Are you inviting some of my friends to leave to another site? Go and wash your mouth with soap!
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"Paul gives Jason the ride of his life!"
- Thread starter cumrag27
- Start date
Are you inviting some of my friends to leave to another site? Go and wash your mouth with soap!
True there is no valid reason to harass bareback lovers.
However this thread happens to be about bareback: "Paul gives Jason the ride of his life!"
And this time it's you bareback lovers that are harassing and posting off topic. Even if it's thread number 4. So what? Take your own advice to heart: if you don't like it, skip it...
I had a fine conversation going with Stimpy, till Arckangel started bashing... Don't do to others that you don't want others to do to you.
However this thread happens to be about bareback: "Paul gives Jason the ride of his life!"
And this time it's you bareback lovers that are harassing and posting off topic. Even if it's thread number 4. So what? Take your own advice to heart: if you don't like it, skip it...
I had a fine conversation going with Stimpy, till Arckangel started bashing... Don't do to others that you don't want others to do to you.
mikeyank
Long time forumite
There does appear to be a certain giddy or celebratory "tone" to the posts of the fans of bareback sex, which does not seem terribly inclusive to the genuine concerns of those of us who feel the model's safety is more important to us than what "90 percent" of gay porn fans who want to jerk off to scenes of raw assholes filled with cum.
And Mark is the owner of this site, and he says that he is going to limit the number of threads on this subject and will combine any new one's to existing threads, so apparently the battle is over and the fans of bareback, and "cream pies" have won. So fans of watching a dick reinserted into a gaping asshole pushing the cum back in will be able to kick back and jerk off and enjoy the action, without having to read the concerns of those of us "whiners" who are trying to spoil their erotic pleasure.
But somehow I can't get the image out of my head of Nero fiddling while Rome burned.
Attachments
Let from now on forum reviews of bareback video's no longer get harassed. And let those long term members that always defended condom sex speak out on a separate thread; like this one. Then nobody needs to shut up.
There a the romantic fans, condom sex appreciators, and bareback lovers. We do not have to agree, and can have different opinions. Let's at least try to get along and show respect towards each other.
There a the romantic fans, condom sex appreciators, and bareback lovers. We do not have to agree, and can have different opinions. Let's at least try to get along and show respect towards each other.
Milla79
BSB Addict
Let from now on forum reviews of bareback video's no longer get harassed. And let those long term members that always defended condom sex speak out on a separate thread; like this one. Then nobody needs to shut up.
There a the romantic fans, condom sex appreciators, and bareback lovers. We do not have to agree, and can have different opinions. Let's at least try to get along and show respect towards each other.
I couldn't agree more. I hope everybody will see this and agree to it.
LET'S GET ALONG and RESPECT EACH OTHER.
Buckeye1
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Let from now on forum reviews of bareback video's no longer get harassed. And let those long term members that always defended condom sex speak out on a separate thread; like this one. Then nobody needs to shut up.
There a the romantic fans, condom sex appreciators, and bareback lovers. We do not have to agree, and can have different opinions. Let's at least try to get along and show respect towards each other.
Great idea, Robert. Will you marry me? Oh no, we already tried that one, didn't we? Just so you know, I'm almost over you. lol
cumrag27
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When in Rome, do we really want to do what the
Dear Mikeyank and fellow forumites,
Thanks for the graphic representation of Nero's Rome! With this in mind, I have to wonder what is that "overwhelming stinch in the air" heading our way? Mike, do you smell it too! It seems to have cum to visit a spell(haunting the Broke Straight Boys website like an uninvited "mother-in-law"). Historically speaking, with all the AIDS concerns, Broke Straight Boys led the fight for protected anal sex as one of its routine practices with only two early exceptions.
Somehow, in this more modern day, a little piece of see-through latex has become the latest "casualty of war" on our popular site, causing a
of grief, mental anguish, and bad feelings in and amongst all three camps on the forum. Doesn't it remind you somewhat of the last time a fire was burning in Rome while Nero was caught redhanded not 'minding the store" as was his sworn duty. Instead, he was seen fiddling about (fanning the flames) in all of Rome"? This was just received over the "Aquaduct Broadband Network" from the "Roman City/State Inquirer" reporting "unsubstantiated sightings" of..."Nero: last seen fiddling about with someone's butt (so as not to look too foolish and generally appear out of step with the current practices of the day), intent on "keeping up with the other Porn Gods at all costs".
These "state of the art" - Porn Professionals were convinced they were onto a good thang-or-two by "checking their list-twice, to see who has been naughty and nice. Those "good ole boys", fortunate enough to still be modeling for Broke Straight Boys, were given a "special treat" of an extra-helping of all the available DNA, making double-sure that the entire cum load was neatly and painstakingly packed in their recently-made-bare, vulnerable body cavity, thereby maximizing the implicit personal health threat for all to see and, at the same time, peaking the already desensitized Broke Straight Boys follower's interests, who were all "safely kept away at arms-length in their own comfort zone, tucked away in their own risk-free environment.
Such sporting fair would have certainly mesmerized the ancient Colosseum patrons in attendance following the life-or-death spectacle featured at their grand "Roman Colosseum", no doubt! After all, they paid for and were fully accustomed to seeing others risk their life, day-in and day-out, fighting lions or overpowering gladiators specifically trained to fuck others until they finally dropped from exhaustion! Then, slowly the cadaver cart handlers slowly worked their magic collecting the lifeless, bloody bodies cluttering-up the arena so! With the telltale squeak, squeak, squeak of the cart's slowly turning wheels, life would soon enough return again, as if nothing too significant had just taken place. For all their flamboyance, the Romans, after all, really appreciated puttiing on one hell of a good show, most of all!
Some even say of the Romans, the show was more important than life itself!
Can we, at the very minimum, find within ourself enough objectivity and personal conviction to see what is just under our own nose, serving as the most loyal of friends would do, looking first of all after their their own safety, like any brother worth their weight would do? That is all that I ask of you! Sincerely not joking this time!
Respectfully,
Stimpy
Dear Mikeyank and fellow forumites,
Thanks for the graphic representation of Nero's Rome! With this in mind, I have to wonder what is that "overwhelming stinch in the air" heading our way? Mike, do you smell it too! It seems to have cum to visit a spell(haunting the Broke Straight Boys website like an uninvited "mother-in-law"). Historically speaking, with all the AIDS concerns, Broke Straight Boys led the fight for protected anal sex as one of its routine practices with only two early exceptions.
Somehow, in this more modern day, a little piece of see-through latex has become the latest "casualty of war" on our popular site, causing a
of grief, mental anguish, and bad feelings in and amongst all three camps on the forum. Doesn't it remind you somewhat of the last time a fire was burning in Rome while Nero was caught redhanded not 'minding the store" as was his sworn duty. Instead, he was seen fiddling about (fanning the flames) in all of Rome"? This was just received over the "Aquaduct Broadband Network" from the "Roman City/State Inquirer" reporting "unsubstantiated sightings" of..."Nero: last seen fiddling about with someone's butt (so as not to look too foolish and generally appear out of step with the current practices of the day), intent on "keeping up with the other Porn Gods at all costs".These "state of the art" - Porn Professionals were convinced they were onto a good thang-or-two by "checking their list-twice, to see who has been naughty and nice. Those "good ole boys", fortunate enough to still be modeling for Broke Straight Boys, were given a "special treat" of an extra-helping of all the available DNA, making double-sure that the entire cum load was neatly and painstakingly packed in their recently-made-bare, vulnerable body cavity, thereby maximizing the implicit personal health threat for all to see and, at the same time, peaking the already desensitized Broke Straight Boys follower's interests, who were all "safely kept away at arms-length in their own comfort zone, tucked away in their own risk-free environment.
Such sporting fair would have certainly mesmerized the ancient Colosseum patrons in attendance following the life-or-death spectacle featured at their grand "Roman Colosseum", no doubt! After all, they paid for and were fully accustomed to seeing others risk their life, day-in and day-out, fighting lions or overpowering gladiators specifically trained to fuck others until they finally dropped from exhaustion! Then, slowly the cadaver cart handlers slowly worked their magic collecting the lifeless, bloody bodies cluttering-up the arena so! With the telltale squeak, squeak, squeak of the cart's slowly turning wheels, life would soon enough return again, as if nothing too significant had just taken place. For all their flamboyance, the Romans, after all, really appreciated puttiing on one hell of a good show, most of all!
Some even say of the Romans, the show was more important than life itself!
Can we, at the very minimum, find within ourself enough objectivity and personal conviction to see what is just under our own nose, serving as the most loyal of friends would do, looking first of all after their their own safety, like any brother worth their weight would do? That is all that I ask of you! Sincerely not joking this time!
