Tell me..

[Phillionaire]

In today's day, a common stereotype that you here is "Gay". "Your gay", "He's gay", or "That's gay".

I want to know, What makes "gay" - Gay!?

Now there is so many different types of people out there, that bundling them all into one stereotype is crazy!

You got Guys who will do stuff with other guys but appear "straight" in public.
You got Guys who will do stuff with only guys but appear "straight" in public.
You got Guys who will do stuff only with guys and be open about it.
You got Guys who will do stuff with guys but not recieve.
You got guys who will recieve a blowjob but not give one.
You got guys who act like girls and do stuff with other guys.
You got guys who act like girls and do stuff with other girls.

To me, This list can go on and on and on and on!


I don't believe sucking a dick or doing something sexually with a male makes me gay.
I believe if a Male likes a Male, whether, Masc/Fem bi or straight, you are gay.


I wish we could erase words in the human language!


Tell me what you guys think on this, I have an extremely open mind and I really want to get a better understanding on the whole thing, so maybe i would stop getting so frustrated with the topic in everyday life. (Movie references, People, and Small talk).

 

[Jayman01]

Webster's Dictionary defines Gay as:

a : happily excited : merry <in a gay mood> b : keenly alive and exuberant : having or inducing high spirits <a bird's gay spring song>
2a : bright, lively <gay sunny meadows> b : brilliant in color
3: given to social pleasures; also : licentious
4a : homosexual <gay men> b : of, relating to, or used by homosexuals <the gay rights movement> <a gay bar>
— gay adverb
— gay·ness noun
See gay defined for English-language learners »
Examples of GAY
The band was playing a gay tune.
the gayest of the spring flowers
Origin of GAY:
Middle English, from Anglo-French gai, of Germanic origin; akin to Old High German gāhi quick, sudden
First Known Use: 14th century
Related to GAY
Synonyms:
active, airy, animate, animated, bouncing, brisk, energetic, frisky, lively, jaunty, jazzy, kinetic, mettlesome, peppy, perky, pert, pizzazzy (or pizazzy), racy, snappy, spanking, sparky, spirited, sprightly, springy, vital, vivacious, zippy
Antonyms:
dead, inactive, inanimate, lackadaisical, languid, languishing, languorous, leaden, lifeless, limp, listless, spiritless, vapid
Related Words: dapper, dashing, spiffy; agog, alert, awake, open-eyed, up, wide-awake; agile, nimble, spry; bright, buoyant, cheerful, chipper, chirpy, chirrupy, effervescent, sparkly, upbeat; eager, enthusiastic, keen; frolicsome, impish, pixieish, playful; boisterous, bubbly, ebullient, exuberant, high-spirited; high-strung, nervous, skittish
Near Antonyms: indolent, lazy, unambitious; inert, lethargic, sleepy, sluggish, tired, torpid, weary; apathetic, impassive, phlegmatic, stolid; boring, dull, irksome, tedious
see all synonyms and antonyms
[+]more[-]hide

Her is the Urban dictionary link. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gayToo much to post. LOL


My opinion:

Gay - typically used to mean happy or jolly. These days people just seem to use the word to describe things as odd or peculiar. I believe the ideas was derived from the concept that guys liking other guys seems odd or peculiar. I don't know. But like you said, people say this is gay and that is gay all the time.

I have said on many threads in order for a word like gay to hold any power that person must take ownership of the word. I believe that society in general will always use the word to describe same sex acts or those who participate in them. I am not one who likes labels of any kind because labels do not fit everyone. However, in society we have a need to communicate. And to shorten descriptions of behavior that we have observed or partaken in we create labels that shorten those descriptions so that we can have shorter conversations. As language evolves so do the words/labels and most of us loose sight of the true essence of those labels or we create new ones. None the less I stand by my belief that we are all spiritual beings experiencing a human condition. Being sexual is part of that condition. I don't really believe it matters who you are having sex with as long as it is conceptual and you both enjoy your self. Who cares what label society places on the act of sex. Who ever said that friends could not share their appreciation of each other by engaging in sex. What goes on between any two people really is their business until they are caught in the act or boast about it to others.

I have one friend that says that if you are a guy and you suck one cock you are Gay. Yet I have two other straight friends that can suck their own dicks and admit to it. They so far have never done anything with another guy that I know of but by one person's opinion they are both Gay whether or not it is their own cock they are sucking. We can never change what other think or believe. We can only change ourselves. So, in the grand scheme of life relax enjoy and let the petty minded folks worry about labels. Always keep them guessing. LOL

Thanks for letting me share.

