Our Country is dying FAST!

[grace17]

So no more venting or writing from me.

Please don't stop posting comments Rick. Typing faster than out brain is thinking is something most of us have done at one time or another, and that's because we're all human.

I read every word of this thread and learned a lot of interesting things, and it would be the forum's loss if you choose silence over words...

 

[Huh?]

Guys, give Rick a break. He's a young dude who is expressing his opinion. Just because he hasn't your experience or knowledge doesn't mean he's a dumbass. Chastising a young guy like you guys have done, for expressing his opinion will only stop others from posting in the future. You should all be ashamed of yourself. Ambi and Mike - I'm really surprised at you, not surprised at Huh though, mainly because he only comes on here to criticise others.

I'm very sorry, Jon, if you take offense to my comments on this topic, but I stand by those comments 100%. Everyone has the right to express an opinion, just as Mike stated. HOWEVER, and this is where people seem to always drop the ball, any time you exercise a right, you have a concommitant RESPONSIBILITY. Rights and responsibilities go hand-in-hand. In the case of freedom of speech, you have the responsibility to be truthful and accurate, to not spread lies, to not engage in wild exaggeration, to not create dangerous situations, etc. Unfortunately, there really are no "police" to make sure you are responsible with such a right. However, if you don't mind those responsibilities, others have the right, if not the DUTY, to call you on it...that is the only check we have in this situation. A person with any ounce of conscience will step back and reflect on the error of their exercise of a right when it is made clear they've done so irresponsibly. I am particularly sensitive to the issue Rick raised here because I'm well beyond sick of hearing people equate President Obama to Adolf Hitler. This is not the first time it has happened. It is such a ridiculous idea that it should immediately be called out as such every time it happens, because it really undermines the gravity and enormity of what happened during WWII. It isn't right, and if you don't understand this, then the shame you say others should have really belongs on you. Being "young" is no excuse for such erroneous comments...the atrocities of WWII are standard lessons learned in history classes across the country if not the world, and I would not be surprised if we don't fully appreciate just how horrible things were. Nobody old enough to be posting to a SEX SITE has escaped hearing SOMETHING about Nazi Germany. They may have escaped actually internalizing the message (their own fault), but they were most certainly exposed to the message. So I don't accept your "youth" argument at all.

Whether or not you believe I come here only to criticize is rather immaterial to anything said here. It's a lie that can easily be shown to be a lie. But that is YOUR problem, Jon, which is obviously affecting YOUR ability to reason. I challenge you to go find a Holocaust survivor and ask them if they think what is going on in this country resembles what happened in Nazi Germany. Find me just one who believes that is the case.

President Obama is dealing with many issues which have been INHERITED from previous administrations. I've seen many Presidents come and go, but this one by far has been beat up the worst by so many people (many of whom claim to have wholeheartedly supported him) over things that were put in place by OTHER presidents. It's nuts. Do people honestly believe that it was his job to come into office and COMPLETELY DISMANTLE EVERYTHING the previous administrations had put in place? Do you honestly believe he would have gotten widespread support for such actions? People were still trying to claim he was illegitimately elected because he wasn't actually a US citizen when the SECOND election rolled around! And is it remotely possible, as Ambivalent stated, that once he got into office he was made privvy to information which made him decide certain things needed to stay in place?

The hyperbole needs to stop. If you want your opinion on such matters taken seriously, you have to engage in rational discussion.

 

[joninliverton]

Please don't stop posting comments Rick. Typing faster than out brain is thinking is something most of us have done at one time or another, and that's because we're all human.

I read every word of this thread and learned a lot of interesting things, and it would be the forum's loss if you choose silence over words...

Indeed Grace, but that's what happens when young guys are bullied for making, what Ricky has stated, was a remark he now regrets. And for the record, I did not agree with Rick's comments about Nazis, I just think the likes of Ambi, Mike and Huh? went a lot over the top in their replies. Now a loveable member has been silenced.

 

[tim114114]

Huh, nice post. i think we are being fed a lot of bullshit, from both sides of the political spectrum. And, yes, there is hyperbole from both sides that is bull shit. I continue to think that our elected officials are not working for us. The financial problems of 2008 were a warning, but nobody seemed to care. I think we will have a bigger problem, and then we will all wake up to the much bigger problem.

 

[tim114114]

These two books relate the financial meltdown of 2008:

"Bull by the Horns," by Sheila Bair. Ms. Bair was the former Chairman of the FDIC during the crisis.

