Who gets the award for best top turned bottom?

[tampa24]

If a model thinks they are only ever going to get praise for their work, they in opinion are delusional and need to grow up. Boys please drop the guilt here.

I admit Foxyman that on an intellectual level you are absolutely right that we viewers have the right to be honest in our ratings and reviews from our own subjective perceptions and opinions. You win the intellectual argument there.

That said, on an emotional level it's really tough to see (in real time) when your reviews, or the reviews of others, have deeply hurt someone else's feelings. Even more so when you are dealing with young guys whose level of self confidence is already still low at that point in their lives. Or still on shaky ground in the best of times. It sucks when you see that possibly the whole self-esteem and self-perception of a young 18-24 y/o human being has been knocked down a few pegs simply over the mistake of trying a job that he either wasn't qualified for, or was simply not ready for yet at that point of his level of worldliness and maturity. It can also feel worse from the standpoint of feeling like a group of adults as much as 20-50 years older than the model, is picking on a young kid.

It gets very tricky when you are dealing with a model who is not officially on the forum, and one who is actively posting.

I have been on both sides of this dilemma in saying what I thought was my honest opinion about models and their performances. Sometimes being the one who was very coarse and honest (from my own personal standpoint) in my reviews and opinions. Other times I've played the role of defender trying to be the peacemaker between a model on the forum and some hostile posts from others. In hindsight I have many regrets over the few times I was very forthright in my stronger negative feedback and opinions of models who were posting in the forum. I've never claimed to be perfect or infallible. On the other hand I've had no regrets at all over the last 12 years when I played the role of defender and peacemaker trying to assuage a model's hurt feelings over hostile negative opinions and reviews from others.

I think there's a lesson in there for me somewhere. But I'm not sure.

 

[Foxyman1961]

I appreciate that you read what Tampa and I wrote Foxyman. I wasn't going to elaborate as most people who read the forum today don't care much about the models of the past, but as long as you are interested, this is the back story to the best of my recollection.

Back in early 2013, Mark introduced two new models to us on the forum, without them ever appearing on the site. Apparently they were at the house filming their scenes and they both opted to join the forum. All we saw were their thumbnail pics. The two were:

Graham

Flint

Now that I look at Flint's profile pic, I don't think we even had seen that when they joined the forum. The two were very friendly and loved participating on the forum. Some of the forumites starting calling Graham, our "graham cracker" and we asked all kinds of personal questions to them regarding their dick size and stuff and they became great fun on the forum. When we asked how big Flint was and if he was cut or not, he teased us by saying to wait and find out, and a lot of anticipation had built up to finally see these two super friendly guys finally naked and having sex.

Then several weeks later their solos and scenes came out on the site. Graham had a cute face, but a very thin body and actually looked nervous as hell in his scenes, like a "deer in the headlights". And Flint, bless his heart was chubby and not a good performer either. Flint kept his password and checked in on the forum, and discovered that all of his fans of his forum banter were unhappy with his looks and his performance.

He came back on the forum to say something to the effect of, "I guess I choose the wrong profession and that porn is not for me, and I will try something else". It broke my heart, because he was such a sweet guy. it was a very unfortunate confluence of circumstances. That's how I remember the situation.

Thanks Mikeyank for the background story here. I can understand why you feel as you do from your comments. However I would point out that the blame for the failure of Flint as porn performer has to in part come from Flint himself. Now highinsight is a wonderful thing and I am looking at this from a 7 year time difference as I wasn't there at the time. It seems to me that Flint was a friendly, sociable guy, who enjoyed the banter on the forum. His mistake here was not being truthful and teasing you by not answering your questions. So what Flint effectively did was create an image of himself based on the forum comments which he did nothing to dissuade you from believing. When eventually his scene appeared he couldn't live up to the image he created and thus a backlash happened which upset him. Now I am assuming he got low scores for his performance, these would not come just from those members who are active on the forum, but from the Broke Straight Boys membership at large. I am also sure that his scores would have been discussed and he probably was made aware of this. Flint's comment about choosing the wrong profession I think needs to be looked at in context with this. So if I were you, yes feel sorry that you have lost a forumite member that you enjoyed banter with, but don't feel guilty that the forum caused this boy to lose his porn career because really he probably knew he wasn't cut out for this and would have gone anyway. One last thing remember since then there have been alot of boys on Broke Straight Boys, some would be in the same vain as Flint, do you feel guilty for each of these guys not making the grad, if the answer which I suspect would be no let the guilt on this one go. Enjoy the guys you really like such as Ethan Steel and Jake Spencer.

