Torrid Torin, Awesome Aiden & Sexy Steve

[slimvintage]

Scott, do you mean "stupidest"? It sounds a little like jargon or professionalese, which is often irritating, but jargon is mostly just an expert's way of defining a concept that doesn't already have a definition of its own. You might say that internalized homophobia is a bit like repressed homophobia, but not exactly, nor would unconscious homophobia do the trick. I don't find those concepts stupid, or at least not superlatively stupid.

I actually think it's a personality flaw to dislike (often the word "hate" is used) effeminate boys and men. A whole bunch of your fellow gay guys, not "your" but our, have something in their mannerisms or their walk, or a flutiness in their voices, that makes them come off as un-butch. I'd never suggest that anyone was anti-nelly because he feared and hated the nelliness in himself, because I don't actually believe all that stuff. But it's sad to me that the same guys who are bashed, bullied or dissed by hetero hooligans, can also be rejected by their fellow homos for the same reasons.

 

[tampa24]

You can correct me if I'm wrong Scott. But I think the point that you're trying to make is that too many times we use labels and justifications out of a perceived need to show political correctness. All in order to cover up what our natural carnal inclinations are. Even to the point of self deprecation. And if that's the case I do see your point.

For instance if we are not at all attracted to red heads or tall people, or short people, or fat people, or skinny people, we feel the need to apologize for the fact that they simply don't get our dicks hard. Then if it comes to highly charged matters of certain people of different ethnic backgrounds we feel that we have to be super defensive, apologetic, and even fall on our swords if again they simply don't get our dicks hard. We feel the obligation to explain that our lack of attraction to individual models or people comes not from a place of racism but purely a matter of individual sexual attraction.

The same goes for issues of fem vs. straight acting in the gay world. Those of us who are not into fem guys feel like we need to apologize for the fact that we find them sexual turnoffs. I think the reason we use the term "internalized homophobia" so much though is because some in the gay community feel that to be fully out that we must be accepting of all the colors of the gay rainbow. The fem boys, the bears, the leather crowd, the S&M crowd, the drag queens, the transgendered, etc, etc.

I don't care for 95% of the fem bois. They're a real turnoff to me sexually. For me they are a buzzkill whenever they are in porn scenes. That doesn't mean that I've never met any that I liked. I have a few wonderfully sweet and charming young men who are fems. It does mean though that I don't want to have sex with 95% of them. And I don't want to watch them having sex either.

I will also admit that some of them would embarrass me if I was seen out in public or certain social situations with them. There are many in the PC community who would say that that makes me a bad gay. That I should be comfortable socially with all the rainbow colors while out in the straight world as well. And if I'm not, then maybe there is something wrong with me. Like internalized homophobia.

What do you guys think?

 

[elyot1]

Internal Homophobia

You said a mouthful, Tampa.

Slim, I have never experienced or known anyone who experinced being beaten up, etc. because of who they are. I hope I never am that unlucky.
You make a point. I am not interested in persecuting fem guys and shouldn't use the word 'hate' when what I mean to say is that I am not interested in them sexually or in porn.

But to tell the truth the fems guys I have been around are more into being gay than they are about developing a talent, skill or a cure for cancer. Never seem to have much to talk about with them. The only thing we seem to have in common is that we are gay and that's not the most important thing about me.

 

[chase3398]

just have to say that I really enjoyed this one. Torin is the star since so much surrounds his 'anti gay' attitude. Aiden is simply wonderful..I'd love to see him with others. Steve is the perfect victim. Very well cast and very well done. Is this out of sequence since anal was part of the last vid..or is there more to come? Great job from all three!

 

[chase3398]

almost forgot....the tight shots of steve's generous foreskin were just awesome! I was waiting for Aiden to slide his tounge inside of it.

 

[joninliverton]

just have to say that I really enjoyed this one. Torin is the star since so much surrounds his 'anti gay' attitude. Aiden is simply wonderful..I'd love to see him with others. Steve is the perfect victim. Very well cast and very well done. Is this out of sequence since anal was part of the last vid..or is there more to come? Great job from all three!

Well it definately appears out of sequence Chase and one reason why I say this is because Steve actually seems a lot more relaxed around Aiden in the previous "anal" film. In the aformentioned film I have stated that I didn't like Torins anti-gay attitude - he certainly was more anti gay in this one but not just anti-gay but downright rude towards Aiden.

Aiden is the star by following the "sticks and stones" policy. Well done Aiden, you're a love.

 

[jasonaz]

I can't believe I don't have anything to add except that this is one enjoyable read. Love him or Hate him, Torrin is the star of this series because he always stirs up the most spirited debates, Aiden is the most divisive among the forumites and Steve is a willing understudy. Now that's entertainment!!

