Bonuses (not boyz but bucks)

[tucsonjayce]

OK, so here we go.... Something taking from the news and controversial. Please feel free to vent, question, rant and rave.

Bonuses

To me a bonus is a reward from the employer to employee(s) for some attained goal, benchmark, or exceptional performance in the course of their employ.

To Corporate America it would seem to be some form of renumeration negotiated in employee contracts that are in essence pay or salary under the guise of a "bonus" and not tied to anything performance related in any shape manner or form.

I especially love the retention bonuses. If the financial system were functioning and company weren't on the brink of collapse, they might make sense. But paying tose bonuses now is hard to swallow. When in the hell are these guys going to find another job? "Yes I want you to hire me, I have a lot of valuable experience. I helped ____________ loose $XX.XB just last year." Give me a break!

We forced the auto industry to renegociate it's union contracts yet we did not force any of the financial forms to renogociate any of the executive employment contracts. That is really unfair. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

The overall problem is the "conspiracy" in the board rooms across the nation that allowed this type of thinking to flourish. No one thought about anything other than getting rich no matter how the company fares. Shareholders are people who put money into the companies but the boards and management aren't really beholden to them. They fostered these contracts as a means to get rich. Problem is that these retention bonuses etc only work if everybody is getting them. Take them away or tie them to actual performance and the system will still function.

I have no problem with rewarding hard work and good performance, but did you know that Warren Buffet pays himself $100K a year and insists that no CEO is worth more than that. Everything else he makes is tied to the performance of the company. Good man!

Take corporate america to task. It's a RICO thing. Change or go to jail.
Stock options, deferred compensation, retention bonuses, annual bonuses
all need to be reviewed, redone and reduced! Do it now or from an 8x8 cell but get it done. Disclose the same to your shareholder. And make the vote of the shareholders binding (right now it is not).

OK guys, come and get it. Let's chime in discuss and have a blast doing it and maybe learn a thing or two.

Jayce

 

[Jayman01]

OK, so here we go.... Something taking from the news and controversial. Please feel free to vent, question, rant and rave.

Bonuses

To me a bonus is a reward from the employer to employee(s) for some attained goal, benchmark, or exceptional performance in the course of their employ.

To Corporate America it would seem to be some form of renumeration negotiated in employee contracts that are in essence pay or salary under the guise of a "bonus" and not tied to anything performance related in any shape manner or form.

I especially love the retention bonuses. If the financial system were functioning and company weren't on the brink of collapse, they might make sense. But paying tose bonuses now is hard to swallow. When in the hell are these guys going to find another job? "Yes I want you to hire me, I have a lot of valuable experience. I helped ____________ loose $XX.XB just last year." Give me a break!

We forced the auto industry to renegociate it's union contracts yet we did not force any of the financial forms to renogociate any of the executive employment contracts. That is really unfair. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

The overall problem is the "conspiracy" in the board rooms across the nation that allowed this type of thinking to flourish. No one thought about anything other than getting rich no matter how the company fares. Shareholders are people who put money into the companies but the boards and management aren't really beholden to them. They fostered these contracts as a means to get rich. Problem is that these retention bonuses etc only work if everybody is getting them. Take them away or tie them to actual performance and the system will still function.

I have no problem with rewarding hard work and good performance, but did you know that Warren Buffet pays himself $100K a year and insists that no CEO is worth more than that. Everything else he makes is tied to the performance of the company. Good man!

Take corporate america to task. It's a RICO thing. Change or go to jail.
Stock options, deferred compensation, retention bonuses, annual bonuses
all need to be reviewed, redone and reduced! Do it now or from an 8x8 cell but get it done. Disclose the same to your shareholder. And make the vote of the shareholders binding (right now it is not).

OK guys, come and get it. Let's chime in discuss and have a blast doing it and maybe learn a thing or two.

Jayce

I couldn't have said it better myself.

I would just like to add this. On paper it looks like these idiots are being rewarded for a major mistake. The best part for me was finding out that AIG only received some of the billions of dollars in buy out money from the Feds. Yet, they still have trillions of dollars in their financial portfolio. So, I ask you? If they did not receive this bail out money and they had to cover their losses out of their "trillions of dollars in additional funds;" would the screwups be rewarded for financial failure of canned so hard they would be lucky to get a job as a street vender?

 

[GreatLakes2]

I think BluMedia needs a site starring AIG execs. They would make magnificent tops. I mean they have already fucked the country, they have lots of practice.

 

[Markymark]

I think BluMedia needs a site starring AIG execs. They would make magnificent tops. I mean they have already fucked the country, they have lots of practice.

So, with all this practice, maybe it's time they bottom, and we screw them? Except the little bitches would probably whine the whole time! "It's too big" (so were your mistakes!) "It hurts." (So will losing your bonus money to taxes!) "I've never done this before" (Maybe you should not have done what you did to the country!)