 

[Foxyman1961]

I admit Foxyman that on an intellectual level you are absolutely right that we viewers have the right to be honest in our ratings and reviews from our own subjective perceptions and opinions. You win the intellectual argument there.

That said, on an emotional level it's really tough to see (in real time) when your reviews, or the reviews of others, have deeply hurt someone else's feelings. Even more so when you are dealing with young guys whose level of self confidence is already still low at that point in their lives. Or still on shaky ground in the best of times. It sucks when you see that possibly the whole self-esteem and self-perception of a young 18-24 y/o human being has been knocked down a few pegs simply over the mistake of trying a job that he either wasn't qualified for, or was simply not ready for yet at that point of his level of worldliness and maturity. It can also feel worse from the standpoint of feeling like a group of adults as much as 20-50 years older than the model, is picking on a young kid.

It gets very tricky when you are dealing with a model who is not officially on the forum, and one who is actively posting.

I have been on both sides of this dilemma in saying what I thought was my honest opinion about models and their performances. Sometimes being the one who was very coarse and honest (from my own personal standpoint) in my reviews and opinions. Other times I've played the role of defender trying to be the peacemaker between a model on the forum and some hostile posts from others. In hindsight I have many regrets over the few times I was very forthright in my stronger negative feedback and opinions of models who were posting in the forum. I've never claimed to be perfect or infallible. On the other hand I've had no regrets at all over the last 12 years when I played the role of defender and peacemaker trying to assuage a model's hurt feelings over hostile negative opinions and reviews from others.

I think there's a lesson in there for me somewhere. But I'm not sure.

Thanks for your insightful thoughts here Tampa which I appreciate you sharing. I take your point about people's self confidence and comments being made which may hurt their feelings , especially if they are down on their luck. However I don't mean to sound unsympathetic to these guys plight but at the end of the day Broke Straight Boys is in the porn industry not a refuge for hard luck stories. Its purpose is to provide adult entertainment and to make its owners money. We as members of Broke Straight Boys finance this with our subscription and are asked to score their performance each time a scene is released. These scores are used to gauge the popularity of the models, it is supplemented by the comments which are made here on the forum. The comments here are a way for members to let the models know if their performance is what they want to see. So if a performer is delivering what both the forum and the scores show as being below par performance Broke Straight Boys can address this. Remember not all members of Broke Straight Boys are on the forum so the scores are key here to get a true reflection of what the performance is like. I therefore do not see that your argument that we could be seen as picking on a performer is true, I see it as a way to help them improve. I take for example the comments that James has made on his performance with Masyn Thorne, he sees the comments we make as helpful way for him to improve to give us the scenes we want. I do however realise that some people are more sensitive than others and the role of defender of their performance is a valid one and provides a balanced point of view. I also appreciate how Broke Straight Boys looks after its models while in their care and think it is comenderable that they do this to create a family environment for these guys but they are not here to provide charity, it's a money making operation that we as members benefit from. The models get paid for their scenes so it's in their interest to give the best performance they can.

 

[Jaybifla]

Now I’ll have to go back and watch Flint’s videos. You know if I had been here, I would have probably shown him some love. I hear all the arguments, and I don’t have any control over what anybody says here regarding models or their performances, but I always try to lead with kindness. Kindness is a choice. You can give constructive criticism without being unkind. If I have ever been unkind, it has been about being too noisy, hair color, body hair, clothes or underwear that was worn and minor performance things. I do not respond on a person’s natural look, weight, penis size, etc. I just don’t think it’s necessary to tear down a person so much over a pornographic performance. I wasn’t here for Flint or most of the models from the past, but I was here for Denver. I was very uncomfortable. I’m sure it’s already a heartbreak for a model to see when their scores aren’t that great, but to have to read horrible things about yourself regarding your personal appearance would be devastating for someone like me. I’m sure everyone has a different opinion on this subject, and many probably disagree with me. I have come off hateful myself to other members when I’ve defended people like Ryan Pitt, and I apologize for that. I am just very sensitive when it comes to criticism over another person’s appearance. I really try to find beauty in everyone.

