Reciprocity

[lesit78]

Hi Navelluver, you bring up some excellent -- and very valid -- points here. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
<o></o>
I should always preface my opinions and comments with "This is my opinion only"...and in fact might even add that to my signature as some sort of disclaimer.<o></o>
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Just because I like something or see it a certain way in no way means that I assume my opinion is correct. With opinions, or personal preferences, there really isn’t always a right or wrong answer (even though I may make it seem like I feel my opinion is the best one sometimes, but I don't really feel that way). When I was talking about how I thought you felt regarding reciprocity, I was out of line for not making sure to indicate I was only assuming and guessing and for that I am really sorry. I should know by now that is a really stupid thing to do, assuming you know someone else’s viewpoint when you don’t even know them personally. <o></o>
<o></o>
I think in all porn, especially when it comes to supposed gay for pay porn, it's ALL about perception. The way the viewer perceives the scene and its participants is in direct correlation to the viewer’s enjoyment of it. For example, if I dislike a particular model, I tend to not even watch any of the scenes he is in unless his scene partner is someone I love to watch and just ignore the other guy I don’t like (I know others have said they do the same thing, as several people have mentioned if Jimmy is in a scene they don’t even watch it because they don’t like him). <o></o>
<o></o>
With me as a viewer who is into watching straight guys have sex, the porn really needs to be totally believable in order to be hot. I’d also like to add there are a great many Broke Straight Boys-1 scenes where the boys weren’t at all believably straight nor were they necessarily portrayed to be straight, and in some cases the director left it up to the viewers’ perception. But I still love many of those scenes to this day because they were SIZZLING HOT, the sex was amazing, and you could almost cut the sexual frenzy and lust with a knife including when it wasn’t among all “straight guys”. <o></o>
<o></o>
While all porn doesn’t have to be straight guys getting it on for it to be hot in my opinion, but if they are being presented as straight and that depiction of them is believable, then I want their sex to be believable from “my” point of view (again, we all have different points of view, which for the purpose of argument, please consider everything going forward as understood throughout the rest of this post). I love how Broke Straight Boys mixes it up, gives us some totally believable straight guys like Jimmy, and other guys who say they’re straight but you don’t believe their words anymore than you believe that Leonard Nimoy is Mr. Spock in real life. But Leonard Nimoy plays a very convincing Mr. Spock, 1. Because he literally invented the role and 2. Could you imagine Richard Simmons playing Spock? I certainly couldn’t. I really think the guy who plays Jimmy is the real thing. I think guys like Mick play a convincing straight guy role, but in real life my opinion is that Mick is most likely bi. And then of course you have the “Richard Simmons” types, who say they’re straight and attempt to portray themselves as straight, but to me it’s simply not at all believable and I completely disregard their words and feel as if their entire persona is a script (which I’m not knocking, after all this is porn, but some are more believable to me than others). I mean when you go to Star Trek conventions, many of the participants are wearing Starfleet uniforms. And no, just for the record, I have never gone to a Star Trek convention (LOL). And God help us all if Richard Simmons lands a role as a vulcan in some future Star Trek role! <o></o>
<o></o>
For me personally, kissing while intimate doesn't break the straight guy mold in my mind probably because I did a lot of it with the straight guys I used to play with back in my youth. <o></o>
Anal on the other hand, in my personal experience, was completely forbidden territory. I never even attempted to ask my buddy if I could do him, and I guarantee he would have never allowed me to try it. <o></o>
<o></o>
But in my mind at the time, if I would have given in and allowed him to try to take my virginity in the form of fucking, there is no way I could have continued living the straight lie to him (in my mind). To me, *anal* was crossing the line instead of kissing. The kissing was just something we both did, in the privacy of my apartment and behind closed doors during the passion of experimentation and lust (not to mention oftentimes these were drunken or at least buzzed encounters). It was not an issue for neither him, nor me. <o></o>
<o></o>
In my later years after I came out and actually started dating guys and had boyfriends, I still to this day have never bottomed and still have no desire to attempt it. I have always been strictly a top and I do think that part of me still feels that if a guy bottoms, that makes him "more gay" and somehow "less masculine" even though truthfully I know that's not even based in reality but I still self consciously feel that way when watching porn, I’d say because that’s just my perception and opinion.<o></o>
<o></o>
I really think that reality based porn is comparable to reality based television. In my estimation, throwing the pre filming photo shoots into the mix, I’d say it’s somewhere along the lines of 5% actual reality, 80% pre-planned and/or scripted scenarios, and 19% editing. Which I think is a great thing actually, it’s much hotter to me watching reality based porn than that God awful stuff from the 80’s and 90’s which were even more fake, the acting was horrendous, and the ever-present loud cheesy music was even worse. <o></o>
<o></o>
Navelluver, thank you for bringing these issues to my attention and pointing out that my opinion is definitely not the only one out there regarding reciprocity. I completely respect your opinion, and apologize for assuming that I knew what you meant between the lines when you were discussing reciprocity...which clearly I did not.<o></o>
<o></o>
Thank you for calling me out on it in a very respectful and thought provoking manner, it really made me think!<o></o>