Respectfully,
Stimpy
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cumrag27
BSB Addict
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2010
- Posts
- 2,776
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- 1
When in Rome, do we really want to do as the Romans do?
Dear Mikeyank and fellow forumites,
Thanks for the graphic representation of Nero's Rome! With this in mind, I have to wonder what is that "overwhelming stinch in the air" heading our way? Mike, do you smell it too! It seems to have cum to visit a spell(haunting the Broke Straight Boys website like an uninvited "mother-in-law"). Historically speaking, with all the AIDS concerns, Broke Straight Boys led the fight for protected anal sex as one of its routine practices with only two early exceptions.
Somehow, in this more modern day, a little piece of see-through latex has become the latest "casualty of war" on our popular site, causing a of grief, mental anguish, and bad feelings in and amongst all three camps on the forum. Doesn't it remind you somewhat of the last time a fire was burning in Rome while Nero was caught redhanded not 'minding the store" as was his sworn duty. Instead, he was seen fiddling about (fanning the flames) in all of Rome"? This was just received over the "Aquaduct Broadband Network" from the "Roman City/State Inquirer" reporting "unsubstantiated sightings" of..."Nero: last seen fiddling about with someone's butt (so as not to look too foolish and generally appear out of step with the current practices of the day), intent on "keeping up with the other Porn Gods at all costs".
These "state of the art" - Porn Professionals were convinced they were onto a good thang-or-two by "checking their list-twice, to see who has been naughty and nice. Those "good ole boys", fortunate enough to still be modeling for Broke Straight Boys, were given a "special treat" of an extra-helping of all the available DNA, making double-sure that the entire cum load was neatly and painstakingly packed in their recently-made-bare, vulnerable body cavity, thereby maximizing the implicit personal health threat for all to see and, at the same time, peaking the already desensitized Broke Straight Boys follower's interests, who were all "safely kept away at arms-length in their own comfort zone, tucked away in their own risk-free environment.
Such sporting fare would have certainly mesmerized the ancient Colosseum patrons in attendance following the life-or-death spectacle featured at their grand "Roman Colosseum", no doubt! After all, they paid for and were fully accustomed to seeing others risk their life, day-in and day-out, fighting lions or overpowering gladiators specifically trained to fuck others until they finally dropped from exhaustion! Then, slowly the cadaver cart handlers worked their magic collecting the lifeless, bloody bodies cluttering-up the arena so! With the telltale squeak, squeak, squeak of the cart's slowly turning wheels, life would soon enough return again, as if nothing too significant had just taken place. For all their flamboyance, the Romans, after all, really appreciated puttiing on one hell of a good show, most of all!
Some even say of the Romans, the show was more important than life itself!
Can we, at the very minimum, find within ourself enough objectivity and personal conviction to see what is just under our own nose, serving as the most loyal of friends would do, looking first of all after their own safety, like any good brother worth their weight would do? That is all that I ask of you! Sincerely not joking this time!
Respectfully,
Stimpy
Dear Mikeyank and fellow forumites,
Thanks for the graphic representation of Nero's Rome! With this in mind, I have to wonder what is that "overwhelming stinch in the air" heading our way? Mike, do you smell it too! It seems to have cum to visit a spell(haunting the Broke Straight Boys website like an uninvited "mother-in-law"). Historically speaking, with all the AIDS concerns, Broke Straight Boys led the fight for protected anal sex as one of its routine practices with only two early exceptions.
Somehow, in this more modern day, a little piece of see-through latex has become the latest "casualty of war" on our popular site, causing a
of grief, mental anguish, and bad feelings in and amongst all three camps on the forum. Doesn't it remind you somewhat of the last time a fire was burning in Rome while Nero was caught redhanded not 'minding the store" as was his sworn duty. Instead, he was seen fiddling about (fanning the flames) in all of Rome"? This was just received over the "Aquaduct Broadband Network" from the "Roman City/State Inquirer" reporting "unsubstantiated sightings" of..."Nero: last seen fiddling about with someone's butt (so as not to look too foolish and generally appear out of step with the current practices of the day), intent on "keeping up with the other Porn Gods at all costs".These "state of the art" - Porn Professionals were convinced they were onto a good thang-or-two by "checking their list-twice, to see who has been naughty and nice. Those "good ole boys", fortunate enough to still be modeling for Broke Straight Boys, were given a "special treat" of an extra-helping of all the available DNA, making double-sure that the entire cum load was neatly and painstakingly packed in their recently-made-bare, vulnerable body cavity, thereby maximizing the implicit personal health threat for all to see and, at the same time, peaking the already desensitized Broke Straight Boys follower's interests, who were all "safely kept away at arms-length in their own comfort zone, tucked away in their own risk-free environment.
Such sporting fare would have certainly mesmerized the ancient Colosseum patrons in attendance following the life-or-death spectacle featured at their grand "Roman Colosseum", no doubt! After all, they paid for and were fully accustomed to seeing others risk their life, day-in and day-out, fighting lions or overpowering gladiators specifically trained to fuck others until they finally dropped from exhaustion! Then, slowly the cadaver cart handlers worked their magic collecting the lifeless, bloody bodies cluttering-up the arena so! With the telltale squeak, squeak, squeak of the cart's slowly turning wheels, life would soon enough return again, as if nothing too significant had just taken place. For all their flamboyance, the Romans, after all, really appreciated puttiing on one hell of a good show, most of all!
Some even say of the Romans, the show was more important than life itself!
Can we, at the very minimum, find within ourself enough objectivity and personal conviction to see what is just under our own nose, serving as the most loyal of friends would do, looking first of all after their own safety, like any good brother worth their weight would do? That is all that I ask of you! Sincerely not joking this time!
Respectfully,
Stimpy
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Buckeye everybody has seen you chatting up Flint and Graham! Using the same old charm romance just to get your hands in their pants...
Last edited:
Ambivalent
BSB Addict
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2009
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Ah, Dear Jamostar ~
I must sincerely apologize, in advance, for any angst or offence I might cause you, in what follows. We aren't personally acquainted, and, for all I know, you are doubtless a very nice person! And I am not wanting to treat you as LESS than the nice person that I am sure you are, or as some sort of "straw man" ~ all I should like to do is set some of your propositions, alight ;-)))) I really did think I was all finished, and done, with the whole "bareback" subject, but since you waved the red rag, in front of the bull. . . you've convinced me that a couple of further clauses need to be appended, to the previous discourse on this subject ;-)
Jamo, some fights are worth fighting; and some points are worth making; not out of any ad hominem prejudice or antipathy; but sheerly because of the significance of what is at stake, you see. And you have, Jamo, adduced some SUBSTANTIVE propositions which cry out for a modest rejoinder; therefore, a rejoinder shall be given to you ~ in the spirit of the greatest respect, I trust you shall both know, and realize. (And I thank you for your patience.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr53o-wbaAw ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi4IPXgnIyA ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJCoIHnSxgs
And, Jamo, as a preliminary (but not entirely idle) metaphorical, and metaphysical, reflection: I submit to you that life itself is a little like the ancient, atavistic, spectacle, of the BULLFIGHT. An arena in which each of us is brought face-to-face, each and every day, with danger, and RISK, and in which the outcome is never ENTIRELY certain. An arena in which each of us hopes he will emerge as the handsome and courageous Jairo Miguel, triumphant and LAUDED; but in which the opposite outcome is always possible, and lurking.
I'll give you a small hint as to my disposition, Jamo, before embarking upon my more fulsome exposition of this subject. While I agree with both Ernest Hemingway, and with Generalissimo Francisco Franco, that the bullfight is at once manly, noble, bracing, and supremely exciting, I ALSO think it is not quite consonant with the highest ideals, of civilized society. Rather, I suppose that real civilization consists chiefly in the relinquishment of a little excitement, in favour of a great deal more LOVE, for one's fellow-man.
Should you and your friends have ears, by all means, let them hear.
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This debate, about barebacking, has been long and heated, and (let us be clear) shall ALWAYS occasion conflict - as all matters that prompt sincere and passionate differences of opinion, always do.
Though I am sure that, from sheer fatigue, the intensity of the battle will, in time, flicker, and wane, I know that the INNER struggles and hurts this rupture has caused, will go on and on. I am sure that the tone of conversation shall return to its normal cordiality; and all things will SEEM to have returned to "normal". But, in reality, they shall not, and will not. For, the "new normal" is something which will trouble many of us, as long as we live. And, I'll explicate.
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THE FACT IS, Jamo, and others who have made this point in the recent past are quite correct (and I ought to be fair, I don't mean to single out Jamo entirely ~ he was simply COURAGEOUS enough to say openly what many others feel, and for this, he deserves great credit: honesty is always admirable): THIS PARTICULAR battle is over. As it were, "Das lied ist aus." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3F-LSdWQX8
So far as I am aware, there is no longer ANY quality gay site, in the world, to which one might subscribe, which does NOT include unprotected sex as a regular staple of its offerings. (I am not aware of even a BAD gay site which offers solely protected sex, in its repertoire. So, that moment in the gay story is over: Jamo and his friends have triumphed, conclusively, and EVERYWHERE.
