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USA - 9 year old girl kills her firing instructor

Wow really?! I expected retaliation about that :)

Much love

Shy

Not from him but me in response to Dan's post about making humour of it. Sorry but I disagree but that's life. Back on track, for America to be taken seriously by the rest of the world then they must combat and win the war on guns. Failure to do this just gets such states like Palestine and others to laugh at them when the American's condemn their actions.
 
it wasn't the little girl or the weapon that killed the instructor. it was bad judgment that killed the instructor. the only thing that will keep guns out of the wrong hands is the exercise of good judgment.
to have to remember shooting a man, in the head, for the rest of her life, will be a living hell.
the right to keep and bear arms has become wrapped in the right of self-defense which extends to children. those in the womb are protected by the right to defend third parties.
a right meant to defend the states became personal right.
when I look at an ivy covered building, I see a building being damaged. the ivy has become part of the structure. because people expect ivy-covered walls, they have ivy-covered walls. once it starts, it is expected to continue.
now that it has become this far reaching personal right, there may be no way of dealing with gun issues. little girls with guns, mad men with guns, angry men with guns.

jon, a president is only as powerful as congress will allow. within those limits he can act until congress votes to stop him.
I believe as a people, we have a right to know whether there is any reason you should not have a gun. age, mental health, criminal violence, and history of violence would encompass wrong hands to me. my opinion and the proper fare will get you a train ride.

I agree. The right to bear arms will never go away. It amazes me though how opposed people are to proper background checks.I do not get why a person's right to own a gun is more important than knowing if you are "crazy" or a criminal who should not have a gun. I have a feeling you and I would be on the same train!
 
I agree. The right to bear arms will never go away. It amazes me though how opposed people are to proper background checks.I do not get why a person's right to own a gun is more important than knowing if you are "crazy" or a criminal who should not have a gun. I have a feeling you and I would be on the same train!

Sometimes a country's constitution needs to be changed for the better. Times have changed from Wyatt Earp and the likes of and it's about time you made another amendment with respect to guns.
 
Not from him but me in response to Dan's post about making humour of it. Sorry but I disagree but that's life. Back on track, for America to be taken seriously by the rest of the world then they must combat and win the war on guns. Failure to do this just gets such states like Palestine and others to laugh at them when the American's condemn their actions.
Jon please believe me when I say I meant no harm or disrespect to you or this topic as I understand 100% what a serious topic this is that's why I apologised straight after as sometimes my brain doesn't think before I act. I would never try to make humour of it it's just my mistake and error. In my personal belief I do think that the gun law in the states is far to lax as you would think that they would learn by the past things that has happened that guns are not a good thing. I understand it's the right to bare or carry arms in certain states but just because it's their right doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do and there needs to be far stricter rules on who qualifies to posses a weapon. I apologise for any offence that I may have caused. Dan x
 
changing our constitution to allow for gun control is not as easy as it sounds. prisoners of our constitution and customs we will have to wait for the court to return gun regulations back to the states. the states will have to deal with this issue.
 
changing our constitution to allow for gun control is not as easy as it sounds. prisoners of our constitution and customs we will have to wait for the court to return gun regulations back to the states. the states will have to deal with this issue.
I know it wouldn't be easy but as my gran used to say to me "anything that's to easy isn't worth doing" I know the saying is a bit stupid but it sort of makes sense America is a wonderful place full of fantastic opportunities for everyone but I feel if the law on guns was tougher it would be an even better country and I'm not just talking about America here as other countries have the same problems it's just that America is in the public eye so much that these things get noticed an awful lot easier. X
 
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changing our constitution to allow for gun control is not as easy as it sounds. prisoners of our constitution and customs we will have to wait for the court to return gun regulations back to the states. the states will have to deal with this issue.

There will be no Constitutional Amendment to back off on the 2nd Amendment. Our Founding Fathers made it very difficult to amend the Constitution passed on good principle. Amendments do need to be difficult to get through the system. Unfortunately, I do not see this as a State rights issue. It should be, but I'd bet you and I could list off the handful of States that would pass stronger gun control. Now that I think about.... maybe we couldn't do that. Regardless of someone's politically views, both parties are heavily influenced by the NRA at all levels of our government.

