I just heard of Zac who as an Afghan interpreter that took 7 years to make it out of the country. He was 18 when he started helping , risking his life to rescue & even fight the Taliban. He and his family with the aid of the soldiers here & there finally today made it to an airplane out of the country. Just one of the lucky ones among so many still trying.
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Stories of Afgan personnel
- Thread starter br6205
- Start date
It's heartbreaking to see that many of those Afghan allies who helped us at great personal risk to themselves and their families are going to be left to die at the hands of the Taliban. I'm really outraged by this. It didn't have to play out this way. Those in the administration were being too bureaucratic in the final months leading to Afghanistan's collapse to Taliban control. The Biden administration rightfully worried about terrorists slipping through the cracks and being allowed into the U.S. posing as former interpreters and U.S. allies. But they dithered and wasted months of precious time arguing over the wording of paperwork and the processing thereof that they would require to grant these people visas and so on.
They argued among themselves and procrastinated over where they might bring the allies out of Afghanistan first while their paperwork and the vetting was still processing. Guam offered to take them in first as a way station for processing. The U.S. government declined. They worried that Afghan allies would have too many legal rights to appeal if they were already on U.S. soil. They talked about sending them to another Middle Eastern country first, outside of the U.S. Then they talked about just finally bringing them directly to the U.S. anyway. (Now in the midst of chaos it seems like a hybrid of both plans is in play. Sending some to Qatar to wait, while bringing some others directly to the U.S. for processing.) Going back for months when they saw the U.S. footprint in Afghanistan winding down, the U.S. government didn't seem to show nearly enough sense of urgency or concern.
Much of a percentage of this Afghan debacle can be laid at the feet of Trump. Not all. But a very good portion. However Biden's administration has been in office for nearly 7 months before now. So the major decisions on how to get our allies out of Afghanistan in a safe, orderly and timely manner rest mostly with him and his people. I personally blame Trump for most of the final failure in Afghanistan based on all of his negotiating and appeasing the Taliban before he left office. Maybe 70%. But evacuating Afghan allies is something that should have started in earnest 5, 6 and 7 months ago. (When we still had some control and negotiating power both on the ground and in the air.) Not a half-hearted effort in a ludicrous 10 day or so period as it appears to be now.
As it is, the only way out for our allies is for those lucky enough to be able to safely reach Kabul. And specifically safely reach the airport in Kabul. It's a big third world impoverished country full of rugged mountain ranges. If you're an Afghan ally living in Kandahar or any other far-flung region far from the capital, you're totally screwed, or dead. You don't go to your corner rental car lot, load up the wife and kids, and zoom straight off down the smooth highway to Kabul in 3-10 hours. It didn't have to be this way. *smh*
They argued among themselves and procrastinated over where they might bring the allies out of Afghanistan first while their paperwork and the vetting was still processing. Guam offered to take them in first as a way station for processing. The U.S. government declined. They worried that Afghan allies would have too many legal rights to appeal if they were already on U.S. soil. They talked about sending them to another Middle Eastern country first, outside of the U.S. Then they talked about just finally bringing them directly to the U.S. anyway. (Now in the midst of chaos it seems like a hybrid of both plans is in play. Sending some to Qatar to wait, while bringing some others directly to the U.S. for processing.) Going back for months when they saw the U.S. footprint in Afghanistan winding down, the U.S. government didn't seem to show nearly enough sense of urgency or concern.
Much of a percentage of this Afghan debacle can be laid at the feet of Trump. Not all. But a very good portion. However Biden's administration has been in office for nearly 7 months before now. So the major decisions on how to get our allies out of Afghanistan in a safe, orderly and timely manner rest mostly with him and his people. I personally blame Trump for most of the final failure in Afghanistan based on all of his negotiating and appeasing the Taliban before he left office. Maybe 70%. But evacuating Afghan allies is something that should have started in earnest 5, 6 and 7 months ago. (When we still had some control and negotiating power both on the ground and in the air.) Not a half-hearted effort in a ludicrous 10 day or so period as it appears to be now.