 

[cumrag27]

Great wisdom...SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT!

Webster's Dictionary defines Gay as:

a : happily excited : merry <in a gay mood> b : keenly alive and exuberant : having or inducing high spirits <a bird's gay spring song>
2a : bright, lively <gay sunny meadows> b : brilliant in color
3: given to social pleasures; also : licentious
4a : homosexual <gay men> b : of, relating to, or used by homosexuals <the gay rights movement> <a gay bar>
— gay adverb
— gay·ness noun
See gay defined for English-language learners »
Examples of GAY
The band was playing a gay tune.
the gayest of the spring flowers
Origin of GAY:
Middle English, from Anglo-French gai, of Germanic origin; akin to Old High German gāhi quick, sudden
First Known Use: 14th century
Related to GAY
Synonyms:
active, airy, animate, animated, bouncing, brisk, energetic, frisky, lively, jaunty, jazzy, kinetic, mettlesome, peppy, perky, pert, pizzazzy (or pizazzy), racy, snappy, spanking, sparky, spirited, sprightly, springy, vital, vivacious, zippy
Antonyms:
dead, inactive, inanimate, lackadaisical, languid, languishing, languorous, leaden, lifeless, limp, listless, spiritless, vapid
Related Words: dapper, dashing, spiffy; agog, alert, awake, open-eyed, up, wide-awake; agile, nimble, spry; bright, buoyant, cheerful, chipper, chirpy, chirrupy, effervescent, sparkly, upbeat; eager, enthusiastic, keen; frolicsome, impish, pixieish, playful; boisterous, bubbly, ebullient, exuberant, high-spirited; high-strung, nervous, skittish
Near Antonyms: indolent, lazy, unambitious; inert, lethargic, sleepy, sluggish, tired, torpid, weary; apathetic, impassive, phlegmatic, stolid; boring, dull, irksome, tedious
see all synonyms and antonyms
[+]more[-]hide

Her is the Urban dictionary link. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gayToo much to post. LOL


My opinion:

Gay - typically used to mean happy or jolly. These days people just seem to use the word to describe things as odd or peculiar. I believe the ideas was derived from the concept that guys liking other guys seems odd or peculiar. I don't know. But like you said, people say this is gay and that is gay all the time.

I have said on many threads in order for a word like gay to hold any power that person must take ownership of the word. I believe that society in general will always use the word to describe same sex acts or those who participate in them. I am not one who likes labels of any kind because labels do not fit everyone. However, in society we have a need to communicate. And to shorten descriptions of behavior that we have observed or partaken in we create labels that shorten those descriptions so that we can have shorter conversations. As language evolves so do the words/labels and most of us loose sight of the true essence of those labels or we create new ones. None the less I stand by my belief that we are all spiritual beings experiencing a human condition. Being sexual is part of that condition. I don't really believe it matters who you are having sex with as long as it is conceptual and you both enjoy your self. Who cares what label society places on the act of sex. Who ever said that friends could not share their appreciation of each other by engaging in sex. What goes on between any two people really is their business until they are caught in the act or boast about it to others.

I have one friend that says that if you are a guy and you suck one cock you are Gay. Yet I have two other straight friends that can suck their own dicks and admit to it. They so far have never done anything with another guy that I know of but by one person's opinion they are both Gay whether or not it is their own cock they are sucking. We can never change what other think or believe. We can only change ourselves. So, in the grand scheme of life relax enjoy and let the petty minded folks worry about labels. Always keep them guessing. LOL

Thanks for letting me share.

Dear Phill,

Rather than subscribing to a specific label, think about what Jayman1 is saying here and you might more accurately not fit so neatly into a specific label. I feel it is how you chose to relate EITHER in a very arbitrary "black or white with no gray in the middle" point of view OR you think "all life is about compromise and you fit in somewhere in a floating middle section" and this point of view fits you better.

Personally, I recommend for your consideration, you might fall into the 2nd more generalized category as it offers you so much more personal flexibility. Furthermore, I appreciate Jayman taking the time to be so thorough in his explanation

Sincerely,

 

[slimvintage]

Awesome Phillip and Jay.

I would say there are three main meanings, one of which is pretty much obsolete and actually causes confusion when used today. That's the one from the recent past, the 18th and 19th century definition of animated, spirited, vivacious. In Victorian and Edwardian England if you came back from a big picnic with lots of attractive and amusing friends who had all had a great time, and reported to someone who hadn't been there that, "...it was spiffing, we were all very gay," that person wouldn't automatically have pictured futon scenes on the grass, nor would he have assumed that everyone there was a flaming nelly with lots of wrist action and a ringing giggle. He was being told by the picnic goer that everyone there had a great time, and such was the way he understood the description.

