I myself didn't see any such thing. I don't believe you made an ass of yourself in anyone's eyes. As human beings we are often conflicted about our choices over a great many things. Not every decision we make conforms to every belief we hold. And that's alright. haha
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I myself didn't see any such thing. I don't believe you made an ass of yourself in anyone's eyes. As human beings we are often conflicted about our choices over a great many things. Not every decision we make conforms to every belief we hold. And that's alright. haha
cumrag27
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I believe you have just done a great public service!
My Dearest Kelly,
Your painful words of wisdom, gained through limitless heartfelt devastation will forever ring true for as long as man inhabits the earth!
Until one has fully experienced the "Sexual Armageddon" and knowingly faces one personal demons(of any kind and description), we can't really appreciate all the suffering that was the fate of the AIDS Epidemic, since AIDS was first commonly identified back in the 1980's. Likewise, just like all Jews can't possibly fully escape the realities of the Genocide while the non-Jews blindly looked elsewhere while the atrocities continued to accumulate due to Hitler's never ending thirst for unbridled power over those they considered inferior.
I feel every gay person must be a student of our own unique Sexual Orientation History, so like the Jewish before, are fully committed to never repeat history, every again!!! Just like the Jewish People, we are all people of God's creation(however you may define it).
Back to the topic at hand, the WORLDWIDE AIDS EPIDEMIC OF THE 1980's & 90's IS OUR LEGACY AND SPEAKS PROUDLY OF THE INESTIMABLE SUFFERING OUR CONTEMPORARIES FACED BRAVELY WITH THE MINIMUM OF SUPPORT AND A FEW ENDURED TO THIS DAY! TO KNOW FIRST HANDED LIKE KELLY HERE, THIS PERIOD REPRESENTS SOME OF AMERICA'S & THE WORLD'S DARKEST DAYS!!! OUR OWN "JAYMAN" ALSO PERSONALLY DEALT WITH AIDS PATIENTS DURING ITS EARLIEST DAYS. I AM CERTAIN OF THE BEAUTIFUL SOUL WITHIN KELLY AND JAYMAN, ALIKE, AS A DIRECT CONSEQUENCE OF HER LIMITLESS SUFFERING AND PERSONAL COMMITTMENT THEY BOTH WITNESSED WITH THEIR OWN SIGNIFICANT OTHER"(80'S ^ 90's LINGO FOR LOVER/PARTNER/FRIEND).
SURVIVORS TODAY NEED TO HUMBLY ADMIT TO THEMSELVES AND OTHERS THAT..."BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD, GO I! INDEED MANY BEEN SPARED GREATER SUFFERING, BY THE MERCY OF GOD MOST ADMIT THAT I NEVER WAS SO MANY UNFORTUNATE TO KNOW THE INTIMATE SUFFERING THEY PAINFULLY AND SLOWLY ENDURED, BEFORE SO MANY DIED SO UNNECESSARILY AND PREMATURELY. BECAUSE OF KELLY'S OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, I WOULD HOPE EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US WOULD WILLINGLY ENDURE THE SLIGHT SACRIFICE SO VERY LITTLE "LATEX" FOR NOW HAVING THE LUXURY & PRIVILEGE OF HAVING OUR PERSONAL SEXUAL EXPRESSION IN THIS WORLD OF AIDES SURVIVORS AMONG US.
MANY OF US DURING THE AIDS CRISIS MADE REALLY MISINFORMED, PERSONAL MISTAKES WITH OUR IMMATURE ASSUMED INVULNERABILITY TO DISEASE, STEMMING MOSTLY OUT OF PERSONAL IGNORANCE OR AN UNWILLINGNESS TO BE REALISTIC ABOUT LIFE, BUT, DUE TO SOME UNEXPLAINED IMMUNITY TO THE VIRUS SOME POSSESSED(IT IS NOW ASSUMED THAT THE SURVIVORS BLOODLINE OF THE "PLAGUE IN EUROPE CENTURIES AGO" REPRESENTED SOME OF THOSE WHO WENT THROUGH THIS "AIDS EPIDEMIC" OF THE 80's & 90's WITHOUT SO MUCH AS GETTING A SCRATCH, WHILE THEIR SIGNIFICANT OTHERS OFTEN HAD NO SUCH CENTURIES OLD IMMUNITY TO GET THEM THROUGH THIS NIGHTMARE.
