Happy July 4th America.

[BenBen]

One of the reasons it has not been forgotten is because the Brits constantly bring it up and put us down. I believe that there is some appreciation on both sides of each other as people but many Brits still seem to think they are of a better class than Americans and if you think I'm pulling that out of my hat you only have to watch typical British comedy and it will be mentioned at some point. The Brits think it's acceptable to put us down and make fun of us for being Americans.

My real point is that if you are going to wish someone well then do it, don't throw in a snarky caveat insulting them.

You are as American as I? Preposterous, since you're a loyalist and Canadian. That's as ridiculous as a Heterosexual saying they understand what being gay is all about. You're "explanation of justification" only adds insult to injury. If you truly meant to offer an apology you would have simply apologized but you are not apologetic because you are justifying your insult. You are who you are and you are not going to change. You think of your people as being loyal to the crown and our people as being traitors to the crown. I might add that you are only a traitor if you lose. Using humor to insult a whole group of people is not an excuse. Frankly I would have had more respect for your insult if you had just said it straight out instead of trying to be funny. I am going to overlook your faux pas and move on.

I do have some dear friends who are members of the Oneida Tribe and the Menominee Tribe, they find it insulting to be called American Indians and some of them do not consider themselves as Americans they proudly say they belong to The Sovereign Oneida Nation or The Sovereign Menominee Nation.

Having pride in who or what you are is a very personal belief if you are not a member of my group you may think you understand but you will never really know. It is insulting when you pretend that you do know.

 

[Ambivalent]

Don't fret about this AMBI, those of us that know and love you knew you were kidding around. Besides technically your an American also be that North American, but still an American lol

*****************************
Hey, Kisses, Peter ~

Your kind words mean a lot! I never thought I was going to be raked over the coals so severely, for writing (what I though was) a nice and appreciative post, about how much I love and adore my American friends!

"A" XOXOXOXOXOXO

 

[Ambivalent]

And Peter is more "American" than anyone else on the forum, being 50% American Indian, this country belongs to him more than anyone else, unless we have a 100% Native American lurking among us here.

********************************
Kisses, Mike!

"A" XOXOXOXOXO

 

[bobbity]

One of the reasons it has not been forgotten is because the Brits constantly bring it up and put us down. I believe that there is some appreciation on both sides of each other as people but many Brits still seem to think they are of a better class than Americans and if you think I'm pulling that out of my hat you only have to watch typical British comedy and it will be mentioned at some point. The Brits think it's acceptable to put us down and make fun of us for being Americans.

My real point is that if you are going to wish someone well then do it, don't throw in a snarky caveat insulting them.

You are as American as I? Preposterous, since you're a loyalist and Canadian. That's as ridiculous as a Heterosexual saying they understand what being gay is all about. You're "explanation of justification" only adds insult to injury. If you truly meant to offer an apology you would have simply apologized but you are not apologetic because you are justifying your insult. You are who you are and you are not going to change. You think of your people as being loyal to the crown and our people as being traitors to the crown. I might add that you are only a traitor if you lose. Using humor to insult a whole group of people is not an excuse. Frankly I would have had more respect for your insult if you had just said it straight out instead of trying to be funny. I am going to overlook your faux pas and move on.

I do have some dear friends who are members of the Oneida Tribe and the Menominee Tribe, they find it insulting to be called American Indians and some of them do not consider themselves as Americans they proudly say they belong to The Sovereign Oneida Nation or The Sovereign Menominee Nation.

Having pride in who or what you are is a very personal belief if you are not a member of my group you may think you understand but you will never really know. It is insulting when you pretend that you do know.

One American to another: I think you're being oversensitive. There's no point in being angry over a war that happened two hundred years ago. We've fought together in two world wars since, have had Britain's support in almost every other conflict since, the exception being Iraq of course, but guess what? They still sent british troops to fight OUR wars, so this anger toward the British Empire that we fought in the revolution sounds simply oversensitive and petty.