 

[Jaybifla]

As I said, I am going to go back and check out some of Flint's stuff. From what I have seen so far, he does have a little extra weight around the middle, but he isn't fat by any means. And his type of body is so in at the moment. He might get more love today than he did then. I'd take his body type any day over an extremely skinny guy. And he has such a cute face.....super cute. Ya'll crazy...lol

 

[mikeyank]

Now I’ll have to go back and watch Flint’s videos. You know if I had been here, I would have probably shown him some love. I hear all the arguments, and I don’t have any control over what anybody says here regarding models or their performances, but I always try to lead with kindness. Kindness is a choice. You can give constructive criticism without being unkind. If I have ever been unkind, it has been about being too noisy, hair color, body hair, clothes or underwear that was worn and minor performance things. I do not respond on a person’s natural look, weight, penis size, etc. I just don’t think it’s necessary to tear down a person so much over a pornographic performance. I wasn’t here for Flint or most of the models from the past, but I was here for Denver. I was very uncomfortable. I’m sure it’s already a heartbreak for a model to see when their scores aren’t that great, but to have to read horrible things about yourself regarding your personal appearance would be devastating for someone like me. I’m sure everyone has a different opinion on this subject, and many probably disagree with me. I have come off hateful myself to other members when I’ve defended people like Ryan Pitt, and I apologize for that. I am just very sensitive when it comes to criticism over another person’s appearance. I really try to find beauty in everyone.

No question that you have a very wide variety of taste in the boys who've appeared here in your time on the forum, Jay. And I admire your openness in showing love to a wide variety of models. It's funny that when you said Denver, I was confused as I was thinking about Denver Grand who was very popular, while not a favorite of mine. But I realized that you meant Denver Dubois from last year.

The situation with Flint was unique in that he was a fan favorite on the forum before we ever had a chance to see him perform, and he did seem crushed to have all his fans turn on him when they saw him naked and trying to have gay sex. He was only partnered with fellow newbie Graham and veteran Paul Canon and he only topped in his two fucking scenes. Perhaps he was a true straight boy who wanted to try "gay for pay" porn and discovered it was not for him. In the case of Graham, the wonderful photographer Damian Christopher took great stills of him with a great hairstyle and I even put him in my favorites and to this day he is still one of only 17 favorites on my list, but when he got naked and performed, he was not comfortable either having gay sex on camera. He was partnered with Flint, Paul and the great Jason Matthews.

Here is an eight minute BTS called, "Diamond Cutter - Behind The Scenes" 03-12-2013, featuring Graham, Sabrina, Paul, Jason and a cameo by Damien Kyle

https://members.brokestraightboys.com/play/OTUw/diamond-cutter---behind-the-scenes

That week was also Graham's only shoot week at Broke Straight Boys and to my knowledge he was also through with porn. While all models did not turn out to be stars, what I loved back then was that most were unknown amateurs, and not knowing what they would do or how they would perform was a large part of the "magic" of Broke Straight Boys for me back then.

 

[mikeyank]

As I said, I am going to go back and check out some of Flint's stuff. From what I have seen so far, he does have a little extra weight around the middle, but he isn't fat by any means. And his type of body is so in at the moment. He might get more love today than he did then. I'd take his body type any day over an extremely skinny guy. And he has such a cute face.....super cute. Ya'll crazy...lol

Please do give us your review Jay. I always love your take on models and scenes, even scenes from seven years ago. lol

 

[kgmets]

I admit Foxyman that on an intellectual level you are absolutely right that we viewers have the right to be honest in our ratings and reviews from our own subjective perceptions and opinions. You win the intellectual argument there.

That said, on an emotional level it's really tough to see (in real time) when your reviews, or the reviews of others, have deeply hurt someone else's feelings. Even more so when you are dealing with young guys whose level of self confidence is already still low at that point in their lives. Or still on shaky ground in the best of times. It sucks when you see that possibly the whole self-esteem and self-perception of a young 18-24 y/o human being has been knocked down a few pegs simply over the mistake of trying a job that he either wasn't qualified for, or was simply not ready for yet at that point of his level of worldliness and maturity. It can also feel worse from the standpoint of feeling like a group of adults as much as 20-50 years older than the model, is picking on a young kid.