And, unless one were to profess absolute celibacy, and relinquish the pleasures of the flesh altogether (sitting in some lonely cell, reading the works of St. Augustine, or ancient Buddhist koans) there is literally nowhere to go, for anyone who would prefer to see the lads who entertain us protected, in the way we always thought they ought to be. I would say to Jamo, and others of his ilk, as you celebrate your victory, and call on those who feel angst about it, to simply QUIT the sites (and abandon all the models, and the friends they love): this is not an awfully charitable response.
I suppose I shall do my best to be a gracious LOSER ~ since I (and others who think as I do, have clearly lost this battle, and have no choice): but - are the victors now prepared to be gracious WINNERS, and cease to GLOAT, over the victory they've won? More to the point, are they SO CERTAIN, that they are RIGHT??? Aye, there's the rub, and there's the question that will catch the conscience of. . . anyone who HAS a conscience: which, in today's consumer society, is no longer a majority. (If it ever was.)
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From MY side of this debate (though I have friends on BOTH sides of the fence, and love them dearly, on EITHER side) I will READILY concede that, much further wringing of hands, and gnashing of teeth, is futile. And even worse than futile, as (at least for now) such angst disrupts the fun, and sheer CONVIVIALITY of sites like this.
And I'll admit, I am one of those to BLAME, for this! All of us, on this side, have flogged this horse so hard, and DESPERATELY, it's almost time to think about dismounting ;-)
Another KIND of comment I dislike, from MY side of this debate, is this: "I CAN'T respect this model any longer - X, or Y, or Z - because he's chosen to submit to this regime, without conventional protection." Well - really, guys? WHAT friend has ANY of us EVER had, whom we'd stop loving, just because he took a risk we wouldn't? THAT is NOT how friendship WORKS.
Because, if you have a friend, and love him (or her) ~ the very DEFINTION of such friendship is simply that you LOVE THAT PERSON, through thick and thin. Of course you give them your advice, and best ideas, but if they disagree, and do something different, you don't EXILE them. You JUST KEEP LOVING THEM.
AND, as I have said before, I DO believe that Broke Straight Boys is offering models (and insisting on) the best tests possible (which is VERY good) and in SOME cases, may help models even MORE than condoms, in terms of safety. Hopefully, in MOST cases (as long as the regime is TIGHT and STRICT) as much as condoms. (And condoms, though they're good, are not infallible.)
So, it's certainly MY hope (I'm sure yours too) that ALL our models will come through their Broke Straight Boys experience, just fine. And, I DO believe that Broke Straight Boys is doing its very BEST, in this regard. (And I really, really, thank them for this.)
*Though, I would like to see each model who appears here vaccinated ALSO, for hepatitis "A", and "B". If we had an assurance that this were done as well, I'd feel much, much, better. (For the record, because my boyfriend likes to rim, I am vaccinated for BOTH.)
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ON THE OTHER SIDE. . . .
It's been argued in this space, before, that bareback sex on this (and other sites) has NOT been undertaken in response to clear requests from members. I agree with JAMO - this is something MEMBERS have requested, here and everywhere: and now they've gotten it, in spades. COMMERCE is the impulse driving this and every other site: if people didn't bay and cry for bareback CONSTANTLY ~ here and on CF, SC, and Bel Ami and EVERYWHERE - it wouldn't happen.
MONEY TALKS, SUBSCRIPTIONS talk, and money won this battle. Things have, I think, changed a lot, since complex retroviral therapy was introduced. Kids today think HIV is like a headache ~ take two aspirin, and everything is FINE. They like bareback sex because they are not afraid of illness, like some older gay men are - they know that "condomless" FEELS good, and so they want to SEE it, and DEMAND to see it. (Even though, on film, they don't see much.)
As I've said before, a bareback scene and condomed scene, can hardly be DISCERNED from one another, visually. The cock is buried, in either one of them. But kids demand the FANTASY. So many of them, like little matadors, DEMAND. . . THE. . . RISK. They're not content with simple BEAUTY; they want RISK.
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And there's still risk, of notable extent. Not because our friends, at Broke Straight Boys, aren't working HARD to keep the models safe, with all the tests (and GOOD ones) that they have at their disposal. (Which hopefully are going to see our friends like Blake and Paul and Jason, through the storm. I am COUNTING on it!)
No, because, you guys - a VIRUS isn't an INERT ELEMENT, like HELIUM or XENON, for goodness' sake! VIRUSES are complex agents that are, by definition, malleable, genetically. Where did HIV come from? It wasn't ALWAYS there ~ though it's suprisingly old ~ but it didn't always bother HUMANS: it EVOLVED.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/aids/virus/origins.html
So look, when you start thrusting hard at anal tissues (amongst the tenderest and most easily damaged in the human body), and SATURATING them in semen (a natural vehicle for the transmission of all sorts of viruses and bacteria): it is ALWAYS a bit dicey, guys.
Sure, we have tests for the most common of the STD's at this point (even including the "quick and effective" one for HIV that Broke Straight Boys is using). . . but that doesn't mean it's all easy, and safe, and we can just relax and have a sandwich. Because, bacteria and viruses are MOVING TARGETS, ladies and gentlemen, and they aren't just sitting still just because we have tests for their superannuated cousins.
And, I don't know if I have to get a virologist on here to talk some sense into some of the happily oblivious starry-eyed (and horny) KIDS on here, but: the MORE RISKY and UNPROTECTED SEX that goes on (not just on gay sites, but in LIFE, generally) the more danger there is that dangerous infections evolve, multiply, and do their worst.
The point is - viruses have EVOLVED with us. And they LIKE us! And, if we give them the maximum opportunity to evolve, replicate, and infect us ~ they will reciprocate the favour.
I am sad to say (Jamo, and all you bareback enthusiasts) ~ you guys may well be taking us (by the force of your pocketbooks, and SPENDING POWER) back to the future : right back to the days when HIV and AIDS FIRST became a deadly crisis.
Sure, we are so lucky - we now have complex drug therapies which (for many, but not all) can contain HIV as a chronic illness, for significant periods of time. Believe me, I love (and rejoice for) EVERY SINGLE friend whose HIV is being successfully managed. But, ladies and gentlemen, "managed" is the word - and SO MANY people get to the point (even in TODAY'S circumstances) where the drug "cocktails" either become too toxic for the liver and other organs to BEAR, any longer; or to the point that the virus in their body becomes RESISTANT, to the drugs they are using for treatment :-((( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV_drug_resistance
On a world scale, and on a personal scale, HIV is STILL beating us, as a human race, and we have not yet found the answer. I hope we DO! But, in the meantime, people who are decent; people who CARE about each other; have got to try and TAKE CARE of each other.
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I believe that Broke Straight Boys is trying its best, as a site. I am just not sure if it is good enough, because of all the imponderables. And I do not like the risk of "imponderables", besetting people whom we truly love.
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Somebody said, on one of the boards, something to the effect that, "Oh, all you guys who complain so much about all this, because you THINK YOU are the MODELS' friends, you should know, you ARE NOT - and this is just a BUSINESS, after all, so just grow up and GET OVER IT." I particularly dislike and reject this argument, for TWO reasons.
#1: Because in my own little personal life (yes, even here, way up at the North Pole) I have been fortunate enough to have TWO great friends who were once models in gay erotic film. One was a famous gay Canadian model; one was a celebrated Russian one. (A straight guy who was PRETENDING to be gay, as per the conventions of Russian erotica, which are, for the most part, precisely the opposite of those at Broke Straight Boys ~ LOL!!!) Both are now happily retired. The Russian one is married, and has lovely children. And both insisted on condom use, throughout their filmic careers.
These men ARE my friends, and they are HUMAN BEINGS. What's more, they are nice, they are kind, and business be damned (!!!), while both DID the work because they NEEDED it, and I feel they did their fans a stellar service by way of giving them inspiration and comfort and happiness, they deserved to be safe and well-protected while at work: and I can't imagine (humanity being what it is) that the models at Broke Straight Boys are so much different; and. . . .
#2: Perhaps it's just my personal prejudice, but I think it behooves us to treat even STRANGERS as our friends. As people who have their own lovely lives, and joys, and sorrows, and friends, and families to go home to. And who among us would say to a construction worker, or humble window-washer. . . "It's so much more EXCITING when you take that helmet off - so PLEASE take that helmet off!"
For the management at Broke Straight Boys, that helmet is better testing. For some of us older chaps, that helmet is a condom, as WELL as testing. All I think, is that we ought to be AWARE, and CARE, about ALL of this.
