In light of yesterday's Arizona shooting tragedy, may we quietly say a prayer for our own freedoms, aspirations, and souls. May we give the harmed families the strength and will to survive and rekindle their lifes in some way.
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Pray for our souls and freedoms
- Thread starter nedrow1
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joninliverton
BSB Addict
Oh I missed this thread as I was expecting something on the other side - maybe Miss D will move it. Yes we got a newsflash at around 7pm uk time yesterday. Another sad and tragic event caused by people who should be shot at birth.
Bless their hearts I pray that the family's can let go of the insanity of this senseless act of violence and move on in time. May they be watched over protected and healed from this tragedy…
slimvintage
BSB Addict
Everyone but the sheriff is pussyfooting around the elephant in the room. I hope that, as you guys say, this was senseless. The suspicion is, of course, that it had a lot of psychiatric rhyme and reason, and a well thought out plan and outcome.
I've despised the Tea Party movement for it's bigoted jeering from the very start. And been aware, while watching the unspeakable mamma grizzly spew her tacky cant, that she could well be warping vulnerable psyches. It would be comforting to discover that after all this guy is just a nutter with a gun. But.
I'm sorry to say this, and a bit ashamed even to think it, but it's a fucking shame it wasn't another political figure in a red jacket that was shot in the head, instead of this one.
A lot of stuff has to change, in Arizona and the rest of the US, before anyone is really safe.
I've despised the Tea Party movement for it's bigoted jeering from the very start. And been aware, while watching the unspeakable mamma grizzly spew her tacky cant, that she could well be warping vulnerable psyches. It would be comforting to discover that after all this guy is just a nutter with a gun. But.
I'm sorry to say this, and a bit ashamed even to think it, but it's a fucking shame it wasn't another political figure in a red jacket that was shot in the head, instead of this one.
A lot of stuff has to change, in Arizona and the rest of the US, before anyone is really safe.
I agree with you on so many levels with this Slim. I haven't seen all of the details. I do know that from what I heard it appeared to be premeditated and planned as you said. Alot of things do need to change. Unfortunately, there are still a great many people out there that lack the communication skills to just ask for a glass of water so to speak. Unfortunately some people feel like the only way they will be heard is to do something off the wall like killing some one to gain attention. My prayers are with the family and for peace... Thanks Slim for summing that up so neatly.
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silvercamel
Well-known Member
When certain political figures depict their political enemies as "being in our cross hairs" (with pics to boot), then what can we expect? This wasn't a "tragedy", it was murder.
mikeyank
Long time forumite
Silvercamel and Slimvintage are speaking the truth regarding the root cause of this tragedy.
I, too, am very much in disagreement with the Palin-Tea Party movement - but, please, before we also become guilty of finger pointing and rabble rousing, let us at least allow some truths to come forth about this horribly misguided young man. His high school friends described him as left and liberal - his records are indicating the distinct possibility of paranoid schizophrenia (the onset of which commonly occurs as his age) - the contents of the tape which resulted in his expulsion from community college were frightening enough to involve his school, his family and the police. Yes, we live in a country rampant with hysteria brought on by political factionalism, and, yes, we have become so marginalized that such acts as this are the likely result. But let us be careful about placing blame until it is clear that the blame belongs. If we cry wolf every time and allow the opposition to prove innocence, eventually no one is going to listen when we cry wolf and the streets are filled with blood.
In what I've gleaned so far about this young man, I feel very uncomfortable raising the tea party target yet. Anyway, I think they may have raised it themselves. Maybe they'll shoot themselves in the foot (or mouth) - it couldn't be the brain or heart; there is no evidence of the presence of either.
In what I've gleaned so far about this young man, I feel very uncomfortable raising the tea party target yet. Anyway, I think they may have raised it themselves. Maybe they'll shoot themselves in the foot (or mouth) - it couldn't be the brain or heart; there is no evidence of the presence of either.
joninliverton
BSB Addict
There is no excuse for cold blooded murder, no matter what political, religious or whatever beliefs you have. The UK has had it's share in recent years; remember Derek Bird last summer, Thomas Hamilton in Scotland, Michael Ryan in the South. In hindsight all sorts came about the reasons for their actions but in all cases it appears to be a build up of personal pressures that they cannot cope with or can cope with for years then the fuse blow.
