2 Celebrity Deaths

[baal]

I was not a big fan of Michael Jackson, and he certainly behaved oddly to say the least, but I think that your words and accusations are overly harsh, as he was never convicted of molestation, although there was certainly plenty of evidence to lead one to believe that he may have committed those crimes. But a person is still presumed innocent, until proven guilty, and I have to give the man the benefit of doubt, even in his passing.

The court system has to be fair and impartial. We don't. Tell me you'd have left a ten year old male relative alone with him for any period of time.

 

[Kodieboy]

Not a chance in hell....... would never have risked it

 

[Jayman01]

With all of the other celebrities that died it feels odd to only comment this extensively on just Michael Jackson at this time. I feel it will be inevitable that I express my feelings regarding him. My feelings fall somewhere in between Mikeyank and Pervert though.

First and foremost I pretty much have a zero tolerance for pedophiles. I really saw Michael as an unfortunate victim of circumstance who really needed some counseling to overcome his inner feelings loss and despair. Michael was deprived of a childhood to just be a normal little boy. He did not come from money. His fame came at a price. Everything that he and his family became they worked their asses off for. Michael grew up relatively poor. Most of the kids shared the same bed, same bedroom, shared toys, they wore each others clothes, etc. Some of his adult behaviors regardless of how odd they were came from his humble beginnings and I do not believe that he really knew some of the things he was doing were morally wrong.

Michael and his brothers and sisters were forced to give up hanging out with kids their own age to drive them to fame and fortune. They were even beaten and verbally abused to be driven to perfection. Michael belonged to a unique group of famous celebrities. They were all stars as children and when they pursued their childhood; the industry kicked them to the curb. Michael was close with actors like Danny Bonaducci, Corey Haim, Corey Feldman, and MaCully Culkin. They all spent time with him at his Neverland ranch. I really feel it was a form of therapy for them to hangout together.

I am really not certain I would ever refer to Michael as a pedophile. A pedophile deliberately prays on the innocence of children and deliberately takes advantage of them. Do I believe that some things may have occurred? "yes, I do." However; I believe that Michael was mentally ill. And that his celebrity status afforded him the privilege of avoiding mental health help. Think of Betty Davis in the Movie "What ever happened to Baby Jane." Maybe I come across as being naieve. I believe that many of the incidence that occurred were not planned and just happened kind of like how many guys explore their sexuality through discovery as friends joking and playing around. Michael may have started to become too comfortable with exploring these innocent events with the some of these kids. He was too old to be seen or thought of as the kids older buddy. I.e. the old one or two year difference thing (10-12yrs old). However; I am fairly certain Michael never understood how that was wrong...

I do believe that Michael genuinely loved children and never would have deliberately done anything to harm any child in his care or custody. Michael had an ability to view their genius and innocence like nobody else could. I also believe that Michael was perhaps one of the greatest advocates of child rights that ever lived because he always had a strong connection with children. It was Michael's insight with children the drove his musical genius. He was always looking at his music from prospective of magic and enchantment.

In conclusion, Michael was perhaps the greatest musical genius of our time. However, his creative genius contributed to his ill state of mental health. I do not believe Michael was a pedophile in that sense of the word. I do believe that he suffered mental illness that could drive him to engage in sexual relations with children. Kind of like he is 50 years old but still sees himself as a 12 year old. I would never have left a child in his care unsupervised for any length of time. As much as I believe that Michael cared for children; I do not believe with a reasonable degree of certainty that Michaels mental issues would have ever afforded him the ability to distinguish himself as a responsible adult. I often worried about the children that he adopted how Michaels psychosis would affect those kids.


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As for Fara, I was delighted to hear that she and Lee Majors made their peace before she passed.

Ed McMan, I think everyone loved the man who was going to make them rich. He was tremendous at helping Johny Carson become the legend he is today. He will truly be missed.

As for Billy Mays; wow, I never saw a pitch man with his kind of energy before. Well there was always Gallagher. LOL Billy had the secret formula. Billy could sell two crucifixes to Satan on Sunday at retail.

Carl Malden, It just goes to show that talent can go a long way in Hollywood...

 

[parisnoyd]

With all of the other celebrities that died it feels odd to only comment this extensively on just Michael Jackson at this time. I feel it will be inevitable that I express my feelings regarding him. My feelings fall somewhere in between Mikeyank and Pervert though.