At some point the term, maybe as a code euphemism, took on the meaning of "homosexual". That's how it's been for decades now, 60 years or so in common usage.

In the last few years though, people who are now 20ish and under started using the term to cover more than just queers and their behavior. It's been extended to define anything corny, uncool, dorky, boring, stupid, over the top, or difficult and unfun. We have a 14 y.o. in the family who complained to his mother recently, "Oh mom please, you're so gay sometimes." This new usage is diametrically opposed to the one from 150 years ago and linguistically fascinating. It's as if the term meaning "queer" has never existed, and a new generation had decided that something that used to mean lively and amusing now meant boring and jerky.

Of course we would never have got to the new meaning without the word's evolving through "homosexual" to get there. "Gay" in that sense still defines bad enough stuff to so many people that it's present incarnation isn't a surprising leap.

Phillionaire you're a perfect case study in the new generation's approach to defining sexuality. There've been several discussions over the last couple of years on the forum about how laidback and refreshing the new attitude to variety in sexual encounters is, exemplified by what we see in and hear from guys on the futon.

In your case I think you're into physical beauty. You personally went through a huge body metamorphosis, and miraculously turned from a fatty into a hottie. You are (therefore?) fascinated by your suckbuddy's abs for example. In a way you're a connoisseur of the male physique. You're very into girls, and you like to suck dick. You're the real deal, the perfect example of the boy this website sells to its subscribers, someone who's straight but gay but straight, all in one really interesting package. People used to have to go through your ruminations about sexual identity pretty much on their own. It's great to have someone on this forum who can put into words the contradictions he's facing in his own life, phrase them so well and share them with the rest of us.

 

[joninliverton]

In today's day, a common stereotype that you here is "Gay". "Your gay", "He's gay", or "That's gay".

I want to know, What makes "gay" - Gay!?

Now there is so many different types of people out there, that bundling them all into one stereotype is crazy!

You got Guys who will do stuff with other guys but appear "straight" in public.
You got Guys who will do stuff with only guys but appear "straight" in public.
You got Guys who will do stuff only with guys and be open about it.
You got Guys who will do stuff with guys but not recieve.
You got guys who will recieve a blowjob but not give one.
You got guys who act like girls and do stuff with other guys.
You got guys who act like girls and do stuff with other girls.

To me, This list can go on and on and on and on!


I don't believe sucking a dick or doing something sexually with a male makes me gay.
I believe if a Male likes a Male, whether, Masc/Fem bi or straight, you are gay.


I wish we could erase words in the human language!


Tell me what you guys think on this, I have an extremely open mind and I really want to get a better understanding on the whole thing, so maybe i would stop getting so frustrated with the topic in everyday life. (Movie references, People, and Small talk).

Hi Phill,

Unlike yourself I realised that my sexuality was gay as far back as I can remember. However, I use the gay word as an alternative to homosexual. When I came out to my family, my grandparents started using the word homosexual when referring to leaflets I could aquire to cure the "illness" lol. It took me ages to talk them around that there was nothing wrong with me medical wise.

I would however, question your statement "I don't believe sucking a dick or doing something sexually with a male makes me gay. " It may not make you 100pc gay but those acts are classed as homosexual acts. From what you've divulged so far I would class you as bisexual/curious, which kinda puts you in the same category as a lot of Broke Straight Boys models.

Finally, labels are for clothes and not for people. You are what you are, I am what I am and I'm sure if we were to ever meet that you would give me the best fuck I've ever had.

 

[Jayman01]

Awesome Phillip and Jay.

I would say there are three main meanings, one of which is pretty much obsolete and actually causes confusion when used today. That's the one from the recent past, the 18th and 19th century definition of animated, spirited, vivacious. In Victorian and Edwardian England if you came back from a big picnic with lots of attractive and amusing friends who had all had a great time, and reported to someone who hadn't been there that, "...it was spiffing, we were all very gay," that person wouldn't automatically have pictured futon scenes on the grass, nor would he have assumed that everyone there was a flaming nelly with lots of wrist action and a ringing giggle. He was being told by the picnic goer that everyone there had a great time, and such was the way he understood the description.

At some point the term, maybe as a code euphemism, took on the meaning of "homosexual". That's how it's been for decades now, 60 years or so in common usage.