There are probably hundreds of thousands of people with problems that could manifest into such actions - it's just that most of us know how to deal with them. There is one common point though and that is the ease of access to weapons of which governments can do something about.
There are probably hundreds of thousands of people with problems that could manifest into such actions - it's just that most of us know how to deal with them. There is one common point though and that is the ease of access to weapons of which governments can do something about.
slimvintage
BSB Addict
The queasy, uncomfortable, shifty apologetics offered by retrograde post-pioneers for the right to tote a firearm on US streets is another clear reason why the country is fast becoming the next ex-superpower. The barbarity of America's gun laws beggars belief, along with its ranking in health care quality statistics and it's enthusiasm for sentencing people to die in ways no less unspeakable than those used by the Spanish Inquisition.
And all the politicians can think of to do is get up in front of the class, giggling like first graders on parents' day, showing they can all read. Pathetic assholes.
And all the politicians can think of to do is get up in front of the class, giggling like first graders on parents' day, showing they can all read. Pathetic assholes.
panzer104
Active Member
I love that when someone picks up a gun and guns people down the fingers and excuses start flying. It was his abusive upbringing, his parents didn't hug him enough, he listened to Slipknot, he got picked on, its the media...and the list goes on. I could really care less as to the reason behind it, a murderer is a murderer. I know the reality lies much more in the grey area but can we, as a nation, let all the other bullshit sit at least until the ones affected have some time to grieve. This murder, tragedy, what ever you want to call it is bad enough without all the he said/they said bs the media and news is spinning.
I mean to offend no one, but I feel like every time something like this happens its the same old scratch in the same old record that keeps playing and it gets tiring. Report the news...not spin. Its a damn moment of darkness, not a human interest piece, give it the respect it deserves.
Please note that this rant points its fingers at the media and not the members of this forum.
I mean to offend no one, but I feel like every time something like this happens its the same old scratch in the same old record that keeps playing and it gets tiring. Report the news...not spin. Its a damn moment of darkness, not a human interest piece, give it the respect it deserves.
Please note that this rant points its fingers at the media and not the members of this forum.
slimvintage
BSB Addict
Unfortunately in fame hungry America today part of the catharsis of grieving is having the murdered loved one's name and graduation photo shown on national TV for 36 hours and the media salivating over the tragedy and speculating on its causes.
cumrag27
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Part of the problem...
It is another dark moment in American history that people, with the most innocent of intentions, can be murdered or permanently injured execution style, and twenty families and all their friends are permanently scared for life dealing with this needless horrific loss of life or the needless injuries for the fortunate survivors.
Just think about the rebuilding efforts for the survivors, requiring inestimable amounts of personal sacrifice and both emotional and physical pain. It is simply too high a price to pay for the "freedoms" provided those that are emotionally unstable, that are medically unsupervised, walking the streets among us today.
America needs to now think, just as in 1963 with the assassination of JFK, if this is an acceptable risk to our fragile democracy having such unrestrained access to "killing hardwear" more suitable for wartime, than anything else.
We all need to pray for all of the victims of this senseless tragedy and ask ourself if we are part of the problem or part of the solution? Ask yourself how much more does it take, if we cannot protect an innocent 9 year old girl's life?
Respectfully,
Stimpy
It is another dark moment in American history that people, with the most innocent of intentions, can be murdered or permanently injured execution style, and twenty families and all their friends are permanently scared for life dealing with this needless horrific loss of life or the needless injuries for the fortunate survivors.
Just think about the rebuilding efforts for the survivors, requiring inestimable amounts of personal sacrifice and both emotional and physical pain. It is simply too high a price to pay for the "freedoms" provided those that are emotionally unstable, that are medically unsupervised, walking the streets among us today.
America needs to now think, just as in 1963 with the assassination of JFK, if this is an acceptable risk to our fragile democracy having such unrestrained access to "killing hardwear" more suitable for wartime, than anything else.
We all need to pray for all of the victims of this senseless tragedy and ask ourself if we are part of the problem or part of the solution? Ask yourself how much more does it take, if we cannot protect an innocent 9 year old girl's life?