First and foremost I pretty much have a zero tolerance for pedophiles. I really saw Michael as an unfortunate victim of circumstance who really needed some counseling to overcome his inner feelings loss and despair. Michael was deprived of a childhood to just be a normal little boy. He did not come from money. His fame came at a price. Everything that he and his family became they worked their asses off for. Michael grew up relatively poor. Most of the kids shared the same bed, same bedroom, shared toys, they wore each others clothes, etc. Some of his adult behaviors regardless of how odd they were came from his humble beginnings and I do not believe that he really knew some of the things he was doing were morally wrong.

Michael and his brothers and sisters were forced to give up hanging out with kids their own age to drive them to fame and fortune. They were even beaten and verbally abused to be driven to perfection. Michael belonged to a unique group of famous celebrities. They were all stars as children and when they pursued their childhood; the industry kicked them to the curb. Michael was close with actors like Danny Bonaducci, Corey Haim, Corey Feldman, and MaCully Culkin. They all spent time with him at his Neverland ranch. I really feel it was a form of therapy for them to hangout together.

I am really not certain I would ever refer to Michael as a pedophile. A pedophile deliberately prays on the innocence of children and deliberately takes advantage of them. Do I believe that some things may have occurred? "yes, I do." However; I believe that Michael was mentally ill. And that his celebrity status afforded him the privilege of avoiding mental health help. Think of Betty Davis in the Movie "What ever happened to Baby Jane." Maybe I come across as being naieve. I believe that many of the incidence that occurred were not planned and just happened kind of like how many guys explore their sexuality through discovery as friends joking and playing around. Michael may have started to become too comfortable with exploring these innocent events with the some of these kids. He was too old to be seen or thought of as the kids older buddy. I.e. the old one or two year difference thing (10-12yrs old). However; I am fairly certain Michael never understood how that was wrong...

I do believe that Michael genuinely loved children and never would have deliberately done anything to harm any child in his care or custody. Michael had an ability to view their genius and innocence like nobody else could. I also believe that Michael was perhaps one of the greatest advocates of child rights that ever lived because he always had a strong connection with children. It was Michael's insight with children the drove his musical genius. He was always looking at his music from prospective of magic and enchantment.

In conclusion, Michael was perhaps the greatest musical genius of our time. However, his creative genius contributed to his ill state of mental health. I do not believe Michael was a pedophile in that sense of the word. I do believe that he suffered mental illness that could drive him to engage in sexual relations with children. Kind of like he is 50 years old but still sees himself as a 12 year old. I would never have left a child in his care unsupervised for any length of time. As much as I believe that Michael cared for children; I do not believe with a reasonable degree of certainty that Michaels mental issues would have ever afforded him the ability to distinguish himself as a responsible adult. I often worried about the children that he adopted how Michaels psychosis would affect those kids.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for Fara, I was delighted to hear that she and Lee Majors made their peace before she passed.

Ed McMan, I think everyone loved the man who was going to make them rich. He was tremendous at helping Johny Carson become the legend he is today. He will truly be missed.

As for Billy Mays; wow, I never saw a pitch man with his kind of energy before. Well there was always Gallagher. LOL Billy had the secret formula. Billy could sell two crucifixes to Satan on Sunday at retail.

Carl Malden, It just goes to show that talent can go a long way in Hollywood...

Jayman, you know my experience with pedophilia. I need not elaborate. "Oh, but he is so good with the boys." Heard that, too. It doesn't matter to me that MJ was nuts. Men need to keep their hands off kid's nuts. Period. The fact he was rich and famous, allowed the parents to think it was cool for their little boys to spend time alone with him. How opportune for a pedophile. He knew. No one is THAT sheltered.

I chose not to mention this in my original post regarding his death. He was a fantastic performer. No doubt. He was also drug addled and a perv toward children. Evil combo.

He did not adopt his children. They were his. Turkey baster, or science, they were his. That alarmed me when I first heard about it.

On a lighter note, all the other celebs that passed, had many positives that they gave to the world. I never bought anything Billy was selling, but I was certainly tempted! He was good!

 

[Kodieboy]

Paris,i know where your coming from ... And i agree.. no one with a brain would leave a child with anyone that was even slightly thought of as a pedophile. And with everything Parents did over and over again..... and they did it for one reason only MONEY. the parents should have been charged for abuseive neglect .... not get payouts

I still like to think Micheal didnt do it , but have to admit im prob 99% wrong.. but i still would not have left a child with him.... if id known him in person and if id had 99% faith in him .. its that 1% doult that would have kept any child i knew way out of his reach.