Because, as I shall never tire of saying, MODELS are PEOPLE, TOO - just like you and me. They live, they breathe, they hurt, they bleed - and this is NOT a job "just like any other." Our models take great risks to help us out, with a little joy and weekly inspiration - and not only with their health, but with their self-esteem and (in this Puritanical society) their reputations.
Even if, and perhaps ESPECIALLY IF, we do not KNOW THEM, we ought to thank them, care for them, and treat them as our friends. This is NOT just one more commercial proposition - every model here - including those you may like LEAST, is sticking his neck out, JUST for US.
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In this regard, I'd say to Jamo, and to others who think similarly, YES: when models whom we love and treasure, like JASON, BLAKE, or PAUL, weigh the information given them, and decide to take the risk on "bareback scenes", OF COURSE, for those who care for them, it's a big, big, deal. And people WILL discuss this, and express their worries and their care for guys we care about.
If we DIDN'T, we'd be LESS than HUMAN, and anyone might rightly wonder if our consciences were amputated. I would ADD to that, we ought to worry just as much for EVERY MODEL. And we ought to worry, when EVERY model RIMS, whether he's been vaccinated.
When I found out that JASON was about to star in a bareback video. . . it really gave me pause, because, I LOVE JASON, SO. So I didn't get much done at work on Friday. By and large, the day was given over, to sorting out my feelings, and deciding what I would or wouldn't say, here - especially in light of Jamo's post.
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Of course, I'm hopeful. Mostly hopeful that the tests that Broke Straight Boys is using are as good as claimed. Hopeful all the testing will be well-applied. And hopeful that diseases that these tests are meant to test for, won't evolve too quickly.
But, in truth, I am also just a little SAD. Sad that all of this is NECESSARY - all this worry. Not JUST at Broke Straight Boys, but EVERYWHERE, this is down to gay men EVERYWHERE, who DEMAND that this be done. I am not quite sure how they are able, to square their passion for these little moments, with their consciences. . . . :-((((
Here, I have to pay a little tribute, to Jon from Liverton. He inquired about the evidence, and looked within himself, and changed his mind about this matter, and told us so. That took COURAGE, and I admire him for it. (Thank you, Jon - I have gained a new respect for you.)
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Let me bring this home, and bring it to a close. All of this is very personal, to me.
I'm an older guy, who's blessed to have a younger boyfriend. (Who is good and kind and beautiful, in every way.) I met him just because he'd grown tired of people using him, for just his looks. He wanted to be loved, for all the good that's in him.
Formerly, my boyfriend used to "do it" without condoms, and saw nothing wrong with it. "I never did it with a drug addict, or someone who was. . . promiscuous!", he said. Very gently, I explained the risks. He knows that, were he ever positive, I would never seek another, or reject him. (I'd just TAKE CARE of him.) He ALSO knows that anal sex without a condom, will not HAPPEN. Just because, I told him, "SOMEONE must take care of you, and if I'm to do it, that's a problem we don't need."
He accepted that, and changed his mind about protection. I wouldn't mind if others changed their minds, as he did - but I have no illusions.
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It's very clear, a certain era's done, in gay experience. Certain kinds of caution feel superfluous, to younger folk, and ARE superfluous to folk who just don't care. Though I hope that all will be OK, I fear a little; just because, life's tragedies are whimsical and errant ~ they stem, so often, from decisions hardly rising to the bar of 'sentience'. And life is so unfair, sometimes.
Trudging to my office, through the Friday sludge, I was sad. And thought a lot, on all of this. That is really all I have to say.
"A".
"Everytime we say goodbye" ~ Annie Lennox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_efac2Ajkc
"Adagio for organ and strings" ~ Albinoni
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVflDB3Uc-4
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Ah, Dear Jamostar ~
I must sincerely apologize, in advance, for any angst or offence I might cause you, in what follows. We aren't personally acquainted, and, for all I know, you are doubtless a very nice person! And I am not wanting to treat you as LESS than the nice person that I am sure you are, or as some sort of "straw man" ~ all I should like to do is set some of your propositions, alight ;-)))) I really did think I was all finished, and done, with the whole "bareback" subject, but since you waved the red rag, in front of the bull. . . you've convinced me that a couple of further clauses need to be appended, to the previous discourse on this subject ;-)
Jamo, some fights are worth fighting; and some points are worth making; not out of any ad hominem prejudice or antipathy; but sheerly because of the significance of what is at stake, you see. And you have, Jamo, adduced some SUBSTANTIVE propositions which cry out for a modest rejoinder; therefore, a rejoinder shall be given to you ~ in the spirit of the greatest respect, I trust you shall both know, and realize. (And I thank you for your patience.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr53o-wbaAw ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi4IPXgnIyA ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJCoIHnSxgs
And, Jamo, as a preliminary (but not entirely idle) metaphorical, and metaphysical, reflection: I submit to you that life itself is a little like the ancient, atavistic, spectacle, of the BULLFIGHT. An arena in which each of us is brought face-to-face, each and every day, with danger, and RISK, and in which the outcome is never ENTIRELY certain. An arena in which each of us hopes he will emerge as the handsome and courageous Jairo Miguel, triumphant and LAUDED; but in which the opposite outcome is always possible, and lurking.
I'll give you a small hint as to my disposition, Jamo, before embarking upon my more fulsome exposition of this subject. While I agree with both Ernest Hemingway, and with Generalissimo Francisco Franco, that the bullfight is at once manly, noble, bracing, and supremely exciting, I ALSO think it is not quite consonant with the highest ideals, of civilized society. Rather, I suppose that real civilization consists chiefly in the relinquishment of a little excitement, in favour of a great deal more LOVE, for one's fellow-man.
Should you and your friends have ears, by all means, let them hear.
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This debate, about barebacking, has been long and heated, and (let us be clear) shall ALWAYS occasion conflict - as all matters that prompt sincere and passionate differences of opinion, always do.
Though I am sure that, from sheer fatigue, the intensity of the battle will, in time, flicker, and wane, I know that the INNER struggles and hurts this rupture has caused, will go on and on. I am sure that the tone of conversation shall return to its normal cordiality; and all things will SEEM to have returned to "normal". But, in reality, they shall not, and will not. For, the "new normal" is something which will trouble many of us, as long as we live. And, I'll explicate.
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THE FACT IS, Jamo, and others who have made this point in the recent past are quite correct (and I ought to be fair, I don't mean to single out Jamo entirely ~ he was simply COURAGEOUS enough to say openly what many others feel, and for this, he deserves great credit: honesty is always admirable): THIS PARTICULAR battle is over. As it were, "Das lied ist aus." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3F-LSdWQX8
So far as I am aware, there is no longer ANY quality gay site, in the world, to which one might subscribe, which does NOT include unprotected sex as a regular staple of its offerings. (I am not aware of even a BAD gay site which offers solely protected sex, in its repertoire. So, that moment in the gay story is over: Jamo and his friends have triumphed, conclusively, and EVERYWHERE.
And, unless one were to profess absolute celibacy, and relinquish the pleasures of the flesh altogether (sitting in some lonely cell, reading the works of St. Augustine, or ancient Buddhist koans) there is literally nowhere to go, for anyone who would prefer to see the lads who entertain us protected, in the way we always thought they ought to be. I would say to Jamo, and others of his ilk, as you celebrate your victory, and call on those who feel angst about it, to simply QUIT the sites (and abandon all the models, and the friends they love): this is not an awfully charitable response.
I suppose I shall do my best to be a gracious LOSER ~ since I (and others who think as I do, have clearly lost this battle, and have no choice): but - are the victors now prepared to be gracious WINNERS, and cease to GLOAT, over the victory they've won? More to the point, are they SO CERTAIN, that they are RIGHT??? Aye, there's the rub, and there's the question that will catch the conscience of. . . anyone who HAS a conscience: which, in today's consumer society, is no longer a majority. (If it ever was.)
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From MY side of this debate (though I have friends on BOTH sides of the fence, and love them dearly, on EITHER side) I will READILY concede that, much further wringing of hands, and gnashing of teeth, is futile. And even worse than futile, as (at least for now) such angst disrupts the fun, and sheer CONVIVIALITY of sites like this.
And I'll admit, I am one of those to BLAME, for this! All of us, on this side, have flogged this horse so hard, and DESPERATELY, it's almost time to think about dismounting ;-)
Another KIND of comment I dislike, from MY side of this debate, is this: "I CAN'T respect this model any longer - X, or Y, or Z - because he's chosen to submit to this regime, without conventional protection." Well - really, guys? WHAT friend has ANY of us EVER had, whom we'd stop loving, just because he took a risk we wouldn't? THAT is NOT how friendship WORKS.