As it is, the only way out for our allies is for those lucky enough to be able to safely reach Kabul. And specifically safely reach the airport in Kabul. It's a big third world impoverished country full of rugged mountain ranges. If you're an Afghan ally living in Kandahar or any other far-flung region far from the capital, you're totally screwed, or dead. You don't go to your corner rental car lot, load up the wife and kids, and zoom straight off down the smooth highway to Kabul in 3-10 hours. It didn't have to be this way. *smh*
I'm not sure by what measure he is referring to, Br. (And I happen to like Lawrence O'Donnell.) But that's a very broad, optimisitic and generalizing statement. Is Vietnam being described as worse based on the number of evacuees who successfully got out by the end? Right now we are still in process. But I'm guessing the number we successfully get out of Afghanistan will be considered by many to be very low, and to be a failure. I'm just guessing here. But I wouldn't be surprised if we leave about 80% of our allies and interpreters behind to die. Maybe more? In terms of actual cost (and accounting for inflation over 46 years) did we spend more or less than the equivalent of $2.1 Trillion in Vietnam, like we did in Afghanistan? Only to lose both wars in the end? The dead body count of U.S. casualties in Afghanistan is probably less than Vietnam. But our NATO allies left many dead on the Afghan battlefields also.
Also we haven't seen the final act in Afghanistan with the U.S. pullout. Eventually as we draw down to the final hours and minutes, we will have only a few hundred U.S. troops (or less) at the Kabul airport. Will the Taliban take advantage of that moment of defensive weakness to try to kill the remaining U.S. troops trying to get on the last of the planes? Will they try to get that "Kodak moment" of a handful of U.S. troops desperately trying to scramble onto rescue helicoptors moments before armed Taliban overrun the tarmacs?
It's still a little too soon to write the obituary on the U.S. war in Afghanistan. And it's certainly too early if one is (unenviably) wanting to argue that Afghanistan was a more successful failure than Vietnam.
Yes. That's true too. The Russians got their a's handed to them. And so did the British back in the 1800's. They don't call Afghanistan "The Graveyard of Empires" for nothing.
As upset as I am at the incompetence and the flat-footed Keystone Cops nature of our retreat...and I am...I will be glad that we will not be pouring any more significant U.S. tax dollars into that black hole. It was waaaay past time to stop throwing new good money after bad.
There is still plenty we can do from a safer distance if we need to. We have Tomohawk missles, other cruise missiles, planes that can bomb from the air, drones that can target and destroy people and places remotely. So we still have viable options of things we can do if things really start to go to hell in a handbasket later. If the U.S. mainland or our allies abroad are threatened from within Afghanistan, we can still do a lot of unpleasant things to them, short of invading the whole country again.
As upset as I am at the incompetence and the flat-footed Keystone Cops nature of our retreat...and I am...I will be glad that we will not be pouring any more significant U.S. tax dollars into that black hole. It was waaaay past time to stop throwing new good money after bad.
There is still plenty we can do from a safer distance if we need to. We have Tomohawk missles, other cruise missiles, planes that can bomb from the air, drones that can target and destroy people and places remotely. So we still have viable options of things we can do if things really start to go to hell in a handbasket later. If the U.S. mainland or our allies abroad are threatened from within Afghanistan, we can still do a lot of unpleasant things to them, short of invading the whole country again.
That's great and all. And I hope the number of evacuees continue to go way up. But there area also many who can't get past the Talian checkpoints to get through the gates of the airport. And then there are all those other allies of ours desperately wanting to get out (before they're killed) but who live so far from Kabul, that reaching the airport is nothing but a pipe dream.
But at this point I guess the only satisfaction to be found is in the smaller victories.
But at this point I guess the only satisfaction to be found is in the smaller victories.