I am very suspicious of anyone that likes to spend a lot of time with children, even more so if they try to do things like fishing,boating come on what boys not going to be attacked to that .. i use those two.. as i knew someone that allowed their kids to be taken on these outings by a male adult and thought nothing of it .. i had not seen these people for a while and in fact i didnt really even like them ..... but what can u do when yr partner does ..... just grin and bare it and go along for the ride.

I just sat there watching who ever play football on the telly,sipping on a coffee thinking lets get out of here already.. when my partner asked where are all the kids the answer come back with 2 are around somewhere and stephen 8yrs and justin 6yrs are out fishing my partner knowing more then i did said who with yr dad or brother ... to which was said neither the guy down the road ... ok ... My ears are up ... THE GUY DOWN THE ROAD .... i look at her,she looks at me ..... and who is he when he is at home haha

Arthur he moved in 6weeks ago ... Mike was having car probs and he was walking past and asked him what was up... and they got talking,he helped and the cars been great ever since ... he and Mike have been great mates ever since..

There was a lot more said but that was a gist of it..... i cant belive these people. OK so how come the boys are out fishing with him and mike's here ... oh Micheal doesnt like fishing he hates it...... and he scared of water... And of course Arthur loves to fish he even has a boat he told the boys he'd take them out in one day..

Apparently it only took the guy a week to get them to hand over there sons for weekly fishing trips .... they found nothing wrong with this.. ow there oldest child is a girl she wanted a boat ride as well but Arthur said he prefered not to take a girl her age without a parent .... Rebecca was 9yrs at the time.

They told him that they trusted him and it would be ok,but they couldnt get him to change his mind and he wouldnt take her .... well my alarm bells are ringing and i said you find nothing wrong with a grown man (single)taking yr kids fishing every weekend.

Noooooo no nothing at all he is a really nice guy ... I'm starting to hyperventilate .. My wife..... Yes i was married once to those who didnt know ..... said i have to admit i find it a bit strange ,A BIT for ... for pete's sake you have known this guy for 6wks know next to nothing about him and let him take yr kids when ever and where ever he wants my god talk about a pedophiles dream .....parents like them dont come along everyday.
well i sure hope not anyway.

God only knows what could be going on .... needless to say they were getting a tad bit upset by this stage...... my wife was a bit worried fists might start to fly.. and Mike is a big man ... She starts to apologise, by saying its prob him as in (me) over reacting as we dont leave our kids with anyone but my mum ..... to which im told by Mike that he finds that strange ... WHO gives a shit least i know where my kids are and that they are safe.

Needless to say i barely got out alive and only because of my wife,i can be my own worst enermy at times ... And needless to say i never had to go baaaaaack.

there was an endless phone call that night between the 2 women,thank god i was at work .. But there was a cassette player and tape on the table with a note that read please listen to OR ELSE

So i listened ........ NOT GOOD

Basic gist was to in future keep my mouth shut and to keep my paranoia's to myself i left out all her (my wifes) abuse and swearing.

And there was a P.S as well.... i was never to darken Mikes doorstep again.

Yaaaaaaaa a win.

But 3 months later they darkened ours and informed us that ..... some times i just wish i was wrong,it turns out 2 of their boys where molested and the 3rd had been out fishing as well by this time the eldest said he had not been .... but i didnt see him not being ... and as it turned out he was he is a drug addict and his younger brother is an alcoholic.

The youngest one seems to have delt with it in his own way .... i hear from him every now and then,he's the only one that seems determind not to let it beat him and has held down a fulltime job .... Im proud of him he's turned out to be a strong lad .. he looks at it as..... That asshole recked my childhood,be damed if he's recking the rest of it.

I just wonder sometimes if id stood my ground,if i ever come up against the same thing i would .... knowing my luck id be wrong...... but i could live with that ..

 

[Jayman01]

Jayman, you know my experience with pedophilia. I need not elaborate. "Oh, but he is so good with the boys." Heard that, too. It doesn't matter to me that MJ was nuts. Men need to keep their hands off kid's nuts. Period. The fact he was rich and famous, allowed the parents to think it was cool for their little boys to spend time alone with him. How opportune for a pedophile. He knew. No one is THAT sheltered.

I chose not to mention this in my original post regarding his death. He was a fantastic performer. No doubt. He was also drug addled and a perv toward children. Evil combo.