In the last few years though, people who are now 20ish and under started using the term to cover more than just queers and their behavior. It's been extended to define anything corny, uncool, dorky, boring, stupid, over the top, or difficult and unfun. We have a 14 y.o. in the family who complained to his mother recently, "Oh mom please, you're so gay sometimes." This new usage is diametrically opposed to the one from 150 years ago and linguistically fascinating. It's as if the term meaning "queer" has never existed, and a new generation had decided that something that used to mean lively and amusing now meant boring and jerky.

Of course we would never have got to the new meaning without the word's evolving through "homosexual" to get there. "Gay" in that sense still defines bad enough stuff to so many people that it's present incarnation isn't a surprising leap.

Phillionaire you're a perfect case study in the new generation's approach to defining sexuality. There've been several discussions over the last couple of years on the forum about how laidback and refreshing the new attitude to variety in sexual encounters is, exemplified by what we see in and hear from guys on the futon.

In your case I think you're into physical beauty. You personally went through a huge body metamorphosis, and miraculously turned from a fatty into a hottie. You are (therefore?) fascinated by your suckbuddy's abs for example. In a way you're a connoisseur of the male physique. You're very into girls, and you like to suck dick. You're the real deal, the perfect example of the boy this website sells to its subscribers, someone who's straight but gay but straight, all in one really interesting package. People used to have to go through your ruminations about sexual identity pretty much on their own. It's great to have someone on this forum who can put into words the contradictions he's facing in his own life, phrase them so well and share them with the rest of us.

Slim, this is an excellent synopsis of the word Gay and it's transition to its present day usage.

 

[mikeyank]

I am what I am and I'm sure if we were to ever meet that you would give me the best fuck I've ever had.

I understand that David put the kibosh on any forumites working their way to the futon, but with Mark now in charge of shooting the scenes, how about some "New Rules" for 2011?

 

[cumrag27]

Lets make a New Year resolution for New Rules for 2011!

I understand that David put the kibosh on any forumites working their way to the futon, but with Mark now in charge of shooting the scenes, how about some "New Rules" for 2011?

Dear Mikeyank and Mark,

With the addition of the New Broke Straight Boys, I think it would be in keeping with the new year to go with the flow and allow "New Rules" for suitably hot forumites providing the chance they in fact deserve working their way onto the new Broke Straight Boys futon.

I can't imagine why a perfectly good opportunity rising from the ranks of the forum would being overlooked, on just a technicality! That would repesent real progress for Broke Straight Boys, I think!

 

[Phillionaire]

People care about what other people think. That's just natural and being Human.

So a lot of people pick and choose what they do, according to how other people would react to it when they "found out".

But what I don't understand is why some people say things beforehand, as a Precautionary measure so people DON'T think certain things about them!

When you factor in, what people are going to think, and what you don't want people to think, your worry about way to much that doesn't have anything to do with what you will and are going to do, and then usually sends it down a different path then what it would have took if you would just would have put the Sail up and let the boat steer itself.

At least half the straight guys that I have had an encounter with, use the word "gay" and "fag" freely. So it's like they have to say things like that, so people would never have the assumption that they are..well "gay".

If they don't want to be called "gay" then either don't give people a reason too, by letting them find out, or don't walk around as a hypocrite, talking down on the "stereotype" that they would fit in, and at the same time, still have encounters with other guys.

Like I have said before, I have been amazed several times by the limits that some of these guys will push, more than I would push and I'm pretty open, yet they are the ones who go along with gay rumors, gay jokes, and poke fun at other people.

Why can't they just do what they do, and choose to talk about something else in their downtime, or choose to realize what words make them look a lot dumber then what they truly can be?


P.S - Don't answer with, "People are people, you can't change them" because thats not the reply i'm looking for here, and that already goes unsaid! People can change, And if you can't change them, They can change themselves.

What gets people to Buy-In to the philosophy of being free and open minded, and leave the judging for the court room?

 

[joninliverton]

People care about what other people think. That's just natural and being Human.

So a lot of people pick and choose what they do, according to how other people would react to it when they "found out".

But what I don't understand is why some people say things beforehand, as a Precautionary measure so people DON'T think certain things about them!

When you factor in, what people are going to think, and what you don't want people to think, your worry about way to much that doesn't have anything to do with what you will and are going to do, and then usually sends it down a different path then what it would have took if you would just would have put the Sail up and let the boat steer itself.

At least half the straight guys that I have had an encounter with, use the word "gay" and "fag" freely. So it's like they have to say things like that, so people would never have the assumption that they are..well "gay".

If they don't want to be called "gay" then either don't give people a reason too, by letting them find out, or don't walk around as a hypocrite, talking down on the "stereotype" that they would fit in, and at the same time, still have encounters with other guys.