I am, very pissed,

 

[tampa24]

OK, so here we go.... Something taking from the news and controversial. Please feel free to vent, question, rant and rave.

Bonuses

To me a bonus is a reward from the employer to employee(s) for some attained goal, benchmark, or exceptional performance in the course of their employ.

To Corporate America it would seem to be some form of renumeration negotiated in employee contracts that are in essence pay or salary under the guise of a "bonus" and not tied to anything performance related in any shape manner or form.

I especially love the retention bonuses. If the financial system were functioning and company weren't on the brink of collapse, they might make sense. But paying tose bonuses now is hard to swallow. When in the hell are these guys going to find another job? "Yes I want you to hire me, I have a lot of valuable experience. I helped ____________ loose $XX.XB just last year." Give me a break!

We forced the auto industry to renegociate it's union contracts yet we did not force any of the financial forms to renogociate any of the executive employment contracts. That is really unfair. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

The overall problem is the "conspiracy" in the board rooms across the nation that allowed this type of thinking to flourish. No one thought about anything other than getting rich no matter how the company fares. Shareholders are people who put money into the companies but the boards and management aren't really beholden to them. They fostered these contracts as a means to get rich. Problem is that these retention bonuses etc only work if everybody is getting them. Take them away or tie them to actual performance and the system will still function.

I have no problem with rewarding hard work and good performance, but did you know that Warren Buffet pays himself $100K a year and insists that no CEO is worth more than that. Everything else he makes is tied to the performance of the company. Good man!

Take corporate america to task. It's a RICO thing. Change or go to jail.
Stock options, deferred compensation, retention bonuses, annual bonuses
all need to be reviewed, redone and reduced! Do it now or from an 8x8 cell but get it done. Disclose the same to your shareholder. And make the vote of the shareholders binding (right now it is not).

OK guys, come and get it. Let's chime in discuss and have a blast doing it and maybe learn a thing or two.

Jayce

Hey Jayce,

You know I'll jump in. LOL I can't leave you hanging there!

I've made some of the same points in other posts when we talked about executive compensation. Companies in trouble lately like to say that they have to pay these bigwigs outragous sums of money so that they will stay with this struggling company. Of course that begs the question: If they were such stellar employees and so brilliant then why is the company in bankruptcy? Let them go! And like you say Jayce, with a resume like that in this job market who will hire them anyway? They're lucky to still be employed! They shouldn't be.

AIG is THE largest insurance company in the world. And highly profitable, until... Until it was brought down by one relatively small office in London that decided they could make a killing by selling insurance to major companies that were heavily invested in these bundled credit schemes that were full of bad mortgaes. I have no business degree but here is what I understand from talking to people in the know and reading. The insurance that this London office sold guarenteed payment of close to or equal to the FULL value of these bundles of credit in the derivatives market. Apparently it was never envisioned by these Einsteins that the credit default swap portfolios could all start to go bust at the same time.

Then that worst case scenario happend for AIG. At the beginning of the Credit Default Swap bust they were on the hook for $500 billion. The banking regulations said that AIG had to put up capital of at least $240 billion in 2 week's time to cover this potential loss. Of course AIG didn't have a quarter of a trillion dollars laying around. So they had to cry "Uncle." Sam that is. If AIG went bankrupt right then it would have brought down most of the international banking system. So the Fed caved and started "loaning" them X billions of dollars. We have loaned them so much money by now that the company is effectively nationalized. The total so far is $170 Billion that we have given to AIG and with no end in sight. We are all but certain to be giving them billions more in the coming months. The U.S. government now owns 80% of the company. Nobody in their wildest dreams thinks that AIG is ever going to be able to pay back more than a fraction of what the taxpayers are giving them, now and into the future.

 

[GreatLakes2]

What I don't get is this:
AIG insured a bunch of loans that were made to lenders that could never pay them back.
The loans went bust.
AIG paid out claims to the banks to cover the banks' losses.
But now we are not only giving AIG money to keep them afloat, but we are also bailing out the banks and there is talk of bailing out the borrowers too.

Why are we paying up to three times over for the bad debt???

 

[tucsonjayce]

The futon is too nice

So, with all this practice, maybe it's time they bottom, and we screw them? Except the little bitches would probably whine the whole time! "It's too big" (so were your mistakes!) "It hurts." (So will losing your bonus money to taxes!) "I've never done this before" (Maybe you should not have done what you did to the country!)

I am, very pissed,

Bottoming would be good for these guys, but not on the futon, that's was too good for them. I'm thinking hard time for lack of fiduciary responsibility and then getting to know a big, brawny, hung, horny cellmate!!!! Think OZ for Corporate White collar types!!!!!!!!

