Respect for ALL MODELS. . . pursuant to a discussion, with Tampa

[Ambivalent]

Hi, guys ~

I don't post here very often, any longer. But this conversation originated in a discussion Tampa and I had, about models who take up side-careers, on various sites, or social media, to supplement their income (some members, I know, think this is a bad thing); and, more importantly, about the way members treat models, generally.

Tampa kindly appreciated what I had to say (as usual, he was far too generous): and suggested that I post some of the ideas I expressed to him, here. With some reluctance, I have agreed to do so. And. . . here are my thoughts, on this subject (which begin, as it were, in mid-stream) And I am not certain whether is it truly WISE to offer these (reconstructed) thoughts, HERE, but, some combination of vanity, and passion, has degraded my better judgement - - - so, here goes:

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(Tampa) the fact is, if you start out POOR, the United States of America is the WORST COUNTRY in the world, in which to find and keep a job; pay off your debts; and get life really GOING. http://www.slate.com/articles/life/...ng_in_bootstrap_america_daily_annoyances.html

If you are saddled with minor criminal offences, like (for example) marijuana possession - it can make it almost IMPOSSIBLE to get a job. (And let's be clear - I am not a marijuana-fan, or user, though I have lots of friends who are. . . but I think all respectable medical studies show that marijuana is less harmful than WHISKY - - - and it is soon going to be legalized in Canada, anyway. But being caught with a "baggie", can still RUIN a person's employment future, in the U.S.A.) http://www.theatlantic.com/business...riminal-record-shouldnt-ruin-a-career/388138/

When you add to that, the fact that the United States has the WORST public-health system in the civilized world (Obamacare made it a LITTLE BIT BETTER, but was really only a first step). . . .
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/getting-mental-health-on-the-docket/485996/

You've got a perfect f***ing STORM, for kids who are raised in poor, dysfunctional, families - - - many of whom grow up experiencing physical and sexual abuse, and many of whom grow up with substance-abuse problems: and MANY of whom incur penny-ante alcohol or soft-drug related convictions, in their early teens, when they are experimenting, and REBELLING against families and schools they see as not CARING about them, a whole hell of a lot.

The sad thing is, Tampa, in most of the states of the United States, a combination of poverty, mental-health issues (however mild and treatable), and one or two summary convictions on charges of soft-drug possession - are just about tantamount to a life-sentence, of PERMANENT alienation, and unemployability. Most American kids who fall into this hole, will NEVER be able to dig themselves out.

Because there is NO HELP AVAILABLE to them, to begin to heal the psychological wounds they have suffered - - - usually because of physical, and/or sexual abuse they suffered, as kids. They don't have enough money to FEED themselves - - - let alone, enough money ever to go to school, to better themselves. And, if they have a "record", they are FOREVER going to be relegated to low-paying, temporary jobs, that will keep them immured in poverty, for the REST of their LIVES.

And this is not a SMALL group of people, Tampa. It is a large, and GROWING number of Americans. Who are in total DESPAIR. People wonder why so many people are voting for TRUMP, and all his racism and hatred. . . well, this is his electoral base. And, though Trump is not the answer - SOMEONE (in the wealthiest nation on earth, in HISTORY) should be REACHING OUT to assist, some of these people.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/09/the-original-underclass/492731/

It seems like NOBODY has got an ounce of compassion, for these people - and this has GOT to change - otherwise, the United States will be faced with a tide of morbidity, mortality, and civic VIOLENCE, such as it has NEVER SEEN, IN ITS HISTORY.

And also, since it's SUNDAY (and I am obviously in "preaching" mode) I think WE have to take a little responsibility, for all this, too. Most of the models we appreciate and like, come into modeling (on Broke Straight Boys, and other sites) PRECISELY because they come from disadvantaged and traumatic backgrounds - - - and bear the scars of poverty, childhood abuse, addiction, mental health issues, or minor criminal convictions which prevent them from getting decent employment.

Let's face it - no truly straight boy, who is OK in life, and is well-supported by a functional family, is EVER going to wake up one day, and say, "HEY! I think doing gay porn, would really be quite a LARK - and I'd like to give it a try, JUST for FUN."