 

[Denny Bear]

This was a lot of fun to watch. I read some of the reviews first that talked about 9 minutes of bickering and figured I would hate it but actually it was sort of funny to watch them squirm. Then when Aiden came into the room it only got better as he sort of led them along. I am really starting to like Aiden as he is fun to watch and always so eager to help. I do SINCERELY wish that David would see fit to pay him a reasonable amount. To me paying the guy guys less is sort of an insult to all of us. In my book they should be paid more in an effort to support our own kind.

 

[mikeyank]

I do SINCERELY wish that David would see fit to pay him a reasonable amount. To me paying the guy guys less is sort of an insult to all of us. In my book they should be paid more in an effort to support our own kind.

Keep in mind Denny Bear, that no one from management has ever confirmed or denied if the amount of money quoted by David in the film, is actually the real amount that they get paid.

I recall reading an interview with David, that was linked to this site about porn sites that show straight guys having gay sex for money, and I believe David said that the models are all paid a minimum of $500. There was also a recent contest shoot that included Logan, and he lost and supposedly walked away from the shoot without getting paid. The reality is not always exactly what is said during the banter on screen, so I feel confident that "gay boy" Aiden was handsomely rewarded for his performance on the futon as well. We can't take all the dialog as gospel.

 

[LesterM]

To quote a song " Many colors in the homo rainbow" I still find this sccene unwatchable although i am glad so many people find it fun and erotic

 

[joninliverton]

To quote a song " Many colors in the homo rainbow" I still find this sccene unwatchable although i am glad so many people find it fun and erotic

What gets me Lester my friend, is that so called gay members are so loving Torin being so cruel to Aiden. I've also noticed that they are similarly cruel to other "campish" guys on the site. Mind you the same brigade are also cruel to the "not so pretty" models like Holden. I put not so pretty in inverted commas because I was diplomatic with my quotations which are not from me, but the same said anti gay forumites. I quite like Holden tbh.

I'd like to know which bars (if any) these people frequent and, if they saw a gay guy getting bashed would they help him out or join in the bashing. I suspect the latter.

I shall give a 5 to this film and all the 5 is for Aiden.

Torin gets a minus 5 and Steve 5 which means jointly they get a big fat zero.

David - I await your comments with baited breath. x

 

[mikeyank]

Response to joninliverton's attack on members of this forum who disagree with him

What gets me Lester my friend, is that so called gay members are so loving Torin being so cruel to Aiden. I've also noticed that they are similarly cruel to other "campish" guys on the site. Mind you the same brigade are also cruel to the "not so pretty" models like Holden. I put not so pretty in inverted commas because I was diplomatic with my quotations which are not from me, but the same said anti gay forumites. I quite like Holden tbh.

I'd like to know which bars (if any) these people frequent and, if they saw a gay guy getting bashed would they help him out or join in the bashing. I suspect the latter.

I shall give a 5 to this film and all the 5 is for Aiden.

Torin gets a minus 5 and Steve 5 which means jointly they get a big fat zero.

David - I await your comments with baited breath. x

Jon, When you started in on Torin again, I thought that you were being "tongue in cheek", but apparently you are dead serious about his performance. (By the way, what you call inverted commas, are commonly known as "in quotes" in the USA).

Now point by point:
1-"What gets me Lester my friend, is that so called gay members are so loving Torin being so cruel to Aiden. I've also noticed that they are similarly cruel to other "campish" guys on the site."
This is a fantasy video site Jon, not a documentary of real guys in real life. There are a segment of gay men, (myself included) who are turned on by straight guys. (I assumed that the majority of guys who subscribe to Broke Straight Boys are turned on by straight guys, or else why would they pay a monthly fee to watch guys who are portrayed as being straight?.

How do you define cruelty that you say that Torin showed toward Aiden?, and the similar cruelty that you see expressed to "campish" guys on the site? Torin is playing a role of a "hard ass" straight guy who is turned off by gays. But of course the real person, playing the role of Torin on screen cannot contain his hard cock from rising at the mere thought of getting naked and getting head. Can't you see the difference, Jon? To me it's so obvious.

And if I say that I am not sexually turned on by a "nelly gay boy", why do you consider that cruel? To me, it is only expressing a preference.

2-"Mind you the same brigade are also cruel to the "not so pretty" models like Holden. I put not so pretty in inverted commas because I was diplomatic with my quotations which are not from me, but the same said anti gay forumites. I quite like Holden tbh." Why are you lumping together guys who think that Holden is "not so pretty",with guys turned off by "campish" guys on the site? Did you study the posts on both subjects, and determine that it is the "same brigade" posting similarly on both subjects?

