By Request: Discussion of the new Arizona Senate Bill Regarding Immigration Docs

[dgraves13069]

This is a fascinating but also somewhat worrying thread. I am learning a lot about the USA that I knew nothing about - the bit about the farmers and homeowners near the border being terrorised is very worrying.

As the thread is about Arizona then maybe there should be more policing on both sides of the border to combat such criminalism. On a national front, one cannot enclose ones country however big or small it is. Look at the countries who have built walls but people have still gotten through.

Someone earlier on correctly pointed out that most of the USA citizens today could be classed as "foreigners" (I wont use immigrants) and go back 200 years and imagine what the native Americans thought of the whities coming over and stealing their land. History has a habit of coming back and biting you on the butt.

The UK also has a big immigration problem but not on the scale of the USA, mainly because of it's geography and it being an island. Most of our immigration issues are down to the EU and the british government not having the backbone to say NO.

Until recently our immigration "problem" has stemmed from our citizens (and therefore our government, as it's supposed to work) knowing that the mojority of our forefathers came from foreign soil, and in the spirit of our country's past embracing those people who come to our country looking for a better life....even if it isn't exactly legal. (or realistically, embracing them because it's cheaper than hiring a naturalized citizen for their yard work). I can't say I blame state or federal governments for being paranoid. On the federal government's part, this is long overdue. As for state government, if any of the border states have problems defending their borders, there is always the state militia (national guard).

This may seem like a heartless way to approach the issue, but you have to remember that you're basically asking citizens to defend their own land. Hopefully (and yes, I do still have some faith in humanity), Farmer John will have a good enough heart to ask questions before he starts shooting. If he doesn't, then we are damned anyway. The only other way to police our borders is to hire half the country on as border patrol agents and I doubt we can afford that unless we convert to communism.

 

[mikeyank]

Someone earlier on correctly pointed out that most of the USA citizens today could be classed as "foreigners" (I wont use immigrants) and go back 200 years and imagine what the native Americans thought of the whities coming over and stealing their land. History has a habit of coming back and biting you on the butt.

Excellent point, Jon. The History Channel is currently running a series called "The History of the U.S.", and our nation was formed by illegal immigrants here too. And if you think about it, 200 years is a relatively short period of time. It's amazing how many folks see reality in terms of their own needs.

 

[tampa24]

Failing to secure the border only moves us closer to some form of a North American Union with no borders and no national sovereignty. Many of those protesting SB1070 have called for just that.
Maybe it is too late to save America. Maybe we are not worthy of freedom anymore. But as an elected official, I must try to do what I can to protect our Constitutional Republic.

I agree with her on how horrible it is that the drug gangs have free reign to terrorize landowners and others along the border. I agree that something needs to be done about it. I just don't see that this bill is going to hinder much of the worst abuses and criminal activity by those who cross over illegally. It may put a tiny dent in the operations of the narco traficantes. But it definitely won't stop them. The majority of the people this bill will intimidate will be the illegals AND the legals who fear being out in public without the right paperwork.

I feel sorry for the law abiding latino American citizens who will be seeing a police officer (Paid for by their tax dollars) not as someone who is there to protect them, but as someone who is there to oppress them. Living in fear that if their purse or wallet gets stolen, or they don't have ID on them...and God forbid, there's an altercation with law enforcement...that they can be thrown in jail for deportation before getting their legitimate American citizenship status sorted out. It's not supposed to be that way in the Land of the Free.

This last passage though from the senator was little more than propaganda aimed at sowing division. If you disagree with the bill, or the fact that she signed it, then you must be unpatriotic. I am not a traitor or someone who wishes to see American sovereignty diluted or eliminated altogether. Simply because I have strong misgivings about this bill. I'm very patriotic, thank you.

In fairness to the senator though, I can understand her level of frustration with the current border security apparatus as it is right now. I just wish she hadn't added the final passage indicating that she had moral superiority over those who disagreed with the bill.

On a final note I have to point out what many others already have in the past. That there wouldn't be all these drug gangs terrorizing, torturing, maiming and killing people left and right...if there wasn't a huge market here in the U.S. for the expensive illegal drugs that they are selling. Expensive in every sense of the word.

 

[tucsonjayce]

Yes, the Federal government has failed to stem the tide of border crossings. However there have been some 6000+ College Boy Physicals officers added to our sector in the past couple of years. And yes, the State has deployed National Guard units to help ICE and College Boy Physicals. They help with the construction of the fence and take on supportive roles so that College Boy Physicals officers can be utilized elsewhere. Militarizing the borders is not an acceptable answer. My brother is a Colonel in the Army and is a liaison between his Army Group and Canada and Mexico. Our military is involved with limitations (posse commitatus).

Elected officials are sworn to uphold and defend the constitution. Maybe we need a balance between "uphold" and "defend".

And as to a Union of the North American countries, maybe we should have kept Mexico in 1848. And Canada would have been ours in the Revolution except for one day (timing of battles). Most people I know wouldn't blink an eyelash if Canada were to join the union, many Canadians are more "american" than we are. It's only when we look south that people get bent out of shape. Hmmmm...... why is that?

That state Senator is from Snowflake. Well there are more kinds of flakes there than just snow!

And someone said we need to round up all the "illegal" aliens and deport them. Are we willing to have our taxes increased to pay for the cost of finding, processing and deporting 10 million people? That's a yes or no question. The Senator from Snowflake would most assuredly say No.

Enough of my ranting for now.

 

[mikeyank]

Most people I know wouldn't blink an eyelash if Canada were to join the union, many Canadians are more "american" than we are. It's only when we look south that people get bent out of shape. Hmmmm...... why is that?

Excellent point Jayce!!! I hadn't even thought of that. Hmmmmm........What is the difference?????

 

[tucsonjayce]

Excellent point Jayce!!! I hadn't even thought of that. Hmmmmm........What is the difference?????

Circumcision? well maybe not....... Language? But then there are those francophones up there, eh? Religion? Can Catholicism be the problem? Nahhhh, not unless they're molesting kids.

Mike, what do you think the difference is? I'm at a loss.

 

[tampa24]

I just wanted to say that although I do have alot of reservations with this bill, I do understand the frustrations that led to its inception. Mainly wanting to crack down on the worst abuses of the drug runners. The federal government needs to do more. The border patrol needs to be able to do more. Local police should be empowered to be able to do more. The fact that this bill has everyone talking about border security is a good thing. It needs to be discussed.

 

[joninliverton]

I have visited a few internet sites since I first posted and I think it is a very brave and courageous decision for the lady to make. Apparently Obama doesn't agree but it's tough - I'm sure the governor of Az probably doesn't agree with all of his decisions.

 

[LoganBroad]

I absolutely agree with the AZ law 100%. All they are doing is saying that they are going to enforce laws that have been on the books for decades. Laws have to be enforced. If you are an illegal alien you have to leave, it is that simple, you cannot be here without our government's official permission, i.e. a visa. President Eisenhower had 1.5 million illegal mexicans deported back in the 1950's. It can be done.

 

[angelone]

When the French illegally occupied Mexico, the Mexicans revolted and kicked them out and today we celebrate Cinco de Mayo. Well, 11 million persons are illegally occupying the good old USA, isn't it time we American citizens revolt and kick out these people like the Mexicans did the French. We should call this day, Spine Day, because it is the day all Americans found their spine stood up straight and took control of their country from the illegals. Arizona has sounded the first shot of the revolution.