Respectfully,
Stimpy
panzer104
Active Member
Slim and Stimpy,
I hear that but isn't that the problem? I mean if the mass media would just report the news and not add all the other extemporaneous nonsense that "sells" the story it would be one thing but instead the focus becomes the murderer. Why, well lets face it, he IS the story and that is the mess up part. Piss Poor Judgment on the media machine. I will take John Stewarts stance on Fox News and apply it to all media outlets, "as I like to call them, The Temple of Doom". In a weeks time I challenge any one to give me ten facts about any and all of the vicitms. Now give me ten about the gunman. Which ten did you finish first? In regards to the weapons, bans only affect people that live within the confines of the law. Criminals can get any weapon ever made with little effort. I think history can back that up.
My prayers are with the victims both for the horrible instance that has given them national attention and for any and all invasions that will be visited upon them by the press. I would hope the majority of people want to be part of the solution.
Panzer
I hear that but isn't that the problem? I mean if the mass media would just report the news and not add all the other extemporaneous nonsense that "sells" the story it would be one thing but instead the focus becomes the murderer. Why, well lets face it, he IS the story and that is the mess up part. Piss Poor Judgment on the media machine. I will take John Stewarts stance on Fox News and apply it to all media outlets, "as I like to call them, The Temple of Doom". In a weeks time I challenge any one to give me ten facts about any and all of the vicitms. Now give me ten about the gunman. Which ten did you finish first? In regards to the weapons, bans only affect people that live within the confines of the law. Criminals can get any weapon ever made with little effort. I think history can back that up.
My prayers are with the victims both for the horrible instance that has given them national attention and for any and all invasions that will be visited upon them by the press. I would hope the majority of people want to be part of the solution.
Panzer
cumrag27
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Lets not lose site of the victims and their families
Dearest Panzer,
Surely all such tragedies, whether it is Columbine, the Oklahoma City Bombing, 9/11 or whatever, there has been a constant drumbeat coming from the media. I have to agree with Panzer that, for the families of the victims, this obsession with constant and invasive media coverage unending has been the paradigm all news outlets have operated under with the 24 hour news cycle. Often times interrupting to providing little if any new information.
As a 15 year old when President Kennedy was gunned down in Dallas on Novemember 22, 1963, long before the advent of the 24 hour news cycle, there has been a "morbid fascination" with every little mypoic detail or speculation on how the occurance took place at the total disregard of the infringement made upon the lives of families now dealing with the grieving process. This is strictly determined by the news media capitalizing on their profit-making motives, not some altruistic and well meaning intent.
Not having much higher motivation than the gunman himself, the media sets about in a competitive mode to raise the stakes even further only for the media's perceived financial advancement and/or ratings advantages. Just think about the Terry Schiavo fiasco/media event at it's worst. They hyped up the already traumatic and sad event, stirring the pot even further without regard for the human and humane component in all of this. The same can be said for coverage of any terriorist event, only guaranteeing the outlawed organization exactly the kind of free worldwide coverage and publicity they aimed to produce and giving these wrong parties the satisfaction of an undeserved victory and fueling further wrongful actions.
I would like to reiterate Panzer's words in summation, "My prayers are with the victims both for the horrible instance that has given them national attention and for any and all invasions that will be visited upon them by the press. I would hope the majority of people want to be part of the solution." I would like to add further, this is a situation with a long-awaited overdue solution.
Sincerely,
Stimpy
Dearest Panzer,
Surely all such tragedies, whether it is Columbine, the Oklahoma City Bombing, 9/11 or whatever, there has been a constant drumbeat coming from the media. I have to agree with Panzer that, for the families of the victims, this obsession with constant and invasive media coverage unending has been the paradigm all news outlets have operated under with the 24 hour news cycle. Often times interrupting to providing little if any new information.
As a 15 year old when President Kennedy was gunned down in Dallas on Novemember 22, 1963, long before the advent of the 24 hour news cycle, there has been a "morbid fascination" with every little mypoic detail or speculation on how the occurance took place at the total disregard of the infringement made upon the lives of families now dealing with the grieving process. This is strictly determined by the news media capitalizing on their profit-making motives, not some altruistic and well meaning intent.