 

[larkster]

WOW! A lot of strong opinions. Mine are simple. Most of the sites MikeYank mention work at getting their models to do "everything" They offer straight men more money for doing what they are hesitant to do. I get off on watching them bite the bullet and really get off when they eventually show some pleasure in doing it. But the pain and humiliation are fun too. I'm not going to pretend I don't like playing God or the Devil here. I would like to be the one tempting them with money, but this is cheaper LOL I want to see a guy get fucked who doesn't want to get fucked, or suck a cock, or rim an ass when he doesn't want too. I get off on it. And if a model is willing to come back for more, that's great! Jimmy doesn't have to bottom, but it would certainly be a turn on for me, if he did. I go through the archives looking for model "progression" So, that's my take on it. Clay keep tempting them for me and I suspect a few others on this site.

 

[mikeyank]

WOW! A lot of strong opinions. Mine are simple. Most of the sites MikeYank mention work at getting their models to do "everything" They offer straight men more money for doing what they are hesitant to do. I get off on watching them bite the bullet and really get off when they eventually show some pleasure in doing it. But the pain and humiliation are fun too. I'm not going to pretend I don't like playing God or the Devil here. I would like to be the one tempting them with money, but this is cheaper LOL I want to see a guy get fucked who doesn't want to get fucked, or suck a cock, or rim an ass when he doesn't want too. I get off on it. And if a model is willing to come back for more, that's great! Jimmy doesn't have to bottom, but it would certainly be a turn on for me, if he did. I go through the archives looking for model "progression" So, that's my take on it. Clay keep tempting them for me and I suspect a few others on this site.

Hi Larkster. I read your new thread where you asked for comments on your take on this. As this is a porn site, and we all have our own fetishes and some of us are into what may be considered more "kinky" sex scenes, I totally understand your desires, and while I don't always share your desire to see a straight guy do things that he doesn't want to do, I do understand your fetish as well.

You are definitely not alone in this desire, as one of the Jimmy detractors on this site, has recently posted twice that he would like to see Jimmy get fucked hard by the newcomer here with the huge cock, Cliff.

I consider this a fantasy site with some very straight guys, many guys with bisexual leanings, and some gay guys who play straight, and I never worry about a model being physically hurt during a sex scene, as it is all in a controlled environment, and a model can say "Stop" at any point and the scene will end. So if you get off on watching a straight guy performing a "distasteful" sex act, and it turns you on, more power to you.

We pay our money here to get turned on by the sex being presented, and I am all in favor of there being a wide variety of types of models, and scenes, to turn on as large a segment of the audience as possible, as long as it all fits into the basic parameters of the site.

Thanks for presenting your take on this, Larkster.

 

[angelone]

Larkster,
Isn't this the premise of Broke Straight Boys, that Broke Straight Boys are seduced into doing gay sex for money? What they're willing to do is dependent on the amount of money that is offered or willing to accept for it. There are models that wouldn't do an act for whatever amount of money. But once they have, well that's when the story begins and the drama of a young straight experiencing gay sex unfolds. And people like myself watch glued to the screen waiting for a cry of pain or an expression of discomfort when that big long penis penetrates his virgin straight ass - oh, the excitement!

 

[cumrag27]

One of lifeHaving a discordant view

WOW! A lot of strong opinions. Mine are simple. Most of the sites MikeYank mention work at getting their models to do "everything" They offer straight men more money for doing what they are hesitant to do. I get off on watching them bite the bullet and really get off when they eventually show some pleasure in doing it. But the pain and humiliation are fun too. I'm not going to pretend I don't like playing God or the Devil here. I would like to be the one tempting them with money, but this is cheaper LOL I want to see a guy get fucked who doesn't want to get fucked, or suck a cock, or rim an ass when he doesn't want too. I get off on it. And if a model is willing to come back for more, that's great! Jimmy doesn't have to bottom, but it would certainly be a turn on for me, if he did. I go through the archives looking for model "progression" So, that's my take on it. Clay keep tempting them for me and I suspect a few others on this site.