Here's an article from Business Insider that speaks to this topic. It features that loathesome individual who I feel very justified in calling an ultra-racist, ultra-zenophobic, ultra fascist, Jewish Nazi. And please don't interpret my pointing out his Jewishness as anti-semitism on my part. I have many Jewish ancestors and a few direct relatives of the faith today in my own family. My Ancestry DNA results show that I am 27% Central and East European Askanasi Jew. I mention this guy's Jewish background to point out the supreme historical irony of somebody who's Jewish but who has an unashamedly almost Nazi-like zeal, in that he absolutely hates foreigners. Like Hispanics for instance. I assume he hates Black people too. But I have no direct proof of that. But he seems to especially hate and villify any foreigners who want to immigrate to the U.S. Darker-skinned foreigners especially. (Save perhaps some white people who already speak fluent English of course.)
Plus the irony is not lost on me either that he bears such a striking resemblence to Hitler's Minister of Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels.
Here's a pic of the top Nazi henchman and very close Hitler confidante:
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Business Insider
A former Pence adviser said Trump had 4 years to help Afghan allies leave the country but Stephen Miller's 'racist hysteria' blocked it from happening
Kelsey Vlamis
Sat, August 21, 2021, 3:35 AM
Former White House aide Stephen Miller is still earning a government salary, new documents show. Anna Moneymaker-Pool/Getty Images
* A former national security adviser to Mike Pence blasted Donald Trump and Stephen Miller Friday.
* She claimed the pair actively worked against the visa process for Afghans who helped US troops.
* The US is now working to evacuate tens of thousands of Afghan allies.
A former national security official blamed the Trump administration and Stephen Miller's "racist hysteria" for impeding the visa application process for Afghans who worked with the US.
Olivia Troye worked as the homeland security and counterterrorism adviser to Vice President Mike Pence. In a Twitter thread Friday, she blasted the Trump administration for its handling of the Special Immigrant Visa (SIV) programs that provide a path to US residency for locals who worked with the US government in Afghanistan.
"There were cabinet mtgs about this during the Trump Admin where Stephen Miller would peddle his racist hysteria about Iraq & Afghanistan. He & his enablers across gov't would undermine anyone who worked on solving the SIV issue by devastating the system at DHS & State," Troye wrote.
Since the Taliban swiftly seized control of Afghanistan Sunday, the US has been struggling to evacuate Americans as well as tens of thousands of Afghan allies who have worked with the US over the past two decades.
The Biden administration has come under sharp criticism from both sides of the aisle for its handling of the US troop withdrawal and subsequent evacuations. But criticism has also been aimed at the Trump administration, including Miller in particular.
Troye said she worked on the SIV issue but got "nowhere" because allies of President Donald Trump and Miller at the Justice Department, Department of Homeland Security, and other security agencies "made an already cumbersome SIV process even more challenging."
She said many people within the administration believed the matter was urgent but that many were afraid to oppose the president's allies, adding that there were "many closed door meetings" strategizing how to address the issue.
"Trump had FOUR years-while putting this plan in place-to evacuate these Afghan allies who were the lifelines for many of us who spent time in Afghanistan," she said. "The process slowed to a trickle for reviews/other "priorities"-then came to a halt."
An Afghanistan War veteran told CNN this week that Miller "should be held accountable for war crimes" for opposing the resettlement of endangered Afghans, and that he was "complicit" in their deaths.
Miller is an advocate for strict immigration limits. In an appearance on Fox News Tuesday night, Miller said "those advocating for mass Afghan resettlement are doing so for political and not humanitarian reasons," adding that it would also be too expensive.
"The United States of America never, ever, made a promise, written or unwritten, to the people of Afghanistan that if after 20 years, they were unable to secure their own country, that we would take them to ours. That is nonsense. That has never been US government policy," Miller said.
Insider has reached out to Trump's office and Troye for comment. Stephen Miller could not immediately be reached for comment.
Read the original article on Business Insider
**********************************************
Source: https://www.yahoo.com/news/former-pence-adviser-said-trump-073525391.html
Plus the irony is not lost on me either that he bears such a striking resemblence to Hitler's Minister of Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels.