I HAVE NOTHING BUT THE GREATEST RESPECT FOR OUR SURVIVORS TODAY AND ENCOURAGE ALL OF YOU TO SET THE EXAMPLE, THAT IS SO BADLY NEEDED TODAY!!! A SPECIAL THANKS GOES TO KELLY, TO BRAVELY GO WHERE NO FORUMITE HAS GONE BEFORE. GOD BLESS YOU KELLY FOR SHARING YOUR MEANINGFUL EXPERIENCES. I BELIEVE YOU ALONE HAVE JUST DONE A GREAT PUBLIC SERVICE TO BOTH MANKIND AND WOMANKIND!
Sincerely go in peace and Thank you!
Stimpy
My Dearest Kelly,
Your painful words of wisdom, gained through limitless heartfelt devastation will forever ring true for as long as man inhabits the earth!
Until one has fully experienced the "Sexual Armageddon" and knowingly faces one personal demons(of any kind and description), we can't really appreciate all the suffering that was the fate of the AIDS Epidemic, since AIDS was first commonly identified back in the 1980's. Likewise, just like all Jews can't possibly fully escape the realities of the Genocide while the non-Jews blindly looked elsewhere while the atrocities continued to accumulate due to Hitler's never ending thirst for unbridled power over those they considered inferior.
I feel every gay person must be a student of our own unique Sexual Orientation History, so like the Jewish before, are fully committed to never repeat history, every again!!! Just like the Jewish People, we are all people of God's creation(however you may define it).
Back to the topic at hand, the WORLDWIDE AIDS EPIDEMIC OF THE 1980's & 90's IS OUR LEGACY AND SPEAKS PROUDLY OF THE INESTIMABLE SUFFERING OUR CONTEMPORARIES FACED BRAVELY WITH THE MINIMUM OF SUPPORT AND A FEW ENDURED TO THIS DAY! TO KNOW FIRST HANDED LIKE KELLY HERE, THIS PERIOD REPRESENTS SOME OF AMERICA'S & THE WORLD'S DARKEST DAYS!!! OUR OWN "JAYMAN" ALSO PERSONALLY DEALT WITH AIDS PATIENTS DURING ITS EARLIEST DAYS. I AM CERTAIN OF THE BEAUTIFUL SOUL WITHIN KELLY AND JAYMAN, ALIKE, AS A DIRECT CONSEQUENCE OF HER LIMITLESS SUFFERING AND PERSONAL COMMITTMENT THEY BOTH WITNESSED WITH THEIR OWN SIGNIFICANT OTHER"(80'S ^ 90's LINGO FOR LOVER/PARTNER/FRIEND).
SURVIVORS TODAY NEED TO HUMBLY ADMIT TO THEMSELVES AND OTHERS THAT..."BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD, GO I! INDEED MANY BEEN SPARED GREATER SUFFERING, BY THE MERCY OF GOD MOST ADMIT THAT I NEVER WAS SO MANY UNFORTUNATE TO KNOW THE INTIMATE SUFFERING THEY PAINFULLY AND SLOWLY ENDURED, BEFORE SO MANY DIED SO UNNECESSARILY AND PREMATURELY. BECAUSE OF KELLY'S OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, I WOULD HOPE EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US WOULD WILLINGLY ENDURE THE SLIGHT SACRIFICE SO VERY LITTLE "LATEX" FOR NOW HAVING THE LUXURY & PRIVILEGE OF HAVING OUR PERSONAL SEXUAL EXPRESSION IN THIS WORLD OF AIDES SURVIVORS AMONG US.
MANY OF US DURING THE AIDS CRISIS MADE REALLY MISINFORMED, PERSONAL MISTAKES WITH OUR IMMATURE ASSUMED INVULNERABILITY TO DISEASE, STEMMING MOSTLY OUT OF PERSONAL IGNORANCE OR AN UNWILLINGNESS TO BE REALISTIC ABOUT LIFE, BUT, DUE TO SOME UNEXPLAINED IMMUNITY TO THE VIRUS SOME POSSESSED(IT IS NOW ASSUMED THAT THE SURVIVORS BLOODLINE OF THE "PLAGUE IN EUROPE CENTURIES AGO" REPRESENTED SOME OF THOSE WHO WENT THROUGH THIS "AIDS EPIDEMIC" OF THE 80's & 90's WITHOUT SO MUCH AS GETTING A SCRATCH, WHILE THEIR SIGNIFICANT OTHERS OFTEN HAD NO SUCH CENTURIES OLD IMMUNITY TO GET THEM THROUGH THIS NIGHTMARE.