Dear Larkster,

I too respect your right to determine what best gets you off. Regardless of the underlying theme of Broke Straight Boys, it has never been one of my fetishes seeing straight boys do gay sex scenes. I feel that when one talks of the labels both straight and gay, there is almost always some degree of curiosity within as to whether the grass is really greener on the other side or not. I subscribe to allowing everybody float freely between the two extremes, should they have any interest. Likewise, one will find out that most fantasies exist in one's mind and when translated to actions involving others, there is little probability to achieve the perfect 1-to-1 correlation between reality and fantasy.

Personally, I have never identified as been anything other than Gay but, based on the relative rarity of gays to straight boys in one's immediate environment, all of my past sex partners have identified as being straight. This in itself would not preclude me having a gay partner, however. So much of life is based on "availability" as opposed to "taking specific aim at one group or the other". However, someday in my dream-like fantasy world, I hope to find that magical "perfect match". I realize this may never be realized in my lifetime.

I differ with you that anyone should deliberately want to watch and get off watching anybody in "pain and humiliation", unless this is intended as "revenge" for how they had been abused by them before. While this view may have no legal or moral justification, revenge is almost instinctual in nature. I don't want to be "moralistic " here as I certainly am not some saint. I guess I would never expect someone to treat me any differently than I would have them treat me.

Of course, fantasies are normally not something one would necessarily want or fully achieve in real life. After all, I might fantasize about the most beautifully, perfectly developed body and yet be personally unwilling to exert myself to achieve something similar in real life. Fantasied ask the question "What if?" as opposed to asking "What is?" The realization of a fantasy won't usually match up exactly with the original fantasy before adding the human element into the equation. In this materialistic world we find ourselves in, I have frequently thought that I would find happiness owning a certain object. However, the moment the object becomes mine, it no longer has the same value as it had prior to attaining it! Disappointingly, the same is true with fantasies. It is like having the "high-maintenance spouse or partner" that is never satiated with having only so much. They always want more and more. Another way of looking at this phenomenon is having the mindset of always looking for progression in a model's boundaries being pushed. Sad to say especially for you, Larkster, but we all have our own limits beyond which no progression will be made. I guess you might view this as one of life's cruel jokes for our always wanting more.

Sincerely,


Stimpy

 

[larkster]

Thanks guys for replying. I don't have a fetish for seeing straight identified boys have gay sex as it is not requisite for me to have sexual gratification. Fantasy fits better. One of many. I just wanted to point out that these sites are predicated on tempting straight guys who "need" money to do things they would not "normally" do. I think it is important for me to be honest with you and the models about my position. Otherwise, I feel I would be being disingenuous with you all. Thanks for weighing in.

 

[cumrag27]