3-"I'd like to know which bars (if any) these people frequent and, if they saw a gay guy getting bashed would they help him out or join in the bashing. I suspect the latter."
This is the most absurd point you are making in your entire post. Do you truly believe that I would act this way, because I am sexually turned on by masculine straight guys, that I would join in the bashing of a fem gay dude? That is actually rather insulting of you to say, and I would appreciate an apology.

4-"David - I await your comments with baited breath."
I believe that David is away for the holidays, but I really don't see any need for David to dignify your attack on this site for "gay bashing". Again this is a fantasy pay web site for guys, (and at least one woman), who enjoy watching good looking young, in shape males who portend to be straight, getting naked, and performing in gay sex, to one extent or another.

I do have a few questions for you Jon. Why do you subscribe to this particular internet porn site, if you are not attracted to straight guys?

Do you ever watch movies, plays or television programs where violence is portrayed as being inflicted on others? By watching such scenes, does that mean that you are the type who would stand by idly in real life, if you saw similar acts of violence being committed?

And if you feel so strongly that Aiden is being treated cruelly, why is he so eager to suck the straight boy's dick's, and get fucked by the straight boys? Why do you sing his praises so highly, when he is the one actually portraying himself to be a gay boy who enjoys being dominated by "cruel" straight guys? Why don't you chastise Aiden for his complicity in what you consider to be an unfair treatment of gay guys?

You actually make me wonder, if you have a firm grasp on the difference between porn vids and real life?

 

[jasonaz]

Mikeyank, Thank You for bringing a true intelligence to the forum, not the mere semblance of same.
I too, have fought this battle from the frontlines before, but I must say it is far more enjoyable watching you pick apart the opposition. I think your last paragraph and sentence says it all, but I doubt it will quell the subject as most people are quite stubborn in their positions and rarely if ever can they be convinced otherwise. To them Torin will always be the "hater" that treated Aiden so cruelly. Thank God he did'nt say faggot again!
For the record, I subscribe to this site, as many do for the "straight" boys, I don't care to see fem boys like Aiden, however "cute" and "adorable" he may be to some members.

- J

 

[lpdude86]

I enjoy Torin and Steve, they seem like regular guys,not the prettied -up models we can see on any other site. I l ike the guys to be "regular guys".
Aiden is just a little too flaming for me but he adds some funnyness to the video.
I would like to see Torin and Steve do scenes without each other to see how they are without each other in the room.
I also gave the video a 4. It would have been really hot if David would have convinced one of them to taste their own cum or possibly kiss Aiden.

I could go on for a while but I need to be careful I am at home from school and am currently sharing my room with my cousin. I need to sneak my porn moments when I can. hope everyone is enjoying the holidays.

 

[baal]

Thank you, Mike. I just wish you had taken on 'internalized homophobia' as well. That one is a crock of shit too. It's like saying I'm racist because I'm not sexually attracted to Black guys. There's an expression 'the heart wants what the heart wants' that can also be said 'the crotch wants what the crotch wants' and you can try to reason and give PC platitudes like some very irritating posters or you can just accept that sexual attraction is stored in a separate part of the brain from reasoning and leave it at that...

Oh and it was profoundly nasty to suggest disliking fems on film could equal condoning gay bashing. I wouldn't put up with anyone being pounded or hurt, and that includes even criminals, by a group or mob. It was an awful debate tactic to use and I find it usually rears its ugly head when someone doesn't have a reasoned argument of their own to put forth so tarring opponents in a putrid and nonsensical way is teh best they can come up with...

 

[rifle]

Oh, my God, do I love redheads. Show me some ginger and I’ll turn it into an American Pie – if you get my drift. I’ve been that way all my life. Redheads turn me on. I have mixed feelings about long, glossy black hair. I’ve never quite been able to get past the fact that somewhere, in the height of passion, it gets in my face and bothers me. It doesn’t turn me on. Strangely, the worst enemy I ever had had flaming red hair, and my best friend has shoulder length glossy black. Funny thing is, I never considered sex with either.

I was raised to understand a few simple rules about social behavior. If you can’t stand to be around people who can only afford to wear cheap clothing, use poor grammar, and whose appearance is not always immaculate, you are a classist, a snob; if you can’t stand to be around people who are of a different race, you are a racist, a bigot; if you can’t stand to be around people who are of a different . . . well, you get the idea.