Because, if you have a friend, and love him (or her) ~ the very DEFINTION of such friendship is simply that you LOVE THAT PERSON, through thick and thin. Of course you give them your advice, and best ideas, but if they disagree, and do something different, you don't EXILE them. You JUST KEEP LOVING THEM.
AND, as I have said before, I DO believe that Broke Straight Boys is offering models (and insisting on) the best tests possible (which is VERY good) and in SOME cases, may help models even MORE than condoms, in terms of safety. Hopefully, in MOST cases (as long as the regime is TIGHT and STRICT) as much as condoms. (And condoms, though they're good, are not infallible.)
So, it's certainly MY hope (I'm sure yours too) that ALL our models will come through their Broke Straight Boys experience, just fine. And, I DO believe that Broke Straight Boys is doing its very BEST, in this regard. (And I really, really, thank them for this.)
*Though, I would like to see each model who appears here vaccinated ALSO, for hepatitis "A", and "B". If we had an assurance that this were done as well, I'd feel much, much, better. (For the record, because my boyfriend likes to rim, I am vaccinated for BOTH.)
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ON THE OTHER SIDE. . . .
It's been argued in this space, before, that bareback sex on this (and other sites) has NOT been undertaken in response to clear requests from members. I agree with JAMO - this is something MEMBERS have requested, here and everywhere: and now they've gotten it, in spades. COMMERCE is the impulse driving this and every other site: if people didn't bay and cry for bareback CONSTANTLY ~ here and on CF, SC, and Bel Ami and EVERYWHERE - it wouldn't happen.
MONEY TALKS, SUBSCRIPTIONS talk, and money won this battle. Things have, I think, changed a lot, since complex retroviral therapy was introduced. Kids today think HIV is like a headache ~ take two aspirin, and everything is FINE. They like bareback sex because they are not afraid of illness, like some older gay men are - they know that "condomless" FEELS good, and so they want to SEE it, and DEMAND to see it. (Even though, on film, they don't see much.)
As I've said before, a bareback scene and condomed scene, can hardly be DISCERNED from one another, visually. The cock is buried, in either one of them. But kids demand the FANTASY. So many of them, like little matadors, DEMAND. . . THE. . . RISK. They're not content with simple BEAUTY; they want RISK.
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And there's still risk, of notable extent. Not because our friends, at Broke Straight Boys, aren't working HARD to keep the models safe, with all the tests (and GOOD ones) that they have at their disposal. (Which hopefully are going to see our friends like Blake and Paul and Jason, through the storm. I am COUNTING on it!)
No, because, you guys - a VIRUS isn't an INERT ELEMENT, like HELIUM or XENON, for goodness' sake! VIRUSES are complex agents that are, by definition, malleable, genetically. Where did HIV come from? It wasn't ALWAYS there ~ though it's suprisingly old ~ but it didn't always bother HUMANS: it EVOLVED.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/aids/virus/origins.html
So look, when you start thrusting hard at anal tissues (amongst the tenderest and most easily damaged in the human body), and SATURATING them in semen (a natural vehicle for the transmission of all sorts of viruses and bacteria): it is ALWAYS a bit dicey, guys.
Sure, we have tests for the most common of the STD's at this point (even including the "quick and effective" one for HIV that Broke Straight Boys is using). . . but that doesn't mean it's all easy, and safe, and we can just relax and have a sandwich. Because, bacteria and viruses are MOVING TARGETS, ladies and gentlemen, and they aren't just sitting still just because we have tests for their superannuated cousins.
And, I don't know if I have to get a virologist on here to talk some sense into some of the happily oblivious starry-eyed (and horny) KIDS on here, but: the MORE RISKY and UNPROTECTED SEX that goes on (not just on gay sites, but in LIFE, generally) the more danger there is that dangerous infections evolve, multiply, and do their worst.
The point is - viruses have EVOLVED with us. And they LIKE us! And, if we give them the maximum opportunity to evolve, replicate, and infect us ~ they will reciprocate the favour.
I am sad to say (Jamo, and all you bareback enthusiasts) ~ you guys may well be taking us (by the force of your pocketbooks, and SPENDING POWER) back to the future : right back to the days when HIV and AIDS FIRST became a deadly crisis.
Sure, we are so lucky - we now have complex drug therapies which (for many, but not all) can contain HIV as a chronic illness, for significant periods of time. Believe me, I love (and rejoice for) EVERY SINGLE friend whose HIV is being successfully managed. But, ladies and gentlemen, "managed" is the word - and SO MANY people get to the point (even in TODAY'S circumstances) where the drug "cocktails" either become too toxic for the liver and other organs to BEAR, any longer; or to the point that the virus in their body becomes RESISTANT, to the drugs they are using for treatment :-((( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV_drug_resistance
On a world scale, and on a personal scale, HIV is STILL beating us, as a human race, and we have not yet found the answer. I hope we DO! But, in the meantime, people who are decent; people who CARE about each other; have got to try and TAKE CARE of each other.
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I believe that Broke Straight Boys is trying its best, as a site. I am just not sure if it is good enough, because of all the imponderables. And I do not like the risk of "imponderables", besetting people whom we truly love.
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Somebody said, on one of the boards, something to the effect that, "Oh, all you guys who complain so much about all this, because you THINK YOU are the MODELS' friends, you should know, you ARE NOT - and this is just a BUSINESS, after all, so just grow up and GET OVER IT." I particularly dislike and reject this argument, for TWO reasons.
#1: Because in my own little personal life (yes, even here, way up at the North Pole) I have been fortunate enough to have TWO great friends who were once models in gay erotic film. One was a famous gay Canadian model; one was a celebrated Russian one. (A straight guy who was PRETENDING to be gay, as per the conventions of Russian erotica, which are, for the most part, precisely the opposite of those at Broke Straight Boys ~ LOL!!!) Both are now happily retired. The Russian one is married, and has lovely children. And both insisted on condom use, throughout their filmic careers.
These men ARE my friends, and they are HUMAN BEINGS. What's more, they are nice, they are kind, and business be damned (!!!), while both DID the work because they NEEDED it, and I feel they did their fans a stellar service by way of giving them inspiration and comfort and happiness, they deserved to be safe and well-protected while at work: and I can't imagine (humanity being what it is) that the models at Broke Straight Boys are so much different; and. . . .
#2: Perhaps it's just my personal prejudice, but I think it behooves us to treat even STRANGERS as our friends. As people who have their own lovely lives, and joys, and sorrows, and friends, and families to go home to. And who among us would say to a construction worker, or humble window-washer. . . "It's so much more EXCITING when you take that helmet off - so PLEASE take that helmet off!"
For the management at Broke Straight Boys, that helmet is better testing. For some of us older chaps, that helmet is a condom, as WELL as testing. All I think, is that we ought to be AWARE, and CARE, about ALL of this.
Because, as I shall never tire of saying, MODELS are PEOPLE, TOO - just like you and me. They live, they breathe, they hurt, they bleed - and this is NOT a job "just like any other." Our models take great risks to help us out, with a little joy and weekly inspiration - and not only with their health, but with their self-esteem and (in this Puritanical society) their reputations.
Even if, and perhaps ESPECIALLY IF, we do not KNOW THEM, we ought to thank them, care for them, and treat them as our friends. This is NOT just one more commercial proposition - every model here - including those you may like LEAST, is sticking his neck out, JUST for US.
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In this regard, I'd say to Jamo, and to others who think similarly, YES: when models whom we love and treasure, like JASON, BLAKE, or PAUL, weigh the information given them, and decide to take the risk on "bareback scenes", OF COURSE, for those who care for them, it's a big, big, deal. And people WILL discuss this, and express their worries and their care for guys we care about.
If we DIDN'T, we'd be LESS than HUMAN, and anyone might rightly wonder if our consciences were amputated. I would ADD to that, we ought to worry just as much for EVERY MODEL. And we ought to worry, when EVERY model RIMS, whether he's been vaccinated.
When I found out that JASON was about to star in a bareback video. . . it really gave me pause, because, I LOVE JASON, SO. So I didn't get much done at work on Friday. By and large, the day was given over, to sorting out my feelings, and deciding what I would or wouldn't say, here - especially in light of Jamo's post.
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Of course, I'm hopeful. Mostly hopeful that the tests that Broke Straight Boys is using are as good as claimed. Hopeful all the testing will be well-applied. And hopeful that diseases that these tests are meant to test for, won't evolve too quickly.
But, in truth, I am also just a little SAD. Sad that all of this is NECESSARY - all this worry. Not JUST at Broke Straight Boys, but EVERYWHERE, this is down to gay men EVERYWHERE, who DEMAND that this be done. I am not quite sure how they are able, to square their passion for these little moments, with their consciences. . . . :-((((
Here, I have to pay a little tribute, to Jon from Liverton. He inquired about the evidence, and looked within himself, and changed his mind about this matter, and told us so. That took COURAGE, and I admire him for it. (Thank you, Jon - I have gained a new respect for you.)
