Ambivalent
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- Jul 15, 2009
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Hmmm. . . .
Perhaps I am just in a terribly pessimistic mood this weekend, but, I have an apprehension, which I wonder if any other older members, share. . . .???
When I was young, though outright persecution of gay people had mostly ended in Canada - there was still a rather embarrassed silence, in polite society, about such things. And there was a lingering sense, in the gay community, that we were still "outsiders", and "outcasts": and this fostered a certain sense of solidarity.
I saw this at work when I visited Eastern Europe, a number of years ago. At the "Club Angel", on a little cobbled sidestreet, in Tallinn, gay people thronged together - young and old, thin and fat, gay men and lesbians (and their straight friends, too), beautiful people and not-so-beautiful people: all hugging and kissing and dancing and laughing, and having FUN. . . aware that their congregating in such fashion was legal, but only recently, and barely, so. . . and caring for one another in a spirit of MUTUAL PROTECTION.
It's been a long time since any gay club in North America has been like that, I think. The advance of human liberty has been considerable, over the last several decades - and that's a good thing. Gay people are now welcome to hold hands and KISS, in any public place they like. Gay people can marry, and adopt and raise children - which is, of course, wonderful.
But, I think something has been lost. The old spirit of solidarity and community feeling - borne of facing a common adversary, and an almost universal hostility - has gone. Now, being gay is "normal" - which is good. BUT - when gay people gather, there isn't the same sort of generosity and fellow-feeling as there used to be, I'd say. Gay life in North America is now (I think) like regular, ordinary life.
It seems to me that young gay men in North American clubs today, are very much like their young straight counterparts - like fratboys - with little interest in or respect for elders whom (in previous generations) they might have accounted mentors. Instead, they are just on the make (always) for the cutest, youngest, prettiest, and fastest hookup they can get. And have no time for even polite or perfunctory conversation. And the older guys are kind of cynical, lost, and abandoned, in clubs - drinking and watching the shows on-stage, but expecting nothing: not even a bright sliver of conversation: unless, of course, they pay for it.
What bothers me even more is, that, when I was in my teens, gay men were the great guardians and cognoscenti of great literature and classical music (especially opera), and sculpture and painting, and all the fine and exquisite things in life. I fear that that great era is drawing to a close. Yes, I have some friends in France - including a couple of professors at the Sorbonne - for whom such things are still CRUCIAL: but they are getting on. (Mostly in their 70's and 80's.) *And it might amuse Jon to know that, while I am dating a man 20 years younger than I am, most of my personal FRIENDS, in real life (at least the gay ones) are typically 20 years OLDER than I am.* ;-)
It seems to me that many older gay men in North America have lost interest in the fine arts; and that many of the younger ones never had any interest in them, ab initio. Perhaps I am being elitist, cruel, or unfair - - - but this is the way it seems, to me. And it also seems to me that, the "gay community" (even the well-educated part of it), is quickly losing its historic role, as a repository of knowledge about, and appreciation for, BEAUTY in all the arts, and in life, generally. And. . . worst of all . . . is CEASING to BE a community, at all - but is gradually devolving into a rag-tag mass of self-absorbed individuals, who care about nothing beautiful, beyond the next, opportune, tryst.
Perhaps I am being too pessimistic, about all this? Certainly, this board, and the kind and lovely people I've met here, give me hope. But I do wonder whether, with the advent of real liberation, gay men have lost SOMETHING CRUCIAL - particularly, their formerly treasured cultural legacy, and. . . more significantly. . . their compassion and care, for one ANOTHER.
"A".
"Lascia ch'io pianga" ~ Philippe Jaroussky. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpZ5MskYq7A
![Antinous 001.jpg Antinous 001.jpg](https://discussions.brokestraightboys.com/data/attachments/10/10487-c48c5c72176fca766fc5c1016902da5f.jpg)
Perhaps I am just in a terribly pessimistic mood this weekend, but, I have an apprehension, which I wonder if any other older members, share. . . .???
When I was young, though outright persecution of gay people had mostly ended in Canada - there was still a rather embarrassed silence, in polite society, about such things. And there was a lingering sense, in the gay community, that we were still "outsiders", and "outcasts": and this fostered a certain sense of solidarity.
I saw this at work when I visited Eastern Europe, a number of years ago. At the "Club Angel", on a little cobbled sidestreet, in Tallinn, gay people thronged together - young and old, thin and fat, gay men and lesbians (and their straight friends, too), beautiful people and not-so-beautiful people: all hugging and kissing and dancing and laughing, and having FUN. . . aware that their congregating in such fashion was legal, but only recently, and barely, so. . . and caring for one another in a spirit of MUTUAL PROTECTION.
It's been a long time since any gay club in North America has been like that, I think. The advance of human liberty has been considerable, over the last several decades - and that's a good thing. Gay people are now welcome to hold hands and KISS, in any public place they like. Gay people can marry, and adopt and raise children - which is, of course, wonderful.
But, I think something has been lost. The old spirit of solidarity and community feeling - borne of facing a common adversary, and an almost universal hostility - has gone. Now, being gay is "normal" - which is good. BUT - when gay people gather, there isn't the same sort of generosity and fellow-feeling as there used to be, I'd say. Gay life in North America is now (I think) like regular, ordinary life.
It seems to me that young gay men in North American clubs today, are very much like their young straight counterparts - like fratboys - with little interest in or respect for elders whom (in previous generations) they might have accounted mentors. Instead, they are just on the make (always) for the cutest, youngest, prettiest, and fastest hookup they can get. And have no time for even polite or perfunctory conversation. And the older guys are kind of cynical, lost, and abandoned, in clubs - drinking and watching the shows on-stage, but expecting nothing: not even a bright sliver of conversation: unless, of course, they pay for it.
What bothers me even more is, that, when I was in my teens, gay men were the great guardians and cognoscenti of great literature and classical music (especially opera), and sculpture and painting, and all the fine and exquisite things in life. I fear that that great era is drawing to a close. Yes, I have some friends in France - including a couple of professors at the Sorbonne - for whom such things are still CRUCIAL: but they are getting on. (Mostly in their 70's and 80's.) *And it might amuse Jon to know that, while I am dating a man 20 years younger than I am, most of my personal FRIENDS, in real life (at least the gay ones) are typically 20 years OLDER than I am.* ;-)
It seems to me that many older gay men in North America have lost interest in the fine arts; and that many of the younger ones never had any interest in them, ab initio. Perhaps I am being elitist, cruel, or unfair - - - but this is the way it seems, to me. And it also seems to me that, the "gay community" (even the well-educated part of it), is quickly losing its historic role, as a repository of knowledge about, and appreciation for, BEAUTY in all the arts, and in life, generally. And. . . worst of all . . . is CEASING to BE a community, at all - but is gradually devolving into a rag-tag mass of self-absorbed individuals, who care about nothing beautiful, beyond the next, opportune, tryst.
Perhaps I am being too pessimistic, about all this? Certainly, this board, and the kind and lovely people I've met here, give me hope. But I do wonder whether, with the advent of real liberation, gay men have lost SOMETHING CRUCIAL - particularly, their formerly treasured cultural legacy, and. . . more significantly. . . their compassion and care, for one ANOTHER.
"A".
"Lascia ch'io pianga" ~ Philippe Jaroussky. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpZ5MskYq7A
![Antinous 001.jpg Antinous 001.jpg](https://discussions.brokestraightboys.com/data/attachments/10/10487-c48c5c72176fca766fc5c1016902da5f.jpg)