joninliverton
BSB Addict
I was waiting for that to be picked up TG. Well done x
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Dan White! Are you for real?
- Thread starter angelone
- Start date
I was waiting for that to be picked up TG. Well done x
tangogent
Well-known Member
Nice image, isn't it?
There's a scene in one of John Waters' earlier movies in which Edie, the Egg Woman, is the empress of a realm that appears to be inhabited only by herself and an endless series of beautiful youths (none of whom are wearing enough to stay warm in the winter). Edie is imperious, of course, and gives in to her every whim. Thus, when she becomes angry, she starts shooting her attendants. One falls onto a bed lying nearby and she has the wit and vigour to shove the gun up his shapely young arse and fires.
YIKES. Total impact!
I can't believe anyone else will remember that scene, let alone that particular bit of stage business.
(Does anyone?)
TG
x
There's a scene in one of John Waters' earlier movies in which Edie, the Egg Woman, is the empress of a realm that appears to be inhabited only by herself and an endless series of beautiful youths (none of whom are wearing enough to stay warm in the winter). Edie is imperious, of course, and gives in to her every whim. Thus, when she becomes angry, she starts shooting her attendants. One falls onto a bed lying nearby and she has the wit and vigour to shove the gun up his shapely young arse and fires.
YIKES. Total impact!
I can't believe anyone else will remember that scene, let alone that particular bit of stage business.
(Does anyone?)
TG
x
joninliverton
BSB Addict
I have the John Waters box set dude. His films just crease me up.
Hello Angelone. Your comments about the name "Dan White" sort of fell off the radar here. I wanted to bring it back as I think there is an interesting discussion here.
I just saw "Milk" for the first time a few days ago. I was certainly moved by it, but then I wanted to know if it presented an accurate portrayal. Not surprisingly, I found information suggesting that in terms of Dan White, in particular, there is considerable disagreement about how he was portrayed, as well as his motives. I was particularly discomforted by the thinly veiled insinuation in the movie than Dan White was a closet homosexual. There appears to be no evidence to suggest such a thing, but it was made clear enough in the movie. A common refrain from people who are anti-homosexual is that they want to make everyone else homosexual. This seemed to be a case of the filmmakers, at least, wanting to plant the seed in the viewers' heads that Dan White was some closeted basket case, which lends some credence to the anti-homosexual argument.
Now, I realize that a movie can not necessarily portray everything in its nuanced glory accurately, but that struck me as a bit dishonest of the filmmakers at the very least. And that kind of dishonesty makes me wonder what else they didn't portray accurately. People who worked closely with Dan White point out that there was plenty of evidence to suggest that he really was concerned for the working man, whoever they might be (including gays and blacks), held many beliefs in common with Harvey Milk, supported Harvey Milk on many of his causes, and perhaps even admired him. I didn't get that sense from the movie whatsoever. There are a number of people who feel that Dan White became very upset with Milk over what he saw as a betrayal in the vote over the Youth Center, rather than lashing out in some kind of closeted homophobic rage.
I was just a kid in elementary school at the time, and nowhere near California, so I don't know much about the situation other than what I have read. While what Dan White did is certainly not to be excused or commended, I do now wonder if people are being completely honest about Harvey Milk. He was portrayed as this almost messianic figure in the movie. I didn't see any sense of a real character flaw in him. Could that possibly be right? Did he betray Dan White, someone who had actually helped him? Is it possible that Harvey Milk became a part of the very political machine he hated, and that this ultimately lead to his death at the hands of someone who was of a like mind as he on such issues but got humiliated (and for what reason) in one act?
I just saw "Milk" for the first time a few days ago. I was certainly moved by it, but then I wanted to know if it presented an accurate portrayal. Not surprisingly, I found information suggesting that in terms of Dan White, in particular, there is considerable disagreement about how he was portrayed, as well as his motives. I was particularly discomforted by the thinly veiled insinuation in the movie than Dan White was a closet homosexual. There appears to be no evidence to suggest such a thing, but it was made clear enough in the movie. A common refrain from people who are anti-homosexual is that they want to make everyone else homosexual. This seemed to be a case of the filmmakers, at least, wanting to plant the seed in the viewers' heads that Dan White was some closeted basket case, which lends some credence to the anti-homosexual argument.