There’s a big difference between knowing what turns you on and not being able to tolerate a whole group in a social setting. Please don’t fall back on the old “Some of my best friends are. . .” That’s usually followed by “I just don’t like people who. . .” and that negates the whole thing. We are all such contradictions in terms. Yes, quite often effeminate gay men are more feminine than women and like to talk about show tunes and casseroles and floor polish and butch gay men are more masculine than humanly possible and only speak of end runs and toggle bolts and bench presses. Does that make them unbearable? Only if we are homophobic.

And there that ugly word rears its head. How can we not be? We are raised to be. Even before we have a sexual identity we are taught who to laugh at, who to shun, who to hate. When we finally acknowledge what we are, we bury it, but it creeps back to the surface. To fail to identify it in ourselves is to fail to acknowledge its existence and that just passes it on. And to spend our days reading cookbooks and waxing our floors and our nights refusing to talk to others who do the same is self-deception. At least own up to it. Who knows, you might one day discover the truth.

A choreographer friend of mine lived in the Village in the 80s near a shop called the Marquis de Suede. He went out on Saturday nights in full leather - underneath he wore silk panties. My husband and I asked him about it. His very New York answer was simple. "I like men in leather. I wear the leather to attract what I like. I wear the silk for me."

Forty years ago I stumbled into a laundromat at 2am and was knocked down by the smell. Eight Hell’s Angels had come in to escape the rain and had all their belongings in five dryers. They sat in their underwear while everything else dried. My first thought was to turn to run. I could read the headlines, “Local teacher killed by Hell’s Angels in Laundry.” I decided I couldn’t outrun them and put my clothes in the first washers I came to, making quick note of the dryers they were using so I could avoid them.

I had trouble holding one of my baskets while sorting into the washers and suddenly a long arm covered with red hair reached over and held the basket. (I told you; I’m a sucker.) I got the washers started, and, while the clothes washed and rinsed, and he cleaned his fingernails with an eight inch blade, we talked. We talked about life on the road and my home town and teaching and the rain. When they left, I was sorry to see them go. To this day when I’m in a café or a service station and a group of Angels pull in, I speak. Invariably, they speak back. On the highway, I wave. I got over my fear. A little knowledge goes a long way.

I’m not asking you to go to bed with a, how do you say, “fem boi;” I’m not even asking you to watch a video with one. But can we give up on the arguments against them. I know the site advertises “Straight Boys,” but, from the very first, the management has clearly indicated its intent to utilize the services of gay boys now and then to spice up the action, introduce certain sexual activities, and liven up the proceedings. A goodly portion of the membership doesn’t mind. So, can we drop the argument about what the site advertises. Yes, it is titled “Straight Boys” and it certainly features plenty of them. I watched a terrible movie on HBO last night called “Bride Wars” and not everybody in it was a bride – should I sue HBO? And AMC better get Elizabeth Moss and January Jones the hell off “Mad Men” because the title advertises Men and I’ve seen both of them and neither one is a man.

One other pissy little point: walk into your local supermarket the next time they’re advertising milk at cost - $2.47 a gallon – and tell them they’re not paying enough for it. Tell them as a cash-paying customer you have a right to dictate their wholesale price. Then step back and wait for the laughter. Your only right there is to not buy the product – here you can rate the scene, so go ahead vote your prejudices; it’s the American way. If the scores go low enough, they’ll disappear. If the scores don’t, maybe you’ll learn to like it, or to leave those that do alone. And remember, this is a fantasy site. The only firm grasp anyone is entitled to question is his own.

 

[mikeyank]

....................I’m not asking you to go to bed with a, how do you say, “fem boi;” I’m not even asking you to watch a video with one. But can we give up on the arguments against them. I know the site advertises “Straight Boys,” but, from the very first, the management has clearly indicated its intent to utilize the services of gay boys now and then to spice up the action, introduce certain sexual activities, and liven up the proceedings. A goodly portion of the membership doesn’t mind. So, can we drop the argument about what the site advertises. Yes, it is titled “Straight Boys” and it certainly features plenty of them...........

Rifle, you seem to be implying that there has been "bashing" of the "fem boi's" on the forum. I know that I have not in any way put down the more flamboyant guys that Dave brings in to spice up the action, as you say.

In fact, I have great respect for the more "obvious" appearing gays in our society, for it has been said that the drag queens were the true hero's of gay liberation. They paved the way for us "straight acting" guys to gain rights without having to fight the war. In no way do I want to denigrate effeminate guys. But I certainly don't see anything wrong in stating my opinion about a model in a video or saying that these are not typically the kind of guy that I'm attracted to.