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Let me bring this home, and bring it to a close. All of this is very personal, to me.
I'm an older guy, who's blessed to have a younger boyfriend. (Who is good and kind and beautiful, in every way.) I met him just because he'd grown tired of people using him, for just his looks. He wanted to be loved, for all the good that's in him.
Formerly, my boyfriend used to "do it" without condoms, and saw nothing wrong with it. "I never did it with a drug addict, or someone who was. . . promiscuous!", he said. Very gently, I explained the risks. He knows that, were he ever positive, I would never seek another, or reject him. (I'd just TAKE CARE of him.) He ALSO knows that anal sex without a condom, will not HAPPEN. Just because, I told him, "SOMEONE must take care of you, and if I'm to do it, that's a problem we don't need."
He accepted that, and changed his mind about protection. I wouldn't mind if others changed their minds, as he did - but I have no illusions.
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It's very clear, a certain era's done, in gay experience. Certain kinds of caution feel superfluous, to younger folk, and ARE superfluous to folk who just don't care. Though I hope that all will be OK, I fear a little; just because, life's tragedies are whimsical and errant ~ they stem, so often, from decisions hardly rising to the bar of 'sentience'. And life is so unfair, sometimes.
Trudging to my office, through the Friday sludge, I was sad. And thought a lot, on all of this. That is really all I have to say.
"A".
"Everytime we say goodbye" ~ Annie Lennox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_efac2Ajkc
"Adagio for organ and strings" ~ Albinoni
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVflDB3Uc-4
Thanks for that post and I can assure you I read every word. I think it's beautiful that you care so much about the boys here.. I like to think that im a very caring person too but your wisdom has led me to believe that maybe the disconnection here might be more to do with age and knowledge. I only just turned 25 in September and I saw you said that you are "an older guy". I had a think about it and I really tried hard to think of the reasons why I support bareback porn.. and to be totally honest and truth be known I would have to say it is selfishness. The other reason is that its hard to worry about someone you dont know and will most probably never know. I guess thats not a good enough reason.. but I do know that most people that are also my age also prefer to watch bareback porn. Do you think there is some correlation between age and the way we think at different times in our life. I do know that if I found out a young guy contracted aids for example from his work on gay bareback porn sites i would be devastated. I guess because that has never happened its probably yet another reason why I am in support of its onging production currently. I noticed you enjoyed Paul and Jasons latest bareback scene so I wanted to ask you do you think that scene would have been just as hot and just as much a turn on if they were using condoms? Because the trouble for me is and I know its selfish to think this way but I know how my mind works when it comes to sex and can honestly say that I would have still enjoyed the scene but that I enjoyed it a whole lot more because it was filmed bareback. I find it more arousing and even though in your post some of the terms you used in describing bareback sex were rather clinical, I also find it natural and more beautiful to watch. I have never demanded or asked for bareback scenes. Not here and not anywhere. The first time i have ever spoken about it or discussed it with other people was here on the forums. But like you said, people obviously are demanding it because all the big studios are switching or have already done so. But i can see both sides of this debate and I think what i said in my post the other day was probably over the top and inappropriate. To be honest, i dont have a right to tell people to stop talking about bareback scenes. If you object then you in fact have every right to let that be known. I will continue to watch porn whether it was bareback or not so in that sense im probably on the wrong side of the debate. I would say that i prefer bareback sex, but if it ended today i would not be someone to complain about it or wish for its return. I just trust in the studios and i trust that the boys are using their heads and staying informed on the subject. There is no amount of money or no amount of sexual pleasure that is worth risking your health for. I have got to go and have some dinner cos im starving lol but thanks for your reply and i will add to this some more later. I just wanted you to know that you didnt write all that for no reason and that I and im sure many other member here appreciate your opinion and the fact you care so much about the boys. Its very nice to know there are genuinely good people around. Not that i dont think im a good person, but I just think I'm maybe too young and not fully aware or knowledgeable on the topic to make judgements one way or another. Okay thanks again, enjoy your weekend! : )
Whoops, I wanted to add also that your english and writing style is brilliant. I wish I could express myself in words that way! Its awesome! ; )
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joninliverton
BSB Addict
Good response Jamo - You bring some good and honest points regarding the bb issue to which I agree. I recently had to change my stance towards barebacking but we have to accept now that it is part of Broke Straight Boys But it has been recorded in my head the names of those that were constantly anti bareback and have absolutely loved this film.
mikeyank
Long time forumite
Thank you Jamostar for taking some time to think about what Ambivalent and others of us have been saying, and I do not think that it is a coincidence that so many of the supporters of BB sex in porn are the younger members of the forum, as you were born after the worst of the epidemic, where every gay man knew people who were stricken and often died in the prime of their young lives.
I understand that the medical community now has taken away the sure death sentence that once was associated with AIDS, but it is still not a way that a person should need to live the rest of their lives, and that is why I found it so troubling that BB was being added to Broke Straight Boys
Thank you for saying:
"I had a think about it and I really tried hard to think of the reasons why I support bareback porn.. and to be totally honest and truth be known I would have to say it is selfishness. The other reason is that its hard to worry about someone you dont know and will most probably never know. I guess thats not a good enough reason.. but I do know that most people that are also my age also prefer to watch bareback porn."
That is a very honest answer, and I must tell you that not only people your age enjoy watching bareback porn. Porn with condoms was only introduced after the devastation of AIDS, and in a perfect world, I would agree that watching natural sex is hotter than with a latex sheath, but with all of the modern testing, there is still a danger as has been pointed out on many threads dealing with this matter.
When in all honesty you admit that "it's hard to worry about someone you don't know and will most probably never know", that is a reality as well, but it is also the reason it is so much more difficult for us long term members here to see people like Blake and Jason accepting bareback as we feel a sense of community with these young men through their scenes, their postings, their behind the scenes, and for those as lucky as me, to have actually met them and spent some time with them at the pride events. When there is any risk involved with someone as young and vital, and who I feel a personal connection with, it is the most troubling. It is selfish on my part to care more about the guys I have the closest personal connection with, rather than a random model off the street, but that is my reality.
You also said:
"I do know that if I found out a young guy contracted aids for example from his work on gay bareback porn sites i would be devastated."
There are many, many gay porn actors who have died from bareback sex before condoms were introduced into the industry, and with the new measures taken in the industry it is less likely today but not impossible. To me it is a question of risks and rewards. Is it important enough for me to enjoy a porn scene more without condoms, than to not have any guilty feelings about what I am watching?
You mentioned on two threads involving Jason & Paul's scene, how much you would like to see another episode in the series where Paul is fucked bareback by Jason. I don't know if you read Paul's comments on one of the bareback threads that since filming it, he has had second thoughts and would consider switching back to condoms upon his return to film future scenes.
Thanks again Jamostar for taking some time to think further about this issue, and to express your new thoughts openly with us on the forum. I appreciate your honest introspective thoughts.
On a side note, I'd appreciate it if you would you please break your posts up into smaller paragraphs, as it makes it easier to read. Thanks again for a post on this thread which put a smile on my face, and leads me to believe that this discussion is not over regarding Broke Straight Boys and bareback porn.
mikeyank
Long time forumite
The Paul & Jason scene was a masterpiece of two beautiful models who gave an incredible performance.
I am one of those who has been anti bareback from the first hint that it was coming to Broke Straight Boys I believe the scene would have been just as good if Paul slipped a condom on before fucking and took a second to remove it before showering Jason with his cum. I also appreciated that Paul did into cum inside of Jason, and certainly did not push his dick back inside after cumming.
And being that you are now anti-bareback too Jon, I guess that puts you in the same camp as someone opposed to this practice but who absolutely loved this film as well.
Ambivalent
BSB Addict
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2009
- Posts
- 1,811
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Hi, dear Jamostar,
For your very kind and thoughtful post. It is so nice to meet you; and no, I don't think anything you wrote was "inappropriate", at all. You simply honestly expressed some feelings and ideas a lot of people feel, and just because you put it "out there", I sort of used your post as a template, in which to explore some questions I think are important.
Jamo, you are clearly a nice and very caring person - don't let ANYONE suggest otherwise. (And if I seemed to, in my post, then I owe YOU a huge apology.)
When it comes to age, J. - older is NEVER necessarily 'wiser'. Everyone is, simply, an individual: with his or her own strengths and weaknesses, intellectually, and emotionally. I am 47, now, and I know many younger people who are both kinder and wiser, than I am.