No, Tamps - you know it, and I know it - most of the models on Broke Straight Boys, and elsewhere, are DEEPLY HURTING BOYS. Now, some of us are deeply hurting people, too - for various reasons. But we have at least a little responsibility, and if we can help, we SHOULD - because most of the models we like, have not had the same advantages, or ordinary CARING, in life ~ that most of us, have had.

Tampa, this is why I have always argued (quite strenuously, too) - from my first days on the Broke Straight Boys board - that models are people, too. This is why I hate it, when people post notes, on public boards that models can see - - - criticizing models' LOOKS, or performance. And this is why I HATE IT, SO MUCH, when people say, about models - - - "When they signed UP for this job, they knew EXACTLY what they were getting into - - - and they should just suck it UP!" And this is why, I DON'T think people should be waxing wroth, with models, when some of them seek assistance from the fans who love them - or, pretend to love them.

I simply think, Tampa, that most of us, with strong, kind, caring, middle-class families; and good educations; and reasonable jobs. . . have NO IDEA what some of these models are GOING THROUGH. And, if we can't help some of them who ask for financial help, on various sites, with that kind of help - and that would really be IMPOSSIBLE, in ALL cases: because there are so MANY models, who need members' help - I think we should at least treat them with great TENDERNESS, and kindness.

And I am NO LIBERAL, either. As soft-hearted and -headed as this post may sound, to some: I DO believe in personal responsibility. I grew up on the farm. I fed (and cleaned up after) 800 hogs a day, for no pay. I left home when I was 16, to go to university, and paid the whole thing myself, through scholarships - otherwise, we never could have afforded it. I BELIEVE in personal responsibility, and HARD WORK.

I just think. . . it is simply a REALITY, that many of these models we enjoy, and appreciate, have gone through tougher times than most of us (except, perhaps, Louis) can ever POSSIBLY REALIZE. So. . . if some of them sometimes say untoward THINGS, or make importunate REQUESTS, on the Broke Straight Boys forum, or other social media. . . that we might consider a little "unusual", or even IMPOLITE, in OUR normal lives. . . I think: we should just remind ourselves of the terrible challenges many of our models are facing, and do our level-best to give them a PASS, and show them a little, compassion, sometimes.

Here endeth the lesson. . . but it IS SUNDAY, after all ;-)))

Your friend always, Tampa,
"A" XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO

 

[ertas23]

Ambi,

I agree with the lion's share of what you have "preached" in your expose - a considerably well-thought out analysis of the state of mind and psyche some of our models arrive with at the Broke Straight Boys studios. I do not believe that ALL of them do so. I've stated on some other threads here that my grandson has two friends who have done this - gay-for-pay on camera. Why? Because they could, they wanted to (rebellion - as they come from well-heeled, inclusive, caring families) and they actually have commented about the "easy cash" they earned for doing something that just took a "change of mental perception about what sex actually is". One of them told me you simply think about getting off - sex is sex so who cares with whom one has sex. Now, when it comes to "making love", he does that only with his girlfriend/fiancé and that is an entirely different act. He "gives himself to her and she to him" unlike just "fucking a hole and getting paid for it" as his filming provides. He cannot be the only guy who holds such a perspective.

As far as the dismal situation of many coming from broken homes, abusive situations, uncaring family and society, dependencies - be they chemical or alcohol or co-dependent relationships, being fiscally unaccountable for myriad reasons - yes, we as a U.S. society have lots to do to bring pride, determination, willingness to "step it up", drive and ambition as character traits of such individuals, we have to admit that this rich, powerful nation is that because we spend so much time trying to accumulate funds to match the next door neighbor that our primary family unit has disintegrated and there exists so little "proper" direction and setting of expectations that each generation seems more and more entitled and unwilling to strive for individual proud accomplishment and drive. But, all of those issues you raised declaring the U.S. has failed to recognize society's failure to provide stable guidance, treatment for mental or physical deficiencies, an education that results in one having a skillset for self-actualization, and supporting the notion that families are the basis of individual and social strength are serious detriments to our ever rising out of the cesspool we have created due to our judging individuals on their net worth and personal accomplishments.