Oh, and if you think there's a strong anti-American sentiment only in Britain, you might want to open your eyes AND ears. It exists everywhere. There is no country that absolutely loves and supports America wholeheartedly and you know what, after seeing the mess we made in the middle east, I'm not surprised. No country can spark a war for unjustifiable reasons, seeking profit and oil, kill thousands upon thousands of civilians, fight a war in the most cowardly fashion, using drones instead of men, and continue to be hailed as some kind of country that supports democracy. What do the dead know of democracy? Of freedom? And let's be honest here, democracy simply isn't an option in the middle east when you have grudges that run deeper than the freaking Nile and have lasted longer than America's inception and then some. If democracy ever was an option in these areas, it certainly isn't now. What country wants to adopt the customs, ideologies, and traditions of its conquerers? None. That's how many.

 

[johnny]

Dear ambi
As long as I have been posting. You have been one of the kindest, sweetest, caring, smartest, most loveable men on this forum.
Always been so kind to me. I think Ben Ben ( who also seems like a very smart man ) should go back and read some of your posts.
You would never want to hurt anyone. You know me. I am not a great writer. I just needed to say something.
Just breaks my heart to see to see someone talk nasty to you. You are very loved. By many.....Love johnny

 

[louis33705]

One of the reasons it has not been forgotten is because the Brits constantly bring it up and put us down. I believe that there is some appreciation on both sides of each other as people but many Brits still seem to think they are of a better class than Americans and if you think I'm pulling that out of my hat you only have to watch typical British comedy and it will be mentioned at some point. The Brits think it's acceptable to put us down and make fun of us for being Americans.

My real point is that if you are going to wish someone well then do it, don't throw in a snarky caveat insulting them.

You are as American as I? Preposterous, since you're a loyalist and Canadian. That's as ridiculous as a Heterosexual saying they understand what being gay is all about. You're "explanation of justification" only adds insult to injury. If you truly meant to offer an apology you would have simply apologized but you are not apologetic because you are justifying your insult. You are who you are and you are not going to change. You think of your people as being loyal to the crown and our people as being traitors to the crown. I might add that you are only a traitor if you lose. Using humor to insult a whole group of people is not an excuse. Frankly I would have had more respect for your insult if you had just said it straight out instead of trying to be funny. I am going to overlook your faux pas and move on.

I do have some dear friends who are members of the Oneida Tribe and the Menominee Tribe, they find it insulting to be called American Indians and some of them do not consider themselves as Americans they proudly say they belong to The Sovereign Oneida Nation or The Sovereign Menominee Nation.

Having pride in who or what you are is a very personal belief if you are not a member of my group you may think you understand but you will never really know. It is insulting when you pretend that you do know.

My Grandmother was of the Chichemeca clan of the Nahuatl speaking People. While she spoke the language, my Father did not. However, he understood her every time she spoke in her Native language.

The Native People of the Americas refer to this land as Turtle Island. Turtle Island is inclusive of North, Central and South America.

Here is something to ponder over. The Americas are inhabited by people from all over the globe. Yet, there is no history of any of our Natives ever migrating out of our land.

The US Census Bureau defines an American Indian as such,

"American Indian and Alaska Native. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America) and who maintain tribal affiliation or community attachment."

I post this for the purpose of general information. Aside from my musical training, I have studied my entire life the history of my origin and People. The history of the naming of this part of the world is even just as interesting. The name "America" has been attributed to the explorer, Amerigo Vespucci. However, the word America was first printed by a German clergyman and scholar who had printed a map of the new world and labeled it "America." His name was Martin Waldseemuller. Research this yourselves if you wish. It is interesting reading.

Today I had a happy 5th of July. It is 6 minutes before midnight. I pray that I awake tomorrow and have a better 6th of July. We go on day by day. As my signature reads, "Embrace the moment for eternity is but a breath away!"

Good night, Folks.

Louis

 

[Ambivalent]

One of the reasons it has not been forgotten is because the Brits constantly bring it up and put us down. I believe that there is some appreciation on both sides of each other as people but many Brits still seem to think they are of a better class than Americans and if you think I'm pulling that out of my hat you only have to watch typical British comedy and it will be mentioned at some point. The Brits think it's acceptable to put us down and make fun of us for being Americans.

My real point is that if you are going to wish someone well then do it, don't throw in a snarky caveat insulting them.