And of the more effeminate guys on the site, Aiden is perhaps my favorite. I think that he was definitely the one that brought the story along in the latest episode. He was also witty and the best looking of the three in the scene. His hot body, cute face, and naughty mind totally balanced this scene with two very straight appearing, but very rough around the edges country boys. Yes I do come to the site for the straight guys, but I understand the value of the more obvious gay boys in some of the scenes too.

 

[rifle]

I guess you haven't been reading this thread too closely - or the five or six threads on the same subject which have preceded it in the last year. Bashing can be subtle or it can be full blown. It doesn't have to involve a fist, merely an attitude of disgust with the subject or with those who support the subject is enough. However, that's immaterial. You're right, you have not. Only twice, in fact, did I directly reference you: once with the line about "advertising content" for the site and once with the "grasp" quote at the end. Anywhere else you might have found a sting came from your own mind and not mine.

Your second paragraph is so true. It was at the heart of Stonewall and is at the heart of every Pride parade I've ever seen. The pity is it’s so seldom said by anyone on the forum. As William S. says “'tis true, 'tis true 'tis pity, And pity 'tis 'tis true.”

Why did I write what I did? Because I didn’t read a single argument from any one that held water. Everyone is trying to justify sex and society and it doesn’t work. If it did, we wouldn’t have Cinderella or Cinderfella. In “Parting Glances” the twink says he looked at his dick and said, “Who do you like?” and his dick said, “Guys.” It’s that simple. Your dick has a mind of it’s own. In a modern multicultural world, you cannot allow fear, ignorance, and misperception to dictate who you will or will not associate with. You know, when I was first teaching I had a 350 lb. drag queen who wore stilettos on a hardwood floor live upstairs over me and when I was working on my MFA I lived across the hall from a gay, black, hunchback dwarf and his 6’3” Irish lover – they were among the best neighbors I’ve ever had. My immediate friends include two Academy Award winners, a paroled murder, an out of work cowboy, a dishwasher, a Tony nominee, a chef, a soprano at the Met, and a Muppeteer, along with teachers, clerks, florists, hairstylists, Olympic athletes, a lot of farmers and a few people in the porn business. Most of them will be at my house for New Year’s Eve.

By the way, Mikeyank, before you and Jon, rip into each other again, on December 3, you wrote one of my favorite forum quotes to him, “Keep in mind Jon, that the guys who post on the forum have wide and varied tastes and opinions. You can't assume that the same guys who want passion, kissing and rimming are necessarily the guys who complain about the models being too gay. I haven't gone back to analyze the postings, but that is my assumption. I personally never complain that there is not enough passion, as I agree with what you said, "get real, straight guys don't do passion or kissing or rimming". And I will complain when I feel a model is ‘too gay’.”

Please complain away, but can we stop the pointless arguing. It’s not going to change anything; it’s not even going to realign the fences.

 

[joninliverton]

Well my post certainly brought out the Broke Straight Boys forum mafia LOL and I didn't even have to name names, you all just jumped out of the water and took the bait. But I don't mind taking a verbal bullying from you heavies, sticks and stones and all that, but it seems par for the course within this forum. And before you start gay bashing again, and please feel free to do so, I have had many PMs of support from other young gays who feel the treatment of Aiden, and your support of that, will drive some members away.

It's also interesting to see Mike write that he has "great respect for the more "obvious" appearing gays in our society".

I say it to you Mike, and all your Mafia buddies, by championing the verbal abuse of Aiden and calling Torin a star you show no respect whatsoever, but just revel in someone getting hurt. Something that you and your straight acting buddies obviously didn't want (getting hurt) to get involved in during "the fight" as you stated earlier on.

"They paved the way for us "straight acting" guys to gain rights without having to fight the war."

 

[slimvintage]

Rifle, your own arguments are superb argument stoppers in themselves: the close reasoning, the wisdom and the humor. On the other hand, the forum anti-nelly brigade is composed of friends of yours who have good reason to seek support among each other. I say let the argument continue; maybe after your last two posts there are things that still need to be said.

What amuses me is how the bald assertion of "I can't stand nelly boys" or "I hate flaming queens" is cloaked in the guise of innate, nothing-I-can-do-about-it, personal sexual preference, when the brigade is challenged on what looks, sounds and smells like internalized homophobia. And even more hilarious is their excuse that the discussion is taking place on the message board of a porn site about boys pretending to be Kinsey zeros, and where nelly sixes ought not to be welcome. Otherwise their dicks go limp and that's certainly not what they're shelling out for.

As if it's OK to say you hate effeminate men because you are protected by the name, misnomer in fact, of Broke Straight Boys Jesus.