So, let me restate that I agree with your assessment of the ills of the U.S. society and the fact that many of the guys who come to Broke Straight Boys to "make quick money" (or experiment, or just have sex on camera and get paid for something they'd be doing in their daily life for free) have "issues" that bring them to our screens. AND, 100% - I agree with you that there is not always a willingness to keep some thoughts about a model or scene to one's self if negativity is the only comment to be made. As Thumper's mother advised (and he shared with Bambi) - "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all." A golden rule in my book. But, I know that many state this forum is for honestly stating their minds regardless of how a model might perceive acceptance or rejection. The forum world is as tough as Middle School.

xoxoxoxo,

Tom

 

[johnny]

I just think it is different nowadays. Kids are different.There just not afraid like we might have been. On Broke Straight Boys most are gay anyway.
But even the straight kids don't have the hang ups we had. Easy money. And there not all fucked up and from terrible homes anymore.
Everyone has a camera today. And they film themselves. Look at the Cam Sites..Thousands...
In there homes. And they don't look poor. I just don't think they are as uptight. Look at All the people now that work out.
That are into there bodies. People want to show themselves off. Gay Straight I just think the times have changed.
If you got it flaunt it. And do it while your young.Kids are not dumb.You got Trump running for President of the United States...Shit anything go's today.

 

[tampa24]

​

Thank you for sharing this over here Ambi. I really do believe it could be one of your best posts ever. To someone walking in on this thread they might assume that you and I are in disagreement on the thrust of your post. Which of course is not the case. lol Oversimplifying a bit, the original conversation started over how we felt about the propriety of models asking for money or gifts on social media. There was give and take on that. The conversation also included people making money on the camming sites and asking for gifts in addition to money.

Here is a partial lead in to this particular conversation that preceded Ambi's post above.

********************************************************​

I do see where you're going with this Ambi. And truthfully I don't have as much of a problem with sites like F4F, C4 and CB. At least it is a voluntary transaction among consenting adults. I admit though that when I first saw the proliferation of gift lists and registries, in addition to already asking for cash tips...that it annoyed me and made me uncomfortable.

You bring up another point that I see as valid in certain respects. It comes down to the fact that not only is it not easy for certain models to get good mainstream jobs because of a lack of requisite skills or vocational training...many of them also have criminal records that will scare off any employers offering decent pay and benefits. For those who have messed up in their youth and have drug charges and other various small time criminal charges on their record, it makes it exceedingly difficult to find anything but part-time low wage work.

So even if drugs and a completely dysfunctional upbringing were their original problems and they succeeded in beating the drug habit...the criminal record may still seem insurmountable to them in trying to move forward in their lives. So simply telling models (who are still broke in spite of their earnings on any site) to go out and get a REAL job, is not often so easy or simple. Some of those who apply to do porn online (from a mindset of desperation), also have learning disabilities like dyslexia and can't really read or write. (Another strike against them in the job market.) Some of them are bipolar, have no access to the expensive and side-effect laden medications, and can act out in irrational ways at the drop of a hat. Employers offering good jobs don't like any of that. But what's a young guy to do when he has no family support and still has to eat, get healthcare and keep a roof over his head?

It takes a lot of guts, some big balls, courage, perseverance, and not just a tiny bit of Luck to dig oneself out of that kind of a hole in life. Obviously not all of them will make it.

 

[juanjo]

My experience as an attorney has been that if you come from a dysfunctional family you have some serious marks against you before you are even off the starting block. And if you are from a lower income family the stress caused by economic worries tend to lead to a lot more dysfunction in those families. I have dealt with a lot of street kids in San Francisco over the years and if it were not for the whole attorney-client privilege thing, I could tell stories which would make the hair on the back of your head stand on end. It is true that the 20 somethings tend to not attach nearly as much stigma to the gay/straight issue but that does not mean they are also a lot more willing to engage in gay porn for pay. Those are two separate issues.

 

[tampa24]

Here is a copy of my reply to Ambi on his amazing post above:

Tampa, this is why I have always argued (quite strenuously, too) - from my first days on the Broke Straight Boys board - that models are people, too. This is why I hate it, when people post notes, on public boards that models can see - - - criticizing models' LOOKS, or performance. And this is why I HATE IT, SO MUCH, when people say, about models - - - "When they signed UP for this job, they knew EXACTLY what they were getting into - - - and they should just suck it UP!" And this is why, I DON'T think people should be waxing wroth, with models, when some of them seek assistance from the fans who love them - or, pretend to love them.