I well recall a student I had, long ago, who was just 18, who wrote the most PERFECT paper on the philosophy of Kant, I ever read. It was truly BRILLIANT, Jamo: far exceeding monographs I'd read by famous scholars, who'd spent DECADES marinating in that stuff. Not to mention, this young guy was kind, and gentle, and serious, and polite as well. A fine, well-formed, brilliant, VERY wise person: and that was almost 20 years ago. I bet he exceeded me in every way - intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually - THEN; and I am SURE he does, NOW!
J., I also do not think that you are bad, or selfish, just because seeing bareback videos is exciting, for you. I know that unprotected sex feels good ~ and so a lot of people like to see it. Because to see it helps them recollect that feeling. There's nothing wrong with that. You were simply being honest.
Where the age issue comes into play, regarding condomless videos ~ it has less to do with wisdom, than with different personal HISTORIES, and life experiences. A lot of guys your age have grown up in a world where there were always pretty decent (if not perfect) treatments for HIV: and in which condom-use was so widespread and insisted-on, following on the practices of the generation just before, that rates of HIV infection were rather lower than they'd been, in quite some time. (Unfortunately, now they're rising, once again.) Paradoxically, this led people to think condoms were NOT so important, any longer.
For ancient guys like me, our experiences are different. I graduated high-school just about the time that AIDS was making headlines, as an INEXPLICABLE and deadly, "gay disease". Many people who were active in the gay community during the 1980's and early 1990's (sexually, or socially, or both) saw SCORES of friends become infected, and die, before any helpful treatment was available. I wasn't active, in that way~ I had my head in books ~ BUT, I read about it, and heard about it, too.
THEN, we learned that condoms are a very effective mechanism of prevention. (As, of course, they still are, today.) Suddenly, Jamostar, hundreds of thousands of gay men my age breathed a HUGE sigh of relief - thinking, "We CAN have sex, without it KILLING US." And so, for ten or fifteen years, condom-use was de rigueur. And no one questioned it - it was an article of faith.
But eventually, in people's personal lives, "condom-fatigue" set in. And I understand why that is. Skin-on-skin obviously feels better than skin on rubber: maybe a little, maybe a LOT. As infection rates began to fall, and better treatments were developed, people just sort of. . . RELAXED, and forgot the troubles of the former decade. And, as people got more comfortable with unprotected sex again, that experience inevitably spilled over into people's FANTASIES, and what they wanted VISUALLY, from sites like Broke Straight Boys and all the others.
What you're seeing, J., in this debate, is a big divide (mostly) between some older people (like me) who got the CRAP scared out of them by going to (or knowing of) funeral after funeral, for guys who indulged in unprotected sex ~ and who still are not QUITE sure that current testing-methods are effective as proponents claim; and younger people who are less inhibited, because they've seen (to put it bluntly) less death amongst their peers, and who are much more optimistic, as far as treatment is concerned. That's a gross generality, Jamo, but I think it largely holds.
When I spoke about contingency and chance and imponderabilty, earlier ~ well, that is what keeps this debate ALIVE. These days, testing is much quicker, and better, than it ever used to be: but perfect, it is not. (Yet, anyway.) Guys like me and Mike, and James (from Dublin) worry that SOMEONE will fall through the cracks, and feel that risk just isn't GOOD. Other guys feel that, with the better tests we have now, and the better treatments that are there as a safety-net, the risk is relatively small, and not a big issue. And it's not an easy question, precisely because it is ARGUABLE, either way.
Rationally, J., this is a purely scientific question, but - because so much depends on PRACTICE, and STANDARDS of implementation: and because so much simply ISN'T known about the minutiae of INDIVIDUAL genetic vulnerabilities, and the GAPS in testing regimes - this is certainly going to be a vexed (and troubling) question, for quite some time.
Jamostar, when you stated that HIV infection has never happened during the filming of bareback films, I wouldn't be so sure, about that. While I know of no conclusive cases of models who have CONTRACTED HIV during the filming of bareback movies, there are certainly a number of cases of models who were infected with HIV and performed in bareback films, putting other models at risk ~ Mason Wyler was a famous case, and Josh Weston was another. http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/12/19/gay-bareback-porn-star-dies-of-hiv-related-complications/
J., I think that, in both these cases, the fact that models were put at risk was a function of the studios in question having inadequate testing regimes ~ and, from what I understand, Broke Straight Boys is being VERY careful about all this kind of stuff. I like and respect Mark and Sha; I know they care DEEPLY about the guys they work with; and I have every confidence that they are doing their very best to keep Broke Straight Boys a safe and fun experience, for all their stars.
Nonetheless, the issues I alluded to, supra, are the kinds of things old guys like me, sometimes lose a little sleep, over.
In answer to your question, yes indeed, I DID and DO love Jason's and Paul's latest scene together - very much! I think it is one of the best scenes I have EVER had the pleasure to view! And, honestly, YES, Jamostar, I can ABSOLUTELY say that I would have enjoyed the scene ENTIRELY as much, if Paul had been wearing a condom.
To ME, J., whether a guy is wearing a condom or not, plays NO PART in my enjoyment of any scene. I don't have a stopwatch handy, but. . . let's put it this way. Paul INSERTS, BARE, at 9:07, and is FULLY INSERTED by 9:19. That's about 12 seconds - give or take a few seconds. (If I HAD a bareback fetish, that's the 12 seconds I would have liked the MOST, out of the whole video.)
In most of the remaining 10 minutes, you seldom see Paul's bare penis going completely in and out (because it is fully - and VIGOROUSLY! - inserted) except at 12:03, 13:18, sort of half-so at 15:35, good shot at 15:48; and one more at 18:02. For pretty much the rest of the coital part, you could never really tell whether Paul had a condom on, or not - because he is so BALLS-DEEP, in JASON! LOL!
(BTW, J - thanks for posing the question: it was a really good excuse to watch a SUPER video, all over again! One thing I DID discover is how SEXY Paul's NOISES are, when he's topping. I really love that baritone, "Mmmm, mmmm, mmmmphhh"!!!)
So, Jamostar, I don't quite get what bareback enthusiasts GET out of bareback. Except - EXCEPT . . . my friends call me "the man of a thousand fetishes." (Write me a post about hands or arms or feet or legs or clavicles or Jason's LOVELY BROWN EYES, and you'll get QUITE a response!) And I know that fetishes are not entirely rational. The thing I think bareback enthusiasts like MOST about bareback, is not the exceptionally fleeting visual stimulation they are EVER going to get from a bareback video (ANY bareback video) - but the IDEA that there is no condom, in operation. Because that very IDEA, is a reminder of past, personal, pleasure.
I sort of get that. And sort of don't. My fetishes are pretty rigorously VISUAL in nature, and if I don't get a FULL 15 MINUTES of sexy legs and bare feet in any given video - to HELL with it: I'm OUTTA there! ROFL!!!
So, in terms of the sheer erotic power of this performance, Paul not having a condom on certainly didn't take anything AWAY from it, for me: but it didn't ADD anything, either. Quite truthfully.
As far as caring about the boys, Jamo - sure I do! But you speak so appreciatively about them, I am sure you do, too! Confidentially, one thing I cannot understand (and will never understand) is how some people can look at gay videos as if they were a half-price Christmas display at Wal-Mart, or Tesco, or wherever. And how some people just think, "this model, or that one" is totally disposable, and doesn't matter.
I know you're not one of THOSE people, though, Jamostar. I really want to thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts honestly, and also to reply to the things I had to say, in a very kind, considerate, respectful, and thoughtful way. You're genuine; you're nice; and it is a pleasure getting to know you. I have very much enjoyed this conversation, with you, and will be QUITE pleased to be your friend.
"A" XOXOXOXOXOXOXO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNapDkz1urc
For your very kind and thoughtful post. It is so nice to meet you; and no, I don't think anything you wrote was "inappropriate", at all. You simply honestly expressed some feelings and ideas a lot of people feel, and just because you put it "out there", I sort of used your post as a template, in which to explore some questions I think are important.
Jamo, you are clearly a nice and very caring person - don't let ANYONE suggest otherwise. (And if I seemed to, in my post, then I owe YOU a huge apology.)
When it comes to age, J. - older is NEVER necessarily 'wiser'. Everyone is, simply, an individual: with his or her own strengths and weaknesses, intellectually, and emotionally. I am 47, now, and I know many younger people who are both kinder and wiser, than I am.
I well recall a student I had, long ago, who was just 18, who wrote the most PERFECT paper on the philosophy of Kant, I ever read. It was truly BRILLIANT, Jamo: far exceeding monographs I'd read by famous scholars, who'd spent DECADES marinating in that stuff. Not to mention, this young guy was kind, and gentle, and serious, and polite as well. A fine, well-formed, brilliant, VERY wise person: and that was almost 20 years ago. I bet he exceeded me in every way - intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually - THEN; and I am SURE he does, NOW!