Here's a pic of the top Nazi henchman and very close Hitler confidante:
***********************************************************************
Business Insider
A former Pence adviser said Trump had 4 years to help Afghan allies leave the country but Stephen Miller's 'racist hysteria' blocked it from happening
Kelsey Vlamis
Sat, August 21, 2021, 3:35 AM
Former White House aide Stephen Miller is still earning a government salary, new documents show. Anna Moneymaker-Pool/Getty Images
* A former national security adviser to Mike Pence blasted Donald Trump and Stephen Miller Friday.
* She claimed the pair actively worked against the visa process for Afghans who helped US troops.
* The US is now working to evacuate tens of thousands of Afghan allies.
A former national security official blamed the Trump administration and Stephen Miller's "racist hysteria" for impeding the visa application process for Afghans who worked with the US.
Olivia Troye worked as the homeland security and counterterrorism adviser to Vice President Mike Pence. In a Twitter thread Friday, she blasted the Trump administration for its handling of the Special Immigrant Visa (SIV) programs that provide a path to US residency for locals who worked with the US government in Afghanistan.
"There were cabinet mtgs about this during the Trump Admin where Stephen Miller would peddle his racist hysteria about Iraq & Afghanistan. He & his enablers across gov't would undermine anyone who worked on solving the SIV issue by devastating the system at DHS & State," Troye wrote.
Since the Taliban swiftly seized control of Afghanistan Sunday, the US has been struggling to evacuate Americans as well as tens of thousands of Afghan allies who have worked with the US over the past two decades.
The Biden administration has come under sharp criticism from both sides of the aisle for its handling of the US troop withdrawal and subsequent evacuations. But criticism has also been aimed at the Trump administration, including Miller in particular.
Troye said she worked on the SIV issue but got "nowhere" because allies of President Donald Trump and Miller at the Justice Department, Department of Homeland Security, and other security agencies "made an already cumbersome SIV process even more challenging."
She said many people within the administration believed the matter was urgent but that many were afraid to oppose the president's allies, adding that there were "many closed door meetings" strategizing how to address the issue.
"Trump had FOUR years-while putting this plan in place-to evacuate these Afghan allies who were the lifelines for many of us who spent time in Afghanistan," she said. "The process slowed to a trickle for reviews/other "priorities"-then came to a halt."
An Afghanistan War veteran told CNN this week that Miller "should be held accountable for war crimes" for opposing the resettlement of endangered Afghans, and that he was "complicit" in their deaths.
Miller is an advocate for strict immigration limits. In an appearance on Fox News Tuesday night, Miller said "those advocating for mass Afghan resettlement are doing so for political and not humanitarian reasons," adding that it would also be too expensive.
"The United States of America never, ever, made a promise, written or unwritten, to the people of Afghanistan that if after 20 years, they were unable to secure their own country, that we would take them to ours. That is nonsense. That has never been US government policy," Miller said.
Insider has reached out to Trump's office and Troye for comment. Stephen Miller could not immediately be reached for comment.
Read the original article on Business Insider
**********************************************
Source: https://www.yahoo.com/news/former-pence-adviser-said-trump-073525391.html
On the contrary jews have a history of doing so and others trying to deny their heritage. aNothing new. I may not believe in a God that allows so many atrotraccities but I never would deny my heritage just as I would deny being gay. Do we not have the same thing wrt gays?
Kansas City Star
I served in Afghanistan as a US Marine, twice. Here’s the truth in two sentences
Lucas Kunce
Mon, August 23, 2021, 6:00 AM
What we are seeing in Afghanistan right now shouldn’t shock you. It only seems that way because our institutions are steeped in systematic dishonesty. It doesn’t require a dissertation to explain what you’re seeing. Just two sentences.
One: For 20 years, politicians, elites and D.C. military leaders lied to us about Afghanistan.