"After the Music Stopped," by Alan Blinder. Mr. Blinder served in the Clinton administration.

Finished the first one and working on the second one. This is just the latest of many. I find that if one is trying to understand a complex problem, reading a number of books on the topic is about the only way to do it.

 

[tim114114]

Of course, I have other interests. Check out the thread "Butt is not just a conjuction."

 

[JLipps4u]

Hey All

I do sincerely apologize for the Nazi Germany reference. That was over the top and when I wrote it I was not even thinking of the killing they did. I was fixated on them collecting data on their own people to see if they were of a certain religion or if they were against the movement.
I would never suggest that all of the senseless killing done in Germany, Poland and other places under Hitler is remotely similar to what is going on here. Also I am not just picking on Obama. As I said Bush did things that upset me too. Personally I think all of Washington should be broomed!

And Jon, thanks for standing up for me. I "am" a young guy but I have accomplished more at 25 then most will do in a lifetime. So I should and DO know better. My comparison was wrong and I should not have used it. My sincere apologizes to those I offended. One should never rant when super tired at 3am after a really hard day. So no more venting or writing from me.
Sincerely
Rick Bell

Rick, we all have writers remorse at one time or another. I think most of us understand this and accept it. Please do not stop writing because you made one mistake. I am sooooooooo proud of you! You are young and yet so wise! And most important, you are paying attention. You and others like you are what give me hope. I know it is sad that we have so much corruption going on. But don't leave us! Stay, continue to pay attention, spread the word, get involved. Don't you see, it is people like you who make a difference! Your family has fought for our freedom, now it is your turn to fight for our freedom, but your fight must be with the pen, not with the sword! But your fight is just as real, and just as important. It is up to you, to make this country a better place!

Look at Mexico. Mexico is an incredibly beautiful country with an incredible amount of wealth. Corruption has always been a way of life there. For DECADES now, people who get tired of the injustice and the corruption, just left. They are all in Florida, Texas, California. And much of what is left is not worth is simply poverty and bad people. It pisses me off! Why the hell don't these Mexicans stay and fight for their country?? What could have been Mexico's fate, if decades ago, people started fighting for their country and took it back from corrupt individuals? Mexico could be such a strong and vital country. But I fear that it would take God coming down from heaven to smite evil, for Mexico to change!

I have travelled to many countries and always observed the locals and thought what life would be like there. In the end, it is always the same, I could never live any place but the USA, for all its problems and its faults.
There is an old saying, "the grass is greener on the other side of the hill." But, in my years I have come to realize that in reality, "the grass is greener where you water it."

 

[rrhill]

 

[bobbity]

Wow, America. It's times like these that I wish I was Canadian...

OMG, rrhill. That's hilarious. I can honestly say I have committed a crime now. Number 1, to be exact. Oops. Someone call the po-po. LOL.
Also, what's Virginia's beef with lights? Is it an energy conserving effort? A modesty issue? I'm confused.
And, to the legislators in Oregon, dirty talk is half the fun and I'm sure more than half the judges/laywers/law-makers have broken this law, so I'm demanding a veto.
Also, remind me not to book a hotel room in Washington D.C. Wouldn't want to get arrested for daring to sit on a cock. Bleh.
Number 6 is so ridiculous, I can't even come up with a clever quip. I mean, who does that? Who shoots off a gun as your partner has an orgasm? Wtf? Wisconsin, as a former resident of your state, I demand an explanation.
Florida, I know you're ass backwards. I mean, I get it. But really, a porcupine? Who was the dumb-f*** that decided, "Hey, I'm going to have sex with a porcupine today", managed to get caught, thus leading the courts to decide they had to create a law banning sex with porcupines. I just...I have no words.
And number 10 is so ass-backwards, I'm not even going to comment on it. Just NO.

 

[tampa24]

I'm dumbfounded. If this is what the government wants to do...and is doing, then this should be decided by the voters. Not policy makers. They are trying to portray him as a criminal . I don't buy it. If this is a democracy, then this a conversation worthy of the country having. The constitutionality issue alone of all of this begs to be brought before the courts. How is this not unlawful search and seizure (daily personal correspondence, emails, texts, voicemails, etc.) without probable cause? I also don't buy the argument from a personal freedom's standpoint, that as long as we are law abiding that we have nothing to fear. I am law abiding and this does still scare me.

