-
CLICK HERE To Join Broke Straight Boys & Instantly Get Full Access To Entire Site & 3 FREE bonus sites.
Is it getting serious yet?
- Thread starter Kylebrand
- Start date
louis33705
BSB Addict
I am a little late in responding to this thread. We have a scenario where a bakery refuses to bake a cake for a gay couple and they claim it is because of their religious freedom. On the other hand, a bakery refused to bake a cake with an anti-gay message and they accused the bakery of discrimination. I've posted this video on another site.
Ambivalent
BSB Addict
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2009
- Posts
- 1,811
- Reaction score
- 2
Dearest Kyle ~
Though these recent developments are alarming (to say the least): please take heart. The backlash against a more tolerant, inclusive, and civil society, is always fiercest, when the bigots sense, feel, and KNOW they are losing.
Today, Kyle, over 60 per cent of young Republicans approve of gay marriage. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/03/10/61-of-young-republicans-favor-same-sex-marriage/
Today, Kyle, almost 50 per cent of young evangelical Christians approve of gay marriage, too. Which is a remarkable sea-change in opinion, given the ethical teachings to which they have been exposed. (In full disclosure, I am a liberal Christian - though not as good a one as dear Tampa - and to this I say, "It's about time!") http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/07/evangelicals-gay-marriage-108608.html#.VTQS8Xl0xjo
But there you have it, Kyle. The world is changing. When I was born (in 1965) being caught in a "homosexual act" could land you in prison, in Canada. In 1968, Pierre Elliot Trudeau, then Minister of Justice, decriminalized consensual homosexual acts, famously declaring that, "The State has no place in the bedrooms of the nation." In 1985, when I was 20 and came to town to do my M.A. - police were still raiding gay clubs and video-stores which carried gay material. By the late 1990's, these persecutions had ceased, such that policemen and women would enter gay clubs while they were on patrol, and be greeted by the patrons as friends and helpers. And in July, 2005, Canada became the fourth country in the world to legalize same-sex marriage.
Kyle, when I was 20, I never would have imagined, being a careful student of history - that such change could ever happen in MY LIFETIME. But, it has.
I believe that media has a lot to do with this. When I was a kid, if you were a GAY kid, it was a very common experience to imagine that, "I am the only one OUT THERE." (I didn't think that, personally, because I read the encyclopedia, and biographies, and knew there were lots of amazing gay men out there to emulate - from Michelangelo, to Sir Noel Coward - LOL! I DID think, though, that my road was going to be a tough one!)
Just over the past decade, though, the spread of the Internet, and the democratization of personal expression - through blogs and other such instruments - has meant that young people no longer have to suffer in silence. And, they don't.
Even popular television has played a role. Indeed, I think that silly shows like "Will and Grace", and various dramas that have showcased gay characters, have made people think twice. And have probably done more for the condition of homosexual men and women, than any Gay Pride event, or march.
It is well-demonstrated, Kyle, that the single biggest predictor of whether a straight person will be tolerant of gay people, or not - - - is whether he or she personally knows and loves someone who is gay. Thanks to mass media, and social media, and the increasing willingness of gay people to "come out" at the workplace and in their families - almost everyone in Canada, the U.S., and Europe, now knows of a friend or family member who is gay. And so, the question becomes, for them, much less one of ideology or dogma, but one of PERSONAL FEELING and RELATIONSHIP - which is as it should be.
So, Kyle - YES. There is always going to be a hard core of anti-gay activists, who, for ideological or theological or personal reasons, will do their very best to make life MISERABLE, for gay people. And they will fight even harder to hang on to their prejudice, as the world changes. However, the younger generation (even young Republicans, and young evangelical Christians) are not buying this, as they used to. More and more, people in the middle ("the silent majority") are open to accepting gay people.
What we must do, I think, is simply to be ourselves. And show that we are just as capable as anyone, of being good Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, or agnostics - that we are just as capable as anyone of being good citizens, business-people, military service people, or public servants - and that we live our lives in very normal ways, simply seeking to love and be loved, and care for our families: JUST LIKE ANYONE ELSE, in the WORLD.
By this simple means, Kyle - the evils that you have described, will be conquered. And (I think) sooner, rather than later.