Like I have said before, I have been amazed several times by the limits that some of these guys will push, more than I would push and I'm pretty open, yet they are the ones who go along with gay rumors, gay jokes, and poke fun at other people.

Why can't they just do what they do, and choose to talk about something else in their downtime, or choose to realize what words make them look a lot dumber then what they truly can be?


P.S - Don't answer with, "People are people, you can't change them" because thats not the reply i'm looking for here, and that already goes unsaid! People can change, And if you can't change them, They can change themselves.

What gets people to Buy-In to the philosophy of being free and open minded, and leave the judging for the court room?

Phil because these people have the personality of a newt. They are total wankers who like to call guys or people who they think have a weak point. In essence they are bullies and I wouldn't even entertain talking to them if that is how the treat people. But your friends are no different than some of the guys around here in the UK. They act hard and call gays faggots and queers and fudge packers but they don't do it to their faces - it's against the law in this country.

 

[cumrag27]

Change begins with...

People care about what other people think. That's just natural and being Human.

So a lot of people pick and choose what they do, according to how other people would react to it when they "found out".

But what I don't understand is why some people say things beforehand, as a Precautionary measure so people DON'T think certain things about them!

When you factor in, what people are going to think, and what you don't want people to think, your worry about way to much that doesn't have anything to do with what you will and are going to do, and then usually sends it down a different path then what it would have took if you would just would have put the Sail up and let the boat steer itself.

At least half the straight guys that I have had an encounter with, use the word "gay" and "fag" freely. So it's like they have to say things like that, so people would never have the assumption that they are..well "gay".

If they don't want to be called "gay" then either don't give people a reason too, by letting them find out, or don't walk around as a hypocrite, talking down on the "stereotype" that they would fit in, and at the same time, still have encounters with other guys.

Like I have said before, I have been amazed several times by the limits that some of these guys will push, more than I would push and I'm pretty open, yet they are the ones who go along with gay rumors, gay jokes, and poke fun at other people.

Why can't they just do what they do, and choose to talk about something else in their downtime, or choose to realize what words make them look a lot dumber then what they truly can be?


P.S - Don't answer with, "People are people, you can't change them" because thats not the reply i'm looking for here, and that already goes unsaid! People can change, And if you can't change them, They can change themselves.

What gets people to Buy-In to the philosophy of being free and open minded, and leave the judging for the court room?

Dear Phill,

You have probably have noticed that some of the biggest and most vocal homophobes are those that secretly are struggling with their sexual identity themselves. However, to avoid suspicion, they feel compelled to put others down that they feel won't do them personally any bodily harm. In other words, they are bullies taking advantage of those that appear less strong or more vulnerable than them self. The mere act of putting someone else down is a diversionary tactic intended to shift any unfavorable light away from the "bullie" and onto someone else. These homophobes are essentially shaking in their own boots due to personal questions or personal inconsistencies they have hidden from public view.

Frequently spouting "Fag" or "nellie" or "gay" at anyone that crosses their path is their approach for covering up their self-doubts. These simplistic words are easily added words to those in Middle School with their limited vocabulary. This starts in Middle School when everyone is dealing with inner conflicts that hadn't ever dealt with before. Unfortunately, this preying on the weak becomes a habit and a good way to "Get someone" at random whenever they are pissed off and they first get the power these words can potentially convey. This power then goes to their undeveloped real head and they throw it around as if 99.9% of the population were indeed gay.

I am quite certain no middle school kid ever gets past this stage in their life without being falsely accused of something the accuser has no evidence to support their falsehoods. But, they soon learn this also serves a dual purpose of getting the spotlight off of them by the act of accusing others. It is totally a cruel game they play and continue to play into their young adult years until they grow up sufficiently and have resolved all inner conflicts or have lied to them self enough that they think their issues have been resolved. The four gay suicides of young adults that happened this fall give witness to the inestimable cruelty they create. Sometimes, it takes these desperate and fatal events before cruel people get it that they might cause someone else's death or suicide. Some never get over the power they feel using this tactic and they become the hardcore homophobes, whether their personal behavior or fantasies are in direct contradiction or not.

While we proudly proclaim we are a "Christian Nation" and youth universally declare they hate hypocrisy, there is still this taste for blood when once introduced to this "blood sport" of "gay bashing" or "gay hate crimes". It would be nice if people would simply do what Christ demanded of them to not be siting in judgment of others. Yet over and over again whether it was the "Salem Witch hunts", the "Red Scare" following WW2 exposing suspected communists, or our own military policy against gays that are too frequently turned around to hurt gay people for merely living according to their gay sexual preferences. It is really about who has the power and what will they do to trample on any minority that gets in their way.