 

[rrhill]

In 2011 there were 32,367 traffic fatalities in the US. Firearm deaths: 31,670... and the US Congress fails to take action.

U.S. citizens worldwide killed in 2011 as a result of incidents of terrorism: 17
Source: http://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2011/195556.htm

And the US government justifies spying on their citizens because of terrorism? They already have their Patriot act to do so. Now they took it a step further... collecting data on a massive scale, storing it, and all in secret. How is this possible under the US constitution?

 

[rrhill]

 

[rrhill]

 

[JLipps4u]

Too funny! thanks

 

[Ambivalent]

Hey All

I do sincerely apologize for the Nazi Germany reference. That was over the top and when I wrote it I was not even thinking of the killing they did. I was fixated on them collecting data on their own people to see if they were of a certain religion or if they were against the movement.
I would never suggest that all of the senseless killing done in Germany, Poland and other places under Hitler is remotely similar to what is going on here. Also I am not just picking on Obama. As I said Bush did things that upset me too. Personally I think all of Washington should be broomed!

And Jon, thanks for standing up for me. I "am" a young guy but I have accomplished more at 25 then most will do in a lifetime. So I should and DO know better. My comparison was wrong and I should not have used it. My sincere apologizes to those I offended. One should never rant when super tired at 3am after a really hard day. So no more venting or writing from me.
Sincerely
Rick Bell

************************************************

Hi, Rick ~

I should like to thank you for your gracious words, regarding this subject. Your apology (sincerely) is accepted - not that you need MY licence, to say ANYTHING. It would and WILL be a pleasure to hear your thoughts and concerns about politics, and other matters, in the future: and I hope and trust that you will muster up your courage, and write them!

I am likewise glad that Jon "stuck up for you", as he did - Jon is very good, that way! And though he and I frequently disagree, on various substantive matters, I can attest that he is a very good person. HOWEVER, I do not agree with Jon (who is sometimes a little outspoken, himself ;-) that I (or others) should have just "kept quiet", on the matter in dispute, just for the sake of comfort or politesse, Rick. I said nothing to you (neither more nor less) than I would have, had I been your gentle, *twinkly* old political science tutor (a function which I performed, for some years). What you should know, though, is that a harsh critique from me, with respect to a political viewpoint, does not equal EITHER disrespect, or dislike.

So please, Rick, continue to post on matters that interest and concern you. I cannot guarantee that I will always AGREE with you, but I do have friends, colleagues, and former students right across the political spectrum: conservatives, liberals (both classical and 'reform' liberals), socialists, and libertarians. We are all friends; and I see no reason that you and I oughtn't be friends, also. So, please go ahead, and write or vent, just as seems right, to you.

If you are as brave, and INTELLIGENT, as you seem, you surely ought to do so. No opinion exists in a vacuum, and, when writing upon highly controversial subjects, one can never expect to be immune from critique. But, if you have things to say, please do not cease from saying them, simply because a single post went awry.

Sincerely,
"A" XOXOXOXOXOXOXO

 

[joninliverton]

************************************************

Hi, Rick ~

I should like to thank you for your gracious words, regarding this subject. Your apology (sincerely) is accepted - not that you need MY licence, to say ANYTHING. It would and WILL be a pleasure to hear your thoughts and concerns about politics, and other matters, in the future: and I hope and trust that you will muster up your courage, and write them!

I am likewise glad that Jon "stuck up for you", as he did - Jon is very good, that way! And though he and I frequently disagree, on various substantive matters, I can attest that he is a very good person. HOWEVER, I do not agree with Jon (who is sometimes a little outspoken, himself ;-) that I (or others) should have just "kept quiet", on the matter in dispute, just for the sake of comfort or politesse, Rick. I said nothing to you (neither more nor less) than I would have, had I been your gentle, *twinkly* old political science tutor (a function which I performed, for some years). What you should know, though, is that a harsh critique from me, with respect to a political viewpoint, does not equal EITHER disrespect, or dislike.

So please, Rick, continue to post on matters that interest and concern you. I cannot guarantee that I will always AGREE with you, but I do have friends, colleagues, and former students right across the political spectrum: conservatives, liberals (both classical and 'reform' liberals), socialists, and libertarians. We are all friends; and I see no reason that you and I oughtn't be friends, also. So, please go ahead, and write or vent, just as seems right, to you.