It gets very tricky when you are dealing with a model who is not officially on the forum, and one who is actively posting.

I have been on both sides of this dilemma in saying what I thought was my honest opinion about models and their performances. Sometimes being the one who was very coarse and honest (from my own personal standpoint) in my reviews and opinions. Other times I've played the role of defender trying to be the peacemaker between a model on the forum and some hostile posts from others. In hindsight I have many regrets over the few times I was very forthright in my stronger negative feedback and opinions of models who were posting in the forum. I've never claimed to be perfect or infallible. On the other hand I've had no regrets at all over the last 12 years when I played the role of defender and peacemaker trying to assuage a model's hurt feelings over hostile negative opinions and reviews from others.

I think there's a lesson in there for me somewhere. But I'm not sure.

Excellent post. That is why I try to stress the positive when I post on a scene and try to avoid the negative.

 

[Jaybifla]

Please do give us your review Jay. I always love your take on models and scenes, even scenes from seven years ago. lol

Well. I just don’t see enough negatives to get rid of him all together so quickly. Of course there’s room for improvement, but there was a solo scene, an oral scene, and 2 fuck scenes. Not really enough opportunity for growth. He has a very cute face, so I’d back my ass up to that...LOL. Who knows where he would fit in today with the current membership. I haven’t read any of the negative feedback and probably won’t, but I’m actually quite surprised he was hated on so much. He just seemed quite timid and nervous, but what a smile and cute face.

 

[Jaybifla]

Well. I just don’t see enough negatives to get rid of him all together so quickly. Of course there’s room for improvement, but there was a solo scene, an oral scene, and 2 fuck scenes. Not really enough opportunity for growth. He has a very cute face, so I’d back my ass up to that...LOL. Who knows where he would fit in today with the current membership. I haven’t read any of the negative feedback and probably won’t, but I’m actually quite surprised he was hated on so much. He just seemed quite timid and nervous, but what a smile and cute face.

BTW, I was talking about Flint. I’ll get back to ya on Graham.

 

[mikeyank]

BTW, I was talking about Flint. I’ll get back to ya on Graham.

Please do Jay. I value your opinion very much and I look forward to your comments on our little “graham cracker”. Lol.

 

[tampa24]

Thanks for your insightful thoughts here Tampa which I appreciate you sharing. I take your point about people's self confidence and comments being made which may hurt their feelings , especially if they are down on their luck. However I don't mean to sound unsympathetic to these guys plight but at the end of the day Broke Straight Boys is in the porn industry not a refuge for hard luck stories. Its purpose is to provide adult entertainment and to make its owners money. We as members of Broke Straight Boys finance this with our subscription and are asked to score their performance each time a scene is released. These scores are used to gauge the popularity of the models, it is supplemented by the comments which are made here on the forum. The comments here are a way for members to let the models know if their performance is what they want to see. So if a performer is delivering what both the forum and the scores show as being below par performance Broke Straight Boys can address this. Remember not all members of Broke Straight Boys are on the forum so the scores are key here to get a true reflection of what the performance is like. I therefore do not see that your argument that we could be seen as picking on a performer is true, I see it as a way to help them improve. I take for example the comments that James has made on his performance with Masyn Thorne, he sees the comments we make as helpful way for him to improve to give us the scenes we want. I do however realise that some people are more sensitive than others and the role of defender of their performance is a valid one and provides a balanced point of view. I also appreciate how Broke Straight Boys looks after its models while in their care and think it is comenderable that they do this to create a family environment for these guys but they are not here to provide charity, it's a money making operation that we as members benefit from. The models get paid for their scenes so it's in their interest to give the best performance they can.

Thanks for responding Foxyman!

When you put it in strict terms of black and white, it seems intrinsically obvious that we should always be honest in our negative feedback of models and their performances. If we see a scene we feel deserves a 1 or 2, we shouldn't feel the need to sugarcoat it and give the scene a 3 or 4 just to spare the model's feelings. The people who run the site need to know which models are truly the most popular so they can retain the paying members they already have and hopefully attract new ones.