Hugs, your,
"A" XOXOXOXOXOXOXO
*"You ask - what is our aim? I can answer, in one word. It is victory. Victory at all costs. Victory despite all terrors. Victory, no matter how long and hard the road might be - for without victory, there is no survival." ~ Sir Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill, at his inaugural speech as Prime Minister, May 10, 1940.
Though these recent developments are alarming (to say the least): please take heart. The backlash against a more tolerant, inclusive, and civil society, is always fiercest, when the bigots sense, feel, and KNOW they are losing.
Today, Kyle, over 60 per cent of young Republicans approve of gay marriage. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/03/10/61-of-young-republicans-favor-same-sex-marriage/
Today, Kyle, almost 50 per cent of young evangelical Christians approve of gay marriage, too. Which is a remarkable sea-change in opinion, given the ethical teachings to which they have been exposed. (In full disclosure, I am a liberal Christian - though not as good a one as dear Tampa - and to this I say, "It's about time!") http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/07/evangelicals-gay-marriage-108608.html#.VTQS8Xl0xjo
But there you have it, Kyle. The world is changing. When I was born (in 1965) being caught in a "homosexual act" could land you in prison, in Canada. In 1968, Pierre Elliot Trudeau, then Minister of Justice, decriminalized consensual homosexual acts, famously declaring that, "The State has no place in the bedrooms of the nation." In 1985, when I was 20 and came to town to do my M.A. - police were still raiding gay clubs and video-stores which carried gay material. By the late 1990's, these persecutions had ceased, such that policemen and women would enter gay clubs while they were on patrol, and be greeted by the patrons as friends and helpers. And in July, 2005, Canada became the fourth country in the world to legalize same-sex marriage.
Kyle, when I was 20, I never would have imagined, being a careful student of history - that such change could ever happen in MY LIFETIME. But, it has.
I believe that media has a lot to do with this. When I was a kid, if you were a GAY kid, it was a very common experience to imagine that, "I am the only one OUT THERE." (I didn't think that, personally, because I read the encyclopedia, and biographies, and knew there were lots of amazing gay men out there to emulate - from Michelangelo, to Sir Noel Coward - LOL! I DID think, though, that my road was going to be a tough one!)
Just over the past decade, though, the spread of the Internet, and the democratization of personal expression - through blogs and other such instruments - has meant that young people no longer have to suffer in silence. And, they don't.
Even popular television has played a role. Indeed, I think that silly shows like "Will and Grace", and various dramas that have showcased gay characters, have made people think twice. And have probably done more for the condition of homosexual men and women, than any Gay Pride event, or march.
It is well-demonstrated, Kyle, that the single biggest predictor of whether a straight person will be tolerant of gay people, or not - - - is whether he or she personally knows and loves someone who is gay. Thanks to mass media, and social media, and the increasing willingness of gay people to "come out" at the workplace and in their families - almost everyone in Canada, the U.S., and Europe, now knows of a friend or family member who is gay. And so, the question becomes, for them, much less one of ideology or dogma, but one of PERSONAL FEELING and RELATIONSHIP - which is as it should be.
So, Kyle - YES. There is always going to be a hard core of anti-gay activists, who, for ideological or theological or personal reasons, will do their very best to make life MISERABLE, for gay people. And they will fight even harder to hang on to their prejudice, as the world changes. However, the younger generation (even young Republicans, and young evangelical Christians) are not buying this, as they used to. More and more, people in the middle ("the silent majority") are open to accepting gay people.
What we must do, I think, is simply to be ourselves. And show that we are just as capable as anyone, of being good Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, or agnostics - that we are just as capable as anyone of being good citizens, business-people, military service people, or public servants - and that we live our lives in very normal ways, simply seeking to love and be loved, and care for our families: JUST LIKE ANYONE ELSE, in the WORLD.
By this simple means, Kyle - the evils that you have described, will be conquered. And (I think) sooner, rather than later.
Hugs, your,
"A" XOXOXOXOXOXOXO
*"You ask - what is our aim? I can answer, in one word. It is victory. Victory at all costs. Victory despite all terrors. Victory, no matter how long and hard the road might be - for without victory, there is no survival." ~ Sir Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill, at his inaugural speech as Prime Minister, May 10, 1940.