"Pure democracy" is really nothing more than the law of the jungle, dog-eat-dog, where the one with the most power gets to make all the rules. Tyrany in other words. Our founding fathers never wanted this extreme form of government and they sought to balance the inherent power of "majority rule" with "minority rights".

Concerning changing others, people by their very nature resist change. Just like racial segregation, the majority fought it for 150+ years down to the wire. Finally, the Supreme Court, back in the days when they sought to be ethical and rule on behalf of the American people, and not just big business, the US constitution was upheld by our Supreme Court over 150 years after our founding as a nation. That should be an indication of how resistant people are to change. Even today after the Nazi Party of Adolph Hilter was defeated, there are Americans that want to view Hitler as a God! There are still white supremist in the US today. Just other examples of how people resist change.

I think young people are always more willing to make some changes in societies basic social fabric, until they start raising their own family. Obviously this is a gross generalization but still holds true for most people. I think you hit on the best idea to follow and that is all change begins with one person. Since you only have responsibility for yourself, it may be far slower than is ideal but at least it is a start Change begins with you!

Sincerely,

 

[slimvintage]

People care about what other people think. That's just natural and being Human.

So a lot of people pick and choose what they do, according to how other people would react to it when they "found out".

But what I don't understand is why some people say things beforehand, as a Precautionary measure so people DON'T think certain things about them!

...............................................

What gets people to Buy-In to the philosophy of being free and open minded, and leave the judging for the court room?

You've got two parallel dynamics at work in the hearts and minds of people who are fearful and ashamed of their instincts.

They have all kinds of good and bad reasons for wanting to appear totally straight, even to the point of hurting the guys they have sex with. You know all those reasons, we all do: family, job, homophobic circle of friends, fear of the future, shame, insecurity, ignorance. I remember when I told a girlfriend I really liked a lot and with whom the sex was awesome for both of us (I was what used to be called "cock-tied" to her) that I had decided to give in to some different urges and spend the weekend with a cute guy I'd become friends with. She was hurt and maybe insulted but, surprising to me, not surprised that I might want to do that. It had been anguishing finding the guts to tell her, but it felt great to get it out into the open.

Up to then I'd been pretty much the hypocrite you describe.

But it's a whole different ballgame now, and you are one of the new breed of players. The problem is that you're having to be part of a sexual vanguard in a backwater of prejudice. I remember going through puberty and adolescence in rural Northwestern Missouri. Those guys used to sleep over and jack each others' dicks, but jeer at the class queer the next day. Your evolved attitude to openness will someday be one of many accepted approaches to sexuality, but it sounds like MO still has a long way to go to get there.

 

[joninliverton]

You've got two parallel dynamics at work in the hearts and minds of people who are fearful and ashamed of their instincts.

They have all kinds of good and bad reasons for wanting to appear totally straight, even to the point of hurting the guys they have sex with. You know all those reasons, we all do: family, job, homophobic circle of friends, fear of the future, shame, insecurity, ignorance. I remember when I told a girlfriend I really liked a lot and with whom the sex was awesome for both of us (I was what used to be called "cock-tied" to her) that I had decided to give in to some different urges and spend the weekend with a cute guy I'd become friends with. She was hurt and maybe insulted but, surprising to me, not surprised that I might want to do that. It had been anguishing finding the guts to tell her, but it felt great to get it out into the open.

Up to then I'd been pretty much the hypocrite you describe.

But it's a whole different ballgame now, and you are one of the new breed of players. The problem is that you're having to be part of a sexual vanguard in a backwater of prejudice. I remember going through puberty and adolescence in rural Northwestern Missouri. Those guys used to sleep over and jack each others' dicks, but jeer at the class queer the next day. Your evolved attitude to openness will someday be one of many accepted approaches to sexuality, but it sounds like MO still has a long way to go to get there.

FFS Slim, he aint all that younger than myself and I and my friends can handle it. But this isn't a case of whether Phil can handle it at all. It's a case of him understanding his peers interpretation of the word GAY and whether or not they are willing to accept it or not within their normal chat or hide behind the bible.

 

[slimvintage]

FFS Slim, he aint all that younger than myself and I and my friends can handle it. But this isn't a case of whether Phil can handle it at all. It's a case of him understanding his peers interpretation of the word GAY and whether or not they are willing to accept it or not within their normal chat or hide behind the bible.

Oh, sorry, I thought he was discussing hypocrisy. I see the point.