He did not adopt his children. They were his. Turkey baster, or science, they were his. That alarmed me when I first heard about it.

On a lighter note, all the other celebs that passed, had many positives that they gave to the world. I never bought anything Billy was selling, but I was certainly tempted! He was good!

Paris thanks for sharing. I do agree with you. He should have kept his hands off boys nuts. I was not defending Michael Jackson. I really am not much of a fan of his music either. Too many people look at every issue as being simply black or white. Very few people look at the shades of grey to any issue. I never thought for a moment that Michael didn't know what he did with those kids and I wasn't taking his side. I think the kids parents were crazy to ever leave their kids with someone as looney as Michael was. I was saying is that Michael was so deranged in his head that to him anything that happened appeared to him to be innocent fun. Kind of like if you and I were 10 or 12 years old experimenting by playing truth or dare or something. The difference being Michael was 30 or 40 and still thinking he was an innocent kid having fun. I don't ever believe it was ever his intention to molest any of those kids when things started out. Things progressed and shit happened. Michael in real life was not 10 or 12 at the time. Therefore; he could justifiably say he was only having innocent fun. He should have known better and so should the parents.

I was 9 and my one friend was 7 when we first played truth or dare. We both 69'd for the first time at those ages. Did we know we were having sex? No, not really. Did we set out to have sex from the start? No, shit just happened and it felt good. We laughed about it as time went on. One day we just stopped asking the question truth or dare. Then the questions was will you do me if I do you? In this case nobody forced them self on the other person. Yet, if either of us talked to a trained psychologists we would be told that we molested each other because we were too young to understand what we were really doing to each other. Regardless of what the professionals had to say; neither of us thinks we were molested. We just had a lot of fun with each other growing up. The difference here is my friend and I were close to the same age and exploring for the first time. Both the game and the 69 were his ideas believe it or not. I was just going along for the ride and what a ride it was. LOL. From this personal experience I can tell you that children do explore sex with their friends a lot.

So, let me be more clear.

Do I think Michael Jackson ever had sex with some of the kids that came to Neverland? "Yes."

Do I believe that he planned to do it? "No"

Do I believe that Michael felt he did anything wrong when things happened? "No"

Do I believe that Michael knew that society would say it was wrong? "Yes"

Do I believe the Michael lived in his own fantasy world? "Yes"

Do I believe that the parents should have seen that molestation was possible with their kids? "Yes"

After the very first allogations why would any parent in their right mind expose their child to the potential for abuse or possible molestation? "I don't know. I think they were using their children to get rich or something."

Do I believe that Michael was a sick man and needed help? "Yes"

Paris, I think you and I are on the same page for the most part. Some our perceptions are skewed. I really do have a low tolerance for pedophiles. I don't believe that Michael craved sex with young boys/girls. I believe Michael craved his youth and he craved being close to kids to feel young. I believe that inevitably sexual exploration may have come into the equation on one or more occasions. It was wrong no matter how it happened. I do believe that more children/young adults would have come forward at the time of the trials if there was more to it than that. Many youth who have been molested tend to hold grudges and often seek revenge later in life. We may never know the truth. I just know that Michael always came across to me as a sick man who needed therapy. Yes, you are right adults should keep their hands off kids nuts and other sexual body parts too.

However; Please understand that I am the same person who would tell you to love the person and hate the disease. I.e. A person is struggling with addiction bad enough they will stoop to being gay for their drug of choice or in some cases robbery and even murder. Yes, the person committed the crime. The DSMV list addiction as a mental health illness/disease. One is too many and a thousand is never enough. The disease causes people to rationalize their behavior so that they can get more and more of their drink or drug. There is no cure for the disease of addiction accept for them hitting rock bottom and seeking professional help to get clean and help overcome the desire to use and even then the disease can only be managed. It is that or jails,institutions,and death that finally help get them clean and sober. The person once sober/clean is still responsible for their behavior and the crimes they committed while they were in active addiction. However; at the time the disease of addiction was in control they were not. Trust me as a D&A counselor I have had to look at many a person and tell them that it was their addiction that made caused them to do this or that. Then I remind them they don't have to live like that anymore. This is a standard part of D&A therapy. In the 12 step program the 10th step is to make amends for all those whom they have harmed while in active addiction or at least make the attempt.