Amiable Ambi,
Amiable Ambi,
I do agree with everything you say. I am not paranoid, just extremely cautious, considering I'm smack in the middle of the Bible Belt. It's always good to be educated and informed about your situation. We also need to know enough to come together if the proverbial shit hits the fan for a while. I like what Churchill said. We can have that victory if the public learns to like what they see in us. Therefore I will state that I do not care for name calling or put downs amongst our "tribe". I try to be careful with that. I enjoyed your video "Cavalry overture". You are so thoughtful. Thank-you
I know you are right about waiting a few more years. But history does have a way of repeating itself, especially with a warrior nation such as ours. Don't forget "Stonewall" in the late '60s. In future posts I will kowtow to the historian to sort it all out and set me "straight?"
lol.
Kisses, love & affection,
Kyle, XXOOXXOOXXOO
Amiable Ambi,
I do agree with everything you say. I am not paranoid, just extremely cautious, considering I'm smack in the middle of the Bible Belt. It's always good to be educated and informed about your situation. We also need to know enough to come together if the proverbial shit hits the fan for a while. I like what Churchill said. We can have that victory if the public learns to like what they see in us. Therefore I will state that I do not care for name calling or put downs amongst our "tribe". I try to be careful with that. I enjoyed your video "Cavalry overture". You are so thoughtful. Thank-you
I know you are right about waiting a few more years. But history does have a way of repeating itself, especially with a warrior nation such as ours. Don't forget "Stonewall" in the late '60s. In future posts I will kowtow to the historian to sort it all out and set me "straight?"
lol.
Kisses, love & affection,
Kyle, XXOOXXOOXXOO
Last edited:
Louis,
Louis,
I enjoyed your post. What I don't understand are the state laws that are being passed regarding religious freedom. Did everyone forget (or never knew) why the first Europeans came here to settle? The Mayflower set sail after their first ship (Speedwell) started to take on water.
They knew they couldn't go back to England where they would more than likely be put to death. The King (George VI AMBI?) declared himself the head of the church and the country would only tolerate his religious beliefs (Catholicism) by law. So the Speedwell sailed on to Leyden Holland where they stayed until they had the money to hire another ship and crew, the Mayflower.
OK, I think the point is< They came here in 1620 for religious freedom. It seems to me that this country was founded so we could all enjoy our own spirituality. We've had religious freedom, thanks to a few brave religious Brits, since 1620.
It's not about religious freedom, but discrimination.
Is it a scam, or are there that many people who don't know our history?
Louis,
I enjoyed your post. What I don't understand are the state laws that are being passed regarding religious freedom. Did everyone forget (or never knew) why the first Europeans came here to settle? The Mayflower set sail after their first ship (Speedwell) started to take on water.
They knew they couldn't go back to England where they would more than likely be put to death. The King (George VI AMBI?) declared himself the head of the church and the country would only tolerate his religious beliefs (Catholicism) by law. So the Speedwell sailed on to Leyden Holland where they stayed until they had the money to hire another ship and crew, the Mayflower.
OK, I think the point is< They came here in 1620 for religious freedom. It seems to me that this country was founded so we could all enjoy our own spirituality. We've had religious freedom, thanks to a few brave religious Brits, since 1620.
It's not about religious freedom, but discrimination.
Is it a scam, or are there that many people who don't know our history?
Last edited:
In England, the Anglican system of church government was taken over by King Henry VIII. Influenced by movements for reform and by his desire to legitimize his marriage to Anne Boleyn in 1533 (without the blessing of the Pope) after divorcing his first wife Catherine of Aragon, Henry's government influenced Parliament to enact the 1st Act of Supremacy in 1534. It declared the reigning sovereign of England to be "the only supreme head on earth of the Church in England". In the reign of Elizabeth I, this title was changed to Supreme Governor of the Church of England, an act still in effect. The Church of England thus replaced Catholicism as the established church.
The underground churches in England and exiles from Holland provided about 35 out of the 102 passengers on the Mayflower, which sailed from London in July 1620. They became known in history as the Pilgrim Fathers. The early Congregationalists sought to separate themselves from the Anglican church in every possible way and even eschewed having church buildings. They met in homes for many years.