J., I also do not think that you are bad, or selfish, just because seeing bareback videos is exciting, for you. I know that unprotected sex feels good ~ and so a lot of people like to see it. Because to see it helps them recollect that feeling. There's nothing wrong with that. You were simply being honest.
Where the age issue comes into play, regarding condomless videos ~ it has less to do with wisdom, than with different personal HISTORIES, and life experiences. A lot of guys your age have grown up in a world where there were always pretty decent (if not perfect) treatments for HIV: and in which condom-use was so widespread and insisted-on, following on the practices of the generation just before, that rates of HIV infection were rather lower than they'd been, in quite some time. (Unfortunately, now they're rising, once again.) Paradoxically, this led people to think condoms were NOT so important, any longer.
For ancient guys like me, our experiences are different. I graduated high-school just about the time that AIDS was making headlines, as an INEXPLICABLE and deadly, "gay disease". Many people who were active in the gay community during the 1980's and early 1990's (sexually, or socially, or both) saw SCORES of friends become infected, and die, before any helpful treatment was available. I wasn't active, in that way~ I had my head in books ~ BUT, I read about it, and heard about it, too.
THEN, we learned that condoms are a very effective mechanism of prevention. (As, of course, they still are, today.) Suddenly, Jamostar, hundreds of thousands of gay men my age breathed a HUGE sigh of relief - thinking, "We CAN have sex, without it KILLING US." And so, for ten or fifteen years, condom-use was de rigueur. And no one questioned it - it was an article of faith.
But eventually, in people's personal lives, "condom-fatigue" set in. And I understand why that is. Skin-on-skin obviously feels better than skin on rubber: maybe a little, maybe a LOT. As infection rates began to fall, and better treatments were developed, people just sort of. . . RELAXED, and forgot the troubles of the former decade. And, as people got more comfortable with unprotected sex again, that experience inevitably spilled over into people's FANTASIES, and what they wanted VISUALLY, from sites like Broke Straight Boys and all the others.
What you're seeing, J., in this debate, is a big divide (mostly) between some older people (like me) who got the CRAP scared out of them by going to (or knowing of) funeral after funeral, for guys who indulged in unprotected sex ~ and who still are not QUITE sure that current testing-methods are effective as proponents claim; and younger people who are less inhibited, because they've seen (to put it bluntly) less death amongst their peers, and who are much more optimistic, as far as treatment is concerned. That's a gross generality, Jamo, but I think it largely holds.
When I spoke about contingency and chance and imponderabilty, earlier ~ well, that is what keeps this debate ALIVE. These days, testing is much quicker, and better, than it ever used to be: but perfect, it is not. (Yet, anyway.) Guys like me and Mike, and James (from Dublin) worry that SOMEONE will fall through the cracks, and feel that risk just isn't GOOD. Other guys feel that, with the better tests we have now, and the better treatments that are there as a safety-net, the risk is relatively small, and not a big issue. And it's not an easy question, precisely because it is ARGUABLE, either way.
Rationally, J., this is a purely scientific question, but - because so much depends on PRACTICE, and STANDARDS of implementation: and because so much simply ISN'T known about the minutiae of INDIVIDUAL genetic vulnerabilities, and the GAPS in testing regimes - this is certainly going to be a vexed (and troubling) question, for quite some time.
Jamostar, when you stated that HIV infection has never happened during the filming of bareback films, I wouldn't be so sure, about that. While I know of no conclusive cases of models who have CONTRACTED HIV during the filming of bareback movies, there are certainly a number of cases of models who were infected with HIV and performed in bareback films, putting other models at risk ~ Mason Wyler was a famous case, and Josh Weston was another. http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/12/19/gay-bareback-porn-star-dies-of-hiv-related-complications/
J., I think that, in both these cases, the fact that models were put at risk was a function of the studios in question having inadequate testing regimes ~ and, from what I understand, Broke Straight Boys is being VERY careful about all this kind of stuff. I like and respect Mark and Sha; I know they care DEEPLY about the guys they work with; and I have every confidence that they are doing their very best to keep Broke Straight Boys a safe and fun experience, for all their stars.
Nonetheless, the issues I alluded to, supra, are the kinds of things old guys like me, sometimes lose a little sleep, over.
In answer to your question, yes indeed, I DID and DO love Jason's and Paul's latest scene together - very much! I think it is one of the best scenes I have EVER had the pleasure to view! And, honestly, YES, Jamostar, I can ABSOLUTELY say that I would have enjoyed the scene ENTIRELY as much, if Paul had been wearing a condom.
To ME, J., whether a guy is wearing a condom or not, plays NO PART in my enjoyment of any scene. I don't have a stopwatch handy, but. . . let's put it this way. Paul INSERTS, BARE, at 9:07, and is FULLY INSERTED by 9:19. That's about 12 seconds - give or take a few seconds. (If I HAD a bareback fetish, that's the 12 seconds I would have liked the MOST, out of the whole video.)
In most of the remaining 10 minutes, you seldom see Paul's bare penis going completely in and out (because it is fully - and VIGOROUSLY! - inserted) except at 12:03, 13:18, sort of half-so at 15:35, good shot at 15:48; and one more at 18:02. For pretty much the rest of the coital part, you could never really tell whether Paul had a condom on, or not - because he is so BALLS-DEEP, in JASON! LOL!
(BTW, J - thanks for posing the question: it was a really good excuse to watch a SUPER video, all over again! One thing I DID discover is how SEXY Paul's NOISES are, when he's topping. I really love that baritone, "Mmmm, mmmm, mmmmphhh"!!!)
So, Jamostar, I don't quite get what bareback enthusiasts GET out of bareback. Except - EXCEPT . . . my friends call me "the man of a thousand fetishes." (Write me a post about hands or arms or feet or legs or clavicles or Jason's LOVELY BROWN EYES, and you'll get QUITE a response!) And I know that fetishes are not entirely rational. The thing I think bareback enthusiasts like MOST about bareback, is not the exceptionally fleeting visual stimulation they are EVER going to get from a bareback video (ANY bareback video) - but the IDEA that there is no condom, in operation. Because that very IDEA, is a reminder of past, personal, pleasure.
I sort of get that. And sort of don't. My fetishes are pretty rigorously VISUAL in nature, and if I don't get a FULL 15 MINUTES of sexy legs and bare feet in any given video - to HELL with it: I'm OUTTA there! ROFL!!!
So, in terms of the sheer erotic power of this performance, Paul not having a condom on certainly didn't take anything AWAY from it, for me: but it didn't ADD anything, either. Quite truthfully.
As far as caring about the boys, Jamo - sure I do! But you speak so appreciatively about them, I am sure you do, too! Confidentially, one thing I cannot understand (and will never understand) is how some people can look at gay videos as if they were a half-price Christmas display at Wal-Mart, or Tesco, or wherever. And how some people just think, "this model, or that one" is totally disposable, and doesn't matter.
I know you're not one of THOSE people, though, Jamostar. I really want to thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts honestly, and also to reply to the things I had to say, in a very kind, considerate, respectful, and thoughtful way. You're genuine; you're nice; and it is a pleasure getting to know you. I have very much enjoyed this conversation, with you, and will be QUITE pleased to be your friend.
"A" XOXOXOXOXOXOXO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNapDkz1urc
joninliverton
BSB Addict
Indeed, but I didn't go on about it ten to the dozen. Ha ha
RSand88
Guest
I guess this "discussion" (if it is really that) about barebacking is here to stay, but I, for one, intend to start skipping all posts dealing with this issue.
Enough already!
Enough already!
AtlantaGuy
Well-known Member
Did you read that San Diego recently passed a law that mandates condoms in the adult film industry? Wonder if other muncipalities will follow suit?
WOW; that is one of the best I have seen since the last BAREBACK. again I lov the performer doing the directing. Paul you did not answer the directors question about "if you FUCK your girlfriends & is that (S) or just one?
Both of your boys did a super performance of strenght; attitude and determination. Was position; action; decided ahead of time?
It would be interesting Paul if in reviewing the Vid to comment about what you were thinking at different points?
At points were you still fucking JASON; mentally, were you in another time,place and person, as you were pounded so much harder?
do you & JASON HAVE a sexual relationship off screen? Non sexual; friendship relationship off screen?
Thanks for your time to answer.
Both of your boys did a super performance of strenght; attitude and determination. Was position; action; decided ahead of time?
It would be interesting Paul if in reviewing the Vid to comment about what you were thinking at different points?
At points were you still fucking JASON; mentally, were you in another time,place and person, as you were pounded so much harder?
do you & JASON HAVE a sexual relationship off screen? Non sexual; friendship relationship off screen?
Thanks for your time to answer.
thank you; but do something about it; can you not seach for the word BB -- bareback & move all of them good BAD OR UGH TO ONE STITE and purge us from having to read the same rants????
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