I HAVE NOTHING BUT THE GREATEST RESPECT FOR OUR SURVIVORS TODAY AND ENCOURAGE ALL OF YOU TO SET THE EXAMPLE, THAT IS SO BADLY NEEDED TODAY!!! A SPECIAL THANKS GOES TO KELLY, TO BRAVELY GO WHERE NO FORUMITE HAS GONE BEFORE. GOD BLESS YOU KELLY FOR SHARING YOUR MEANINGFUL EXPERIENCES. I BELIEVE YOU ALONE HAVE JUST DONE A GREAT PUBLIC SERVICE TO BOTH MANKIND AND WOMANKIND!
Sincerely go in peace and Thank you!
Stimpy
This thread has really brought out many strong feelings about the nature of choice and consequence.
Back in the day, most people with AIDS contracted the virus without even knowing it existed. When the first victims fell, it was called GRID (Gay Related Immune Deficiency). Soon, it was know to be present in IV drug users and hemophiliacs. The AIDS moniker showed up in '84 or '85. As we all know, the 80's and early 90's saw 10's of thousands of deaths.
I mentioned in my previous post that I had lived in The West Village. I moved to Manhattan in 1987 to attend graduate school. I had only come out a few years before, but moving there was like entering a maelstrom. Gay life and love and sex continued, but all of it was shadowed by fear and dread and death. I had come from Seattle where the infection rate was estimated at 15%. NYC and San Francisco were the epicenters of the disease. In NYC the estimate was 50%. By the time I left NYC I knew dozens that had died including one of my best friends. My first partner was from NY and lost count of the dead he knew at around seventy.
I became active in ACT UP about a year after I arrived. I did everything from an action at the NIH in Washington to marching with ACT UP in parades to selling t-shirts at meetings and events. Then I also got involved with Queer Nation (it had been an affinity group within ACT UP before it was decided, after much debate, that it was not focused on AIDS as much as it was on LGBT rights). Both groups were about empowerment and visibility in different but overlapping area's of gay life. They were fueled by rage at a nation that watched us die with little concern and denied us our rights as human beings. As the plague raged during the Reagan years, he never once said the word AIDS in any speech. The echoes of voices raised in anger and desperation in meetings and the chants of slogans shouted in actions on the streets of NY are still with me. The experience totally redefined my identity as a gay man. Activism had radicalized me and changed everything from my attitudes about gay life, life in general, my politics and even my appearance. I looked the "ACT UP fag" part that so many men adopted. I wanted people to know that I was a part of what was happening and they could go fuck themselves if they didn't like it. I wasn't going to hide anymore. Only four times was I confronted by the straight boys that came into the Village to harass whoever they thought they could victimize. Two were simple name calling, one was a bottle thrown from a moving car on 7th Ave as the cowards yelled slurs, and the fourth was a scary confrontation on the street with a drunk who also threw a bottle but was too wasted to do much else. I had friends who were beaten, one so badly that he was hospitalized for two weeks. That time was a very different time than the one we live in now. But I very much understand Kelly's story. I lived something like it, too.
That was what seems a lifetime ago. Today, young gay men have no real experience to compare to that time in our history. You can tell them, but it's like someone who fought in WWII trying to tell us what it was really like. You can't know it until you've lived it. Protease inhibitors appeared in '96 and the dying were being resurrected. Today there are over twenty-five drugs that suppress HIV in a myriad of combinations. HIV still carries a potent stigma, but most of the dying in the developed countries has stopped. The fear of infection is still there, but the horrors of a death from complications of HIV infection has receded deep into the distance. It's considered a "manageable" disease. The gaunt and dying no longer are daily visible on the streets. ACT UP demanded treatment and drugs, Queer Nation demanded respect and rights, and a host of other grassroots organizations made a huge difference.
So, here we are in 2014, without a cure but with a manageable illness. Positive men with an undetectable viral load are significantly less likely to pass on the virus (96% less likely). Many gay men are less afraid and take more risks. Infections are still occurring at an alarming rate. Gay for pay men who know their partner has been tested within a day or two of doing a scene are even less afraid. It's not a stranger hook-up with someone in a bar you met when you had too much to drink.
As I said in my first post, BB porn is back because there is a market demand for it, the testing is highly reliable, and guys in their twenties didn't live through the worst of the plague years. The young and not so young still feel a sense of invulnerability in the face of many maladies and general mayhem. Just watch 10 minutes of a Jackass movie.