So, it does not appear we are comparing apples and oranges. Let me relate this to above. Michael Jackson was a sick man mentally for years. His disease was not medicated (he was not receiving treatment/therapy for the disease or illness). He was in fact responsible for his behaviors even though it was not his intention to harm or molest. I truly believe that Michael loved and respected children for the gifts that they are to the world and he never ever wanted to see them in need or to suffer. However; his mental illness caused him to commit behaviors and atrocities that if he were thinking coherently would have made him sick.

 

[gwr19569424]

Man guys, I didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest and get everyone hot and bothered. I was just pointing out that we had a few celebrity deaths.
I guess from here on out, I'll just keep my thoughts to myself and read the forums. Sometimes it doesn't pay to start a thread. Just never know where it will go after it starts.
Gary

 

[mikeyank]

Man guys, I didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest and get everyone hot and bothered. I was just pointing out that we had a few celebrity deaths.
I guess from here on out, I'll just keep my thoughts to myself and read the forums. Sometimes it doesn't pay to start a thread. Just never know where it will go after it starts.
Gary

Gary, There is no need to apologize for starting this thread, or for getting everyone "hot and bothered". This kind of discussion is what makes this forum such a great place to visit, and express our opinions on.

I consider a lively debate and discussion to be extremely invigorating and healthy. As long as we are not attacking one another personally, there is nothing wrong with disagreeing. The world would be a very boring place if we were all the same, with the same thoughts, and the same way of dressing and living our lives. So I say thank you for bringing up this subject, and never shy away from your own opinions, whether the majority will find them popular or not.

Mike

 

[Pervert]

Mikeyank wrote : "Gary, There is no need to apologize for starting this thread, or for getting everyone "hot and bothered". This kind of discussion is what makes this forum such a great place to visit, and express our opinions on.

I consider a lively debate and discussion to be extremely invigorating and healthy. As long as we are not attacking one another personally, there is nothing wrong with disagreeing. The world would be a very boring place if we were all the same, with the same thoughts, and the same way of dressing and living our lives. So I say thank you for bringing up this subject, and never shy away from your own opinions, whether the majority will find them popular or not."

I agree totally with Mike, the safe-keeping of our sacred cubs is the duty and responsibility of all of us ; about that we are all (I hope?) in agreement. The debate is whether Michael Jackson was a child-molester. I have stated my opinion and it is something I feel most strongly about, so does everyone else. The only crime would be indifference. Several contributors have shared very personal and harrowing experiences with us. Gentlemen I thank you. I am the richer for your generosity.

To end with an observation : We have debated one of the most controversial aspects of human sexuality and in spite of the deep-rooted convictions of us all the debate remained respectful of one another's feelings. I am impressed and it is an honour to be part of this forum. Respect my Friends.

And I shall miss Karl Malden, he was a gentleman and a fine actor.

Pervert.

 

[Kodieboy]

Man guys, I didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest and get everyone hot and bothered. I was just pointing out that we had a few celebrity deaths.
I guess from here on out, I'll just keep my thoughts to myself and read the forums. Sometimes it doesn't pay to start a thread. Just never know where it will go after it starts.
Gary

Keep starting topic's belive me no hornets were hurt in this discussion so far or will be .... So keep posting or else bud.

 

[parisnoyd]

Man guys, I didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest and get everyone hot and bothered. I was just pointing out that we had a few celebrity deaths.
I guess from here on out, I'll just keep my thoughts to myself and read the forums. Sometimes it doesn't pay to start a thread. Just never know where it will go after it starts.
Gary

Gary, please keep posting! You didn't start anything but a nice thread honoring some much loved deceased celebrities!

This thread took a turn, for which you did not intend, which often happens on forums.

Keep posting, Gary!

 

[parisnoyd]

Paris thanks for sharing. I do agree with you. He should have kept his hands off boys nuts. I was not defending Michael Jackson. I really am not much of a fan of his music either. Too many people look at every issue as being simply black or white. Very few people look at the shades of grey to any issue. I never thought for a moment that Michael didn't know what he did with those kids and I wasn't taking his side. I think the kids parents were crazy to ever leave their kids with someone as looney as Michael was. I was saying is that Michael was so deranged in his head that to him anything that happened appeared to him to be innocent fun. Kind of like if you and I were 10 or 12 years old experimenting by playing truth or dare or something. The difference being Michael was 30 or 40 and still thinking he was an innocent kid having fun. I don't ever believe it was ever his intention to molest any of those kids when things started out. Things progressed and shit happened. Michael in real life was not 10 or 12 at the time. Therefore; he could justifiably say he was only having innocent fun. He should have known better and so should the parents.

