i2ina69
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Ok here's the thread where we can discuss this issue!
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R U American or not.
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GreatLakes2
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If you are American before you go into the bathroom, and your are American when you come out of the bathroom, what are you when you are in the bathroom?
European.
Fifth grade is now officially in session.
European.
Fifth grade is now officially in session.
gremlin2k08
Well-known Member
Personally I feel that this particular thread, intended to bring the 10 random facts about you thread back to its original purpose, is a perfect example of how childish we can all be at times. Does it truly matter what nationality we claim, what our heritage is or even what brand of toilet paper we use........ Yes we are granted liberty to express our opinions in this wonderful forum, but this is one topic that is irrelevant, pointless, and futile to discuss!
gremlin2k08
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I also want to note that even though this topic is as I just stated useless, I do appreciate i2ina69 for bringing this discussion out of its pervious home......
GreatLakes2
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Sorry, that was a lame start.
On the topic of America and American Pride:
I feel blessed to be American, I am not ashamed of being American, but I think pride is a strong word. I was born here. It was not an accomplishment, it was just what happened.
I think this country is rich in accessible natural resources and has diverse climates to aid in maximizing these resources. We were founded with a modern ideology that was not based in religious rule or a 'divine' monarchy.
This allowed us to grow rapidly, embrace new ways of thinking about government and personal liberty and allowed us to believe in our potential as humans. To that end we corrected wrongs like slavery and cruel and unusual punishment.
Somewhere along the way, we lost our path. Our moral compass was demagnetized and we became greedy and more interested in personal wealth and comfort than compassion and justice. This has resulted in polluting our environment, living on credit cards to serve our need for immediate gratification, and engaging in the torture and oppression that our founding fathers came here to escape. Our government is corrupt as evidenced by recent illegal scandals and even legal atrocities such as spending over one BILLION dollars to elect a president.
There is hope. We are an innovative people with tremendous drive. It will get worse for a while until we lose the flab we have developed from a diet rich of living beyond our means. We are at our best when we are in touch with what we do and experience the impact of our actions. In WWII, we had shortages, rations, bought war bonds and made sacrifices. The current war has been fought on a credit card so we did not feel a thing. (No disrespect to the brave men and women who have made the ultimate sacrifice.)
During our industrial revolution, we had unsafe and unfair working environments not to mention what we were doing to the land and waters of the country. We decided that it was worth paying more for goods to correct those issues. Then someone discovered we can have still have cheap goods if we just have other countries oppress their people and destroy their lands and waters.
(Anyone still reading?)
Can anyone be proud to be an American until we get back to being a true leader and setting an example for the world? Until we put more value on the condition of humanity and less value on whether everyone in the country has a new cell phone every six months and cars that can transport small armies while sucking down oil as if it were cocaine in a 1977 Fleetwood Mac dressing room.
Our industries have become so complacent that the current issue of Consumer Reports is hard pressed to find anything nice to say about American cars. What happened to our agility?
So who wants me to shut up and go back to bad jokes and finding typos?
On the topic of America and American Pride:
I feel blessed to be American, I am not ashamed of being American, but I think pride is a strong word. I was born here. It was not an accomplishment, it was just what happened.
I think this country is rich in accessible natural resources and has diverse climates to aid in maximizing these resources. We were founded with a modern ideology that was not based in religious rule or a 'divine' monarchy.
This allowed us to grow rapidly, embrace new ways of thinking about government and personal liberty and allowed us to believe in our potential as humans. To that end we corrected wrongs like slavery and cruel and unusual punishment.
Somewhere along the way, we lost our path. Our moral compass was demagnetized and we became greedy and more interested in personal wealth and comfort than compassion and justice. This has resulted in polluting our environment, living on credit cards to serve our need for immediate gratification, and engaging in the torture and oppression that our founding fathers came here to escape. Our government is corrupt as evidenced by recent illegal scandals and even legal atrocities such as spending over one BILLION dollars to elect a president.
There is hope. We are an innovative people with tremendous drive. It will get worse for a while until we lose the flab we have developed from a diet rich of living beyond our means. We are at our best when we are in touch with what we do and experience the impact of our actions. In WWII, we had shortages, rations, bought war bonds and made sacrifices. The current war has been fought on a credit card so we did not feel a thing. (No disrespect to the brave men and women who have made the ultimate sacrifice.)