You are as American as I? Preposterous, since you're a loyalist and Canadian. That's as ridiculous as a Heterosexual saying they understand what being gay is all about. You're "explanation of justification" only adds insult to injury. If you truly meant to offer an apology you would have simply apologized but you are not apologetic because you are justifying your insult. You are who you are and you are not going to change. You think of your people as being loyal to the crown and our people as being traitors to the crown. I might add that you are only a traitor if you lose. Using humor to insult a whole group of people is not an excuse. Frankly I would have had more respect for your insult if you had just said it straight out instead of trying to be funny. I am going to overlook your faux pas and move on.

I do have some dear friends who are members of the Oneida Tribe and the Menominee Tribe, they find it insulting to be called American Indians and some of them do not consider themselves as Americans they proudly say they belong to The Sovereign Oneida Nation or The Sovereign Menominee Nation.

Having pride in who or what you are is a very personal belief if you are not a member of my group you may think you understand but you will never really know. It is insulting when you pretend that you do know.

*****************************************

Well, all I can say is, Ben,

I'm sorry. I didn't write, mean, or intend any sort of insult - only praise and appreciation for the United States, as an independent country, a friend, and an ally. However, you have insulted me - quite roundly, thoroughly, and gratuitously: on repeated occasions, now. If I might be so bold, your recent letters have not advanced the cause of any potential friendship, between us ;-)

If you're that terribly insulted and traumatized by British or Canadian humour, I suppose I understand. I'd only suggest there are much worse things in the world for decent U.S. citizens, to worry about, than a garden-variety U.K. sitcom, or what some second-rate Canadian writer, has to say. (Vladimir Putin? Hafez al-Assad? Ali Hosseini Khameni? Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi? Wow, you must have a lot on your mind, to be getting all worked up about Michael Palin, Michael J. Fox, or ME ;-)

When it comes to me and my family, sorry, you know precisely zero about it, and you don't seem to have your 18th-century history quite down pat, either. (Though I do want to thank you, for your fulsome tribute to Canada, on July 1st!)

While I have criticized certain U.S. Presidents and Administrations on these pages (just as I have criticized certain Canadian Prime Ministers, and governments): I have never expressed anything but the highest admiration for the United States as a nation, or for the people of the U.S., either. Because that is what I feel. For you to have seized upon an innocent moment of mirth, in a spirit of frenzied xenophobic fervor, was by far the most ingracious indulgence of choler, I've yet read on this, or any other board.

If I had known that you were going to twist and warp and distort a tribute I penned to the U.S.A. and its citizens, into precisely the opposite of what was written, and into a gratuitous ad hominem attack upon me, personally: I never would have ventured to wish my American friends a happy Fourth of July, in a public way. I would have done so personally, and privately, so that you wouldn't have been allowed the latitude, to perpetrate all this nonsense.

Mr. Ben, I'm sorry that my very existence, as a Canadian, troubles you. I hope you had fun playing with me, and insulting me, in the rudest fashion imaginable: but that's all done, now. I have enough "imps" and "trolls" dancing merry little jigs about, in my life, at the office (to whom I am paid to respond) without grooming more people who enjoy recreational cruelty, as a matter of blind sport and self-amusement. If you are a "troll", who wanted to get a rise out of me, simply out of wickedness - congratulations: you've succeeded. I'm a Celt, and I try to treat each person who writes to me with precisely the love and care he accords, to me. THIS response is an indication, of how you have fared (as Stowe would say) on my own, peculiar, scale of reckoning.

Sir, for your sake, I hope and pray that, from here on in, you will only ever need to interact with others from your own special sliver of the Anglosphere., who conform to your own particular understanding of tribalism, and history ~ parlous as it is. I shall NOT be one of them, and for this (at least) I think we can both be thankful!

Good night, goodbye, and good luck, to you, sir!

"A".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nba4yCozwYE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3F-LSdWQX8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ido55uT5U0k

 

[stowe1]

Enough​

Already!!​

This thread was innocently started by my dear friend jon to wish us Yanks a Happy 4th, since none of us did so. It has devolved into one of the most bitter threads I've read in the 3+ years I've been a forumite.