On this point Ambi I freely admit to being guilty of having expressed those sentiments myself. In fact, almost verbatim. I felt justified in those sentiments with the particular models I referred to. And in fact, as much as it may disappoint you Ambi, I still stand by them. Thankfully I have taken that tack very sparingly over the years. But you are quite right that this is not a one-size-fits-all world. To stand behind this line of thinking as a blanket statement for ALL past and future porn models on any site out there, who either can't or won't agree to do every sexual act hoped for by the audience, is inherently unfair. None of us will know for certain the psychological history, sexual orientation issues, possible history of physical and/or sexual abuse, religious upbringing, family background, the mental maturity level at which they find themselves, (regardless of chronological age) or whatever other baggage these guys are working through. Since we can't know their individual circumstances for certain you're right that we should be giving the models the benefit of the doubt and cutting them some slack.

********************************************************​

Note: I clarified with Ambi that in my saying his words above were almost verbatim to my own, that I never said any model "should just suck it UP."

The main point being though that Ambi and I are actually very much in agreement on close to 100% of this discussion. Being Canadian and on the outside looking in, he takes a harsher view of the injustices of our healthcare system for example that we ourselves have already been worn down by and inured to. So even while the harshness of some of his critiques of our country may take some of us aback and perhaps lead to a temptation of defensiveness, I can't find much to disagree with him about on substance.

 

[tampa24]

Ambi,

I agree with the lion's share of what you have "preached" in your expose - a considerably well-thought out analysis of the state of mind and psyche some of our models arrive with at the Broke Straight Boys studios. I do not believe that ALL of them do so. I've stated on some other threads here that my grandson has two friends who have done this - gay-for-pay on camera. Why? Because they could, they wanted to (rebellion - as they come from well-heeled, inclusive, caring families) and they actually have commented about the "easy cash" they earned for doing something that just took a "change of mental perception about what sex actually is". One of them told me you simply think about getting off - sex is sex so who cares with whom one has sex. Now, when it comes to "making love", he does that only with his girlfriend/fiancé and that is an entirely different act. He "gives himself to her and she to him" unlike just "fucking a hole and getting paid for it" as his filming provides. He cannot be the only guy who holds such a perspective.

As far as the dismal situation of many coming from broken homes, abusive situations, uncaring family and society, dependencies - be they chemical or alcohol or co-dependent relationships, being fiscally unaccountable for myriad reasons - yes, we as a U.S. society have lots to do to bring pride, determination, willingness to "step it up", drive and ambition as character traits of such individuals, we have to admit that this rich, powerful nation is that because we spend so much time trying to accumulate funds to match the next door neighbor that our primary family unit has disintegrated and there exists so little "proper" direction and setting of expectations that each generation seems more and more entitled and unwilling to strive for individual proud accomplishment and drive. But, all of those issues you raised declaring the U.S. has failed to recognize society's failure to provide stable guidance, treatment for mental or physical deficiencies, an education that results in one having a skillset for self-actualization, and supporting the notion that families are the basis of individual and social strength are serious detriments to our ever rising out of the cesspool we have created due to our judging individuals on their net worth and personal accomplishments.

So, let me restate that I agree with your assessment of the ills of the U.S. society and the fact that many of the guys who come to Broke Straight Boys to "make quick money" (or experiment, or just have sex on camera and get paid for something they'd be doing in their daily life for free) have "issues" that bring them to our screens. AND, 100% - I agree with you that there is not always a willingness to keep some thoughts about a model or scene to one's self if negativity is the only comment to be made. As Thumper's mother advised (and he shared with Bambi) - "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all." A golden rule in my book. But, I know that many state this forum is for honestly stating their minds regardless of how a model might perceive acceptance or rejection. The forum world is as tough as Middle School.

xoxoxoxo,

Tom

A great post and contribution to this conversation Tom. Thank you!

P.S.

What post-graduate degree do you have?

 

[mikeyank]

This is not a new discussion and my feelings remain pretty much the same as I've always held on the topic of members of the forum commenting on the models. All of what Ambi, Tampa, Ertas and Juanjo have said are basically truisms in regard to why a young man may wind up on the futon, couch or the bed at the current studio in Atlanta. And no doubt many if not most have had hardships in life which lead them to decide to preform in gay porn to earn money to support themselves.