Just an observation... but isn't it interesting that most of the comments have been from our friends from the UK? Not too many comments from US citizens. I'm not sure if that says anything... just interesting.
 
I know there are gangs in Britain's larger cities; when they go at each other, do they use clubs?
 
Sometimes a country's constitution needs to be changed for the better. Times have changed from Wyatt Earp and the likes of and it's about time you made another amendment with respect to guns.

I wish it were that simple. Guns aren't the only issue here. The US doesn't just have a gun culture; we have an unhealthy appreciation of violence. Really, guns are just a means to an end. You can take them away and there will be less fatalities for sure, but if you don't deal with the underlying root of the violence culture, nothing in America will change. We'll just find other ways to kill. And if there's one thing Americans are really great at, it's avoiding debate about the problems that plague our country. Just look at what happened in Ferguson, and still people don't want to talk about racial issues. SMH
I hate to say it but I think guns are here to stay.
 
I'm with you on this one Jon. I don't think Obama will be able to do anything about it with the NRA's political and economic influence.

And as for mrfrc's comment about not understanding the complexities of the gun situation I think that it is fairly simple. Assholes continue to think they have a right to own a lethal weapon and innocent civilians die needlessly as a result. Somehow most of the rest of the western world gets on ok without having firearms at home.

You're right Shy.
 
I know there are gangs in Britain's larger cities; when they go at each other, do they use clubs?

No but in the Uk gun crime is pretty rare. Also these guys would be arrested if found in possession of a gun, not congratulated by the government on what a hot lookin rifle they had lol
 
No but in the Uk gun crime is pretty rare. Also these guys would be arrested if found in possession of a gun, not congratulated by the government on what a hot lookin rifle they had lol

Absolutely Shy - I guess Stowie is a supporter of the NRA or as a previous poster stated, someone who does not want to talk about it so he is deflecting the subject to another country.
 
No but in the Uk gun crime is pretty rare. Also these guys would be arrested if found in possession of a gun, not congratulated by the government on what a hot lookin rifle they had lol
well said, I couldnt of said it better my self. Dan x
 
As an attorney and as a gun owner I have some observations to make.

1. The right to possess firearms is not unlimited in the United States and the Supreme Court has regularly ruled as such. But the NRA and a very vocal minority which supports them seems to think that it is.

2. The "Wild West" was not as wild as it is shown in the movies. In towns people did not walk around armed and indeed most cities and towns had ordinances prohibiting people form doing so. Out in the countryside people might go around armed but there was a valid reason back then - hostile natives, wild animals and no law enforcement. But even in the very large cities which had gangs - such as New York or Boston, the gangs did not go around armed with firearms. If they did they would have been shot dead by the cops. They carried saps, clubs and the like.

3. I have been around firearms since I was a small child. My father was an avid hunter and my brother and I received firearm training at an early age. We knew how to handle them and what to do and not do with a firearm. If we had even thought about disobeying my dad we would not have been able to sit down for a week. When the firearms were not being serviced or used they were locked in a gun closet and the ammo was stored in a separate locked closet.

4. This family and this gun range where this man was killed should be prosecuted for criminal negligence. No one in their right mind would ever allow a child that young access to a weapon that powerful under any circumstances.

5. I am sick of this nonsense about how "guns don't kill people, people kill people". Of course people kill people and people behaving badly with dangerous equipment kill people more quickly than people without that equipment. We do not let a 9 year old hop behind the wheel of an automobile or in the cockpit of an aircraft. We do not give 9 year olds butcher knives and let them run amok.

6. I believe anyone want to own a firearm should undergo a rigorous background check and a gun safety course. And not just 15 minutes in a fire range with some old fart showing him or her how to load and aim the gun. I mean a rigorous program involving the proper handling and use of fire arms.