During our industrial revolution, we had unsafe and unfair working environments not to mention what we were doing to the land and waters of the country. We decided that it was worth paying more for goods to correct those issues. Then someone discovered we can have still have cheap goods if we just have other countries oppress their people and destroy their lands and waters.
(Anyone still reading?)
Can anyone be proud to be an American until we get back to being a true leader and setting an example for the world? Until we put more value on the condition of humanity and less value on whether everyone in the country has a new cell phone every six months and cars that can transport small armies while sucking down oil as if it were cocaine in a 1977 Fleetwood Mac dressing room.
Our industries have become so complacent that the current issue of Consumer Reports is hard pressed to find anything nice to say about American cars. What happened to our agility?
So who wants me to shut up and go back to bad jokes and finding typos?
i2ina69
BSB Addict
I don't mean to be rude but all that other stuff was taking away from the topic. 10 or more thing about YOU. I for am intrested in learning more about other people. I hope this new tread does not affend anyone, and if it does I am sorry.
With love and peace in my hart for all who visit this site and this forum.your friend. i2ina69...
With love and peace in my hart for all who visit this site and this forum.your friend. i2ina69...
mitch768292
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gremlin2k08
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No, Keep adding to this thread..... I find your post quite refreshing.... It is nice to know that others feel as dishearted with our country as I do. Yes, I am thankful that we live in a land where we can, for the most, vocalize our opinions; however, I feel we have overstepped our roots and boundaries. We are the self elected world police, a position that is not needed nor really wanted. We are very nosey. WE must know what is going on with everyone else in the world and make certain that others are well taken care of, while our own people are losing there jobs everyday.
Our constitution was founded on the priciple of being united "STATES" governed (managed) by one central government that maintained a overall fluidity of our nation.... NOT a central government that has ties in all forms of regulation and policies rooted down to the very fabric of our cities/towns/villages/whatever. Our central government has overstepped its core design
With the current ideal of restructuring our economic system, while it is an "ideal" concept, it is just that a concept..... Any new taxes and fines and whatever else the government assigns to the bigger corporations. ultimately it will do nothing to correct the current situation..... Who do you think will feel the effect of these new tarrifs? In the end the added cost/no longer available tax breaks that these big corporations will be passed down to the common consumer
Our constitution was founded on the priciple of being united "STATES" governed (managed) by one central government that maintained a overall fluidity of our nation.... NOT a central government that has ties in all forms of regulation and policies rooted down to the very fabric of our cities/towns/villages/whatever. Our central government has overstepped its core design
With the current ideal of restructuring our economic system, while it is an "ideal" concept, it is just that a concept..... Any new taxes and fines and whatever else the government assigns to the bigger corporations. ultimately it will do nothing to correct the current situation..... Who do you think will feel the effect of these new tarrifs? In the end the added cost/no longer available tax breaks that these big corporations will be passed down to the common consumer
gremlin2k08
Well-known Member
I make no claim to being a censor for this site or any other. As I stated at the very beginning of my post PERSONALLY I was making my opinion on the matter known.....
mitch768292
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I agree with 90% of that.
tucsonjayce
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American or not
I'm a tad bit confused. Is this thread about us disclosing our citizenship? Or is it about something else, maybe along the lines of a McCarthy-esque debate on american v. unamerican.
If it is the former, the I state for the record that I am a natural born citizen of the United States of America.
If it is the latter, I don't care to partake. Short of committing treason, there isn't much of anything we can do that is not american: dissent, flag burning, being gay, liking porn, whatever. Yes even being a bigot is included.
Yours always,
Jayce
I'm a tad bit confused. Is this thread about us disclosing our citizenship? Or is it about something else, maybe along the lines of a McCarthy-esque debate on american v. unamerican.
If it is the former, the I state for the record that I am a natural born citizen of the United States of America.
If it is the latter, I don't care to partake. Short of committing treason, there isn't much of anything we can do that is not american: dissent, flag burning, being gay, liking porn, whatever. Yes even being a bigot is included.