Two: What happened last week was inevitable, and anyone saying differently is still lying to you.
I know because I was there. Twice. On special operations task forces. I learned Pashto as a U.S. Marine captain and spoke to everyone I could there: everyday people, elites, allies and yes, even the Taliban
The truth is that the Afghan National Security Forces was a jobs program for Afghans, propped up by U.S. taxpayer dollars — a military jobs program populated by nonmilitary people or “paper” forces (that didn’t really exist) and a bevy of elites grabbing what they could when they could.
You probably didn’t know that. That’s the point.
And it wasn’t just in Afghanistan. They also lied about Iraq.
I led a team of Marines training Iraqi security forces to defend their country. When I arrived I received a “stoplight” chart on their supposed capabilities in dozens of missions and responsibilities. Green meant they were good. Yellow was needed improvement; red said they couldn’t do it at all.
I was delighted to see how far along they were on paper — until I actually began working with them. I attempted to adjust the charts to reflect reality and was quickly shut down. The ratings could not go down. That was the deal. It was the kind of lie that kept the war going.
So when people ask me if we made the right call getting out of Afghanistan in 2021, I answer truthfully: Absolutely not. The right call was getting out in 2002. 2003. Every year we didn’t get out was another year the Taliban used to refine their skills and tactics against us — the best fighting force in the world. After two decades, $2 trillion and nearly 2,500 American lives lost, 2021 was way too late to make the right call.
You’d think when it all came crumbling down around them, they’d accept the truth. Think again.
War-hungry hawks are suggesting our soldiers weren’t in harm’s way. Well, when I was there, two incredible Marines in my unit were killed.
Elitist hacks are even blaming the American people for what happened this week. The same American people that they spent years lying to about Afghanistan. Are you kidding me?
We deserve better. Instead of politicians spending $6.4 trillion to “nation build” in the Middle East, we should start nation building right here at home.
I can’t believe that would be a controversial proposal, but already in Washington, we see some of the same architects of these Middle Eastern disasters balking at the idea of investing a fraction of that amount to build up our own country.
The lies about Afghanistan matter not just because of the money spent or the lives lost, but because they are representative of a systematic dishonesty that is destroying our country from the inside out.
Remember when they told us the economy was back? Another lie.
Our state of Missouri was home to the worst economic recovery from the Great Recession in this part of the country. I see the boarded-up stores and the vacant lots — one of which used to be my family’s home. When our country’s elites were preaching about how they had solved the financial crisis and the housing market was booming, I watched the house I joined the Marine Corps out of sit on the market for two years. My dad finally got $43,000 for it. He owed $78,000.
The only way out is to level with the American people. I’ll start. With the two-sentence truth about what we are seeing in Afghanistan right now:
For 20 years, politicians, elites and D.C. military leaders lied to us about Afghanistan.
What happened last week was inevitable, and anyone saying differently is still lying to you.
Cole County native Lucas Kunce is a Marine veteran and antitrust advocate. He is a Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate.
***************************************************
Source: https://www.yahoo.com/news/served-afghanistan-us-marine-twice-100000389.html
I served in Afghanistan as a US Marine, twice. Here’s the truth in two sentences
Lucas Kunce
Mon, August 23, 2021, 6:00 AM
What we are seeing in Afghanistan right now shouldn’t shock you. It only seems that way because our institutions are steeped in systematic dishonesty. It doesn’t require a dissertation to explain what you’re seeing. Just two sentences.
One: For 20 years, politicians, elites and D.C. military leaders lied to us about Afghanistan.
Two: What happened last week was inevitable, and anyone saying differently is still lying to you.
I know because I was there. Twice. On special operations task forces. I learned Pashto as a U.S. Marine captain and spoke to everyone I could there: everyday people, elites, allies and yes, even the Taliban
The truth is that the Afghan National Security Forces was a jobs program for Afghans, propped up by U.S. taxpayer dollars — a military jobs program populated by nonmilitary people or “paper” forces (that didn’t really exist) and a bevy of elites grabbing what they could when they could.