7. Obama is in a difficult situation because he is not going to get the votes for a constitutional amendment to change the constitution and I am not convinced we need to do that. But worse is the fact that the Republicans are using this issue as a wedge to rile up their base claiming that Obama wants to disarm the public completely. It is total BS but that has never stopped the ignorant from believing stupid lies in any country. It is far too easy to circumvent gun control laws in effect now in this country. This is how firearms are make their way into the hands of criminals who should not be in possession of therm in the United States as well as in Mexico.

8. I am not a member of the NRA and I find them reprehensible. They do not represent responsible gun owners, they represent the firearms makers who provide the vast of their funding.
 
Hey, thanks Jon, for raising this:

This is surely one of the most upsetting stories to come out of the U.S.A. in quite some time. And I say this as someone who loves and admires the United States, for many of its achievements; who counts many Americans as his best friends (despite what some sceptics on here might presume); and who is dating an American.

However, this is MADNESS. And part and parcel of a subculture (which doesn't represent the majority of Americans, I think, but a large and vocal MINORITY, spearheaded by the NRA, which I regard as a terrorist organization) that believes handguns in CHURCH, and handguns wielded by teachers in elementary schools, are the best way to combat violence in society.

I grew up on a farm, in Canada. My Dad had a .22 rifle, and a shotgun - which were needed for various forms of pest control. My step-sister's son is a celebrated owner of a hunting store, and instructs prospective hunters in the proper use of firearms. Farmers and hunters need firearms. (Though they ought to be properly trained and certified in the USE of them; I don't think there is a country in the Western world that doesn't require a driver's licence, for someone who plans to get behind the wheel. . . why shouldn't similar training and certification be required of people before they own, and use, firearms???)

However - in a civilized society - no one needs a handgun. And no one sure as hell needs an UZI. Or a Bushmaster. Perhaps trained and licensed target-shooters ought to be able to own handguns, for the purposes of target-shooting: but beyond that, NO. And military-purpose firearms ought to be restricted, by law, to military uses, ONLY. PERIOD.

I don't think there is anything "complex" about this issue, whatsoever. I think the facts are as clear as a bright-blue Texas sky.

*The NRA is a terrorist organization, on a par with Hamas, or Hezbollah, which advocates death and destruction in churches and schools and wherever it can happen - as long as there benefactors in the gun industry, can make more money. They have long since ceased to represent ordinary gun-owners; they are highly paid lobbyists serving corporate masters, and every time there is a mass shooting (as at Columbine or at Newtown) - they generate more profits for their masters, by ramping up hysteria and inducing their partisans to buy even more guns. http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-industry-funds-nra-2013-1

*The United States doesn't have the highest rate of gun-related violence in the ENTIRE world (it's safer than Honduras, or Uruguay): but it does have the highest rate of gun-related violence in the DEVELOPED world. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...homicides-compare-with-the-rest-of-the-world/

(Most recent stats ~ though precise year-to-year comparisons are difficult, given differences in the gathering of vital statistics ~ gun deaths per 100,000 of the population are approximately 0.25 in the United Kingdom; 0.46 in The Kingdom of the Netherlands; 1.06 in Australia; 1.24 in Germany; 2.38 in Canada; 3.01 in France; and 10.30, in the U.S.A. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

*After the massacre of innocents at Sandy Hook, there did seem to be a moment of national introspection, and reflection, in the U.S.A. Many people who had hitherto been silent, came forth and said, "This must never happen again." There was serious political discussion. The NRA even held its peace for a day or two. . . before it finally emerged to suggest that if only the teachers in that school had been armed with guns, everything would have been OK. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/nra-wayne-lapierre_n_2348277.html

And, of course - nothing happened, in terms of legislation or policy - because, to a certain large, vocal, and RICH sector of American society, the right to own guns and USE them in an unlegislated and unrestricted fashion. . . is an article of RELIGIOUS FAITH.