Now, I realize that a movie can not necessarily portray everything in its nuanced glory accurately, but that struck me as a bit dishonest of the filmmakers at the very least. And that kind of dishonesty makes me wonder what else they didn't portray accurately. People who worked closely with Dan White point out that there was plenty of evidence to suggest that he really was concerned for the working man, whoever they might be (including gays and blacks), held many beliefs in common with Harvey Milk, supported Harvey Milk on many of his causes, and perhaps even admired him. I didn't get that sense from the movie whatsoever. There are a number of people who feel that Dan White became very upset with Milk over what he saw as a betrayal in the vote over the Youth Center, rather than lashing out in some kind of closeted homophobic rage.
I was just a kid in elementary school at the time, and nowhere near California, so I don't know much about the situation other than what I have read. While what Dan White did is certainly not to be excused or commended, I do now wonder if people are being completely honest about Harvey Milk. He was portrayed as this almost messianic figure in the movie. I didn't see any sense of a real character flaw in him. Could that possibly be right? Did he betray Dan White, someone who had actually helped him? Is it possible that Harvey Milk became a part of the very political machine he hated, and that this ultimately lead to his death at the hands of someone who was of a like mind as he on such issues but got humiliated (and for what reason) in one act?
DrabBoiz
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Huh?:
I lived in San Francisco during Harvey Milk's election, his and Moscone's assassinations, and the subsequent trial and the riots that followed.
Indeed there was much speculation even before the murders that Mr. White (who is now deceased, by suicide) was a closet homosexual. And I don't recall him "working" with Harvey except to expedite his political aspirations.
But my question to Huh? is this: is it not possible to be concerned for the working man, and also be a homosexual (albeit a closet one)?
I lived in San Francisco during Harvey Milk's election, his and Moscone's assassinations, and the subsequent trial and the riots that followed.
Indeed there was much speculation even before the murders that Mr. White (who is now deceased, by suicide) was a closet homosexual. And I don't recall him "working" with Harvey except to expedite his political aspirations.
But my question to Huh? is this: is it not possible to be concerned for the working man, and also be a homosexual (albeit a closet one)?
Hello DrabBoiz. Of course it's possible to be concerned for the working man and also be a homosexual. I don't recall saying anything which should have given you the impression that I thought it wasn't possible.
My point was that the movie made a suggestion which it didn't even try to support in any way. And, those who worked with Dan White indicated some facets of his character which were not even touched upon in the movie. This possibly presented a rather skewed picture of him. Because of this, as a thinking individual, I have to question whether or not the portrayal of Harvey Milk was accurate or also skewed. The makers of the film might contend that it wasn't their intention to produce a documentary. That's fine, but I think one needs to be careful when presenting historical accounts to assure the story is either told as accurately as possible or that it be clearly indicated as a "fictionalized" account. It's my concern that they may not have properly represented White's motives (even though his actions were wrong regardless of his motives), and they may not have accurately portrayed Milk's, either.
When you say that you don't recall White "working" with Milk except to expedite his political aspirations, I'm not sure what you mean. The whole thing about politics in SF at the time was that alliances were formed to propagate as much of one's agenda as possible. The movie clearly indicated at least this part of the drama. Milk actively courted White to get support for issues in the gay community. White did the same for his community. The problem is that those close to White say that he most certainly DID support Milk on many issues, and he EXPECTED Milk to do the same for him, but Milk betrayed him, which humiliated White within his district. That's a very significant point to kind of leave out or downplay. Seen in that light, Milk looks far less "Messianic" and virtuous than the film seems to portray him, and White seem a bit more sympathetic than he was portrayed. I don't understand how you can say White didn't work with Milk unless you are claiming that White never gave Milk's causes any support. That's not in agreement with what I've read elsewhere or saw in the movie.
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tangogent
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cumrag27
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Dear TG,
Unfortunately we have those here too! It seems hard to imagine after once agreeing to do a solo with Broke Straight Boys that there would be a problem, but it seems that dealing with this reality in real time is more daunting than they may have counted on. Too bad for them in this day and age!
Sincerely,
Stimpy