Yours always,
Jayce
mitch768292
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Neither one really Jayce. It is about should you call yourself an American or not. This discussion spilled over from another thread where I said that if you are an American you should be proud to say so and not call yourself "Irish" or "British" or "German" when you were born and raised right here in the states. I guess I am making the argument that everybody needs to drop the hyphens and just be proud to be an American, period.
tucsonjayce
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I'm in
Am I proud to be an american? Yes. Through no effort on my part I was born in the greatest country the world has ever seen. Have I been embarrassed or ashamed to be an american? Yes. When I got asked what happened during Katrina by citizens of the UK. When I was given a laundry list of complaints about the actions and policies of the Bush administration by citizens of Portugal, UK, Uruguay, Argentina, Brazil, Ireland, Australia, Thailand and Vietnam. When I researched my planned trip to Greece and found that it probably wasn't a good time to go because we had just invaded Iraq. When I talk to my friends overseas and they tell me that the US has lost it's way.
I have proudly served my country by putting on the uniform of an army officer. I serve my state by being on two advisory boards for the AZ Dept of Health Services. I have served my community by volunteering on the Ryan White Consortia for over 14 years (serving as co-chair for 7 years). My pride in our country and an obligation to help others I may never meet dictated that I serve. I am not bragging, just stating how I have expressed my pride.
Again, I thank you for the opportunity to contribute, I just hope I haven't missed the mark....
Yours always,
Jayce
Am I proud to be an american? Yes. Through no effort on my part I was born in the greatest country the world has ever seen. Have I been embarrassed or ashamed to be an american? Yes. When I got asked what happened during Katrina by citizens of the UK. When I was given a laundry list of complaints about the actions and policies of the Bush administration by citizens of Portugal, UK, Uruguay, Argentina, Brazil, Ireland, Australia, Thailand and Vietnam. When I researched my planned trip to Greece and found that it probably wasn't a good time to go because we had just invaded Iraq. When I talk to my friends overseas and they tell me that the US has lost it's way.
I have proudly served my country by putting on the uniform of an army officer. I serve my state by being on two advisory boards for the AZ Dept of Health Services. I have served my community by volunteering on the Ryan White Consortia for over 14 years (serving as co-chair for 7 years). My pride in our country and an obligation to help others I may never meet dictated that I serve. I am not bragging, just stating how I have expressed my pride.
Again, I thank you for the opportunity to contribute, I just hope I haven't missed the mark....
Yours always,
Jayce
You contrast our potential for great and noble achievements against our current challenges and transgressions quite well. We still have the ability to tap into that innovative spirit and shared sacrifice for the greater good. You've given me a great idea for another thread just now. More on this later.... But here's a hint.
Our founders declared that this new nation would establish a Novo Ordo Seclorum. A New Order of the Ages. For other men to try to claim this it might have seemed haughty and arrogant beyond belief. Yet our founders were quite serious that they wanted this country to be THE beacon of freedom on the planet. They wanted us to lead the world by our example of what was possible for the potential of the human spirit. We need to remember the founding principles of the Republic and endevour to work toward the common good of humanity as a whole as well as the individual pursuit of life, liberty and happiness.
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Markymark
BSB Addict
This is exactly what I was alluding to in a previous thread where it was mentioned that people I knew had had "rough" treatment. This is why it is hard, (notice, I did NOT say impossible) to be proud of being an American right now, as I am aware of the global damage wreaked in the name of freedom and democracy. If that fact bothers some, so be it. And, just so we are clear, I AM AMERICAN, but my ancestry and heritage lies with several countries IN EUROPE! And I am proud of that, as well!
With Love, (for country & heritage,) I am,
GreatLakes2
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I am heartened by the fact that I was not drawn and quartered for my opinions.
I will go on to say in regards to our current financial crisis, we have met the enemy and it is us.
Decades ago, stock holders and investors were an abstract crowd; faceless suits on Wall Street that someone else worried about.
Enter the age of 401k's, IRA's, and mutual funds. As we became the guardians of our own retirement funds rather than depending on our pensions, we became keenly aware of the returns on our investments. And if fund A returned 8% and fund B returned 9%, we shifted our money into B. Eventually the returns were unrealistic and unsustainable. The only way the companies that those funds were invested in could continue to crank out high returns and attract investors was to cut costs.
The quickest way was to cut labor costs by finding a cheaper work force. Mexico, China, Indonesia, and so many others had the people who were willing to work for a tiny fraction of their American counterparts. Bye bye American jobs. Add to this the artificially low cost of fossil fuels and we have situations where it is cheaper to move materials all over the planet than to pay American workers.