 

[jeff07]

We seem to have to have two threads working here.
One is Phil who raises questions about how to deal with bigotry, prejudice, and hypocrisy in today’s world. I surely don’t have all the answers, but on another thread it asked for our favorite quote. Perhaps the words of Lincoln as posted there are also à propos to this thread. I think it is each of our responsibilities to intervene for the Phil’s, Stimpy’s and Slimvantage’s who have ever experienced the pain of discrimination. This generation is far more open to and has the ability to move along the continuum of the “sliding scale” of human sexuality than the past generation. I was fortunate to ride the cusp of that change, neither as open as this generation but not as closeted as the past. Nonetheless, when the barbs of faggot, homo or queer at thrown at a person the loneliness and isolation is profound: unless we stand up, confront and defend the subject of the ridicule and heed Lincoln’s words, “to sin by silence, when we should protest, makes cowards of us all.”

The other thread is a much lighter one. Mike and Mark are talking about using forumites to populate the new Broke Straight Boys websites. Given the private communications I’ve had with some members, there are several suggested new names for the site, but Broke Straight Boys is not one of them! (LOL)
More like FatMiddlegedMenWhoGetOffOnYoungBrokeStraightBoys might be more approximate .

All the best,
Jeff

 

[Phillionaire]

The other thread is a much lighter one. Mike and Mark are talking about using forumites to populate the new Broke Straight Boys websites. Given the private communications I’ve had with some members, there are several suggested new names for the site, but Broke Straight Boys is not one of them! (LOL)
More like FatMiddlegedMenWhoGetOffOnYoungBrokeStraightBoys might be more approximate .

All the best,
Jeff

Jeff.. You seem to lose me somewhere along the lines in every single one of your posts. I just don't get what your saying sometimes, or the means behind it.


Jon,

You have to understand as well, the UK and USA are not the same cultural at all! I don't have the wisdon to know if this is true, and I might be under the wrong impression, But I feel that Americans are a lot more judgemental and stereotypical then chaps in the UK! I wish I could experience what its like growing up in the UK, But America's "Democratic World Power" teachings seem to just empower ignorant people to use words they don't fully understand, and that is frustrating to say the least!


Slim and CR,

Thanks for the responses, it really expands my mind a little more then what it already is, and I appreciate that!

 

[str8grrrrl]

There's this book called Men's Work by Paul Kivel that explores this very question--why guys are so concerned with being perceived as gay i.e. effeminate, that they feel the need to declare their straightness as, in your words, a precautionary measure. This need for pre-emptively defining themselves as straight, or more importantly as masculine, is to avoid physical, verbal and economic subjugation.

Here's a quote from the book:

“There is danger from other men. Women know this in the core of their being. So do men, even if we deny it. There is different danger for each of us, depending on our place in society and the amount of power we have to protect that place. There is physical danger from men we meet on the street and danger from men we work for and with. There is danger from men who hold administrative power over us, from white men if we are men of color, from men who have more money than we do, from any man who has the power to affect our lives if we don't 'act right.' “

 

[cumrag27]

King of the Mountain, Top Dog, Alpha Male, etc.

There's this book called Men's Work by Paul Kivel that explores this very question--why guys are so concerned with being perceived as gay i.e. effeminate, that they feel the need to declare their straightness as, in your words, a precautionary measure. This need for pre-emptively defining themselves as straight, or more importantly as masculine, is to avoid physical, verbal and economic subjugation.

Here's a quote from the book:

“There is danger from other men. Women know this in the core of their being. So do men, even if we deny it. There is different danger for each of us, depending on our place in society and the amount of power we have to protect that place. There is physical danger from men we meet on the street and danger from men we work for and with. There is danger from men who hold administrative power over us, from white men if we are men of color, from men who have more money than we do, from any man who has the power to affect our lives if we don't 'act right.' “

Dear str8grrrrl,

To begin with I must admit to having only read the snippet you provided as a quote. However, on its surface, it appears that the author is talking about anyone that that can only accept "Dominance and Power over others" and nothing less. I have had the misfortune to run across and try to work with many parents male or female that are ruled by this overriding obsession as their sense of entitlement. Whatever they desire, everyone else must be served after they have first helpings and they really don't care about whose toes they step on as they are blinded by their own unbridled ambition. These are truly "sick people" who believe as a guiding principle that "competition is the natural order of things in a capitalistic society" and they are card carrying members of the "Dog eat Dog" paradigm. Regardless of gender, they will lie, cheat, steal, bribe, coerce, or do anything that is necessary to achieve dominance over others.