Things get more complicated though in dealing with things written in the forum. That's where black and white isn't such an easy line of distinction. There are so many shades of gray with even some moral and ethical boundaries that come into question. No. You don't want to have to lie and say you like a model or love his mediocre performance(s), when you don't. Some people will express negative feedback in a truthful but more tactful way in speaking about a model who is posting and obviously reading his reviews. Others don't feel any need to be bothered with nuances like being polite and diplomatic. They're much less filtered. Then there are some in that latter category who take it to an extreme. They may just throw out some vicious verbal cuts from the safe perch of anonymity and then haul a** out of the thread. And thereby leave a mess for others to awkwardly try to walk back a little bit in order to spare at least some of the model's feelings.

So again, not that you are wrong at all in anything you've said Foxyman. Just that there are some shades of gray where the best course of action in every situation in an online forum or other social media is not as obvious and easy as we would like it to be.

 

[Foxyman1961]

Well. I just don’t see enough negatives to get rid of him all together so quickly. Of course there’s room for improvement, but there was a solo scene, an oral scene, and 2 fuck scenes. Not really enough opportunity for growth. He has a very cute face, so I’d back my ass up to that...LOL. Who knows where he would fit in today with the current membership. I haven’t read any of the negative feedback and probably won’t, but I’m actually quite surprised he was hated on so much. He just seemed quite timid and nervous, but what a smile and cute face.

I agree with you Jay, I went back and watched his scene with Paul. Yes it was awkward and I must admit at times uncomfortable but I am not sure why he would have got so much negative comments but this was seven years ago and tastes do change. Like you I didn't really see Flint as chubby but could imagine that seven years ago it may have been an issue. Flint probably would have done well now.

 

[Kermit]

For me Drake was one of the best straight guys who turned bottom, I have not seen a film he made in which he was anything other than excellent. In addition he had a great body.

 

[Repareur]

One of my all time favorites was Damien “Give up the Cheeks” Nichols! He was a straightish married guy with a kid whose wife sent him out to get fucked and thus bring home the bacon. I hope she fried it? Lol. Anyway we definitely need more wives like her.

Here is Damien’s Cherry Pop with Kage. I think Kage really enjoyed this one as did I. It’s one of the best scenes on Broke Straight Boys in my opinion. Kage was also a great bottom but he continued to protest so I’m not sure he was one that turned into a big bottom. When he went on to another sight briefly he was a bottom. I think the phrase I thing thy protest to much my dear, definitely applies to Kage.

https://members.brokestraightboys.com/play/MTgzNg==/cage-fucks-damien-s-tight-ass

 

[mikeyank]

One of my all time favorites was Damien “Give up the Cheeks” Nichols! He was a straightish married guy with a kid whose wife sent him out to get fucked and thus bring home the bacon. I hope she fried it? Lol. Anyway we definitely need more wives like her.

Here is Damien’s Cherry Pop with Kage. I think Kage really enjoyed this one as did I. It’s one of the best scenes on Broke Straight Boys in my opinion. Kage was also a great bottom but he continued to protest so I’m not sure he was one that turned into a big bottom. When he went on to another sight briefly he was a bottom. I think the phrase I thing thy protest to much my dear, definitely applies to Kage.

https://members.brokestraightboys.com/play/MTgzNg==/cage-fucks-damien-s-tight-ass

View attachment 22088

View attachment 22089

I really liked Damien Nichols as well. A very cute, very believably straight guy!!!!

 

[Repareur]

One of my all time favorites was Damien “Give up the Cheeks” Nichols! He was a straightish married guy with a kid whose wife sent him out to get fucked and thus bring home the bacon. I hope she fried it? Lol. Anyway we definitely need more wives like her.

Here is Damien’s Cherry Pop with Kage. I think Kage really enjoyed this one as did I. It’s one of the best scenes on Broke Straight Boys in my opinion. Kage was also a great bottom but he continued to protest so I’m not sure he was one that turned into a big bottom. When he went on to another sight briefly he was a bottom. I think the phrase I thing thy protest to much my dear, definitely applies to Kage.

https://members.brokestraightboys.com/play/MTgzNg==/cage-fucks-damien-s-tight-ass

View attachment 22088

View attachment 22089

Here is Kage’s cherry pop. Also on my list of favorites. He was and is married with children and a hot ass. He loves to top. I think he’s the kind of straighter guy who gets off on dominating another male. That makes it even better when he gets fucked.

https://members.brokestraightboys.com/play/MTEzMQ==/sergio-valen-fucks-cage-kafig

 

[Jaybifla]

Please do Jay. I value your opinion very much and I look forward to your comments on our little “graham cracker”. Lol.