It's ALL about perception

Hi Navelluver, you bring up some excellent -- and very valid -- points here. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
<o></o>
I should always preface my opinions and comments with "This is my opinion only"...and in fact might even add that to my signature as some sort of disclaimer.<o></o>
<o></o>
Just because I like something or see it a certain way in no way means that I assume my opinion is correct. With opinions, or personal preferences, there really isn’t always a right or wrong answer (even though I may make it seem like I feel my opinion is the best one sometimes, but I don't really feel that way). When I was talking about how I thought you felt regarding reciprocity, I was out of line for not making sure to indicate I was only assuming and guessing and for that I am really sorry. I should know by now that is a really stupid thing to do, assuming you know someone else’s viewpoint when you don’t even know them personally. <o></o>
<o></o>
I think in all porn, especially when it comes to supposed gay for pay porn, it's ALL about perception. The way the viewer perceives the scene and its participants is in direct correlation to the viewer’s enjoyment of it. For example, if I dislike a particular model, I tend to not even watch any of the scenes he is in unless his scene partner is someone I love to watch and just ignore the other guy I don’t like (I know others have said they do the same thing, as several people have mentioned if Jimmy is in a scene they don’t even watch it because they don’t like him). <o></o>
<o></o>
With me as a viewer who is into watching straight guys have sex, the porn really needs to be totally believable in order to be hot. I’d also like to add there are a great many Broke Straight Boys-1 scenes where the boys weren’t at all believably straight nor were they necessarily portrayed to be straight, and in some cases the director left it up to the viewers’ perception. But I still love many of those scenes to this day because they were SIZZLING HOT, the sex was amazing, and you could almost cut the sexual frenzy and lust with a knife including when it wasn’t among all “straight guys”. <o></o>
<o></o>
While all porn doesn’t have to be straight guys getting it on for it to be hot in my opinion, but if they are being presented as straight and that depiction of them is believable, then I want their sex to be believable from “my” point of view (again, we all have different points of view, which for the purpose of argument, please consider everything going forward as understood throughout the rest of this post). I love how Broke Straight Boys mixes it up, gives us some totally believable straight guys like Jimmy, and other guys who say they’re straight but you don’t believe their words anymore than you believe that Leonard Nimoy is Mr. Spock in real life. But Leonard Nimoy plays a very convincing Mr. Spock, 1. Because he literally invented the role and 2. Could you imagine Richard Simmons playing Spock? I certainly couldn’t. I really think the guy who plays Jimmy is the real thing. I think guys like Mick play a convincing straight guy role, but in real life my opinion is that Mick is most likely bi. And then of course you have the “Richard Simmons” types, who say they’re straight and attempt to portray themselves as straight, but to me it’s simply not at all believable and I completely disregard their words and feel as if their entire persona is a script (which I’m not knocking, after all this is porn, but some are more believable to me than others). I mean when you go to Star Trek conventions, many of the participants are wearing Starfleet uniforms. And no, just for the record, I have never gone to a Star Trek convention (LOL). And God help us all if Richard Simmons lands a role as a vulcan in some future Star Trek role! <o></o>
<o></o>
For me personally, kissing while intimate doesn't break the straight guy mold in my mind probably because I did a lot of it with the straight guys I used to play with back in my youth. <o></o>
Anal on the other hand, in my personal experience, was completely forbidden territory. I never even attempted to ask my buddy if I could do him, and I guarantee he would have never allowed me to try it. <o></o>
<o></o>
But in my mind at the time, if I would have given in and allowed him to try to take my virginity in the form of fucking, there is no way I could have continued living the straight lie to him (in my mind). To me, *anal* was crossing the line instead of kissing. The kissing was just something we both did, in the privacy of my apartment and behind closed doors during the passion of experimentation and lust (not to mention oftentimes these were drunken or at least buzzed encounters). It was not an issue for neither him, nor me. <o></o>
<o></o>
In my later years after I came out and actually started dating guys and had boyfriends, I still to this day have never bottomed and still have no desire to attempt it. I have always been strictly a top and I do think that part of me still feels that if a guy bottoms, that makes him "more gay" and somehow "less masculine" even though truthfully I know that's not even based in reality but I still self consciously feel that way when watching porn, I’d say because that’s just my perception and opinion.<o></o>
<o></o>
I really think that reality based porn is comparable to reality based television. In my estimation, throwing the pre filming photo shoots into the mix, I’d say it’s somewhere along the lines of 5% actual reality, 80% pre-planned and/or scripted scenarios, and 19% editing. Which I think is a great thing actually, it’s much hotter to me watching reality based porn than that God awful stuff from the 80’s and 90’s which were even more fake, the acting was horrendous, and the ever-present loud cheesy music was even worse. <o></o>
<o></o>
Navelluver, thank you for bringing these issues to my attention and pointing out that my opinion is definitely not the only one out there regarding reciprocity. I completely respect your opinion, and apologize for assuming that I knew what you meant between the lines when you were discussing reciprocity...which clearly I did not.<o></o>
<o></o>
Thank you for calling me out on it in a very respectful and thought provoking manner, it really made me think!<o></o>

Dear Abe,

You just proved once again how very valuable you are to the overall health of the forum and to me with your rational, but calm, methodical approach to a previously sticky subject, that is in my opinion! I have to slightly disagree with you about the suitability of having Richard Simmons as some futuristic super hero, but again that is in my opinion. To his followers, I am sure he is their bronzed and curly-headed tanktopped "super hero" capable of gyrating his hips and arms to the beat of any golden oldie. These guys believe he is the genuine article - straight boy come to restore them to healthy living through exercise.

When it comes to passionate b/j', kissing, rim jobs, or anal sex, there are no concrete absolutes that precludes things from becoming too predictable and/or boring. We all vary from day to day and somedays we may be more or less passionate, depending on our moods. Paying models a given sum does not lock in their passionate side, as it more likely operates in the opposite direction, making what could be more readily passionate, harder to achieve convincingly knowing it is merely another job. Some people live their lives to please others, like Colin, and others aren't concerned whether they please members or not. Its just a job to them and little more. Personally, I am greatful that that the majority of Broke Straight Boys members chose to praise Colin for his sincere efforts. I appreciate Colin for being so very expressive in his willingness to contribute to the forum. In my opinion, I find him a complete joy as a Broke Straight Boys model. Likewise, I find Abe, among many other expressive forumites, to be a complete joy to read thoughtful comments on the forum.

We have a much more vibrant forum now than in the recent past. That is attributable to those who are willing to invest their time contributing their opinions for the forum. Lets take advantage of the revitalization to be supportive and encouraging of those many members who have yet to learn the many joys coming from fuller participation in the forum.