Not having much higher motivation than the gunman himself, the media sets about in a competitive mode to raise the stakes even further only for the media's perceived financial advancement and/or ratings advantages. Just think about the Terry Schiavo fiasco/media event at it's worst. They hyped up the already traumatic and sad event, stirring the pot even further without regard for the human and humane component in all of this. The same can be said for coverage of any terriorist event, only guaranteeing the outlawed organization exactly the kind of free worldwide coverage and publicity they aimed to produce and giving these wrong parties the satisfaction of an undeserved victory and fueling further wrongful actions.
I would like to reiterate Panzer's words in summation, "My prayers are with the victims both for the horrible instance that has given them national attention and for any and all invasions that will be visited upon them by the press. I would hope the majority of people want to be part of the solution." I would like to add further, this is a situation with a long-awaited overdue solution.
Sincerely,
Stimpy
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slimvintage
BSB Addict
The criminals who get weapons through underworld contacts certainly have no difficulty in obtaining them no matter how strict the law. But people like this damaged youth wouldn't know how to do that, nor would he feel it was necessary. He doesn't think of himself as a criminal but rather as a vigilante, someone who would righteously walk into a gun shop and walk out with a means to right a wrong. Just another Saturday shopper in the mall. That's what has to stop.
slimvintage
BSB Addict
This comes from a lefty website that sends me their info every week or so. If anyone would like to sign, go to the link.
cumrag27
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Thanks for the information
Dear Slim,
I just wanted to thank you for sharing this site. I just signed in and I wanted to share my brief comment with the forum that I submitted along with my signature to MoveOn.com:
"Lets Let us bring the hate-filled rhetoric to a halt. As any resulting loss of life or personal injury, is totally unacceptable and “hate-mongers”, in the form of media personalities and partisan commentators, need to be considered, in subsequent displays of “extreme violence”, as co-conspirators in “hate crimes” with possibilities for prosecution in the courts and having shared responsibilities for preserving public safety."
Sincerely,
Stimpy
Dear Slim,
I just wanted to thank you for sharing this site. I just signed in and I wanted to share my brief comment with the forum that I submitted along with my signature to MoveOn.com:
"Lets Let us bring the hate-filled rhetoric to a halt. As any resulting loss of life or personal injury, is totally unacceptable and “hate-mongers”, in the form of media personalities and partisan commentators, need to be considered, in subsequent displays of “extreme violence”, as co-conspirators in “hate crimes” with possibilities for prosecution in the courts and having shared responsibilities for preserving public safety."
Sincerely,
Stimpy
I'd like to add one thought to media's responsiblity and that is what about the organizations that have made it impossible to administrate a person who is out of his wits, has a reocurring record in school, in society of being anti-social, in need of confinement for psychological review and help, to get him off the streets . .. like that young male teacher in California who murdered somebody, it took them five years to fire. We have a whole potful of ner-do-wells walking around us whom nobody can touch . . . . The kid who did the Arizona shooting was a walking-bill-board with ten years of reports from teachers, fellow-classmates, The Army, et al of basic distrust of safety in his presence . . . who are the organizations that have tied us up and let the delusioned tread over us and into our centers of society and family . . ..
cumrag27
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masterful self-promoters that makes Madonna pale in comparison
Dear nedrow1,
Right you are, but there is this little thing the legal profession likes to call to our attention, namely "Due Process". It sometimes works in the favor of individuals and society at large, and at other times, we become the victims of "so called due process".
We can thank the legal profession for continually writing themselves into more laws and more scenarios that require their involvement, regardless of the benefit to individuals or society at large. They have been masterful self-promoters that makes Madonna pale in comparison.
I can't wait for their next video! LOL
Dear nedrow1,
Right you are, but there is this little thing the legal profession likes to call to our attention, namely "Due Process". It sometimes works in the favor of individuals and society at large, and at other times, we become the victims of "so called due process".
We can thank the legal profession for continually writing themselves into more laws and more scenarios that require their involvement, regardless of the benefit to individuals or society at large. They have been masterful self-promoters that makes Madonna pale in comparison.
I can't wait for their next video! LOL
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