Cheerleader mothers, football dads, Honor Roll parents, Parents of Scholarships, and on and on it goes. I actually had a parent that was both the Mayor and President of our School Board, that blamed me for his child being reduced to "Salutatorian" when the School Board President's own sister-in-law and high school teacher had to correct a final grade for his own daughter lowering the girl's average from an A to a B due to a mathematical error which resulted in her Class Standing going from Valedictorian to Salutatorian at graduation. He expected us to change the girl's grade back to an "A" she no longer deserved. He was so mad it had to ruin his own daughter's graduation now that she was viewed as a complete failure for being 2nd in her class according to his viewpoint. It is amazing what people holding power over you will expect you to do but he was unsuccessful.

These overly competitive types make everyone they come into contact uncomfortable with being so overly aggressive and that their child must be "number 1" regardless in everything they do. Settling for "number 2" is an admission of utter and complete failure. Think about their own children and how it makes them, over time, unable to live up to these unreasonable expectations. I have worked with many parents, male or female, that embody this obsessive drive and they make everyone miserable if they don't get exactly their own way. Just a few years ago, a cheerleader's mother in Texas was complicit in the death of a school employee because of some cheerleading competition outcome the mother couldn't accept. Cheerleader parents can be some of the worst people to deal with because of their drive for dominance and coming in #1 and nothing less. Theater people used to refer to these as "Stage Moms" but I am sure there probably were a few "Stage Dads" too.

Regardless of the fact that this book was written by a man or at least used a masculine author name, I have great difficulty that there can only be one gender blamed for anything unless there is a definable biological certainty attached to the allogations. Being an "alpha male" can cross gender lines without too much difficulty. In my experience with these dangerous, win at any cost, parents have been pretty much evenly distributed along gender lines.

Respectfully,

Cumrag27, aka Stimpy

 

[str8grrrrl]

You are so right, Cumrag27. Any gender can be an "alpha male" and there is no absolute biological certainty to the "male" aspect of alpha. There are some interesting theories posited about the lack of violence in matriarchical hierarchies such as bonabo primates versus the inherent violence in patriarchical social structures of primates such as chimps. But these remain theories. So biological imperative may or may not be the reason for how our current human world is structured.

But the fact remains that, currently, straight men from a specific ethnic, religious and socio-economic group run things, by and large. The ethnicity and religion of the ruling class may vary from country to country depending on whether you're in Asia or the Middle East, etc. but the one thing that doesn't vary is gender, sexual orientation (at least professed orientation) and socio-economic status of the ruling class. And varying from this norm generally results in subjugation and marginalization, whether by economic means or physical violence.

It's kinda like the difference between prejudice and racism. Not every white person in our country is prejudiced against or discriminates against people with darker skin. But that doesn't change the fact that our socio-economic and political system is racist, which makes it more dangerous to have darker skin when seeking health care, employment, housing, political office, or assistance from law enforcement.

Just do the math and compare the percentage of racial minorities in our population to the percentage of these same minorities in our prisons, in the Senate, below the poverty level, in the top 5% wealthiest Americans, or in college. Then it becomes glaringly obvious, because the difference in percentage in the general population with the percentage in the categories mentioned is so drastic.

 

[Jayman01]

Str8grrrrl and Cumrag,

You both make excellent points. I do believe that the position of alpha is very subjective and ego based. However; in a today's society we tend to follow those who can demonstrate their dominance through wit, finance, and power in general.

I believe we many of us tend to surrender leadership because they are the strongest or the most feared which kind of feeds into our lower ego. However, there are those who are naturally born to the mantle of leadership. They are of the born of the Church of Smyrna. Their spiritual gift is their innate ability to lead. They do not need intimidation or fear to lead others when they are in balance. Others will just follow willingly. However, even these innate leaders can fall into this trap of the lower ego and take advantage of their position and their gift for personal gain. In order to maintain control they are may need to instill fear based incentives much like the church uses the prospect of hell to motivate parishioners to stay on the straight and narrow. LOL. (Sorry, my own personal belief there)

Anyway, it is very difficult to survive as an individual entity in society. From the moment we are born we begin to establish our pecking order if you will in society. So, being GLBT is seen as being abnormal in society. Therefore, being GLBT is perceived as being weaker. Nature is full of examples of dominance. I have a pit bull for a pet. When she is around her siblings and her mother they all try to hump one another to demonstrate their dominance whether male or female. (My dog is fixed and she still humps her brothers from behind. LOL) I guess my dog is one of the leaders. Only her mother or grandmother can hump her without a good fight erupting. Strange that we as human beings have evolved as far as we have and we still have to proverbially hump each other for dominance too.