And I agree that it is prudent for us to be gentle in our criticisms of their performances knowing that they have access to the forum and there is no reason to intentionally hurt one of these young men's potentially fragile egos. However the reality of the situation is that this is porn and the basic purpose of their performance here is to sexually arouse the members who are paying to watch hot young guys turn them on. The best possible performance on this site would ideally "move" a viewer to a state of arousal that might culminate in an orgasm by the viewing consumer or to come as close to that conclusion as possible.

This is why this is a profession unlike most and when a model comes on the forum and asks us how he can improve his performance to drive up his ratings, I usually remain silent for a model can tweak some aspect of his performance, but when it comes to sexual arousal, basically either you have "it" or you don't and that is the sad reality for those who do not have "it". We have a wonderful search aspect on this board where among other things, we can search models by various attributes and values and one is "highest rated" and while there is no category of "lowest rated", we do have the ability to go through the pages to the end to see who has the lowest ratings and unfortunately many on the bottom end of that spectrum do not have "it" and no matter how hard they "work" to improve their ratings, they will not excel in this profession.

Therefore as kind and gentle as we may be in our critiques of scenes and models, the bottom line is that the ones who will be invited back again and again are those who receive high model ratings, scene ratings, and who receive the largest number of "hits" to their scenes, and that is the way it should be. Mark and Sha are great guys but at the end of the day this is a business just like the one I work for, and the store on your corner and the gas station and the factory in your town, and the owners or shareholders of all of them are looking to maintain and to increase profits and be successful and that's what this country is all about, free enterprise and capitalism.

When the forum first started I thought it was for us to give our honest evaluations of models and scenes and I was a lot harsher toward the one's who did nothing for me, but now that I know they can read our comments I've taken the attitude of saying nothing about the one's who do nothing for me, or to gently say that a model is not my type, but I try to be as real as possible and the reality is that some guys have it and some don't when it comes to porn and there is little that they can do to change that. And as one model once told us on the forum that it looks like he choose the wrong profession and would look for work in a different field and I will always admire his honesty and I sincerely hope he has found success. This is a cold business and I would never recommend it to anyone who I cared about as it usually ends badly for most who try it.

 

[mikeyank]

By the way, taste is obviously totally subjective and we can disagree from person to person as to who is actually hot, but the overall ratings from everyone who has joined the site over the years, and voted give a pretty good indication of the overall quality. After making my post I did go back to the last pages of the "highest rated" and I mostly agree that the models on pages 21, 22 and 23 have none that I enjoyed but when I got to page 20 I found a few that turned me on including Ben Cooper:

And Jim Johnson

But they were both one and doneers who seemed to have been straight and not willing to do much and that is probably part of why they turn me on, so we all have our individual things we like but again overall ratings do seem to weed out the haves from the have not's.

I've pontificated enough this morning and it is time for me to shut up and go to work. See you all later, as I lol

 

[ertas23]

A great post and contribution to this conversation Tom. Thank you!

P.S.

What post-graduate degree do you have?

Responding to Tampa who asked... Others need not waste one's time - Tampa, you need not either as I dither here and there...

Tampa -

I think it is pretty obvious I do not have a post-graduate degree! I speaketh too much too often and forget my mother's rule of KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid!). A U.S. Senator used to say to me, "Your breadth of knowledge on each topic we debate is as wide and voluminous as the Mighty Mississippi. However, you have tributary issues and so often you take us for a ride down your own Mississippi then you hit the North Platt River, the Missouri River, the Ohio River, the Kentucky River, the Tennessee River and at the confluence of each you veer off onto a similar or relative issue but you don't always bring us back to the Mississippi!". That was Ted Kennedy. I have tried and tried to master that lesson but don't so I blather on and hope I make sense. I draw from my experiences in life - be it teacher, professor (even without the proper degree I spent three summers teaching federal and state agencies how to bring their services online to simplify doing business with their constituencies - but as an "expert" in the field, not as a professor at Harvard's JFK School of Government).