I was 9 and my one friend was 7 when we first played truth or dare. We both 69'd for the first time at those ages. Did we know we were having sex? No, not really. Did we set out to have sex from the start? No, shit just happened and it felt good. We laughed about it as time went on. One day we just stopped asking the question truth or dare. Then the questions was will you do me if I do you? In this case nobody forced them self on the other person. Yet, if either of us talked to a trained psychologists we would be told that we molested each other because we were too young to understand what we were really doing to each other. Regardless of what the professionals had to say; neither of us thinks we were molested. We just had a lot of fun with each other growing up. The difference here is my friend and I were close to the same age and exploring for the first time. Both the game and the 69 were his ideas believe it or not. I was just going along for the ride and what a ride it was. LOL. From this personal experience I can tell you that children do explore sex with their friends a lot.

So, let me be more clear.

Do I think Michael Jackson ever had sex with some of the kids that came to Neverland? "Yes."

Do I believe that he planned to do it? "No"

Do I believe that Michael felt he did anything wrong when things happened? "No"

Do I believe that Michael knew that society would say it was wrong? "Yes"

Do I believe the Michael lived in his own fantasy world? "Yes"

Do I believe that the parents should have seen that molestation was possible with their kids? "Yes"

After the very first allogations why would any parent in their right mind expose their child to the potential for abuse or possible molestation? "I don't know. I think they were using their children to get rich or something."

Do I believe that Michael was a sick man and needed help? "Yes"

Paris, I think you and I are on the same page for the most part. Some our perceptions are skewed. I really do have a low tolerance for pedophiles. I don't believe that Michael craved sex with young boys/girls. I believe Michael craved his youth and he craved being close to kids to feel young. I believe that inevitably sexual exploration may have come into the equation on one or more occasions. It was wrong no matter how it happened. I do believe that more children/young adults would have come forward at the time of the trials if there was more to it than that. Many youth who have been molested tend to hold grudges and often seek revenge later in life. We may never know the truth. I just know that Michael always came across to me as a sick man who needed therapy. Yes, you are right adults should keep their hands off kids nuts and other sexual body parts too.

However; Please understand that I am the same person who would tell you to love the person and hate the disease. I.e. A person is struggling with addiction bad enough they will stoop to being gay for their drug of choice or in some cases robbery and even murder. Yes, the person committed the crime. The DSMV list addiction as a mental health illness/disease. One is too many and a thousand is never enough. The disease causes people to rationalize their behavior so that they can get more and more of their drink or drug. There is no cure for the disease of addiction accept for them hitting rock bottom and seeking professional help to get clean and help overcome the desire to use and even then the disease can only be managed. It is that or jails,institutions,and death that finally help get them clean and sober. The person once sober/clean is still responsible for their behavior and the crimes they committed while they were in active addiction. However; at the time the disease of addiction was in control they were not. Trust me as a D&A counselor I have had to look at many a person and tell them that it was their addiction that made caused them to do this or that. Then I remind them they don't have to live like that anymore. This is a standard part of D&A therapy. In the 12 step program the 10th step is to make amends for all those whom they have harmed while in active addiction or at least make the attempt.

So, it does not appear we are comparing apples and oranges. Let me relate this to above. Michael Jackson was a sick man mentally for years. His disease was not medicated (he was not receiving treatment/therapy for the disease or illness). He was in fact responsible for his behaviors even though it was not his intention to harm or molest. I truly believe that Michael loved and respected children for the gifts that they are to the world and he never ever wanted to see them in need or to suffer. However; his mental illness caused him to commit behaviors and atrocities that if he were thinking coherently would have made him sick.

Jayman, I actually do agree with your MJ theory, and I know you were not excusing his behavior. MJ was nuts. You only had to look at him to see that. ITA with you that the parents should have their heads examined as well. Especially after MJ's trial. I don't recall ever hearing that any little girls spent the night with him. Some kids parents. WTF were they thinking?!

Yeah, I have a real problem with pedophiles. As do you. Causing confusion, fear, or pain to a little boy or girl in that manner pisses me off! Ok, I'm done now.

The other celeb's deaths certainly were overshadowed by MJ. Sadly.

Jayman, no worries.