I appreciated Ambi's good wishes and chuckled at his comment which was made in complete jest. Ben, obviously you took it with offense which I can not understand but I would suggest that since no one else did so with such vehemence that you might want to ask yourself why. The two of you should just end this because neither will see the other's point of view because you both don't understand how each of you could have that point of view.

But I do want to make a few points:

1. America, England, and Canada are the most natural of allies because the U.S. and Canada sprung from the loins of Mother England and much of our legal systems and governance are based on English common law and in the case of Canada directly on the English parliamentary system.

2. Canada and America came to the aid of England and the rest of Europe during the Great War and THE War. And England and Canada have answered America's call for help in its conflicts. By the way, someone said England didn't help in Iraq. Wrong. In Iraq I (liberation of Kuwait) it answered Bush Sr.'s call; and in Iraq II if you don't think England helped ask Tony Blair who was eventually scorned by his own party for supporting Bush Jr. (Some in the English press called Blair, Bush's "lap dog"!)

3. Someone implied that the colonists' reasons for separating from the crown were not all that great. Read the Declaration of Independence. One of the major purposes that Jefferson had in writing it was to enumerate before the nations of the world the reasons why the colonies would take such drastic action as to separate from the mother country.

4. Our argument was not with the British people, but with George III who was ill-advised and some historians say mentally compromised by syphilis.

5. Someone wrote that the English feel superior to Americans as demonstrated by some of their television programs. Well we in the U.S. do a pretty good job of that as well with our jokes about British food and dental hygiene. Good friends should be able to poke fun at each other's eccentricities without getting their panties all in a twist.


So guys, take a chill pin and end this as the friends that we all are.

 

[Ambivalent]

Stowe,

Again, I apologize. I tried to post an innocent "Happy Fourth of July" post, and look at what it got me?I?!?! And your post, and observations, are excellent - in both historical, and political terms, in my view.

And, as you suggest is right and proper, I'm done with this thread. However, with due respect to you, Stowe, when someone directly, personally, attacks my ideas, integrity, and manner of expression, I will explain myself in the manner that is needful, for my own peace of mind. I have little doubt that (even though your manner of expression is more restrained, and less flamboyant, than mine) you MIGHT do the same, if someone attacked YOU, personally.

My way of ending this thread is that I have blocked BenBen permanently. I won't ever see, or comment upon, another post of his again. You might think this unpleasant, but I thought it was the only way. At any rate, you won't be troubled by interactions between me and this individual, again.

Sorry to prolong something which was, ab initio, distasteful - but, Stowe, if someone punches me in the nose, over nothing, I'm not just going to sit back and TAKE IT.

That's it.
"A".

 

[joninliverton]

I won't bother next year. Merry Christmas.

 

[stowe1]

Stowe,

Again, I apologize. I tried to post an innocent "Happy Fourth of July" post, and look at what it got me?I?!?! And your post, and observations, are excellent - in both historical, and political terms, in my view.

You have nothing to apologize to me for. As I said I took what you said as a humorous aside to your wishes for a nice 4th.

And, as you suggest is right and proper, I'm done with this thread. However, with due respect to you, Stowe, when someone directly, personally, attacks my ideas, integrity, and manner of expression, I will explain myself in the manner that is needful, for my own peace of mind. I have little doubt that (even though your manner of expression is more restrained, and less flamboyant, than mine) you MIGHT do the same, if someone attacked YOU, personally.

You bet I would. But after a while, it should have been apparent to both you and Ben that you were in circulars arguments and by continuing to post you both prolonged the discussion way beyond its useful purpose.

My way of ending this thread is that I have blocked BenBen permanently. I won't ever see, or comment upon, another post of his again. You might think this unpleasant, but I thought it was the only way. At any rate, you won't be troubled by interactions between me and this individual, again.

You do what you think is best for you. That's for no one to judge. But I was not troubled by the interchanges between the two of you; but after a while I felt a mixture of amusement and sadness.

Sorry to prolong something which was, ab initio, distasteful - but, Stowe, if someone punches me in the nose, over nothing, I'm not just going to sit back and TAKE IT.

That's it.
"A".

-

 

[BenBen]

I Mr. Ambivalent Would you also wish an Irishman a Happy St. Patrick's Day then tell him he is better off under English rule?