When I was recruited from state government by a large Mpls law firm to direct its Government Services Division, I was told I would be made a partner after a) a set number of years of service; or, b) I became a "cash cow" for the firm's division I would lead. "B" won out after 11 months. However, the state legislature quietly introduced a germane amendment to a Revisor of Statutes "clean up language bill" and it sailed through with language that made a law degree a necessity for being a partner in a law firm. So, I took the LSAT and, being in D.C. so much, became a Georgetown Hoya. One semester I attended and that was that. I never wanted to practice law - I wanted to create sensible laws or repair those that were not. My "expertise" became Constitutional and Intellectual Properties Law. States had long copyrighted their Statutes. I argued they could not be copyrighted because they needed to be squarely in the public domain (on line) and they fought back. I and my team created what we called "Tools of Democracy" - ordinary issuances of governance that every citizen should have at their finger tips so they can live in certainty they are not violating law or could research laws/rules/ordinances that would allow them to garner a basic sense of expectations and requirements before acting erroneously. (Of course, for agencies that produce books - such as "The Birds of [name your state]" - would be copyrighted as those books are not necessary for common living and they produced revenue for the departments that created such books). We were granted "The Freedom of Information" award for those efforts.

Teaching - from middle to high school to university classes - gave me insight to societal conditions through careful observation of student attitudes and productivity or "just putting in time" students - those with drive and ambition to those who just wanted to put in the time and least effort to "get out". Lobbying taught me about brokering power and some very necessary negotiations and compromise practices that resulted in a 100% positive outcome for my clients. I learned the ins and outs of political power ambition (not my own as I was never one who "bought into" such arrogance) but that of the factions which DID (Pro-Life/Pro-Choice - so misnamed as all too often those who claimed to be "Pro-Life" were "save the baby at any cost" but were Pro-Death Penalty. How is that "Pro-Life"? I got many members in state legislatures and the Congress to restate the mantra "Pro-Choice" or "Anti-Choice" because since Roe v Wade it's been that issue - does a woman have the right to decide whether or not to carry a pregnancy to term. Period. But for those who are driven by seeing every zygote or fetus be brought to term I would argue "Then you better be ready to put your money where your mouth is!" because that woman may not have the means (fiscally, physically, or mentally) to take on another child. So, if the federal standard is abortion becomes outlawed, the federal government had best be ready to come to the plate and pay the costs of raising said child/children to the point of self-actualization or shut the fuck up.

Alright - there I go. Welcome to Tom's world of tributaries. But, I have well researched and scrutinized opinions about almost every issue that can lead to controversy and I have never been afraid (or sensible enough) to not confront or defend myself when confronted. When I could not be dissuaded by a Governor of MN who wanted to do yet another thing he wanted to do but I once again told him he could not do he told me, "Tom, I don't think I can continue this relationship." to which I replied, "Oh, does that mean I have to give back the ring?" (in my best Gaga Gabor voice)! I asked him if I should return to my office and clear it out. He begged me to stay to help create his next session's legislative agenda! B.S. I packed and left. After telling the story to the Finance Chair of the Senate and saying I was going to whistle blow on that Governor, I was advised against it. Instead, the Senate hired me - at an almost outlandish rate of pay for five months of session, to be an advisor against his agenda and help bring him down. At the first Finance Committee meeting with the Gov and his staff to go over his plans and wishes, they had to "delay the meeting for 10 minutes" because they had a contract member of staff who was running late. When I walked through the doors, the Governor just put his hand over his mouth and said, "Oh, shit!" He was done in.

That man was just like Donald Trump and Richard Nixon regarding perception of Executive Privilege and Authority. None of them could or would be bound by legal limitations of their perceived power.

I'm sorry, Tampa - I've gone off again. Now I will be quiet.

Oh, I do have the old style Social Sciences BS Degree that based on my opting in for "major" degrees in each (232 credits instead of 182) so have degrees in Anthropology, Archaeology, Economics (Macro, Micro & Statistics), Geography (which I updated to human & interrogative), History (4 areas), Political Science (Public Administration and Policy), Psychology, and Sociology. Plus, I hold a BA in English (with a teaching license for literature, reading and writing - all of which were updated through continuing education courses while I taught). After I enrolled in a Master's Program for English, after reviewing the two year commitment syllabi I determined it was just way more than I wanted to do as a "short timer" returning to the teaching world after retiring from government. Lazy, I guess.