The porn we are watching is not the porn of yore. I totally understand those members whose memories are scarred by the horrors of the past and their real concerns about and fear of the return of BB sex in porn and real life. But now is not then. There are now options we only dreamed of. We can't make decisions for the young in the context of today's choices. We can only hope that they listen a little and that it just might, might impact a decision they could later regret.
Back in the day, most people with AIDS contracted the virus without even knowing it existed. When the first victims fell, it was called GRID (Gay Related Immune Deficiency). Soon, it was know to be present in IV drug users and hemophiliacs. The AIDS moniker showed up in '84 or '85. As we all know, the 80's and early 90's saw 10's of thousands of deaths.
I mentioned in my previous post that I had lived in The West Village. I moved to Manhattan in 1987 to attend graduate school. I had only come out a few years before, but moving there was like entering a maelstrom. Gay life and love and sex continued, but all of it was shadowed by fear and dread and death. I had come from Seattle where the infection rate was estimated at 15%. NYC and San Francisco were the epicenters of the disease. In NYC the estimate was 50%. By the time I left NYC I knew dozens that had died including one of my best friends. My first partner was from NY and lost count of the dead he knew at around seventy.
I became active in ACT UP about a year after I arrived. I did everything from an action at the NIH in Washington to marching with ACT UP in parades to selling t-shirts at meetings and events. Then I also got involved with Queer Nation (it had been an affinity group within ACT UP before it was decided, after much debate, that it was not focused on AIDS as much as it was on LGBT rights). Both groups were about empowerment and visibility in different but overlapping area's of gay life. They were fueled by rage at a nation that watched us die with little concern and denied us our rights as human beings. As the plague raged during the Reagan years, he never once said the word AIDS in any speech. The echoes of voices raised in anger and desperation in meetings and the chants of slogans shouted in actions on the streets of NY are still with me. The experience totally redefined my identity as a gay man. Activism had radicalized me and changed everything from my attitudes about gay life, life in general, my politics and even my appearance. I looked the "ACT UP fag" part that so many men adopted. I wanted people to know that I was a part of what was happening and they could go fuck themselves if they didn't like it. I wasn't going to hide anymore. Only four times was I confronted by the straight boys that came into the Village to harass whoever they thought they could victimize. Two were simple name calling, one was a bottle thrown from a moving car on 7th Ave as the cowards yelled slurs, and the fourth was a scary confrontation on the street with a drunk who also threw a bottle but was too wasted to do much else. I had friends who were beaten, one so badly that he was hospitalized for two weeks. That time was a very different time than the one we live in now. But I very much understand Kelly's story. I lived something like it, too.
That was what seems a lifetime ago. Today, young gay men have no real experience to compare to that time in our history. You can tell them, but it's like someone who fought in WWII trying to tell us what it was really like. You can't know it until you've lived it. Protease inhibitors appeared in '96 and the dying were being resurrected. Today there are over twenty-five drugs that suppress HIV in a myriad of combinations. HIV still carries a potent stigma, but most of the dying in the developed countries has stopped. The fear of infection is still there, but the horrors of a death from complications of HIV infection has receded deep into the distance. It's considered a "manageable" disease. The gaunt and dying no longer are daily visible on the streets. ACT UP demanded treatment and drugs, Queer Nation demanded respect and rights, and a host of other grassroots organizations made a huge difference.
So, here we are in 2014, without a cure but with a manageable illness. Positive men with an undetectable viral load are significantly less likely to pass on the virus (96% less likely). Many gay men are less afraid and take more risks. Infections are still occurring at an alarming rate. Gay for pay men who know their partner has been tested within a day or two of doing a scene are even less afraid. It's not a stranger hook-up with someone in a bar you met when you had too much to drink.
As I said in my first post, BB porn is back because there is a market demand for it, the testing is highly reliable, and guys in their twenties didn't live through the worst of the plague years. The young and not so young still feel a sense of invulnerability in the face of many maladies and general mayhem. Just watch 10 minutes of a Jackass movie.
The porn we are watching is not the porn of yore. I totally understand those members whose memories are scarred by the horrors of the past and their real concerns about and fear of the return of BB sex in porn and real life. But now is not then. There are now options we only dreamed of. We can't make decisions for the young in the context of today's choices. We can only hope that they listen a little and that it just might, might impact a decision they could later regret.