Your humble servant,

Jayce

 

[tampa24]

What I don't get is this:
AIG insured a bunch of loans that were made to lenders that could never pay them back.
The loans went bust.
AIG paid out claims to the banks to cover the banks' losses.
But now we are not only giving AIG money to keep them afloat, but we are also bailing out the banks and there is talk of bailing out the borrowers too.

Why are we paying up to three times over for the bad debt???

It's complicated. The banks are going bankrupt even with AIG paying out huge claims on some of the banks' INSURED investmants. Only a tiny fraction of the banks' losses however were insured. By AIG or whomever... On the face of it though it sure does appear to be double and triple dipping.

 

[Jayman01]

It's complicated. The banks are going bankrupt even with AIG paying out huge claims on some of the banks' INSURED investmants. Only a tiny fraction of the banks' losses however were insured. By AIG or whomever... On the face of it though it sure does appear to be double and triple dipping.

A lot of banks invest in lucrative stock markets to mature their investments quickly and keep money working. What has essentially happened is that not only have many mortgages lost value a lot of investment portfolio stock lost value also. Essentially all of the money was on paper with appraised value. Then everybody went into panic mode at the same time and tried to cash out their investments. This devalued stock on a world wide scale as well as mortgage values. The best thing most of the banking industry can do is refinance the mortgages to more affordable mortgages based on today's present values. This way they are not taking a total loss. Also property values will eventually recover. The issue is now that the banks know that the feds are bankrolling a lot of these losses they are holding out to see how much they can recover through the feds first before considering to refinance. AIG is just partially responsible to broker most of the bail outs ... It is all so strange.

MarkyMark and Tucon I am with you.... I have my gun ready. Who is first?

 

[tucsonjayce]

Let's form a posse!

Hey Jayman, let's form a posse from the world of forum and let's go get some of these guys........ We can get a letter of marque from our gracious sovereign, MM I and get to work. We can leave W. Buffet and even Liddy of the list, but the rest are fair game. A little B&D and S&M (not stand and model, the real hard core shit) before we turn them over to the authorities and their come to Jesus moment when they meet their new cellmates!

Long Live the Republic! Power to the People!

Jayce

 

[tampa24]

Hey Jayman, let's form a posse from the world of forum and let's go get some of these guys........ We can get a letter of marque from our gracious sovereign, MM I and get to work. We can leave W. Buffet and even Liddy of the list, but the rest are fair game. A little B&D and S&M (not stand and model, the real hard core shit) before we turn them over to the authorities and their come to Jesus moment when they meet their new cellmates!

Long Live the Republic! Power to the People!

Jayce

Yeah. White collar criminals in their cute suits and ties could be fun. We could get them broken in for life in the prison showers. Why not? They did it to us first. And without a kiss or lube!! LOL We as taxpayers have already paid for the privilige!

 

[Jayman01]

Hey Jayman, let's form a posse from the world of forum and let's go get some of these guys........ We can get a letter of marque from our gracious sovereign, MM I and get to work. We can leave W. Buffet and even Liddy of the list, but the rest are fair game. A little B&D and S&M (not stand and model, the real hard core shit) before we turn them over to the authorities and their come to Jesus moment when they meet their new cellmates!

Long Live the Republic! Power to the People!

Jayce

I am all for them having a big JC moment. Why can't we just put them all in cells with their feet and ankles tied together and there asses hoisted in the air about waist high like a piñata. Oh, excuse me, I lost myself for a moment. Bless their hearts. I am not sure what would happen like that but I certainly think they would find some kind of religion to see them through...

 

[Jayman01]

Yeah. White collar criminals in their cute suits and ties could be fun. We could get them broken in for life in the prison showers. Why not? They did it to us first. And without a kiss or lube!! LOL We as taxpayers have already paid for the privilige!

And not even so much as a reach around either...

 

[tampa24]

I am all for them having a big JC moment. Why cant we just put them the cells with their feet and ankles tied together and there asses hoisted in the air about waist high like a piñata. Oh, excuse I lost myself for a moment. Bless their heats. I am not sure what would happen like that but I certain they would find some kind of religion to see them through...

I'm sure they would come up with many fervent and animated chants and rituals invoking the name of the Almighty!

 

[Markymark]

I am all for them having a big JC moment. Why can't we just put them all in cells with their feet and ankles tied together and there asses hoisted in the air about waist high like a piñata. Oh, excuse me, I lost myself for a moment. Bless their hearts. I am not sure what would happen like that but I certainly think they would find some kind of religion to see them through...

That's a bad reflection on decent pinatas everywhere, jay. You know pinatas are never full of sh*t!

I am still pissed!

 

[tucsonjayce]

Corporate responsibility

I was reading an article (can't seem to find it, either on CNN or Time) about the source of the whole compensation problem, the board and the compensation committee of the board. These are supposedly the people with the fiduciary responsibility for the management of the company, including compensation.