Now I'm just one of the "Every Day Is Saturday" people who can just sit back and observe and spout off. While I do so with earnest credibility (I hope) I could just sit back and watch the world go by. But that option is just not one I can even believe is one to be had.

So now, in my best Paul Harvey voice I say, "And now you have the rest of the story.". (Or a big part of it...)

 

[johnny]

Kinda make one feel embarrassed saying.. I graduated Beauty School..lol

 

[ertas23]

Kinda make one feel embarrassed saying.. I graduated Beauty School..lol

If that is a response to what I posted then you come here so I can kick your ass! Oh, but then I'd feel bad and have to make it feel better. So now I sound like a perv.

Once again, Johnny - what I did in school I did to be "all that I can be" - the family "motto". There is nothing special about me - but I know how to blabber.

Now you - you get right to the point and right from the heart in posting your thoughts and reactions. And, yours are one of my very favorite posters in the world! I know you provide your clients respect, a good ear, a good story, good advice, build their self-esteem, make them look incredible with what I expect is pure artistry through your craft and they walk out feeling like a million bucks.

Which one of us should feel a sound and strong sense of accomplishment for services to humanity? Of the two of us, that'd be you!



xoxoxoxoxo,

T.

 

[johnny]

If that is a response to what I posted then you come here so I can kick your ass! Oh, but then I'd feel bad and have to make it feel better. So now I sound like a perv.

Once again, Johnny - what I did in school I did to be "all that I can be" - the family "motto". There is nothing special about me - but I know how to blabber.

Now you - you get right to the point and right from the heart in posting your thoughts and reactions. And, yours are one of my very favorite posters in the world! I know you provide your clients respect, a good ear, a good story, good advice, build their self-esteem, make them look incredible with what I expect is pure artistry through your craft and they walk out feeling like a million bucks.

Which one of us should feel a sound and strong sense of accomplishment for services to humanity? Of the two of us, that'd be you!



xoxoxoxoxo,

T.

Ah. Your so good ertas.Thanks. I'd kiss you but I just washed my hair. lol I really did.xoxoxo

 

[ertas23]

Ah. Your so good ertas.Thanks. I'd kiss you but I just washed my hair. lol I really did.xoxoxo

That's OK, Johnny. Your morning shower ritual includes washing your hair. Mine includes shaving my head silky smooth bald!

If you ever visit - I keep Aveda products in the "just in case" drawer. (After all, Horst Rechelbacher - may he RIP - was a personal friend of mine who tried to "save" me from my grandfather-induced male pattern baldness "gift". Been shaving my head since I was 39 years old and came out of the closet cuz he told me I have a nicely shaped head and shaving it would restore any confidence I might lose in a gay world where hair is so valued (and thin and balding is not so). He shaved me first time and I have been doing so since that day!)

 

[tampa24]

Tampa -

I think it is pretty obvious I do not have a post-graduate degree! I speaketh too much too often and forget my mother's rule of KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid!). A U.S. Senator used to say to me, "Your breadth of knowledge on each topic we debate is as wide and voluminous as the Mighty Mississippi. However, you have tributary issues and so often you take us for a ride down your own Mississippi then you hit the North Platt River, the Missouri River, the Ohio River, the Kentucky River, the Tennessee River and at the confluence of each you veer off onto a similar or relative issue but you don't always bring us back to the Mississippi!". That was Ted Kennedy. I have tried and tried to master that lesson but don't so I blather on and hope I make sense. I draw from my experiences in life - be it teacher, professor (even without the proper degree I spent three summers teaching federal and state agencies how to bring their services online to simplify doing business with their constituencies - but as an "expert" in the field, not as a professor at Harvard's JFK School of Government).