*BTW, here is a MAP of all the school shootings, since the Sandy Hook massacre, which is quite up-to-date: http://www.vox.com/2014/6/10/5797306/map-school-shooting-sandy-hook

And here's an article, which offers comment: http://mic.com/articles/76637/44-sc...ndy-hook-america-is-failing-miserably-on-guns

In the single year after the Sandy Hook incident, Slate magazine's reporters estimated that there were over 12, 042 gun-related deaths in the U.S.A. More current figures, for this year, are available at the Gun Violence Archive Project: http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/welcome

*Since 1968, more Americans have died because of gun violence, than all servicemen who died in ALL of AMERICA's WARS throughout history - beginning with the Revolutionary War. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...mmentator-mark-shields-says-more-killed-guns/

And statisticians now project that, by NEXT YEAR, the number of people killed by GUNS, in America, will exceed the number of people killed in traffic accidents. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...ths-to-exceed-traffic-fatalities-by-2015.html

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As a naïve Canadian, I don't think there is anything complicated about this situation, AT ALL.

*Despite wildly psychedelic mis-readings by Mr. Justice Antonin Scalia and others, I have no doubt that the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment was never intended to let little girls play with Uzis ;-)

*All modern societies insist that, if you are about to get behind the wheel of an automobile - which is a great convenience, but can wreak death and destruction upon others, if not properly and carefully operated - one must have both certified training, and a LICENCE, subject to periodic testing and revocation, if one has demonstrated incompetence in the use of such a vehicle. So it ought to be, with firearms.

*Everyone who wishes to purchase or own or use a firearm ought to be subjected to thorough background checks, such as obtain in Canada and most other industrialized countries.

*Handgun restriction should be severely restricted, to only those collectors and target-shooters who are properly certified. The ownership of military-grade automatic and semi-automatic rifles ought to be prohibited, to the civilian population. (If you live in the suburbs - what do you NEED a Bushmaster for, anyway????????)

*Though it is unlikely ever to happen in my lifetime, I think the U.S. could benefit greatly from the example of the Aussies, who after a number of tragic firearms-related incidents, imposed more restrictive gun laws, and a buyback program to enable owners of prohibited firearms to turn in their weapons without penalty. This has worked well in Australia - a culture which is well-noted as a fiercely independent one - and greatly reduced the number of accidents and suicides involving citizens of that country.

Because, of all the tragedies involving guns in the U.S.A, perhaps the greatest ones are that parents who purchase a handgun to keep on their bedside table, as protection for their family, wake up to discover that one of their children has had a terrible accident. . . or that a family member who suffers from an undiagnosed depression finds it simply too easy, one dark and melancholy night, to open that bottom drawer, and put a bullet in his head.

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It's true. as the NRA says, "Guns don't kill people: people, do." Yes, that IS true. The same could be said, about automobiles.

But, by making it possible for people to purchase lethal weapons cheaply, and without responsibility; by making it possible for them to conceal them and carry them everywhere (including into schoolhouses, churches, and - worst of all, bars); and by making it possible for untrained and unskilled civilians to purchase and use military-grade weapons, whose only design and PURPOSE is the swift and efficient killing of OTHER HUMAN BEINGS. . . the various local, State, and federal governments of the
 
. . . United States, help to foster and perpetuate the tragedies we have witnessed, of late.

It is not at all complex. It is simple. But addressing this matter will require more courage and guts and RESOLUTION, than anyone on the U.S. political stage seems to HAVE, at the moment.

"A" XOXOXOXOXOXOXO

P.S. Sorry for the split post. The Edit function isn't working, today - at least as regards the main body of the letter, above. It's extremely embarrassing, but I simply couldn't fix it. (And still can't - when I call up the edit, I simply get a blank page.) Thus I must apologize also, for all the typographical errors. The site wouldn't allow me to fix them.
 
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gun violence kills 40 people a day. that's 14,000 every year.
common sense solutions do not work in a political situation.
the court has signaled that it will not support gun control. gun lobbyists and the industry is banking on that.
letting little children shoot assault weapon makes no sense. however, you would want an instructor to be in a position to seize control, at the first sign of instability. failing to do that cost his life. it's not an age or size issue, it's about improving procedures. whether everybody should own one is a different story. common sense is not as common as one might think.
 
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