My feelings are about the same with Graham. Totally lovable guy, but I think he needed different scene partners. And he should’ve had his hair styled like he did for his photo shoot. His photo shoot was hot. I think he would also be more accepted in today’s Broke Straight Boys membership. Hell, everybody loved Marcus Rivers and at one time referred to him as the number 2 bottom on the site. He has a similar physique to Marcus. #bringbackthegrahamcracker

 

[mikeyank]

My feelings are about the same with Graham. Totally lovable guy, but I think he needed different scene partners. And he should’ve had his hair styled like he did for his photo shoot. His photo shoot was hot. I think he would also be more accepted in today’s Broke Straight Boys membership. Hell, everybody loved Marcus Rivers and at one time referred to him as the number 2 bottom on the site. He has a similar physique to Marcus. #bringbackthegrahamcracker

I LOVE IT!!!!!! lol

 

[tampa24]

My feelings are about the same with Graham. Totally lovable guy, but I think he needed different scene partners. And he should’ve had his hair styled like he did for his photo shoot. His photo shoot was hot. I think he would also be more accepted in today’s Broke Straight Boys membership. Hell, everybody loved Marcus Rivers and at one time referred to him as the number 2 bottom on the site. He has a similar physique to Marcus. #bringbackthegrahamcracker

It took a few years but I see some other people reached the same conclusion as I did regarding Graham's out of control hairstyle. I truly believe to this day that even though his performances were lacking in themselves, that his unkempt looking hair really did play a part in further hurting his ratings. Damian Christopher was a professional photographer. And when he was given the assignment of doing a still photoshoot of Graham I'm guessing his instinct and desire for what looked the most flattering and photogenic on his camera, resulted in him compelling Graham to comb it out and straighten the hair to a more aesthetically pleasing look.

The director Clay on the other hand had many blind spots when it came to filming. I was never a huge fan of his during his tenure here. Though I admit at times he did give us some really good 5 star scenes (and models) also. As a director he was rather inconsistent however. (IMO) Overall I'd give him a C+ or a B-.

He should have given Graham the same ultimatum about straightening his hair that Damian did. But again I think Clay was either truly clueless on that point, (blind spot, whatever) or he just didn't want to be bothered with even a very mild form of confrontation with the models on issues of their appearance. Like it was too much to ask to make sure his models (who were paid employees) would do everything reasonably possible to maximize their good looks for his own camera, and for the sake of the viewers.

He also let Zeno Kostas shoot a whole set of scenes with very wet hair (coming almost directly from the shower) that looked very unflattering on camera. Yet Clay apparently either didn't care or didn't feel it was worth sparing the extra time in the schedule to give Zeno Kostas's hair extra time to dry, or ask him to speed things up with a blowdryer before filming. I was very disappointed with most of Zeno Kostas's scenes from that batch because of that issue with his hair. Even though I always loved Zeno Kostas and felt his performances in the scenes were sill very good.

I've always felt that since the models are being hired (and paid) on the basis of their natural beauty and their pleasing physical attributes...and hopefully talent too...that they should show up on set looking their best and putting their best foot forward. Like they were going on a date. (Other than the casual clothes that they're gonna take off quickly anyway. haha) They shouldn't show up to film looking like they just rolled out of bed on a late Sunday morning/early afternoon after a blackout weekend bender. haha If something important and unflattering about their appearance innocently slips the model's notice, it really is up to the director and staff to be the ones to point it out and politely but firmly ask the model to remedy it. Clay was in mind easily the worst on this. Guys could show up on his set looking any which way, and he'd film them without a peep.

All this to finally say I guess that the post-Clay directors like Johnny and the current ones of Bryce, along with Sha and any others on set nowadays, seem to do a much better job on this point. They didn't/don't let models get away with filming on their sets with really bad personal grooming or other issues such as dirty greasy looking hair, really yellow teeth in need of a professional dental cleaning, uncombed and unkempt looking hair, haircuts/hair styles that are very unflattering, soaking wet hair that looks like a drenched poodle (haha), badly unshaven faces, badly razor-burned pubes, nasty rashes, unsightly toenails, etc. haha Catching things like those and trying to remedy them ahead of time is also an important role of filming.