Alright - there I go. Welcome to Tom's world of tributaries. But, I have well researched and scrutinized opinions about almost every issue that can lead to controversy and I have never been afraid (or sensible enough) to not confront or defend myself when confronted. When I could not be dissuaded by a Governor of MN who wanted to do yet another thing he wanted to do but I once again told him he could not do he told me, "Tom, I don't think I can continue this relationship." to which I replied, "Oh, does that mean I have to give back the ring?" (in my best Gaga Gabor voice)! I asked him if I should return to my office and clear it out. He begged me to stay to help create his next session's legislative agenda! B.S. I packed and left. After telling the story to the Finance Chair of the Senate and saying I was going to whistle blow on that Governor, I was advised against it. Instead, the Senate hired me - at an almost outlandish rate of pay for five months of session, to be an advisor against his agenda and help bring him down. At the first Finance Committee meeting with the Gov and his staff to go over his plans and wishes, they had to "delay the meeting for 10 minutes" because they had a contract member of staff who was running late. When I walked through the doors, the Governor just put his hand over his mouth and said, "Oh, shit!" He was done in.

That man was just like Donald Trump and Richard Nixon regarding perception of Executive Privilege and Authority. None of them could or would be bound by legal limitations of their perceived power.

Oh, I do have the old style Social Sciences BS Degree that based on my opting in for "major" degrees in each (232 credits instead of 182) so have degrees in Anthropology, Archaeology, Economics (Macro, Micro & Statistics), Geography (which I updated to human & interrogative), History (4 areas), Political Science (Public Administration and Policy), Psychology, and Sociology. Plus, I hold a BA in English (with a teaching license for literature, reading and writing - all of which were updated through continuing education courses while I taught). After I enrolled in a Master's Program for English, after reviewing the two year commitment syllabi I determined it was just way more than I wanted to do as a "short timer" returning to the teaching world after retiring from government. Lazy, I guess.

Ertas, LOL


I have thoroughly enjoyed that white water rafting ride. It took me to the four corners of who knows where. And I never quite knew which subject was fair game in the next moment. But sometimes the thrill of the unknown can be a very good thing.

The level of vocabulary you use is indicative of someone who has a post-graduate education. So what I hear you saying is that rather than that, it comes from all the O.J.T. Having been a teacher and then having read multiple and voluminous legal texts, including bills for consideration of becoming law...where multi-syllable words, lofty prose and Latin phrases liberally sprinkled in can often hide nefarious purposes and intent...I imagine you need a keen mind to quickly sort out the innocuous language, which for the most part can be ignored...from the most substantive that needs your fullest attention. As anyone voting on referendum ballots can attest to, it seems that many a law are purposely written so as to try to hide the true intent, purposes and actual beneficiaries of said law from the layperson. haha

(Sorry for being longwinded at times. But one of the quirks of my writing style is that run-on sentences are my specialty. lol)

To sidetrack to one of your meandering tributaries, were you meaning to say Lady Gaga, Eva Gabor or Zsa Zsa Gabor? haha

I really enjoyed your sad tale of ill-fated and unrequited love with a certain MN governor. If he had just bought you more flowers and chocolates... and most importantly...paid more attention to Your needs...maybe you wouldn't have had to turn on him. Divorce court's a bitch. LOL

Oh, I do have the old style Social Sciences BS Degree that based on my opting in for "major" degrees in each (232 credits instead of 182) so have degrees in Anthropology, Archaeology, Economics (Macro, Micro & Statistics), Geography (which I updated to human & interrogative), History (4 areas), Political Science (Public Administration and Policy), Psychology, and Sociology. Plus, I hold a BA in English (with a teaching license for literature, reading and writing - all of which were updated through continuing education courses while I taught). After I enrolled in a Master's Program for English, after reviewing the two year commitment syllabi I determined it was just way more than I wanted to do as a "short timer" returning to the teaching world after retiring from government.

Nah... That doesn't sound like a very solid educational background at all. hahaha

In keeping with the eclectic "anything goes" subject of this post, I'll share one of my favorite Barney Frank quotes:

"A conservative's concern for the wellbeing of his fellow citizen begins at conception.........and ends at birth." LOL

 

[peterh6308]

Good reading guys...

 

[tampa24]

I rediscovered this thread today and found it quite thrilling to re-read. I honestly hadn't remembered much of it at all.

Maybe others would want to join into what is still a timely and relevant conversation?

 

[mikeyank]

Kinda make one feel embarrassed saying.. I graduated Beauty School..lol

Ha Ha Johnny was the best! I miss my San Francisco buddy!

 

[br6205]

Another reminder of what I missed.