If you are as brave, and INTELLIGENT, as you seem, you surely ought to do so. No opinion exists in a vacuum, and, when writing upon highly controversial subjects, one can never expect to be immune from critique. But, if you have things to say, please do not cease from saying them, simply because a single post went awry.

Sincerely,
"A" XOXOXOXOXOXOXO

LOL thanks for the "kind words" and yes Rick and I are already "off site" buddies so he knows I'm a good person - blush. Rick is also a fantastic guy who I enjoy communicating with.

 

[rrhill]

GCHQ taps fibre-optic cables for secret access to world's communications

Exclusive: British spy agency collects and stores vast quantities of global email messages, Facebook posts, internet histories and calls, and shares them with NSA, latest documents from Edward Snowden reveal.

Britain's spy agency GCHQ has secretly gained access to the network of cables which carry the world's phone calls and internet traffic and has started to process vast streams of sensitive personal information which it is sharing with its American partner, the National Security Agency (NSA).

The sheer scale of the agency's ambition is reflected in the titles of its two principal components: Mastering the Internet and Global Telecoms Exploitation, aimed at scooping up as much online and telephone traffic as possible. This is all being carried out without any form of public acknowledgement or debate.
One key innovation has been GCHQ's ability to tap into and store huge volumes of data drawn from fibre-optic cables for up to 30 days so that it can be sifted and analysed. That operation, codenamed Tempora, has been running for some 18 months.
read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/21/gchq-cables-secret-world-communications-nsa?CMP=twt_gu

 

[joninliverton]

GCHQ taps fibre-optic cables for secret access to world's communications

Exclusive: British spy agency collects and stores vast quantities of global email messages, Facebook posts, internet histories and calls, and shares them with NSA, latest documents from Edward Snowden reveal.

Britain's spy agency GCHQ has secretly gained access to the network of cables which carry the world's phone calls and internet traffic and has started to process vast streams of sensitive personal information which it is sharing with its American partner, the National Security Agency (NSA).

The sheer scale of the agency's ambition is reflected in the titles of its two principal components: Mastering the Internet and Global Telecoms Exploitation, aimed at scooping up as much online and telephone traffic as possible. This is all being carried out without any form of public acknowledgement or debate.
One key innovation has been GCHQ's ability to tap into and store huge volumes of data drawn from fibre-optic cables for up to 30 days so that it can be sifted and analysed. That operation, codenamed Tempora, has been running for some 18 months.
read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/21/gchq-cables-secret-world-communications-nsa?CMP=twt_gu

People have known that for years Robert but to gain information about terrorists you have to adopt to the similar clandestine activities as the terrorists themselves. Countries should not disclose the methods they use to gain intelligence otherwise their targets will change to other methods and then we've lost the initiative. It is thought that many terrorist plots have been foiled due to the information gained by GCHQ and NSA, to whom we should be thankful.

Regarding the do gooders and the Human Rights people. If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear.

 

[rrhill]

"People have known that for years"

Really Jon?

Till now the UK denied spying!
read: http://www.humanipo.com/news/6507/UK-government-denies-spying-claims

also in the news today...

German minister seeks answers from UK over spying 'catastrophe'

Britain's European partners will seek urgent clarification from London about whether a British spy agency has tapped international telephone and Internet traffic on a massive scale, Germany's justice minister said on Saturday.

Sabine Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger said a report in Britain's Guardian newspaper read like the plot of a horror film and, if confirmed as true, would be a "catastrophe".
read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/22/us-usa-security-britain-germany-idUSBRE95L09E20130622

 

[tampa24]

Regarding the do gooders and the Human Rights people. If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to fear.

I don't agree with that Jon. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Total access to all personal information of every citizen will only create a slippery slope to widespread abuse of such access. Totalitarian countries have had and do have government informers and "minders" in workplaces, in apartment buildings, as well as shops and stores. They use this info to deny or grant people jobs, promotions and so on.

I'm all for stopping and preventing terrorism. If they really did all this only to be used for that sole purpose, I'd be okay with it. But... How many of us believe that over coming decades that the access to all that personal information will only be used by the government within the narrow scope of keeping the country safe from terrorism? After going through great time and much expense to collect all this info...the natural inclination by bureaucrats is to try to keep finding more uses for it, beyond the original parameters, in order to justify the expense. How many of us will like those other ideas they might come up with in secret?