Paris

 

[Kodieboy]

Yes i think Jaymans hit the nail on the head ..... as well

 

[tampa24]

Paris,i know where your coming from ... And i agree.. no one with a brain would leave a child with anyone that was even slightly thought of as a pedophile. And with everything Parents did over and over again..... and they did it for one reason only MONEY. the parents should have been charged for abuseive neglect .... not get payouts

I still like to think Micheal didnt do it , but have to admit im prob 99% wrong.. but i still would not have left a child with him.... if id known him in person and if id had 99% faith in him .. its that 1% doult that would have kept any child i knew way out of his reach.

I am very suspicious of anyone that likes to spend a lot of time with children, even more so if they try to do things like fishing,boating come on what boys not going to be attacked to that .. i use those two.. as i knew someone that allowed their kids to be taken on these outings by a male adult and thought nothing of it .. i had not seen these people for a while and in fact i didnt really even like them ..... but what can u do when yr partner does ..... just grin and bare it and go along for the ride.

I just sat there watching who ever play football on the telly,sipping on a coffee thinking lets get out of here already.. when my partner asked where are all the kids the answer come back with 2 are around somewhere and stephen 8yrs and justin 6yrs are out fishing my partner knowing more then i did said who with yr dad or brother ... to which was said neither the guy down the road ... ok ... My ears are up ... THE GUY DOWN THE ROAD .... i look at her,she looks at me ..... and who is he when he is at home haha

Arthur he moved in 6weeks ago ... Mike was having car probs and he was walking past and asked him what was up... and they got talking,he helped and the cars been great ever since ... he and Mike have been great mates ever since..

There was a lot more said but that was a gist of it..... i cant belive these people. OK so how come the boys are out fishing with him and mike's here ... oh Micheal doesnt like fishing he hates it...... and he scared of water... And of course Arthur loves to fish he even has a boat he told the boys he'd take them out in one day..

Apparently it only took the guy a week to get them to hand over there sons for weekly fishing trips .... they found nothing wrong with this.. ow there oldest child is a girl she wanted a boat ride as well but Arthur said he prefered not to take a girl her age without a parent .... Rebecca was 9yrs at the time.

They told him that they trusted him and it would be ok,but they couldnt get him to change his mind and he wouldnt take her .... well my alarm bells are ringing and i said you find nothing wrong with a grown man (single)taking yr kids fishing every weekend.

Noooooo no nothing at all he is a really nice guy ... I'm starting to hyperventilate .. My wife..... Yes i was married once to those who didnt know ..... said i have to admit i find it a bit strange ,A BIT for ... for pete's sake you have known this guy for 6wks know next to nothing about him and let him take yr kids when ever and where ever he wants my god talk about a pedophiles dream .....parents like them dont come along everyday.
well i sure hope not anyway.

God only knows what could be going on .... needless to say they were getting a tad bit upset by this stage...... my wife was a bit worried fists might start to fly.. and Mike is a big man ... She starts to apologise, by saying its prob him as in (me) over reacting as we dont leave our kids with anyone but my mum ..... to which im told by Mike that he finds that strange ... WHO gives a shit least i know where my kids are and that they are safe.

Needless to say i barely got out alive and only because of my wife,i can be my own worst enermy at times ... And needless to say i never had to go baaaaaack.

there was an endless phone call that night between the 2 women,thank god i was at work .. But there was a cassette player and tape on the table with a note that read please listen to OR ELSE

So i listened ........ NOT GOOD

Basic gist was to in future keep my mouth shut and to keep my paranoia's to myself i left out all her (my wifes) abuse and swearing.

And there was a P.S as well.... i was never to darken Mikes doorstep again.

Yaaaaaaaa a win.

But 3 months later they darkened ours and informed us that ..... some times i just wish i was wrong,it turns out 2 of their boys where molested and the 3rd had been out fishing as well by this time the eldest said he had not been .... but i didnt see him not being ... and as it turned out he was he is a drug addict and his younger brother is an alcoholic.

The youngest one seems to have delt with it in his own way .... i hear from him every now and then,he's the only one that seems determind not to let it beat him and has held down a fulltime job .... Im proud of him he's turned out to be a strong lad .. he looks at it as..... That asshole recked my childhood,be damed if he's recking the rest of it.

I just wonder sometimes if id stood my ground,if i ever come up against the same thing i would .... knowing my luck id be wrong...... but i could live with that ..

Bravo Kodie!