LL Bean, a company with an all-American Down East reputation, could issue a one page catalog of all the products that they carry that are made here. In one case, they are still buying fleece made in Brunswick, Maine, shipping it to the Far East to be cut and sewn into garments, shipped back to Maine and then shipped out to their customers.
When people say we need tariffs to keep the cheaper foreign goods from coming ashore, I wonder what will happen when they have to pay the full price of American made goods. Either they will priced significantly higher than they are now, or the American worker is going to have to settle for a much smaller wage. Either way, Americans are going to end up with less in their wallets and shopping bags. And that, my friends, is the crux of the matter.
We are so used to luxuries that other world citizens can't even imagine that we don't know how to live within our means any longer. It has gotten visible worse just during my lifetime. When I was in high school, you had to have special permission to drive your car to school. Now every high school around me has built giant parking lots for students. "My child HAS to have a car, how else would they get to their jobs/games/fill-in-the-blank?" Well, somewhere south of their genitals (or gentiles, depending on where you learn English) they have legs. That method worked for us when we were growing up.
Speaking of English, I have little patience for those that complain that they don't want to press one to continue in English. Our artificial wealth bubble of the last two decades was built on the backs of the poor people of the world. We have taken their cheap labor and destroyed their environments, do we have to take their language away too? Not to mention when you see and hear what we have done to our language, it ain't 'zackly the Queenz English we be defending. Word.
Our path back to prosperity will not be easy. We need to use resources wisely, pay more for domestic goods and learn to live with less, strive to buy food grown locally (the amount of energy used to transport food back and forth across the country is staggering) and be responsible world citizens.
Unless we get back on track with the founding principles of this great land, the gap between haves and have-nots will widen and implode.
Hoping I still have some friends left,
John
I will go on to say in regards to our current financial crisis, we have met the enemy and it is us.
Decades ago, stock holders and investors were an abstract crowd; faceless suits on Wall Street that someone else worried about.
Enter the age of 401k's, IRA's, and mutual funds. As we became the guardians of our own retirement funds rather than depending on our pensions, we became keenly aware of the returns on our investments. And if fund A returned 8% and fund B returned 9%, we shifted our money into B. Eventually the returns were unrealistic and unsustainable. The only way the companies that those funds were invested in could continue to crank out high returns and attract investors was to cut costs.
The quickest way was to cut labor costs by finding a cheaper work force. Mexico, China, Indonesia, and so many others had the people who were willing to work for a tiny fraction of their American counterparts. Bye bye American jobs. Add to this the artificially low cost of fossil fuels and we have situations where it is cheaper to move materials all over the planet than to pay American workers.
LL Bean, a company with an all-American Down East reputation, could issue a one page catalog of all the products that they carry that are made here. In one case, they are still buying fleece made in Brunswick, Maine, shipping it to the Far East to be cut and sewn into garments, shipped back to Maine and then shipped out to their customers.
When people say we need tariffs to keep the cheaper foreign goods from coming ashore, I wonder what will happen when they have to pay the full price of American made goods. Either they will priced significantly higher than they are now, or the American worker is going to have to settle for a much smaller wage. Either way, Americans are going to end up with less in their wallets and shopping bags. And that, my friends, is the crux of the matter.
We are so used to luxuries that other world citizens can't even imagine that we don't know how to live within our means any longer. It has gotten visible worse just during my lifetime. When I was in high school, you had to have special permission to drive your car to school. Now every high school around me has built giant parking lots for students. "My child HAS to have a car, how else would they get to their jobs/games/fill-in-the-blank?" Well, somewhere south of their genitals (or gentiles, depending on where you learn English) they have legs. That method worked for us when we were growing up.
Speaking of English, I have little patience for those that complain that they don't want to press one to continue in English. Our artificial wealth bubble of the last two decades was built on the backs of the poor people of the world. We have taken their cheap labor and destroyed their environments, do we have to take their language away too? Not to mention when you see and hear what we have done to our language, it ain't 'zackly the Queenz English we be defending. Word.
Our path back to prosperity will not be easy. We need to use resources wisely, pay more for domestic goods and learn to live with less, strive to buy food grown locally (the amount of energy used to transport food back and forth across the country is staggering) and be responsible world citizens.
Unless we get back on track with the founding principles of this great land, the gap between haves and have-nots will widen and implode.
Hoping I still have some friends left,
John