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mikeyank
Long time forumite
Thank you again Stripe for a most thoughtful and educating post. I read it all, but quoted the part that I found most important.
You are right that we are dealing with a different kind of disease today, one that is treatable and manageable. That was then and this is now. That is why I am not adamantly against bareback porn today, as the consequences are so much less devastating today. However I do still feel somewhat uncomfortable and conflicted watching it here on Broke Straight Boys, as I feel a connection with the more popular models as I do not clicking on some random "porn tube" video. So I guess it is more my perception than the reality of the situation. You have made some excellent points Stripe which I sincerely appreciate. Thank you.
Thank you everyone in here for your contributions to this conversation. It seems that the BB issue we discussed with so much passion over a year ago is back to the fore once more. I am absolutely against it, just as I was when this site started doing it. I appreciate very much the fact that those at Broke Straight Boys go out of their way to make sure the models are "clean" before they are allowed to film. That having been said, most of us know that is only the tip of the iceberg. When dealing with a potentially fatal disease and one that will be life changing to anyone who has to be "managed" through it for the rest of their lifespan...there are never any 100% guarantees of protection for those who are sexually active.
I know that many sites switched to BB because they felt it necessary to do so in order to remain competitive with other sites. As we discussed a while back, many of our concerns were not just for the health and safety of the models here themselves. Of course part of Broke Straight Boys's uniqueness is allowing viewers to get to know the models as fellow human beings. So naturally we feel an even stronger bond with them. We have greater concern for their happiness and health than would be the case on most other sites out there. But this is also about the health and safety of viewers who are watching BB scenes being performed regularly (on any site) and figuring that AIDS isn't a real concern anymore.
How many young people are naïve enough to think that if they should happen to get HIV, it will just mean they'll have to go to a doctor and be given some pills to take once a day for the rest of their lives? Younger people especially who did not come of age during the initial body count of the "plague" simply don't know the risks. Do they have the maturity and the courage to have that extremely awkward conversation with potential partners about their past sexual history and their current HIV+ or HIV- status? For grown adults in their 30's 40's and 80's it can still be a very embarrassing and awkward conversation to have with someone. It's not like there is a one-size-fits-all Youtube video tutorial on how to do it. And it's not like we all have lie detector tests to gauge a potential sexual partner's honesty if they have something they're hiding.
None of us want to have the dreaded "Talk" before a sexual encounter with someone new to us. Most of us are smart enough to know it is necessary and we force ourselves to do it anyway. So many of the most vulnerable in our society coming into their sexually active period of their lives (gay or straight) won't even try to have that conversation.
I feel that BB in the porn industry sends the wrong message to our youth. Beautiful and healthy young men (and women) see beautiful healthy young men who are having seemingly very pleasurable unprotected sex on their video monitors...and they want to emulate their favorite performers. We know that for many people the thought processes will not go much further beyond that point.
One thing I will say here is that Broke Straight Boys used to have paragraph of warning and disclosure at the top of the description of any BB scene. It warned of the risks of BB and HIV. It also addressed the mandatory testing that all the Broke Straight Boys models were put through prior to any filming. They have since stopped including it. It seems to me that they should reconsider that and at least put one small paragraph of warning to viewers about the risks of HIV with unprotected sex, and how Broke Straight Boys requires some of the most advanced testing currently available before the models are allowed to film. The warning needn't run to 2 or 3 paragraphs. How about it?
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This thread is rather timely for me because last night on pay-per-view I watched Dallas Buyers Club. All the fear we had around 1985 and onward was brought back to me. Matthew McConaughey won the Oscar for Best Actor. Jared Leto won Best Supporting Actor. The film itself won the Oscar for Best Makeup and Hairstyling. McConaughy and Leto both suffered for their art. Both of them dropped a bunch of weight so they would look skeletal and gravely ill. Jared Leto said he dropped to 114 lbs to play his role. McConaughy said he dropped about 38 lbs to play the lead character.
betudidntknow
BSB Addict
So, "Ask and ye shall receive" best summarizes my "Q & A". My heart felt condolences to those who shared memories of their personal loss. My thanks to those who contributed wisdom and perspectives to this issue. Insight and education based on personal experiences provide valuable tools for all of us to use, and hopefully help us make better, wiser choices in our "sexually active" life.
peterh6308
BSB Addict
Thank you Stripe for your post. I appreciate someone who is informed and educated on subject matter.
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