Rhode Island (1636), Connecticut (1636), New Jersey, and Pennsylvania (1682), founded by Baptist Roger Williams, Congregationalist Thomas Hooker, and Quaker William Penn, respectively, combined religious freedom with the democratic form of government that Separatist Congregationalists (Pilgrim Fathers) and Puritans had developed in Plymouth Colony (1620) and Massachusetts Bay Colony (1628). These colonies became safe havens for persecuted religious minorities. Catholics and Jews also had full citizenship and free exercise of their faiths. Williams, Hooker, Penn, and their friends were firmly convinced that democracy and freedom of conscience were the will of God. Williams gave the most profound theological reason: As faith is the free gift of the Holy Spirit, it cannot be forced upon a person. Therefore strict separation of church and state has to be kept. Pennsylvania was the only colony that retained unlimited religious freedom until the foundation of the United States. The inseparable connection of democracy, freedom of religion, and the other forms of freedom became the political and legal basis of the new nation. In particular, Baptists and Presbyterians demanded vigorously and successfully the disestablishment of the Anglican and Congregational state churches that had existed in most colonies since the seventeenth century.
in 1704, an Act was passed "to prevent the growth of Popery in this Province", preventing Catholics from holding political office. Full religious toleration would not be restored in Maryland until the American Revolution, when Maryland's Charles Carroll of Carrollton signed the American Declaration of Independence. religious freedom was all about discrimination. the religious in each state wanted to protect their system from outsiders. it applied the jews, catholics, then blacks and now the gays. the arc of history does bend toward justice.
what George III, never understood was that by the grace of god and the assent of the people, he was king of the united kingdom. that included his subjects in the Americas. failing to hear the united colonies cry for justice, he lost his sovereignty. there being no one person fit for such sovereignty, the duty falls to each citizen. we exercise our sovereignty, in our own Congregation.
a hundred years ago, women couldn't vote.
The underground churches in England and exiles from Holland provided about 35 out of the 102 passengers on the Mayflower, which sailed from London in July 1620. They became known in history as the Pilgrim Fathers. The early Congregationalists sought to separate themselves from the Anglican church in every possible way and even eschewed having church buildings. They met in homes for many years.
Rhode Island (1636), Connecticut (1636), New Jersey, and Pennsylvania (1682), founded by Baptist Roger Williams, Congregationalist Thomas Hooker, and Quaker William Penn, respectively, combined religious freedom with the democratic form of government that Separatist Congregationalists (Pilgrim Fathers) and Puritans had developed in Plymouth Colony (1620) and Massachusetts Bay Colony (1628). These colonies became safe havens for persecuted religious minorities. Catholics and Jews also had full citizenship and free exercise of their faiths. Williams, Hooker, Penn, and their friends were firmly convinced that democracy and freedom of conscience were the will of God. Williams gave the most profound theological reason: As faith is the free gift of the Holy Spirit, it cannot be forced upon a person. Therefore strict separation of church and state has to be kept. Pennsylvania was the only colony that retained unlimited religious freedom until the foundation of the United States. The inseparable connection of democracy, freedom of religion, and the other forms of freedom became the political and legal basis of the new nation. In particular, Baptists and Presbyterians demanded vigorously and successfully the disestablishment of the Anglican and Congregational state churches that had existed in most colonies since the seventeenth century.
in 1704, an Act was passed "to prevent the growth of Popery in this Province", preventing Catholics from holding political office. Full religious toleration would not be restored in Maryland until the American Revolution, when Maryland's Charles Carroll of Carrollton signed the American Declaration of Independence. religious freedom was all about discrimination. the religious in each state wanted to protect their system from outsiders. it applied the jews, catholics, then blacks and now the gays. the arc of history does bend toward justice.
what George III, never understood was that by the grace of god and the assent of the people, he was king of the united kingdom. that included his subjects in the Americas. failing to hear the united colonies cry for justice, he lost his sovereignty. there being no one person fit for such sovereignty, the duty falls to each citizen. we exercise our sovereignty, in our own Congregation.
a hundred years ago, women couldn't vote.
Similar threads
