care law modified. Very sad and scary too.

 

[another1]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/30/us-shutdown-explainer-non-americans the guardian explains things this way

 

[Phantom]

Please tell me what the Democratic party did wrong to cause this government shutdown. In this particular instance I see all the blame on one party who are holding America hostage because a law that was passed into law, and when challenged was upheld by the Supreme Court, and they still don't like it.

They are equally as uncompromising as their counterparts. I hold both sides responsible.

 

[cumrag27]

Tea Party needs to stop all their whining!

All I know is that the Tea Party's Grandstanding is costing a lot of people their livelihood and for what? If they were truly so concerned by the National Debt the action created by the Tea Party extremists is costing the US Treasure almost $.5 Billion per day during the shutdown and proves the Tea Party only hates everything associated with Pres. Obama. So the Tea Party can prove they can be bullies and even with their minority standing, they are free to try and tear down a law that is already on the books and the Republican influenced Supreme Court stated the law was legal. They keep on saying Obama won't negotiate, you the Affordable Care Act is based essentially on a Republican plan, much to the regret of most Democrats, I wanted a "single payer" plan but that was not to be according to Senator Grassley(Rep)

We have a lot of people in the US who don't give a dam for the middle and lower classes or whether they can have the benefit of some medical insurance protection. Germany has had socialized medicine since 1850. Why do we insist on being so backwards nationally in social policy that only complements our national aspirations of being a world leader economically?


Sincerely,


Stimpy