I so wish that you had been wrong about him. I really respect the fact that you stood your ground in their home and expressed your alarm at the lack of concern for their children's' safety. That whole situation should have raised alarm bells for any sane and worldly person. At the very least you know that you tried to intervene. Even though it was a very embarrassing and awkward experience that cost you a friendship, you didn't back down or apologize for expressing your strong opinion. It's a shame for the children that you were right. But the parents were just too gullible. You tried...

Good for you!

 

[baal]

And now some football player's been murdered. I'm not too much up on football anymore but aren't the Ravens a group of thugs? Could that have led to his demise?

 

[Kodieboy]

Who are the Ravans

thats as bad as a team over here called the Titians

 

[Jayman01]

Man guys, I didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest and get everyone hot and bothered. I was just pointing out that we had a few celebrity deaths.
I guess from here on out, I'll just keep my thoughts to myself and read the forums. Sometimes it doesn't pay to start a thread. Just never know where it will go after it starts.
Gary

Gary, bless your heart. You didn't stir up a hornet's nest. You are fantastic. This was a great thread. This is what the forum is for. Please don't be distraught by spirited debate. I think many GLBT individuals are associated in general with peoples perceptions of GLBT people. Michael Jackson's celebrity made him a target for everyone and everything that he did right or wrong really impacted people as a whole. For me the reason for writing here was a form of therapy to help bring my thoughts and feelings to the forefront so I could let go. When I read others thoughts and posts I often gain more clarity of my own thoughts as do many others. Please keep posting. You did nothing more than open a door for us to vent. If it wasn't you it would have been me or someone else.

Please, One day on the ship we had an armature night on our ship. I decided to do a comedy act. However; day before the show I was for warned not to make fun of certain members of my command. Hummm! Now where do I look for material. LOL So, I decided to work my act up around children's fairy tales. (Now there is some macho material for soldiers and sailors, LOL)

Anyway, I wen on and on and I had some great stuff. I got a lot of laughs with the "Alice in Wonderland" material, best laughs came with "The Wizard of Oz" stuff. Yet, after the show a guy came up to me and told me that I really wasn't very funny. His aunt was hit and killed by a flying house in a tornado. Gee, how was I supposed to see that one coming. So, It was great for everyone but him. However; I didn't feel bad because it was therapeutic in an odd sort of way for him to deal with the tragic death of his favorite aunt.

 

[Kodieboy]

Gary, bless your heart. You didn't stir up a hornet's nest. You are fantastic. This was a great thread. This is what the forum is for. Please don't be distraught by spirited debate. I think many GLBT individuals are associated in general with peoples perceptions of GLBT people. Michael Jackson's celebrity made him a target for everyone and everything that he did right or wrong really impacted people as a whole. For me the reason for writing here was a form of therapy to help bring my thoughts and feelings to the forefront so I could let go. When I read others thoughts and posts I often gain more clarity of my own thoughts as do many others. Please keep posting. You did nothing more than open a door for us to vent. If it wasn't you it would have been me or someone else.

Please, One day on the ship we had an armature night on our ship. I decided to do a comedy act. However; day before the show I was for warned not to make fun of certain members of my command. Hummm! Now where do I look for material. LOL So, I decided to work my act up around children's fairy tales. (Now there is some macho material for soldiers and sailors, LOL)

Anyway, I wen on and on and I had some great stuff. I got a lot of laughs with the "Alice in Wonderland" material, best laughs came with "The Wizard of Oz" stuff. Yet, after the show a guy came up to me and told me that I really wasn't very funny. His aunt was hit and killed by a flying house in a tornado. Gee, how was I supposed to see that one coming. So, It was great for everyone but him. However; I didn't feel bad because it was therapeutic in an odd sort of way for him to deal with the tragic death of his favorite aunt.

Im heart broken,i thought the gr8 Jayman could see all .... and knew all.

My faith .. is shattered

 

[baal]

The funeral of Michael will be Tuesday and televised by every fucking network. He made music, people! He didn't save lives, change the course of nations, or anything like that. He. Made. Music.

Gaah! At least I have fair warning not to turn my TV on Tuesday...

 

[raysvq]

The funeral of Michael will be Tuesday and televised by every fucking network. He made music, people! He didn't save lives, change the course of nations, or anything like that. He. Made. Music.

Gaah! At least I have fair warning not to turn my TV on Tuesday...

I have to agree with you baal - He was a performer & only a performer
He did what he was good at nothing more, just like the rest of us