Sincerely appreciative,


Stimpy

 

[lesit78]

Dear Abe,

You just proved once again how very valuable you are to the overall health of the forum and to me with your rational, but calm, methodical approach to a previously sticky subject, that is in my opinion! I have to slightly disagree with you about the suitability of having Richard Simmons as some futuristic super hero, but again that is in my opinion. To his followers, I am sure he is their bronzed and curly-headed tanktopped "super hero" capable of gyrating his hips and arms to the beat of any golden oldie. These guys believe he is the genuine article - straight boy come to restore them to healthy living through exercise.

When it comes to passionate b/j', kissing, rim jobs, or anal sex, there are no concrete absolutes that precludes things from becoming too predictable and/or boring. We all vary from day to day and somedays we may be more or less passionate, depending on our moods. Paying models a given sum does not lock in their passionate side, as it more likely operates in the opposite direction, making what could be more readily passionate, harder to achieve convincingly knowing it is merely another job. Some people live their lives to please others, like Colin, and others aren't concerned whether they please members or not. Its just a job to them and little more. Personally, I am greatful that that the majority of Broke Straight Boys members chose to praise Colin for his sincere efforts. I appreciate Colin for being so very expressive in his willingness to contribute to the forum. In my opinion, I find him a complete joy as a Broke Straight Boys model. Likewise, I find Abe, among many other expressive forumites, to be a complete joy to read thoughtful comments on the forum.

We have a much more vibrant forum now than in the recent past. That is attributable to those who are willing to invest their time contributing their opinions for the forum. Lets take advantage of the revitalization to be supportive and encouraging of those many members who have yet to learn the many joys coming from fuller participation in the forum.


Sincerely appreciative,


Stimpy

Thank you Stimpy, I have followed the lead of others and have placed various forumites on my "ignore" list who are regularly provocative and post various things for the sole reason of agitating and annoying other members. I have found that makes it less annoying, and if everyone does that the people who post solely to annoy others will find themselves invisible and voiceless on the forum...except to those who can still view their posts.

I have nothing whatsoever about disagreeing and discussing just about any issue, but if you just randomly talk nonsense for no reason other than annoying others, I won't be seeing anymore of your posts because I'll put you on my ignore list so fast that you become non-existant to me.

You are certainly not one of those people Stimpy, and I would never put someone on my ignore list unless they prove they're just out to cause problems.

When it comes to porn, tastes are so widely diverse it's not even funny so it would be 100% impossible to satisfy everyones' tastes at any given time.

Heck, there are various scenes that may "do it for me" today...but by next week I will have moved on to something else lol.

 

[cumrag27]

I understand completely Abe

Thank you Stimpy, I have followed the lead of others and have placed various forumites on my "ignore" list who are regularly provocative and post various things for the sole reason of agitating and annoying other members. I have found that makes it less annoying, and if everyone does that the people who post solely to annoy others will find themselves invisible and voiceless on the forum...except to those who can still view their posts.

I have nothing whatsoever about disagreeing and discussing just about any issue, but if you just randomly talk nonsense for no reason other than annoying others, I won't be seeing anymore of your posts because I'll put you on my ignore list so fast that you become non-existant to me.

You are certainly not one of those people Stimpy, and I would never put someone on my ignore list unless they prove they're just out to cause problems.

When it comes to porn, tastes are so widely diverse it's not even funny so it would be 100% impossible to satisfy everyones' tastes at any given time.

Heck, there are various scenes that may "do it for me" today...but by next week I will have moved on to something else lol.

Dearest Abe,

I know what you mean. I currently have one member from the South I used to talk with regularly trading stories back and forth 6 or more months ago. We even talked on Yahoo Messenger frequently until I was fooled by him into thinking he was in the process of having a stroke, stating one side of his face was drooping and his body would no longer move. I begged and begged him to call an ambulance and he still resisted. Finally, he agreed I could call him throughout the night to check on him. I did so only sleeping with one eye open.

When I called him in the morning around 8 AM, I got no answer. Naturally i worried about him until the next night when I returned from Choir Practice around 9PM. Then, when I returned home, the phone was ringing as I was getting into my house. We connected grateful to hear his voice again. I asked what they said at the emergency room about his paralysis. He bad no immediate answer and then finally stated he went to work as usual that morning. He had a lot of things to get caught up on and didn't have time to see a doctor. Naturally I was LIVID and, ever since then, he has remained on my ignor list and I never plan to deal with him again.

Sad how things end some times! None of the "drama" was necessary.


Sincerely,


Stimpy