You probably didn’t know that. That’s the point.
And it wasn’t just in Afghanistan. They also lied about Iraq.
I led a team of Marines training Iraqi security forces to defend their country. When I arrived I received a “stoplight” chart on their supposed capabilities in dozens of missions and responsibilities. Green meant they were good. Yellow was needed improvement; red said they couldn’t do it at all.
I was delighted to see how far along they were on paper — until I actually began working with them. I attempted to adjust the charts to reflect reality and was quickly shut down. The ratings could not go down. That was the deal. It was the kind of lie that kept the war going.
So when people ask me if we made the right call getting out of Afghanistan in 2021, I answer truthfully: Absolutely not. The right call was getting out in 2002. 2003. Every year we didn’t get out was another year the Taliban used to refine their skills and tactics against us — the best fighting force in the world. After two decades, $2 trillion and nearly 2,500 American lives lost, 2021 was way too late to make the right call.
You’d think when it all came crumbling down around them, they’d accept the truth. Think again.
War-hungry hawks are suggesting our soldiers weren’t in harm’s way. Well, when I was there, two incredible Marines in my unit were killed.
Elitist hacks are even blaming the American people for what happened this week. The same American people that they spent years lying to about Afghanistan. Are you kidding me?
We deserve better. Instead of politicians spending $6.4 trillion to “nation build” in the Middle East, we should start nation building right here at home.
I can’t believe that would be a controversial proposal, but already in Washington, we see some of the same architects of these Middle Eastern disasters balking at the idea of investing a fraction of that amount to build up our own country.
The lies about Afghanistan matter not just because of the money spent or the lives lost, but because they are representative of a systematic dishonesty that is destroying our country from the inside out.
Remember when they told us the economy was back? Another lie.
Our state of Missouri was home to the worst economic recovery from the Great Recession in this part of the country. I see the boarded-up stores and the vacant lots — one of which used to be my family’s home. When our country’s elites were preaching about how they had solved the financial crisis and the housing market was booming, I watched the house I joined the Marine Corps out of sit on the market for two years. My dad finally got $43,000 for it. He owed $78,000.
The only way out is to level with the American people. I’ll start. With the two-sentence truth about what we are seeing in Afghanistan right now:
For 20 years, politicians, elites and D.C. military leaders lied to us about Afghanistan.
What happened last week was inevitable, and anyone saying differently is still lying to you.
Cole County native Lucas Kunce is a Marine veteran and antitrust advocate. He is a Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate.
***************************************************
Source: https://www.yahoo.com/news/served-afghanistan-us-marine-twice-100000389.html
mikeyank
Long time forumite
Thanks for posting that Tampa. I try to ignore the conservative Pro-Trump media but I can't help seeing headlines in newspapers and on my you tube feed pushing Fox shows with provocative titles about Joe Biden and his handling of the evacuation of Afghanistan. They ignore that it was Trump who initiated the talks with the Taliban and Trump who kept harping on ending US involvement in "endless wars". And so now to put all the chaos on the Biden administration is more than unfair. So I appreciate the perspective of a person who served both in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Yes. His explanation certainly seems to match the reality of what we saw happen in both Iraq and Afghanistan. It would appear that Afghanistan (after 20 years of investment) still had no capable or motivated modern army to defend the country. It was a "jobs program" that gave them a paycheck while they posed as and pretended to be qualified soldiers. Plus the corruption at the top was so bad that I wouldfn't be surprised if many Afghan soldiers were not getting regular pay. And that much of it was being embezzled on the way down to them.
Maybe the author is right about timing too. And that getting out after 20 years was 19 years too long.
Maybe the author is right about timing too. And that getting out after 20 years was 19 years too long.
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I agree with the above. It was all predictable & lets face it many people made big bucks from it and at the same time did not serve. A certain most corrupt person as one well known movie character has become well known for saying shall remain unnamed (the exact quote escapes me)).