You have offended me several times as an American and have made several disparaging remarks about Americans. Yes, I know some of your best friends are Americans.

You sir where the one who introduced us to your family history. Yes, you are correct I know absolutely nothing about your family except that they escaped to Canada where they could continue to remain loyal to the British. My family in America does not go back so far as yours they were poor immigrant farmers coming here with the hope of a better life. Not even 10 years after my family arrived here one of my forefathers fought in a Wisconsin Regiment in the Civil war, I also had family fighting in WWI, WWII, Korea and Viet Nam. Sadly when I applied for service to my country I was not accepted because of a heart condition and it is still painful to me that I could not join the United States Navy. I now have 2 relatives, sons of my cousins who are in the Middle East. I do not need lectures of Anti-American feelings. As a Proud American I am deeply offended when a foreigner tells me my family, my countrymen would have been better off if we had remained under British rule. It is an Insult and that Insult is magnified by the fact that you waited until the anniversary of our Independence Day to voice this opinion.

You of course are free to believe whatever you want, you are also free to voice your opinion and I have no problem with that at all. I am offended when you pick this day of national pride and celebration to insult me and all Americans.

I am galled by the fact that you still think it's OK to insult me because of the Country I live in. I am disappointed that a learned man such as yourself cannot believe that you did anything offensive. You spit on my country with your words, you spit on the men in my family who fought for this country with your words and you defend your bias as humor.

I am the bad guy for calling you on the carpet for your derogatory statement. You are correct your statement was distasteful and hiding behind a simple Latin phrase makes it even more distasteful. You enjoy talking down to people and insulting them but you like to do it in a backhanded and educated way. Many times the people you insult don't even realize it which I assume gives you the most pleasure.

Don't piss on me and call it puviae.

 

[BenBen]

Stowe I agree with every point you made. I don't dislike Canadian nor do I dislike the English I have a dislike for many governmental leaders not only in some other countries but also here in America. I am realistic about the shortcomings of my country and my government. I am still proud to be an American even when we are at our worst we are strive to improve. To be honest I hardly ever read what Ambivalent writes because he's so long winded and goes on and on and on just beating that poor dead horse until there's nothing left. I think of him as a harmless eccentric but I'm sorry I was deeply offended by his statement that America would have been better off if we had remained under British rule. If he had made this as a separate thread on another day I could enjoyed a lively debate on the subject but he added it to what was supposed to be well wishes. The one comment completely negates the other and shows his true feelings. It's like wishing someone a happy birthday then saying "well, things would have been better if your mother would have had that abortion." It's bad manners and it's insulting. While he has the right to insult me and my country I also have the right to stand up for myself and tell him he was offensive.

I do have to say I was surprised and happy to see that Jon wished us a Happy 4th and that was quite nice of him. I was happy to see that Ambivalent joined in Jon's well wishes but then he insulted the whole of the United States and not for the first time in this forum.

On the 4th of July, and Memorial day I am not only thinking about celebrating I'm thinking about the men I knew who fought and died for this country, for our freedom. Is this a noble death? It can be, it can also be a senseless loss. I'm 54 years old and when I stand for the Star Spangled Banner I still get chills down my spine. Sometimes I'm not very happy with my country and not very proud of what it has done but right or wrong it is my country and I believe in supporting it and standing up for it. If someone has the balls to tell me on Independence Day that I would be better off as a British Citizen then he should have the backbone to accept my comment that I am offended by his remark. He should also be sensitive enough to realize that he was offensive and he should apologize but instead he chose to support his offensive remarks.

I am surprised that no other Americans were offended by this remark or maybe some where but they didn't want to say it publicly? I am sorry for causing tension and discourse. I do apologize if I gave the impression that I do not like Canadians or the British that was not my intention. I lived in a Canadian border town many years ago I liked it very much I liked being able to spend so much time with Canadians generally speaking they are a wonderful people and they have beautiful clean cities. I would be very happy to spend some serious time in Great Britain as I have many English friends, but then my English friends are more polite and don't insult my country in front of me and I do not insult theirs.

I believe I read in another thread someone said "You have to stand for something or you'll fall for anything" I agree.

 

[Beth]

[video]http://time.com/2957348/fireworks-drone/[/video]