The problem I see is that who are these people responsible to? One would think that a public company would be responsible to the stockholder (they keep on saying that their actions are in the best interests) but are they really. We (Mikey and I) had shares in K-Mart. Management decided to File Chap 11, wiped out shareholder equity, issued new stock, raised money and bought Sears. Gave themselves bonuses for seeing the company thru. Our equity went Poof! and disappeared and we were not given new stock. Where was the responsibility to the stockholders? Nowhere3, but the board and management sailed thru with "flying colors".

Stockholders must vote on compensation packages now. Big deal, the vote is NON-BINDING. So "they" get to do whatever is in their best interest.

Let's not just go after some of these division heads but at the Boards themselves. Compensation committees, ethics and the whole shebang. If the company fails, we can get their retainers/stipends and stock options, and get rid of them. Failed company = New Board + New Management.

Let's clean up corporate america starting at the top. If Detroit has to renegotiate their labor contracts then the executive compansation packages need to be renegotiated as well. Tie everything into actual performance measures. Let's give the shareholders more control over their investments and make management responsible to someone again.

Well guys thanks for letting me rant and what think you?

Yours always,

Jayce

 

[Jayman01]

I was reading an article (can't seem to find it, either on CNN or Time) about the source of the whole compensation problem, the board and the compensation committee of the board. These are supposedly the people with the fiduciary responsibility for the management of the company, including compensation.

The problem I see is that who are these people responsible to? One would think that a public company would be responsible to the stockholder (they keep on saying that their actions are in the best interests) but are they really. We (Mikey and I) had shares in K-Mart. Management decided to File Chap 11, wiped out shareholder equity, issued new stock, raised money and bought Sears. Gave themselves bonuses for seeing the company thru. Our equity went Poof! and disappeared and we were not given new stock. Where was the responsibility to the stockholders? Nowhere3, but the board and management sailed thru with "flying colors".

Stockholders must vote on compensation packages now. Big deal, the vote is NON-BINDING. So "they" get to do whatever is in their best interest.

Let's not just go after some of these division heads but at the Boards themselves. Compensation committees, ethics and the whole shebang. If the company fails, we can get their retainers/stipends and stock options, and get rid of them. Failed company = New Board + New Management.

Let's clean up corporate america starting at the top. If Detroit has to renegotiate their labor contracts then the executive compansation packages need to be renegotiated as well. Tie everything into actual performance measures. Let's give the shareholders more control over their investments and make management responsible to someone again.

Well guys thanks for letting me rant and what think you?

Yours always,

Jayce

How about it.

 

[tampa24]

I was reading an article (can't seem to find it, either on CNN or Time) about the source of the whole compensation problem, the board and the compensation committee of the board. These are supposedly the people with the fiduciary responsibility for the management of the company, including compensation.

The problem I see is that who are these people responsible to? One would think that a public company would be responsible to the stockholder (they keep on saying that their actions are in the best interests) but are they really. We (Mikey and I) had shares in K-Mart. Management decided to File Chap 11, wiped out shareholder equity, issued new stock, raised money and bought Sears. Gave themselves bonuses for seeing the company thru. Our equity went Poof! and disappeared and we were not given new stock. Where was the responsibility to the stockholders? Nowhere3, but the board and management sailed thru with "flying colors".

Stockholders must vote on compensation packages now. Big deal, the vote is NON-BINDING. So "they" get to do whatever is in their best interest.

Let's not just go after some of these division heads but at the Boards themselves. Compensation committees, ethics and the whole shebang. If the company fails, we can get their retainers/stipends and stock options, and get rid of them. Failed company = New Board + New Management.

Let's clean up corporate america starting at the top. If Detroit has to renegotiate their labor contracts then the executive compansation packages need to be renegotiated as well. Tie everything into actual performance measures. Let's give the shareholders more control over their investments and make management responsible to someone again.

Well guys thanks for letting me rant and what think you?

Yours always,

Jayce

You're right Jayce. Members of the board should not be the ones in charge of deciding their own salary. Talk about leaving the fox in charge of the hen house! One would think that would fall under the category of DUH!... But here in America we will actually have to pass laws to make sure that stockholders have a say in the executives' compensation. And that raises be tied to performance rather than just seniority or some weird form of nepotism.

That should also include the perks that purposely get buried in the fine print. There are many other things they get for free in addition to their actual salaries. Private jets aren't the only thing they get on the shareholder's dime. How about things like country club membership dues? How about the private limo driver? Company cars (plural) for their own personal use. The "free" accountant for their own wealth management? The free use of company "retreats." Use of the services of company lawyers for their personal legal affairs. Unlimited expense accounts for taking their wives and family on vacations and out to dinner on the company's money. It goes on and on.